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[Green Biker Dude]

good. games need to be cheaper. after steam, mobile gaming is the best thing that has happened to gaming over the last couple of years. if those two options hadn't emerged, they'd be charging 70-80 dollars for 2-5 hour games in the next generation without a second thought, probably by blaming the weak dollar or some shit, and some folks here would still be buying them and talking about how they don't mind the price

 

[obonicus]

He is right to worry that people won't buy many $60 console games or $40 handheld games when visually superior games can soon be had on the iPad 3 and company for far less.

'Visually superior games' cost money to make. A lot of it. Even taking into account outsourcing assets to China, I don't think the costs of producing assets has fallen to the point where it's not prohibitive for these ultra-cheap games. Hell, it's still prohibitive for some $60 games.

 

[Wallach]

again. it is not how it looks but how immersive it is. Can you seriously get a Gears of War games with all the bells and whistles and enjoy it on a screen from 3.5 inches to 9.7 inches? I would much rather have it on the bigger screen as would most hardcore gamers

I don't know how much that matters in the long term. Japan seems to be moving away from consoles to handhelds altogether and they use similar screen sizes.

 

[Gustav]

good. games need to be cheaper. after steam, mobile gaming is the best thing that has happened to gaming over the last couple of years. if those two options hadn't emerged, they'd be charging 70-80 dollars for 2-5 hour games in the next generation without a second thought, probably by blaming the weak dollar or some shit, and some folks here would still be buying them and talking about how they don't mind the price

Maybe because they really don't!

 

[Zeliard]

It's not money, it's time. I had intended to play Just Cause 2 on 360 last night but just before, I flicked on the news. Whilst I was watching the news I started casually playing, believe it or not, Infinity Blade. I'd been playing it that lunchtime and I figured I'd just finish that bloodline. Before I knew it, over an hour had passed and I didn't really have time for JC2. Because IB was on my phone, I picked it up again in bed later that night and put in another 30-45 minutes.

If that happens often enough, you start thinking twice about buying full price console games at launch. That's the boat I'm in and I suspect I'm not alone.

It's certainly becoming a bit trickier now that you're able to basically get these full RPGs and other games on your iPhone or iPad at a cheap price relative to what they retail at on other platforms (like the NDS). The consoles are in trouble in this regard particularly with the default $60 price tag for almost everything outside of downloadable titles.

PC gaming is in better shape since it has fantastic deals going on all the time that the consoles simply can't match because they don't have those distribution channels. A dev/publisher's PC game may not sell well off the bat but by sticking it in digital distribution streams the lifespan of that product on the 'shelves' goes up significantly, and they have a much greater shot at making profit.

Consoles just aren't able to do that yet and so a console game that bombs sales-wise at $60 has a very difficult time making that up even with a quick price drop. If they don't fix this problem it's going to get much worse, where trying to introduce a new big-budget IP will be close to impossible unless you're a popular developer tied to a major publisher. Nothing without significant brand recognition will eventually be able to sell at that high a price point. We're already close to there - we're seeing so many sequels (E3 this year was dominated by them) and absurd reboots (XCOM) because publishers are afraid to finance new IPs.

 

[Vic]

I'm being repetitive now and a little be cliché, but I believe that dedicated gaming systems will greatly change in the upcoming generations because the current ways of doing business cannot be sustained.

On the other hand, the uniqueness & the dedication to gaming of the gaming console business keeps it sheltered from being entirely disrupted by PC/smartphones, platforms which are not concerned about pushing gaming into the exact same avenues. Similar when it comes to the technology, not so when it comes to the business models (for the better or the worst).

 

[dark10x]

good. games need to be cheaper. after steam, mobile gaming is the best thing that has happened to gaming over the last couple of years. if those two options hadn't emerged, they'd be charging 70-80 dollars for 2-5 hour games in the next generation without a second thought, probably by blaming the weak dollar or some shit, and some folks here would still be buying them and talking about how they don't mind the price

There's a limit, though. The prices aren't decided simply out of greed, you know. It DOES require a lot of money to create some of these games. I'm not suggesting that competition is anything other than a good thing, but you can't expect these games for iPhone level prices without making massive sacrifices.

 

[planar1280]

I don't know how much that matters in the long term. Japan seems to be moving away from consoles to handhelds altogether and they use similar screen sizes.

and look where the Japanese gaming industry stands at the moment. the western companies are coming up with better ideas.

 

[Wallach]

and look where the Japanese gaming industry stands at the moment. the western companies are coming up with better ideas.

That's an entirely different can of worms that I don't think you'll find everyone agrees with.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

If you see your competition as the shitty ass Netflix streaming service than you must think might low of your product.

