But you use the source and provide additional evidence to back what the source is claiming. Saying that the other sources back each other up becomes suspicious when they all come from the same "mutual contact".
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Escapist's clarification on their sources for the Star Citizen op-ed
- Thread starter Last Hearth
- Start date
But you use the source and provide additional evidence to back what the source is claiming. Saying that the other sources back each other up becomes suspicious when they all come from the same "mutual contact".
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Sure if someone is leveling an accusation and bearing proof. Whistle-blower protection is a basic tenet of journalism. It should be extended to people who have broken the law to reveal illegal activity as well--hell I still have mixed feelings about Snowden.
But giving an ex-employee a public outlet to air their various office politics grievances is not journalism. Or if it is, it's TMZ-level yellow journalism.
Did the Escapist have any BS like this before GG started? Because this is the second time since that bullshit (the first being the "Devs thoughts on GG" - "Female devs' thoughts on GG" article shit), within about a year, that they're in hot water. And within a few months they just vetted a huge chunk of their talent and content creators just out of the blue.
Man, I remember being one of the most active members back in the day. It's both depressing and a bit cathartic to see this go down.
Saucycarpdog
Member
Your bias is showing.
100% true. Anonymous sources have gotten completely out of control in the media and the last thing enthusiast outlets like Escapist need to be aping is that flimsy practice. Not everyone is Mark Felt, and if they don't want their name in print, you can find someone else or you can accept there may not be a story worth publishing. Or you wait for some lawsuit to be filed or charges to be laid and then lay it all out. A lot of these people are apparently former employees so other than possible NDAs I'm not sure what repercussions they should fear.
I also find it odd that so little effort was made to reach Chris Roberts, who without having any presence this piece would come off as a one-sided smear, to the point that someone didn't check their junk folder before publication. I also find it odd that so many people came forward to one website, but for all I know they may be well motivated by a poor working environment. Again, the thing with anonymous sources is the inability to scrutinize on the part of the reader makes things hard to take seriously.
Sorry to say I agree with this. Given history I wonder how much the interest in this article has to do with the strange backstory of Star Citizen. But then no matter what the journalistic bungle is, someone on GAF will always show up to defend it and insist something is being made out of nothing.
Pretty much this.
I find it hard to believe that the author would completely fabricate the whole article with the help of a third party that has absolutely no links to the devs and that the publisher would double down on everything without double checking the material.
The article is poorly written, that's for sure. And there was no reason to not hold the piece for a few days and hear the answer from the developers unless the Escapist was worried that someone else might break the news first, and even then there is a case to be made that they still should have waited.
Considering the possible fallout for the site and the reporter if this is a complete fabrication, I just can't believe they did it all for the clicks.
Before anyone says something, I'm not arguing that the allegations on the article are true. Sources lie and change the facts all the time. It's on the reporter to verify everything before running with the story.
I'm just saying people shouldn't dismiss this so easily.
To me it seems like you and many others are wanting the project to fail and looking for any reason to jump on the bandwagon that it is with no proof because this article has no proof.
It seems more and more that Escapist made up this story from "sources"
Finished game? Game is still in production, how is this relevant argument.
You know, doesnt help that most of those quotes sounds like 14 years old on rage attack, i mean even completely ignoring tone and how they were written, some accusation are just surreal for anyone who work in bigger company.
Additionally when You are evaluating an employer You dont write only negatives, because there are never only positives or negatives.
And people are not keen to leave CIG, actually it is the other way around, tons of big names from the industry moved to them, this should speak more about company atmosphere than any official response from both parties.
Ps. We have at least 4 gaffers that work in CIG, i wonder how they feel about this situation and some posts in this thread.
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What are You talking about? They expanded like crazy this year, just because some people left, for various of reasons, dont mean anything. They created whole new studio in Frankfurt just this year that has tons of people with 10-15 years of experience.
I am more inclined to trust the person who places his identity and reputation in front of his words.
Yeah, but we must not forget in the end Lucifer didn't manage to get results... to my great disappointment. In fact, a disgruntled employee was his downfall... sort of...
Devil's Advocate
haha, great post
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
You know, at least the hit pieces on Chris Roberts and Ken Levine came from dedicated games writers with industry connections and understandings. Andrew McMillen seems pretty much about drugs and rock stars, really.
So there are, what, 9 Anonymous sources? And no one from those 9 people had the balls to say that with their names on display?
