Support NeoGAF

[Lady Gaia]

Why are remasters like dishonored and darksiders 2 that should easily run at 100+++ fps on the ps4's gpu still 30 fps? (and these games do run at 100+fps easily on a pc with a hd7850 and a decent cpu)

Why is that if not because of the cpu

A tremendous number of last-generation titles aren't going to be effectively multi-threaded so they're going to bottleneck on a single CPU core. The same game designed from the ground up today would either be heavily threaded to take advantage of 8-core systems or make extensive use of GPU compute for computationally taxing work.

... but remasters are almost invariably a gamble that with minimal costs you can make a decent profit off modest sales. That equation goes south quickly if you need to put a lot of time and energy into rearchitecting existing code for a very different system. So you get games that leave most cores idle while running just well enough to generate sales.

 

[BasedKiliK]

Re-read that and tell me its not a bunch of complicated anti-consumer horseshit that could be alleived by just waiting a couple of years and releasing a ps5/xbtwo

It's not like we upgrade our phones every 2 to 4 years or anything.

If you don't want to upgrade, run with what you have. You'll still be playing the same games for a long time.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Re-read that and tell me its not a bunch of complicated anti-consumer horseshit that could be alleived by just waiting a couple of years and releasing a ps5/xbtwo

Then wait until the PS5/XBox 2 comes out. Not sure what you are upset about, you get to keep playing your current system and still get new games. Nobody is forcing you to get the new systems. The userbase is only split if you don't get the same access and by all accounts they are making sure that doesn't happen.

 

[SneakyStephan]

A tremendous number of last-generation titles aren't going to be effectively multi-threaded so they're going to bottleneck on a single CPU core. The same game designed from the ground up today would either be heavily threaded to take advantage of 8-core systems or make extensive use of GPU compute for computationally taxing work.

... but remasters are almost invariably a gamble that with minimal costs you can make a decent profit off modest sales. That equation goes south quickly if you need to put a lot of time and energy into rearchitecting existing code for a very different system. So you get games that leave most cores idle while running just well enough to generate sales.

Even dice, arguably the most competent developer around when it comes to multithreading games, and a pioneer when it comes to that, still can't get their lod and draw distance up to par in their games.
What's the standout difference in battlefield 1 pc vs console footage? The pop in

If even they can't do it, and other S tier devs like kojima's team with mgs5,ubisoft with their AC games and techland with dying light can't do it, what chance do all the A tier, B tier and indie devs have?

The logic that it can be worked around by AAA devs (and it's unproven btw) with enough optimisation is the same kind of crap people said during the ps3 gen with the cell cpu.

If it's a pain in the ass and requires extraordinary talent to pull off then it means that the vast majority of games will suffer. And they have so far.

There's this logical fallacy that if a handful of exclusives can achieve something extra with the hardware that you somehow don't need better hardware. I guess the other 90 percent of games don't matter.
Fact is a better cpu with better performance and also better single threaded performance would make the life of all developers a whole lot easier. 60fps games would be a lot more common too.

 

[cutthroatslim]

99 percent of open world games on the consoles are only running at 30 fps
And all of them have awful draw distances/LOD


Why are remasters like dishonored and darksiders 2 that should easily run at 100+++ fps on the ps4's gpu still 30 fps? (and these games do run at 100+fps easily on a pc with a hd7850 and a decent cpu)

Why is that if not because of the cpu

QFT, anyone answer this yet or ...

edit : also, off topic, but does anyone happen to have info on where one can purchase PS4 fa cheap in the states?

 

[Kintaro]

Top guy at Epic, maker of Unreal Engine 4 is happy with new iterative consoles? No way!

I have no idea if these iterative consoles will help or hinter the industry. Hell, I still have plenty of pissed off customers that things have moved on from PS3 and XB360. The only real thing that will certainly help is if they can get these OG PS4s and XB1s down to $199.

 

[Lady Gaia]

Even dice, arguably the most competent developer around when it comes to multithreading games, and a pioneer when it comes to that, still can't get their lod and draw distance up to par in their games.
What's the standout difference in battlefield 1 pc vs console footage? The pop in

That's an entirely different subject than I was addressing. Only the team in question can tell you where they wound up being bottlenecked for modern titles designed from the ground up for current generation hardware. Tim Sweeney seemed to think that GPU advances were going to result in significant wins, so it would seem he's betting on GPU compute, increased shader throughput, and better fill rate to make a significant difference. The latter two are certainly plausible as a limiting factor for draw distance.

 

[gtj1092]

Can someone break down why this is different than eternal cross gen development. Like this is ok for a mid gen upgrade but I still want generations and big jumps. I want a ps5 and x1-2. FC is great in theory but next gen exclusives are better. Also with the shift to x86 developers weren't going to have to start over software wise with or without mid gen upgrades. I mean want naughty dog still able to use their last gen engine on ps4 and there's a huge difference in CPU there.

 

[Renekton]

This remark suggests no Zen for Scorpio.

 

[Cuburt]

Shocking News: Boss of middleware company thrilled that their scalable engine will likely find more customers as development costs skyrocket.

 

[quest]

This remark suggests no Zen for Scorpio.