Way to miss the point.

 

[BobTheFork]

Good points. I guess in the end these two game genres I don't feel overlap as much as other people do. I know it's not about but time. The thing is that these games and the experience they bring are so so different that I don't it pulling people away from larger games. It's tough for me to judge honestly, I'm just not entering that time when I don't have as much time to game, but a scaled down repetitive experience isn't going to be a substitute.
It feels dev were competing for people's time more than money and now mobile devices have expanded the time people have to play games and who does it most often. I don't think the expansion of one end of the market will thin out of the other end too bad.

 

[Ulchie]

This sounds as stupid as 'Really? Consoles can do things other than play games now?'.

Just so you know.

What's so stupid about it? My reasoning is everybody was all hyped when these phones came out, bought a bunch of games, thus the iPhone gaming bubble, and now it's likely calming down as people realize the experiences just aren't going to captivate them as much as they believed.

 

[rpg_poser]

Well, after looking at the responses, it seems that GAF and the gaming industry thinks the dust has not settled.
Have to say I am bummed about the slowing of console game development, I am not really into AAA titles (especially at $60 a pop), but it means there is less chance of a rough gem being released as well (Deadly Premonition).
Looks like smartphone gaming still isn't where I would like it to be, and pads have some evolving to do before I replace my comfy couch PC.

EDIT: Left out a word.

 

[Green Biker Dude]

There's a limit, though. The prices aren't decided simply out of greed, you know. It DOES require a lot of money to create some of these games. I'm not suggesting that competition is anything other than a good thing, but you can't expect these games for iPhone level prices without making massive sacrifices.

oh please. pc games had high res assets back in the day and were still sold for 50. as soon as this gen hits, they decide they have to charge the extra 10 since the assets are now suddenly more expensive. to add insult to the injury, they start taking away content from the games to release as dlc. as if that wasn't enough, most games AREN'T EVEN HD IN THE CONSOLES

 

[Lothars]

good. games need to be cheaper. after steam, mobile gaming is the best thing that has happened to gaming over the last couple of years. if those two options hadn't emerged, they'd be charging 70-80 dollars for 2-5 hour games in the next generation without a second thought, probably by blaming the weak dollar or some shit, and some folks here would still be buying them and talking about how they don't mind the price

It's not though, mobile gaming is not a bad thing but it's one of the worst things to happen to gaming in many years because of how it's a race to the bottem in price, if a game is not .99c than it gets ignored by the majority of people but the good thing about that is that that market will implode on itself and than sort itself out to how it's suppose to be and I would say that will happen in the next couple years at the latest.

There will always be room for bigger games and It will change but I don't see dedicated consoles going away, they just will be different than they are now.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

What's so stupid about it? My reasoning is everybody was all hyped when these phones came out, bought a bunch of games, thus the iPhone gaming bubble, and now it's likely calming down as people realize the experiences just aren't going to captivate them as much as they believed.

I think the point is that the mobile platforms don't have to exist in between two extremes in terms of viability. The gold rush of the iOS being an untapped market of limitless wealth probably isn't looking as promising as it did a couple of years ago, sure. However, the notion that people played their Angry Birds, and then went back to realizing that their phone made calls and their dedicated gaming machines were where games are played also misses the point. Furthermore, it ignores problems in the console world that cheap mobile gaming illuminated that won't go away even if mobile gaming does (it won't).

 

[ScionOfTheRisingSun]

All I know is I buy based on what I like, not based on what things are priced.

In that sense I display an equal opportunity disinterest in mobile/social games as well as any Epic game or anything running on their horrendous engine.

 

[SmokyDave]

What's so stupid about it? My reasoning is everybody was all hyped when these phones came out, bought a bunch of games, thus the iPhone gaming bubble, and now it's likely calming down as people realize the experiences just aren't going to captivate them as much as they believed.

Ah, I guess we've had opposite experiences then. I underestimated the market at first and assumed it'd never get better than PvZ & Angry Birds. Nowadays I think iOS games are awesome and it's one area where I can still buy games in genres long-dead on consoles.

I think these 'experiences' are proving far more captivating than you give them credit for.

but it means there is less chance of a rough gem being released as well (Deadly Premonition).

These games will still be released, just not on consoles.

Check out 'Mission Europa' for one example. Far too ropey to ever see mainstream release, but a 'rough gem' to many.

 

[Wallach]

I think the point is that the mobile platforms don't have to exist in between two extremes in terms of viability. The gold rush of the iOS being an untapped market of limitless wealth probably isn't looking as promising as it did a couple of years ago, sure. However, the notion that people played their Angry Birds, and then went back to realizing that their phone made calls and their dedicated gaming machines were where games are played also misses the point. Furthermore, it ignores problems in the console world that cheap mobile gaming illuminated that won't go away even if mobile gaming does (it won't).

