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[GraveHorizon]

Oculus Developer Forums: "Somebody please BAN this joker and cancel his order."

reddit: US DK2 eBay reseller caught selling his place in line for $5000. Oculus Dev community asks for proof of order, he gives it, Cyberreality cancels the order.

Ladies and Gents,

As stated in the forum post on the Official Oculus Forums, our investigations are much more than screenshots, order numbers, or time stamps. We only take action on the "sure things" that we've proven through hard evidence. After canceling and refunding the order, within minutes, the eBay auction was taken down. We've discussed the matter with the person in question and you can consider this specific matter closed.

We appreciate the support of the community and are looking forward to getting DK2 out the door. Thanks for your amazing patience!

you can now preorder your DK2 on ebay.

techcrunch: Oculus Spots People Selling Rift Pre-Orders, Cancels Their Shipments

Apparently they're cracking down on pre-order reselling. I hope nobody here is currently attempting to publicly resell their DK2.

Whatever your plans for the devk kit 2, do you think trying to resell it is wrong? Or is selling his place in line the bad part to you?

EDIT: Palmer Luckey chimed in on the reseller issue.

We can't afford to give customers the benefit of the doubt when we have to cancel literally thousands of orders from resellers and scalpers each week. If we left it alone, almost all of our orders would go to people who then control the supply themselves, allowing them to sell at wildly inflated prices.

For a similar example, see live concert tickets.

 

[Vuze]

Good on them for doing this. I still can't imagine how massive reselling must've been in China so that they banned the whole country.

I think there is nothing wrong with selling your DK1/2 after you bought it and decided you don't like it or whatever after trying but putting up a pre-release offer for it or selling your place in line is just unethical.

 

[Card Boy]

Meeru?

 

[Riposte]

I respect that Motoko avatar.

 

[michaelius]

So on what basis was it canceled ?

 

[Zeyphersan]

Selling the place in line seems more wrong than selling the kit itself when the guy actually has it in his possession. Don't ask me why, just a gut feeling.

 

[Caayn]

One hand I support that companies are trying to cut-down the people who only buy with the intent to sell it with profit, like concert tickets, consoles on day one, etc. etc.

On the other hand I disagree with Oculus, a person should be able to sell his/her possessions.

 

[NumberThree]

So on what basis was it canceled ?

On the basis of the company reserving their right to cancel any order.

 

[Amagon]

Unless there is contract that was agreed upon about selling a dev kit or pre-ordering spot, sounds like bullshit to me.

 

[hodayathink]

One hand I support that companies are trying to cut-down the people who only buy with the intent to sell it with profit, like concert tickets, consoles on day one, etc. etc.

On the other hand I disagree with Oculus, a person should be able to sell his/her possessions.

Except that it isn't in his possesion yet. He was selling the opportunity to purchase the item for a, what, 10x markup?

 

[wwm0nkey]

Good now hopefully a few devs get their kits earlier due to the reseller cancelations

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

Meeru?

heh, wonder how many people are going to remember that one

 

[Sami+]

Had he paid yet?

Edit - Ah, reread OP. If he got refunded then I don't really feel strongly about this either way.

 

[Linkup]

I'm going to make it a thing to sell my place in line whether it's at the grocery store, Disneyland, or the highway. Probably happens more often than I realize.

There is a limited supply of dev kits that lots of devs want to get their hands on. On the first few batches I think it helps anyone who wanted to start some kind of development effort right now and be ready for CV1 as I assume they will need all the time they can get, that goes double for any of the bigger development teams out their. If they need 50 DK2 it's better they have them this month rather than 3-5 months from now. That will certainly benefit those of us waiting for the first consumer versions of Oculus Rift.

Who am I kidding, mostly gamers are buying one.

 

[GraveHorizon]

Palmer Luckey chimed in on the reseller issue. (Adding to the OP.)

We can't afford to give customers the benefit of the doubt when we have to cancel literally thousands of orders from resellers and scalpers each week. If we left it alone, almost all of our orders would go to people who then control the supply themselves, allowing them to sell at wildly inflated prices.