They are guessing they have no inside information. What they forget is the Scorpio is supporting some VR device or devices. They are not making the device themselves so that leaves the PC devices and none of them would remotely work with a Jaguar/Puma. They require an I5 and that would require a desktop Zen.

 

[BasedKiliK]

Can someone break down why this is different than eternal cross gen development. Like this is ok for a mid gen upgrade but I still want generations and big jumps. I want a ps5 and x1-2. FC is great in theory but next gen exclusives are better. Also with the shift to x86 developers weren't going to have to start over software wise with or without mid gen upgrades. I mean want naughty dog still able to use their last gen engine on ps4 and there's a huge difference in CPU there.

If this type of model ends up becoming the norm, I would expect there to probably be a new system every 4 or so years, so I wouldn't expect a new PS5/Nextbox in that nature. And there will eventually be a point where the oldest/weakest platforms lose support. This is nothing new; older operating systems, mobile devices, etc have always eventually lost support due to the technology at that time becoming too weak or archaic after a while. Now, as for how long that support will be, we don't know. But if the PS3 and 360 are anything to go by, possibly a good 8 years or so from release.

Of course, these are just my own assumptions based on recent observations, but I guess we'll see how things progress for the next several years.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Shocking News: Boss of middleware company thrilled that their scalable engine will likely find more customers as development costs skyrocket.

IKR, they need to find somebody in a similar role who isn't happy about it---and willing to talk.

 

[bobbytkc]

99 percent of open world games on the consoles are only running at 30 fps
And all of them have awful draw distances/LOD


Why are remasters like dishonored and darksiders 2 that should easily run at 100+++ fps on the ps4's gpu still 30 fps? (and these games do run at 100+fps easily on a pc with a hd7850 and a decent cpu)

Why is that if not because of the cpu

Good thing 99 percent of games are not open world then .

 

[jroc74]

Pretty sure I play games with people who have a brand new Nvidia 1080 card while I'm still going strong with my 970...

Explain how it's splitting the user base.

Dont bring this type of logic into this!!!

Posting this on a PC that has an 8800 GS in it.... How about my smartphone might have overall better specs than my PC.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Shocking News: Boss of middleware company thrilled that their scalable engine will likely find more customers as development costs skyrocket.

These new boxes add only very moderate costs, certainly not "skyrocketing" ones.

 

[Nizz]

I've said this before and I will say it again: Keep 1080p but give us all the bells and whistles. Better lighting, AA, AO, textures, framerate, etc. goes a long way over merely increasing the resolution. So, to me, a buffed up 1080p game > a 4K game with mediocre graphics quality.

For me, this all day every day. I plan to get a Neo (trading in the PS4) but not getting a 4k capable tv anytime soon. For me games being at 1080p with a solid 60fps and bells and whistles are enough.

 

[bitbydeath]

Re-read that and tell me its not a bunch of complicated anti-consumer horseshit that could be alleived by just waiting a couple of years and releasing a ps5/xbtwo

As long as they play the same games it's really not an issue. Nothing will change for those with the older models, everything will just continue to play out as if the newer models never existed. Seamless.

 

[Lady Gaia]

Can someone break down why this is different than eternal cross gen development.

Unlike cross-gen development:

These systems have the same operating system as their counterparts, developers use the same API, the same tools, and in fact run a common binary built from the same source code with a small subset of conditional code, resources, and shaders. The systems have comparable amounts of memory, ship on disks with the same capacity, and a single purchase runs on the base and enhanced systems.

In short: it's almost nothing like the cross-gen development situation.

 

[mclem]

The reset to zero argument for engine teams and install base hasn't come up enough. That's a big boon for console devs

I'm not sure how you reconcile the 'reset to zero' argument with the claims that 'no games will come out that run on Neo/Scorpio but not the baseline system'. Isn't it a case of one or the other? Either PS5 games run on Neo but not the baseline - rendering the second claim invalid - or they run on neither Neo or the baseline, which would once again result in a reset to zero.

Or I guess PS5 games also run on the baseline PS4, which would be... unpopular, to say the least! Still, it's an interesting theoretical possibility.

 

[Panajev2001a]

It's the single biggest benefit IMO. If we'd had that when PS4 and XB1 launched, we wouldn't have had such a weak first year, with publishers hedging their bets. Continuity of platforms, tools and processes hugely reduces the risk to publishers that a new platform normally brings.

Replaced by a chorus of "games should be looking better, why do they look like unpressed PS3 games?!?" .

 

[Panajev2001a]

Unlike cross-gen development:

These systems have the same operating system as their counterparts, developers use the same API, the same tools, and in fact run a common binary built from the same source code with a small subset of conditional code, resources, and shaders. The systems have comparable amounts of memory, ship on disks with the same capacity, and a single purchase runs on the base and enhanced systems.

In short: it's almost nothing like the cross-gen development situation.

The issue with cross generational development is the fact that you target only a large user base in terms of how much you push your game... hence games targeted PS3 specs with modest PS4 updates and with forward compatibility iOS style you would see the cross generation period widen not shorten.

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

Excited so he can never release Fortnite on them