I think this is pretty much spot on. iPhone gaming isn't just going to implode and disappear, it'll adjust and settle somewhere more reasonable without much in the way of noise or fanfare. If anyone thinks it is "going away" they aren't paying any attention to the user base growth. Basically the entire smartphone/tablet hardware market would have to mysteriously disappear for that to happen. Not something I'd rush to Vegas to make a bet on.

 

[LyleLanley]

Start making games more interesting than iPhone Apps ... in terms of gameplay, then talk. Bye.

You really need to check out the iOS gaming thread, there are a ton of great games on the platform. Which brings me to my point, why cant the two industries coexist? I love iPhone games but I'm not replacing my 360 or PS3 just yet.

 

[Green Biker Dude]

It's not though, mobile gaming is not a bad thing but it's one of the worst things to happen to gaming in many years because of how it's a race to the bottem in price, if a game is not .99c than it gets ignored by the majority of people

1. that's not true. if someone is only willing to buy a 1 dollar game, they weren't willing to buy more expensive games anyway. that's just a different market altogether.

2. it doesn't have to be a race to the bottom. by including more content, the game stands out and has a better chance of selling. capitalism, ho.

if developers/publishers don't want competition or don't want to include more content, then that's their problem. if they can't because it's too expensive, then the industry needs to crash so it can become sustainable, or they'll have come up with new ideas before that happens

 

[Ulchie]

I think the point is that the mobile platforms don't have to exist in between two extremes in terms of viability. The gold rush of the iOS being an untapped market of limitless wealth probably isn't looking as promising as it did a couple of years ago, sure. However, the notion that people played their Angry Birds, and then went back to realizing that their phone made calls and their dedicated gaming machines were where games are played also misses the point. Furthermore, it ignores problems in the console world that cheap mobile gaming illuminated that won't go away even if mobile gaming does (it won't).

I still think it's a completely separate market. With current tech I can't see how it would make people stop playing COD for example. You just have certain experiences on a phone.

If phones get to the point techwise that some people are talking about in this thread, then dev costs rise with it too anyways. Of course, their saving grace is the barrier to entry of owning an Android/iPhone will generally be less than that of owning a console. I'm just not sure that many of these iPhone/Android "gamers" and the console gamers are one and the same.

 

[Horsemama1956]

There's a limit, though. The prices aren't decided simply out of greed, you know. It DOES require a lot of money to create some of these games. I'm not suggesting that competition is anything other than a good thing, but you can't expect these games for iPhone level prices without making massive sacrifices.

They're made out of greed though.

I feel as if companies like Epic are falling right into Apples hands of getting people away from Nintendo, Sony, MS. They don't even really need to take money out their own pocket for these games. Apple must know their system can't possibly sustain a gaming industry, but they know Epic would love to make a cheap game and make piles of money and that other companies like EA will say "yes please!". These mobile games take very little time and very little risk. Apple is just playing on these guys greed.

Apple knows if you release a $.99 game/app and it's crap people will still look into it because it's no risk for them. Most of the "core" people game companies are targeting now were kids and didn't buy their own games in previous generations, so you could get away with releasing a bunch of crap, since parents typically buy what their kids want.

Now those people need to spend their own money and they aren't willing to do it on anything, just because it's a video game. They also have their own kids now and won't buy their kids a game if they find it to be shit. Parent's in the SNES/PSX era weren't gamers, so they didn't know any better.

I have kids and I won't buy them games if I think it's shitty, since that's a waste of money.

 

[Tawpgun]

Companies with popular franchises and trusted names. Basically the big boys... Need not worry. People will buy their games. This DOES however hurt any up and coming studios that want to get into the console market. The only hope for them is XBLA or mobile.

 

[Rygar 8 Bit]

sounds butt hurt that not all demographics are into the $60 dollar experience

 

[Red UFO]

How come none of these developers ever notice that there is a large gap in $0.99 and $60? I'm sure there is a market for some mid-sized (in terms of budget) games for $30 at retail.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I still think it's a completely separate market. With current tech I can't see how it would make people stop playing COD for example. You just have certain experiences on a phone.

Well, it's not going to cause a mass exodus, sure. There's still going to be a market for Call of Duty. It'll make money. Some other AAA shooters will make money as well. But we're not talking in terms of absolutes here. It's not like people are either only gaming on their mobile device, or only gaming on their HD-capable PC/console. For companies in the market of making expensive blockbusters that get more and more expensive, lack of growth in their market is alarming, let alone any shrinking of that market. If you have metrics that suggest that people are spending less time playing the types of games that you make and market, that's going to be disconcerting even if it doesn't signal that there's no market for your next game.

