In sales, I agree with you. In power, Emily did say that we can't exactly use numbers to measure the potential of the NX Platform (or the NX Console in this particular instance) due to the architecture being different than the competition (likely ARM for the NX Platform compared to x86 for the PS4 & XB1).
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Emily Rogers: NX Not Using x86 Architecture - Won't Blow Away Current Gen Consoles
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Milly Osworth
Member
Thats all damage control talk really. We both know Sony and MS are going to marketing blitz the upgraded versions. That leaves Nintendo on outdated gear once again.
I feel like NX is going to be a very Iwata era device.
Skittzo0413
Member
What I'm getting at is that the bolded will likely cause a lot of problems in the industry. We saw how many developers went under during the HD transition, and now if every game has to target so many power levels, that can only cause more developers to drop out.
What KingSnake is getting at is that if you are forcing developers to target many different power levels, especially if some levels are very far away from others, then the work/time/budget of these games will go way up, causing a lot of problems for developers. If, on the other hand, MS says developers can release a game just on Scorpio, it will likely be a much better looking and playing game, and will not cause massive headaches during development.
Fairly agreed, yes. Though the handheld revisions have never been about "iteration" but simply just doing as you noted, introducing an EoL revision with improvements across the board (ergonomics, features, screen, etc) while also getting some whales. The Neo exist, seemingly, because it was cheaper to their bottomline than a slim would have been and improves on their VR which, frankly, I think is caught between Google and Vive on two different ends.
Scorpio feels like an outright new generation for MS (the Slim being a parity revision for the X1) with top of the line hardware under the hood, even if its not an eight to ten fold increase in power. It also lets them dump the X1's major crippling elements. Meanwhile Sony is going to be stuck with the Jaguars for a few years more because of the Neo revision. This is why I think that MS's plans were not what Sony expected.
I'm famous!
Or devices. Either way, the first wave of NX hardware is setting the foundation for Nintendo's hardware going forward. It makes sense that Iwata's last major contribution to Nintendo will set the groundwork for all future Nintendo consoles & handhelds.
You don't sell a powerhouse by showing footage at 900p30fps. Games might still work on Xbone, but I can bet Microsoft won't push any kind of precondition on those versions if the Scorpio is what is rumored to be. It would be counterproductive. Remember, Neo isn't supposed to get games running on high or ultra if they can't run on PS4 and that's damn restrictive.
wonderful103
Member
They will be marketing them to enthusiasts. Base models will remain the focus for the rest
Developers are already doing this for pc. I can use every single ounce of my 980's juice playing games from today or games from years ago due to scaling. Ms and Sony are not giving up their baseline models (which have sold many millions) just to save developers an extra round of cert.
Developers (first and third party alike) are already showing high end pc versions of their games with controllers plugged in (most of the time) that are later vilified as downgraded console versions when actual footage comes out.
Graphics Horse
Member
Didn't she say something along those lines too?
Bots are better than you
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Just as you are jumping to conclusion that everything sub PS4K/Scorpio is going to be obsolete, and that the hardware updates are going to sell gangbusters.
Since all this hardware update, iterative console stuff is completely new and changing the console market at the very core, it's impossible to say how things play out, just as it's impossible to say how powerful/weak NX might be, even if we would have some legit numbers on paper. You can't compare different architectures simply by numbers on paper.
We would need a dev with a devkit of NX and knowlegde/access to devkits of the other consoles to actually give some sane comparisons. And that dev also needs to like to live dangerously.
IDK. That would mean that either all of her sources are giving conflicting info, or none of them speak English. We should note, however, that she said raw power, rather than specs. I'd think that if someone said that to her they'd be talking about actual performance.
We already pretty much know that the CPU is faster than Xbone's and that porting isn't super hard,so you don't have to worry about something like this happening. Gekko is finally dead.
This is also what Emily said. I think it's fine if it's cheap, there will be a market for it. The only issue with it is that it might not be a good start for an iterative series, but depends really on the concept.
Now get a 750ti and see if you still hold the same opinion. Because this is what we're talking about. Sony is not giving up on their baseline model, but they cripple Neo because of that. MS doesn't have the same incentives as Sony to be this strict.
If it bombs it's not going to be the groundwork for anything.
They could easily just release the next wave of NX hardware & move on if Nintendo's really going for the iterative iOS approach. Plus the handheld's probably gonna pull in decent numbers.
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I'd say a cheaper base system (along with cheap update solutions) is way better to start/join iterative systems.
My main problem with PS4K/Scorpio is that the freaking things probably match or exceed the launch price of their vanilla versions, 2 to 3 years into the generation, and that is nuts. And i say this as an owner of all current gen systems and handhelds (aka one with too much money and spending it on games).