For a similar example, see live concert tickets.

Definitely a shady practice if so many people are doing it.

 

[twdnewh_k]

Wow is it really worth anywhere near that much?

 

[Spades]

On the other hand I disagree with Oculus, a person should be able to sell his/her possessions.

I tend to agree. If I buy something (regardless of if he has received the goods yet or not, he paid for it already) then it should be mine to sell on as I please. If someone is willing to pay 10x the price, then that isn't my fault. It's simple supply and demand.

 

[Durante]

I'm happy they are cracking down on this hard. The goal here is to get dev kits to developers as quickly as possible, not line the pockets of resellers.

 

[ramparter]

On the basis of the company reserving their right to cancel any order.

10/10

Great move anyway.

 

[bodyboarder]

I'm happy they are cracking down on this hard. The goal here is to get dev kits to developers as quickly as possible, not line the pockets of resellers.

Then why not just give developers priority.

 

[Lurch666]

Unless there is contract that was agreed upon about selling a dev kit or pre-ordering spot, sounds like bullshit to me.

dev kits are sold with under agreement that they aren't resold so I assume that cover reselling an early order place.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

I'm happy they are cracking down on this hard. The goal here is to get dev kits to developers as quickly as possible, not line the pockets of resellers.

then why not directly sell to developers?

 

[shira]

heh, wonder how many people are going to remember that one

Dota gaf will not let anyone forget

 

[Donnie]

I tend to agree. If I buy something (regardless of if he has received the goods yet or not, he paid for it already) then it should be mine to sell on as I please. If someone is willing to pay 10x the price, then that isn't my fault. It's simple supply and demand.

He'd only paid a $50 deposit, until its all paid and shipped its not his property. I agree that once the item is in someone's possession they should then be allowed to sell for whatever someone will pay. But putting it up for sale before its even been sent out by Oculus just shows that he has no interest in the Rift and is purely a scalper. Oculus have no reason to want to sell a development kit to someone like that and its completely within their rights to decide who they want to sell to.

 

[Spookie]

Meeru?

I got that reference for once.

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Good.
I absolutely hate scalpers.

 

[The Spoony Hou]

That's awesome. Scalpers don't deserve shit.

 

[Lord Phol]

He'd only paid a $50 deposit, until its all paid and shipped its not his property. I agree that once the item is in someone's possession they should then be allowed to sell for whatever someone will pay. But putting it up for sale before its even been sent out by Oculus just shows that he has no interest in the Rift and is purely a scalper. Oculus have no reason to want to sell a development kit to someone like that and its completely within their rights to decide who they want to sell to.

This post exactly.

 

[dragonlife]

Meeru?

That's what came to mind.

 

[Seanspeed]

I tend to agree. If I buy something (regardless of if he has received the goods yet or not, he paid for it already) then it should be mine to sell on as I please. If someone is willing to pay 10x the price, then that isn't my fault. It's simple supply and demand.

These people can still buy one. They'll just have to wait a bit.

But price gouging/scalping is illegal for a reason. Its a nasty practice and I'm shocked that anybody would defend it.

 

[LonelyGreyWolf]

Apparently they're cracking down on pre-order reselling. I hope nobody here is currently attempting to publicly resell their DK2.

Whatever your plans for the devk kit 2, do you think trying to resell it is wrong? Or is selling his place in line the bad part to you?

This is about reselling something for a higher price than you bought it at just because you got a pre-order in first, right? If so, then yeah, reselling is a really shitty thing.

 

[Widge]

These people can still buy one. They'll just have to wait a bit.

But price gouging/scalping is illegal for a reason. Its a nasty practice and I'm shocked that anybody would defend it.

Yeah, it's becoming more and more prevalent thanks to the internet reducing commerce barriers. You get it with vinyl, people buying up all the copies of limited release music to then stick on Discogs at massively increased prices.

There is fair re-selling, then there is looking to exploit the market. Would people argue against rules put in place to stop cartels operating? These guys have all the supply, surely we should respond to the monetary cost of demand.

 

[E-Cat]

Hahaha, they sure showed him.