 

[LyleLanley]

sounds butt hurt that not all demographics are into the $60 dollar experience

While I think there is room for both, I find it kind of funny that all these developers are getting pissed off at $1 games when the industry on a yearly basis puts out $60 games that barely contain any changes (Every sports game ever). There's got to be some middle ground here that can work for everyone.

 

[Hey You]

A mobile future? No Thanks.

I'll keep buying Retail titles.

 

[GodofWine]

How come none of these developers ever notice that there is a large gap in $0.99 and $60? I'm sure there is a market for some mid-sized (in terms of budget) games for $30 at retail.

Very good point...would love to see the 'online only' games (console) get a 30-40 dollar price, and they can make up for the rest via map packs or selling unlocks early (not game breaking ones...).

One of the big fish will try it, they'll say , what if we release BF4 or MW 4 without a single player, whats that do to our sales vs. investment...I guess it puts them at a positive number.

Also agree its more time vs. money...being a father of 2 kids (25 months, and 1 month), I play more on addictinggames.com than my PS3 right now...I just need a quick, fun experience to unwind and kill time in the 2 minutes of free time I get daily.

Aging games = busy gamers.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

This will happen much sooner than the games media imagine.

The games media and journalists (especially American) are so focused on the consoles that they aren't really picking up on the success of the Smartphones and the PC.

I for one can't wait to see GameTrailers in 5 years. If they still exist.

Dennis, that is so true. It´s so funny that i can´t wait to see, what will happen to "gaming journalism". I want "gaming journalism" to die a horrible and painful death.

 

[rpg_poser]

Aging game|r|s = busy gamers.

Fixed... That's my demographic! 1 hour after dinner on the comfy couch and 10 mins with the DS right before bed.

 

[Corleth the Fey]

The 59p game is dead - long live the 69p game!

I was faintly amused by the poster who claimed that '99 cent' games would one day look as good $60 games due to technology improving. Most $60 games look better because of the millions spent on the assets, not the tech.

If dollar/69p games are to look this good or contain lots of content, then there has to be a belief on the developers/publishers part that the money spent on all those assets can be made back and more.

I've bought a lot of games for my smartphone - but I hardly play them. I prefer the console/PC experience - but then I'm an old fart now who's been gaming for 30 years. I won't change - if the future is to be the smartphone - well that's how it goes I guess.

What I do know is there's enough console/PC content already made that I haven't played yet, that will happily see me to the end of my days.

 

[Shai-Tan]

I play more XBLA/PSN/Indy PC games than I play anything else but it's not like I'm not going to get Uncharted 3, Battlefield 3, etc. I probably do pass on a more big budget games than I used to but price isn't why I choose to play other games.

I think when games I consider quality are released on tablets then it will displace some of the time I spend playing the XBLA/PSN/PC/handheld games.

Games I played more than an hour in the last 30 days: Magic 2012, Dungeons of Dredmor, Outland, co-op Pixeljunk Shooter 2, Clash of Heroes, Bastion, LittleBigPlanet 2, Team Fortress 2, Bad Company 2, Terraria, Crimson Gem Saga, Hot Springs Story.

In the fall there will be more big budget games but I won't bother with games with only decent quality like Bulletstorm because I'm having more fun with some other games whether they are $10, $50 or 99cents. Too many of the big budget games are clumped in one of a few genre so of course some of them lose out... to the games in the same genre that are better than it. Is Gears 3 really competing that much with 99c games or is it getting a smaller piece of the pie with the Call of Duty, Battlefield, Uncharted, etc that exist?

 

[The Technomancer]

Yeah, we've got something of a rough transition period in the next few years as we balance out pricing schemes with budget problems to find the optimal solution.

 

[Pollux]

He is right to worry that people won't buy many $60 console games or $40 handheld games when visually superior games can soon be had on the iPad 3 and company for far less.

After the PS Vita and 3DS, the handheld market will be stone cold dead. It will take a little longer for consoles but with my eyes I will watch the death of the games console.

The future belongs to the PC and Smartphones plus Tablets.

There will always be a place for people who want a console. It's never going to completely die out, until we can get the same level of computing power into a handheld. But even then there will be people who want to sit on their couch and play a game on their TV.

 

[LyleLanley]

There will always be a place for people who want a console. It's never going to completely die out, until we can get the same level of computing power into a handheld. But even then there will be people who want to sit on their couch and play a game on their TV.