A cheaper base price and moderately priced update solutions are certainly easing my gripes with this stuff.
You have to note that that's her uninformed assumption. She thinks that different CPU architecture automatically makes it extremely debatable where they stand. She completely wrong, and all that we'd need to know is exactly what CPU it is, the clock speed, and the number of cores. She thinks that it's another Xenon vs Cell debacle.
The issue with a cheap start is that the next iteration can't go too much above if you want to keep the principle that at any time 2 iterations play the same games (to somehow match a normal console cycle). This might be solved if that SCD patent can really be put in practice.
Well, if it's around Xbone in terms of power then a 2019 iteration could match Scorpio.
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Obviously, the SCD solution is what i have in mind. They can raise the base price of the next "real" system, but they need to keep the price of the SCDs in check.
Read above my opinion on Scorpio. I don't think Scorpio is a Xbone 1.5, but a Scorpio 1.0.
But the closet thing to it will be the PS4K. And as a result of it being held back by the PS4, the Scorpio will in turn be held back as well (at least for multiplatform games).
Sony and Microsoft again going to an Arms Race is going to cause more harm than good.
But didn't the rumor already say that Scorpio games must be compatible with Xbone?
Either way, the easy way around any such issue is to only raise the rendering resolution after getting the assets up to a certain point. That said, if Scorpio results in a true PS5 in 2018, we are indeed looking at another Wii U situation with no way out.
I don't think we've heard anything about Scorpio besides specs at this point.
PS4K, we not only have specs, but the requirement that ALL PS4 games must have a PS4K equivalent that runs better on it than on PS4. And I don't think Sony could respond to Scorpio that fast if they want to without a slow start simply based on the idea of PS4K being an iterative box and question of whether Sony does it again. Microsoft simply has more money to throw around than Sony at this, and if that's how the war is going to go, Sony simply cannot win.
I've seen nothing like this. The games will be compatible because is Windows 10 based, the big question is if the parity will be mandatory.
Neo games must be quite the same as PS4 games, but Scorpio games could be well above these with no artificial parity imposed by MS.
Skittzo0413
Member
It's kinda crazy that in the time between when the NX code name was announced and now, we've learned pretty much everything about the hardware in two brand new iterative consoles from Sony and MS that essentially came out of nowhere before we've learned a single thing about the NX.
Sure we have some vague rumors, but as for real, tangible information we barely know anything. I wonder why Nintendo believes secrecy is such an important factor in NX, when clearly Sony and MS do not seem to care that developers are leaking information about their consoles. Hell, it's probably given them both positive press overall.
It's just a truly bizarre situation.
Edit:
As I said above, we know almost nothing at all about the NX. How do you know they haven't planned for this? How do you know they aren't planning on releasing an NX pro at 12 TF next April right after the NX comes out?
Obviously that's unlikely, but my point is making summary judgments against them like "If only Nintendo had planned ahead a bit more" is incredibly silly when we literally have no idea what they are planning. Just step back and think about how much we don't know about it before coming to that conclusion.
Sure we have some vague rumors, but as for real, tangible information we barely know anything. I wonder why Nintendo believes secrecy is such an important factor in NX, when clearly Sony and MS do not seem to care that developers are leaking information about their consoles. Hell, it's probably given them both positive press overall.
It's just a truly bizarre situation.
Edit:
As I said above, we know almost nothing at all about the NX. How do you know they haven't planned for this? How do you know they aren't planning on releasing an NX pro at 12 TF next April right after the NX comes out?
Obviously that's unlikely, but my point is making summary judgments against them like "If only Nintendo had planned ahead a bit more" is incredibly silly when we literally have no idea what they are planning. Just step back and think about how much we don't know about it before coming to that conclusion.
Yeah, then NX is Wii U 2, unfortunately. Honestly, Nintendo might be better off cutting the power even more in that case, since it won't be able to get AAA games past the first 18 months anyway and will look bad. (Though, I'm not sure how successful Scorpio will be in getting games tat PS4 can't get, but it just might force Sony to drop the restrictions and even bump up Neo's clocks.) A $200 Nintendo box is more appealing than a $250-300 Xbone with less games. If only Nintendo had planned ahead a bit more.
He who laughs last, laughs best.
In theory yes, but if the first models do not hit well it's hard to believe that any follow-up would do any better. It will be particularly concerning for Nintendo if the handheld dropoff continues, which is certainly possible.
Actually NX launching next year must be a success, otherwise Nintendo will get two failed hardware in a row and they will probably need to dump this NX also earlier and that will create a damn toxic story for their hardware.