What are they fearing? CIG Hitmans offing them in the night?
Unhappy employees or ones that didnt like the working environment, reporting their experience with such a big company are not uncommon. We had (several?) reports about Ex-Valve Employees that didnt find Valhalla working for Valve or couldnt fit into the working clique, speaking about their experience within Valve unanonymisly.
So none of the 9 Sources had the balls? To "just" say that the working environment was "toxic"? I dont think that lands you in some kind of industry-wide black book and you have to work at McDonalds for a consequence.
Speaking about financials is another can of worms, I know that. But surely not all 9 of them said that the financials were fishy right?
What are they fearing? CIG Hitmans offing them in the night?
Unhappy employees or ones that didnt like the working environment, reporting their experience with such a big company are not uncommon. We had (several?) reports about Ex-Valve Employees that didnt find Valhalla working for Valve or couldnt fit into the working clique, speaking about their experience within Valve unanonymisly.
So none of the 9 Sources had the balls? To "just" say that the working environment was "toxic"? I dont think that lands you in some kind of industry-wide black book and you have to work at McDonalds for a consequence.
Speaking about financials is another can of worms, I know that. But surely not all 9 of them said that the financials were fishy right?
SRTtoZ
Member
Site should be banned. Its even embarrassing that an article needs to come out separately to explain their 'sources' if you can even call them that.
That's the most alarming part that people seem to gloss over. Lets say for a second if you believe that bullshit excuse that they did indeed post on Glassdoor prior to the interview, why IN THE WORLD would the article have quotes verbatim to the glassdoor 'reviews'.
That's the most alarming part that people seem to gloss over. Lets say for a second if you believe that bullshit excuse that they did indeed post on Glassdoor prior to the interview, why IN THE WORLD would the article have quotes verbatim to the glassdoor 'reviews'.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
I don't see what the big deal here is with what you are talking about. I wouldn't want to hire someone that aired their previous company's dirty laundry. I also think calling someone a racist, horrible person, the company mismanaged money, etc is completely different than what people complained about at Valve.
You are complaining about people not wanting to possibly hurt their careers.
This is so short sighted.
Even though we have laws to protect whistleblowers they still get blowback. For example, Kiriakou was raising awareness of waterboarding at Guantanamo bay and was jailed for it. He was reporting water boarding!
It's fine to not believe the report without documentation but doubting it because of anonymity isn't going to encourage people to get anything done. Do you think EA would've revised their labor practices if people didn't believe EA Spouse's anonymous reports about how they overworked her husband and coworkers even though she didn't provide hard proof?
Explanation, please.
The movie you're thinking of is 'All The President's Men', and as Brn Bradley memorably commented 'Why won't anyone go on the texts about this?'
However those ITT asking for the journos to name names have no idea how investigative journalism works.
Dictator93
Member
Ah, that is it. hah
ALL 9 of them? All of them reported the same things that would land them in the industry black book?
Not one of them was just saying "Well working there sucked, I didnt fit into the clique, I moved on. I dont have anything to say about the allegations my other ex-colleagues are reporting."
Nothing like this would land you in a blackbook.
How are the odds that all of them reported about financial Problems, racism, and upper-management extravaganza?
Even if ALL of this was true, not everyone would report the same thing. I worked at places where I thought this whole company sucked. The upermanagement was traveling from one site to the other every other week, costing the company huge bonus/travel payments, the management had no ear for the employers, pay was atrocious, the yearly Employee satisfaction survey was always a running joke that it was doctored with, employee climate was very bad, etc.
But would I report on doctored employee satisfaction surveys or idiotic travel expanses with leased luxury cars?
No, I would report how it sucked at a personal level, how the pay sucked and how i was unhappy at the company. Because upermanagment Extravaganza is just a self fullfilling prophecy for company drones. You know it happens and you THINK it will always happen, so why report on it?
Their is always an ulterior motive if you report on things you cant change in the upper level or that you just cant know the details about. Always with the mocker, that you want to protect the "customer" (in this specific case)
Just as it happens, this Journalist finds 9 Employees that want to talk about the skeletons in the basement of CIG. And not one of them just said "It sucked, I moved on."
Just think of the timeline here! She found 9 Employees in a week that contacted her after she wrote an Article about CIG. NINE! Is there some secret society of ex- CIG Employees that just wait for the shit to hit the fan?