Mobile gaming will be able to do that sooner than later. You can already do it with an iPad 2 and an Apple TV

 

[lordmrw]

How come none of these developers ever notice that there is a large gap in $0.99 and $60? I'm sure there is a market for some mid-sized (in terms of budget) games for $30 at retail.

No one wants to be the first one to price their game lower because it will "supposedly" sends a message that says their game is worth less/not as good as the $60 game on the shelf next to it.

 

[we.are.the.armada]

Reading this gets me excited to see how the Playstation Vita will do. This sort of hybrid platform where both dual-joystick, trigger games can exist with multi-touch screen ones gets me very excited since I travel a lot.

 

[Corleth the Fey]

Mobile gaming will be able to do that sooner than later. You can already do it with an iPad 2 and an Apple TV

He also meant to add - use a real controller. The iPad isn't a smartphone either - it's touchscreen apple laptop minus the errr top (or is that bottom?)!

 

[dark10x]

sounds butt hurt that not all demographics are into the $60 dollar experience

Of course, but the point is that not all demographics are into 99 cent apps either. Even those that DO enjoy both would never want to replace those $60 games with cheap iPhone apps.

 

[LyleLanley]

He also meant to add - use a real controller. The iPad isn't a smartphone either - it's touchscreen apple laptop minus the errr top (or is that bottom?)!

I would be surprised if the iPhone 4s or 5 or whatever it's called wont be able to do the same thing. As for the real controller, who knows what either Android or iOS will have in the future but a bluetooth controller doesn't seem like a preposterous idea at some point.

Edit: I forgot to add, the iPad is closer to a smartphone than you think.

 

[Valnen]

Just curious, how would you guys feel if $40 was full price instead of $60 on everything, not just Capcom expansion packs?

Would you be more likely to buy new at release date, and take risks with new IP's?

 

[timetokill]

Just curious, how would you guys feel if $40 was full price instead of $60 on everything, not just Capcom expansion packs?

Would you be more likely to buy new at release date, and take risks with new IP's?

It's simple economics: If all other things were equal, then yes, of course we (the general we) would.

 

[Frankfurt]

I don't think they're the same market. While there will be overlap, the type of gamer spending hours on their smartphone / ipad isn't the same type of person that will be buying Gears 3.

Yes, they can be.

I played the Gears 3 beta every day on my 360. I use my console every single day. And I have also played Chaos Rings on my iPod for at least 15 hours, Gameloft's GTA rip-offs for at least 30 hours, and so on.

Not every console gamer thinks mobile is inferior.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Just curious, how would you guys feel if $40 was full price instead of $60 on everything, not just Capcom expansion packs?

Would you be more likely to buy new at release date, and take risks with new IP's?

Sure.

 

[KingJ2002]

Three things should happen if they want to circumvent the these 99 cent games from taking over.

1. Tiered pricing on traditional video games
2. Provide dev tools to independent developers to create their own independent titles (like apple's dev program)
3. Free to play games (with advertisements / paid dlc) enter console space.


These 3 things would change console gaming to match the current demands in the market.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I don't see the overlap bothering either market. I play games on my phone and i plop down and play my PS3/360 as well. I have enough time for both and I buy more games than the average person for both.

 

[ii Stryker]

I would have thought it's more appropriate for developers to have a suite of titles that target a range of price points and appropriate platforms, rather than putting all their eggs in one basket, as it were.

I think initially they were trying to. Like, IIRC, EA had a smartphone game of ME and same with Ubisoft with AC to supplement the story of the $60 game. However most publishers are finding out that the consumer base is not the same.

I for one prefer playing while sitting comfortably in my recliner on my 56" Toshiba. I only play games at home. If I'm out on an errand my time is occupied by whatever is necessary to complete the errand and if I do have any down time I'll typically just read an article in my phones web browser.

 

[Shai-Tan]

Three things should happen if they want to circumvent the these 99 cent games from taking over.

1. Tiered pricing on traditional video games
2. Provide dev tools to independent developers to create their own independent titles (like apple's dev program)
3. Free to play games (with advertisements / paid dlc) enter console space.


These 3 things would change console gaming to match the current demands in the market.

I think they already showed with Infinity Blade that the 99c is a red herring considering it sells for 5.99. I wouldn't be surprised to see 19.99 on the platform in the future that are selling well. If the controls and graphics were there we probably would already have near retail priced games. I think the issue with some of these big budget games is they are hoping to be able to win the lottery like some of the small indy games are and it's not possible because the market for hardcore games is saturated whether or not 99c games exist. There are so many games coming out on the ps3 and 360 now that it's years before I get to them if ever.