Calm Mind
Member
heheheheheh
Not really. See, the real reason that Wii U is being dropped so early is most likely that it's difficult to drop its price and BOM without large economies of scale. If they fix that issue, they can coast along. Wii U probably would have been able to match GameCube sales after 5 years if they could have dropped the price, and that's more of a disappointment than a failure. If they launch something that can hit $99 after 3 years without costing them money, it makes more sense for them to coast along with it instead of just dropping it. The fact that they're choosing to go with "industry-leading chips" is proof of this, as it means that they're using components which haven't bottomed out in terms of cost yet.
Wii U didn't really have much when it launched from Nintendo either. It was basically all (perceivably) casual games. I'd argue that Nintendoland was the most core-oriented title of the bunch from them at launch. You can say NSMBU was, but NSMB2 just came out and people weren't going to spend $350 plus NSMBU when you could pay $200 for a NSMB game.
I wish the lead up to the NX launch was different.
If the main point of this discussion is about the viability of 3rd Party support, it'd be nice to see more devs saying they will outright support the console. It'd be weird if the most concrete thing about the PS4 months before it's reveal event was "We might support it if it makes sense" from one of the largest publishers.
I think the best way to gauge if the NX will be a Wii U repeat isn't just the hardware, but rather what publishers and developers are tentatively saying about it. But I guess we don't have much to work with on that front either.
If the main point of this discussion is about the viability of 3rd Party support, it'd be nice to see more devs saying they will outright support the console. It'd be weird if the most concrete thing about the PS4 months before it's reveal event was "We might support it if it makes sense" from one of the largest publishers.
I think the best way to gauge if the NX will be a Wii U repeat isn't just the hardware, but rather what publishers and developers are tentatively saying about it. But I guess we don't have much to work with on that front either.
I'm talking about the image issue that two failure in a row would create. Dropping it to $99 after 3 years will only add to that image issue ("Why to buy at launch? Better to be safe and wait for it to be $99). Also $99 didn't help Gamecube that much.
I blame this on Nintendo communication policies and strategy. I understand that they will reveal NX on their own terms, but 3rd parties should have more freedom and even be encouraged to communicate potential NX versions. On the other hand that might backfire if there isn't too much support. At lease now one can hope that it's the secrecy to blame, not the fact that there is no NX port.
Honestly, Nintendo's image is already rock-bottom. If it manages to get worse, there's literally nothing they could do and they'd have to drop hardware. Also, every console gets price cuts. The type of person willing to wait 3 years was never going to buy at launch without a mind-blowing lineup anyway. Dropping hardware early again would hurt more. Also, "$99" carries a much different meaning these days. It would also be possible to just launch at $99 from the start while blowing away NX in 2022 (Assuming NX launches at $199).
I think MS and Sony can afford to have leaks because there's a positive perception towards the consoles they have out now and people interested in their products are going to be excited about having something more powerful. Nintendo is coming off a failed console and they have to control the message, rumours and leaks would probably work in the opposite way for them than it does their competitors. They have to do something about the state of their brand. (I hope they're taking this time to do that)
Pokemaniac
Member
Chû Totoro;205282548 said:
It could in theory, but don't expect Wii U or 3DS to run NX games. The Wii U and 3DS OSes (really most OSes not named Windows) aren't built to be able to easily add a fully new API.
One of my many sources has confided that there will be a Nintendo Direct on June 2nd, to be announced in a matter of hours. Also, the controller has a screen, smaller than WiiU gamepad but with a higher resolution. My source continued to state that the CPU/GPU combo will be ARM/AMD for both home console and handheld.
My source is 10k's twitter.
Perfect.
Skittzo0413
Member
Sourcery!!
At this point silence might be doing more harm than leaks would, but I do get your point.
The lack of any information at all just sorta highlights how differently they are treating their new hardware compared to Sony/MS, and with the PS4 (and to a much lesser extent the XB1) being quite successful, you'd think they might learn a thing or two from those companies, as far as messaging goes.
Eolz
Member
That spoiler killed me.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Holy shit you're right.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Is he seriously still doing this?
Yes. A day or two ago a guy impersonating me of all people apparently sent him fake info claimed to be from LCGeek and he believed it. Kinda nuts. Best to ignore him.
Retromelon
Member
Funny how we get xbox and Sony hardware leaks regularly that go so far as to describe teraflop counts but with Nintendo everything is mysterious. I want to know the gimmick damn it! Your future in video game hardware is riding on this, it better be a good one!
Step away from the ledge man. We know nothing yet, this could be exactly what they are planning on doing.
This is one of the few places my handle is LCGeek. I find it odd someone would believe its me considering how I write or approach people to begin with.
Outside of one tidbit I don't feel I added that much but considering all the crap out there I see why some are hopeful and some are disappointed. Nintendo just isn't ready and quite frankly the behavior the last 2 months on this subject is a little shocking cause it signals to me they are rushing things with no real clue.
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