 

[Daedardus]

then why not directly sell to developers?

Because there are more developers than those working in big-name studios? Indies are also interested in the Rift, and they need an option to test it out while avoiding too much paper work.

 

[Ban Puncher]

 

[ScriptedReality]

yeah i can see why they would cancel but i think im just desensitized when it comes to scalpers. See them all the time. I kinda expect it.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Nothing makes me happier than seeing scalpers put in their place.

 

[KojiKnight]

A few key points to note here...

OR is going to be very limited in supply.

OR as a high end tech gadget is going to be high in demand.

Scalpers are GOING to happen, but I'm glad they are making moves to stop the worst of it. There is no reason why legitimate people should suffer inflated prices because someone wants to turn a quick profit off of a vulnerable market.

 

[runnin_blue]

A few key points to note here...

OR is going to be very limited in supply.

OR as a high end tech gadget is going to be high in demand.

Scalpers are GOING to happen, but I'm glad they are making moves to stop the worst of it. There is no reason why legitimate people should suffer inflated prices because someone wants to turn a quick profit off of a vulnerable market.

I am not defending scalpers and I am GLAD that they caught this guy early, but at the same time, if someone is stupid enough to pay $5000 for it, well...whose fault is that really?

 

[neoemonk]

It's like the NFL draft. He traded draft positions for cash considerations.

 

[In Service]

This is a good thing.

 

[Durante]

then why not directly sell to developers?

That's what they are doing?

 

[Faith]

Cyberreality for president.

 

[kinggroin]

I'm indifferent.

Money refunded. There we are.

 

[BladeSinner]

That's what they are doing?

Not really...they are making it publicly available, to devs and non devs alike...they are just by their press releases and media, heavily discouraging non devs from buying it. If you want one, you can go pre-order and buy it right now.

FYI, huge fan of yours!

 

[kinggroin]

I am not defending scalpers and I am GLAD that they caught this guy early, but at the same time, if someone is stupid enough to pay $5000 for it, well...whose fault is that really?

I generally agree. Heck, I've resold day one consoles at a marked up price and sleep fine that same night.

Thing is, in my case the manufacturer already sold and shipped the product to a retailer who will for the most part, sell it at the msrp or lower even. This means the market for the product isn't skewed or distorted while stock is in short supply.

Everyone is given a fair chance during launch week via the retailer. If someone can't wait for retailer resupply then they reserve the right to spend a lot more money and buy via scalpers. Multiple scalpers Btw, which in and of itself will regulate the inflated price too.



In the case of Oculus however, its one reseller taking advantage of the low stock from a very small company so options to buy are drastically limited and prices are drastically increased. This IMO creates an unfair distortion for the product and takes the fate of its success early on out of the hands of oculus and in the hands of this eBay reseller. Not to mention that the product wasn't delivered yet anyway.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

Rightly so, IMHO.

 

[LiK]

Haha, pretty amusing.

 

[Zaph]

Not really...they are making it publicly available, to devs and non devs alike...they are just by their press releases and media, heavily discouraging non devs from buying it. If you want one, you can go pre-order and buy it right now.

How could they do any meaningful differentiation without screwing over a lot of small devs?

In the past console makers did things like charge 5/6 figures for the dev kit, request company history, view publisher deals, hand deliver kits etc. But none of those methods would work for the Rift, they're just too outdated - development has changed. One guy with no money could single-handedly develop the Next Big Thing.

 

[BladeSinner]

How could they do any meaningful differentiation without screwing over a lot of small devs?

In the past console makers did things like charge 5/6 figures for the dev kit, request company history, view publisher deals, hand deliver kits etc. But none of those methods would work for the Rift, they're just too outdated - development has changed. One guy with no money could single-handedly develop the Next Big Thing.

I absolutely agree with you...I don't think they are doing anything wrong here...but leaving it as open as they have (which is awesome in my opinion), definitely leaves them open to these types of shenanigans. Really, the best thing they could have done to avoid these types of situations was try to ensure that supply meets or is greater than demand, which I know is also an uphill battle for them...