JUST THINK OF IT! How often does it happen that there are so many anonymous sources from a company that want to talk shit about the company and get published?
There are many MANY awefull companies in the World. Where are the disgruntled EA employees? where are the Rockstar employees after the working conditions where reported upon? Ubisoft has thousends of employees, some of which are shoved into a building complex for months or years doing nothing, because they are currently not needed.
Do we have another report on any coporation, where such a large number of anonymous ex-employees were talking shit about their Employer? I cant remember any and am happy for someone with more knowledge to point me to it.
I want to check the Escapist forums to see the reactions, but the mind can only take so much bullshit. Too funny.
Dictator93
Member
hehe Deep Throat the movie is something completely different
Oh my. OH MY
In fairness, in the case of EA Spouse she and her partner did go public with their names once the story broke open.
Posted this in the main thread, thought I'd post it here too.
CIG just updated their Escapist response with a demand letter from Freyermuth.
Basically, if they don't offer an apology and a retraction, legal action will be taken.
Ya dun fucked up Escapist.
Oh shit...
Cabbagehead
Member
DICKS AHOY
Banned
I'm not familiar with Star Citizen or its relationship with Lizzy/The Escapist, so reading that letter would there be a particular reason why the devs think these articles were written as character assassination rather than just reporting on what they thought was an attention-grabbing story without background checking enough?
I'm familiar with Derek Smart's very recent spat with the devs, but I was also under the impression Escapist keeps insisting he had nothing to do with this story.
I'm familiar with Derek Smart's very recent spat with the devs, but I was also under the impression Escapist keeps insisting he had nothing to do with this story.
jep that one stood out to me as well. very interesting
VibratingDonkey
Member
"...the Author and his colleagues..."
I'm pretty sure Lizzy is a she.
Anyway. I suppose shit's starting to get real, and CIG is interested in making it publicly real. Either they know they're right, and/or are somewhat confident that The Escapist can't sufficiently support its published allegations.
hobblygobbly
Member
I wonder if the "company ID cards" are those that were given to backers... the citizen cards. It would be hilarious if true and that's what The Escapist thinks is a "company ID card"
Cabbagehead
Member
You see this mindset is the problem here.
This is not the first time nor second time Escapist has done something like this in relation to this project. They have been for some reason very negative towards this project for no reason really and have been putting out false information and the like for a bit now.
Not doing their research and vetting before putting out a article. Or otherwise doing what they did with their recent "Podcast" which was super disgusting in of itself. An what ultimately and mostly prompted this letter and coming action.
Oh my god, that would only make this story even better.
Raitosaito
Member
I can't tell what's the truth and what isn't anymore.
hobblygobbly
Member
Yep and I have heard people suggest it may have been Derek Smart's card (since he has one) that he showed with his name blocked out to The Escapist while acting/posing as an employee with the fabricated sources. It will be hilarious if true.
kutthoat5150
Member
The Escapist is soon going to be a very large backer for SC
plasmawave
Banned
Damn lol.
Yeah, I was just about to post this article is grounds for a libel suit if they can't prove their allegations. You can post articles about people's perceptions of working conditions and what not and be ok afaik but you can't be wrong about criminal activities if you're going to make the accusation.
Last Hearth
Member
"you were dealing with a small group of disgruntled former employees..."
So didn't they just admit the sources were actually ex-employees and not fake?
So didn't they just admit the sources were actually ex-employees and not fake?
They wouldn't know the sources due to the anonymity. I would assume they are just going with what the article claimed. Accusing them of having fake sources in a publicly posted letter and then being proven wrong could cause them some issues of their own I'd guess so better to be safe than sorry until it actually goes to court.
Just to add to this what I mean is there may be one or 2 employees in a pool of the nine or whatever and saying that they don't have ANY employee sources might get you burned in the public eye if they can prove some are employees. Claiming a small pool could be literally anything from 1 to all 9 and if it's zero so much the better.
Cabbagehead
Member
In every video, stream or what have you. Employees don't have ID cards visible on them or anything traditional like company issued ID cards but they always talk about keycards or keyfobs of the like.
funkystudent
Member
So someone in the UK wrote the story?
Then this is extra dumb because anyone who has ever sniffed any kind of media or journalistic education there would have had defamation law beaten into them quick.
Then this is extra dumb because anyone who has ever sniffed any kind of media or journalistic education there would have had defamation law beaten into them quick.