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[Man God]

Indiegogo just doesn't have the same public image as kickstarter. It just seems seedier, seemingly without any huge funding successes and certainly nothing on this level.

On a personal level describing anything as Metroid like or even worse, metroidvania has become an instant turn off for me. Seemingly every game under the sun these days is described as such and yet never delivers.

 

[Father_Brain]

Even if they'd used Kickstarter, I'm doubtful that there's $1.5 million worth of interest out there in a completely new IP in this genre, especially with a $30 minimum to get a copy of the game.

Exist Archive being a thing probably doesn't help matters, given that VP is one of the main games it's being likened to.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

I think ideally what you want to do is design a game that scales very well with a variety of funding. So you have the low budget version of the game, a mid budget version, a high budget version, a crazy high budget version, etc. and then you create stretch goals that bridge the gaps between these different versions. This is a rather difficult task to begin with, but then it gets even more difficult because you have to set things up so that the game is appealing even in its low budget form so that it feels like it's just constantly getting better as more funding. If you mess this up than you get the death sentence that is "Stretch goal X is for the real game that everybody wants and everything else is pointless."

I can't think of any crowdfunding campaign that really pulls this off well, but if someone managed it, they'd be able to be perfectly honest with their upfront goal while still being able to take advantage of the usual techniques that crowdfunding projects often use to raise far beyond the initial goal.

 

[SolarPowered]

There are a lot of assumptions being made about our budget because of Bloodstained. Most people don't know that Bloodstained's started budget was closer to $5M, because the goal was $500k. So I see a lot of "Why do they need 3X what Bloodstained did?"

You can read in the Indivisible thread on here, too, where people say we're lying about needing the money and that 505 will just fund us anyway. Why? Because that's what Inafune did with Red Ash. So obviously we're trying the same thing.

We go out of our way to dispell these misconceptions in the campaign text, but... most people don't even read it.

One of the reasons why I decided to make the thread and give people another chance to look at the campaign from a different angle.

Re: the IGG funding reasons.
More and more I'm seeing people say "I would totally fund this, but it's on IndieGoGo".
IGG really need to do something about this apparently shaky reputation they have.

It's a shame that despite L0 having all these reasons for picking IGG, that reputation and average people not understanding how IGG works is causing so much damage to the campaign.

Of course the general "lol. Games don't cost 1.5 million" attitude is a whole different problem too.

Some people are definitely holding off on Indiegogo because they still think they need an account when all you need are paypal and an email address. That is a shame and I hope they find out how easy it is to contribute. I'm sure the news will spread.

Yeah, I get that. The disadvantage to ME, the person they are asking from, is that it's taken out immediately. I don't get to plan when its taken out (like I do with KS) so either I have it or a don't. Then I have to wait for a refund if its the project fails. What is I don't get my refund? That's a potential pain in the ass.

To the people they are requesting the money from? It's a disadvantage. And the people are the most important cog here.

Yeah, this might be one of the reasons why some people haven't jumped into the 5k and 7.5k tiers yet. The last days are going to be MASSIVE for this game if we can get past a 1 million dollars with a few days to spare.

I'm staying positive!

I understand the usual crowdfunding curve, but 25% with 25 days to go is a ways, but it's still very much possible. This article will also certainly give the campaign some more attention.

C'mon people, just try out the prototype

Last week was pretty bad. The campaign was struggling to hit a daily average of 13-15k. Now we've had nearly a week of $20,000 days. If the average rises to 25k or 30k next week it'll be awesome.

IGG's deals were also supposed to include a large marketing push on their side, which I think we can now say with relative certainty is insignificant or non-existent.

Maybe it still hasn't kick in? They might kick the campaign marketing into high gear towards the third of the campaign or something. It wouldn't make sense to hold off on the marketing, though. I'll give you that.

They obviously have a very distinctive animated style but I wonder why they didn't try something different this time knowing how much cost and effort it took to produce it for sg.

You've got to play to your strengths in this industry. Their art style and characters really set them apart from everyone else.

If it was on KS they would've had to ask for more though.

I wish the full game tier was a bit less. Even if it was like "First Dibs" with a limited amount of backers.

I donated and want this game made. I believe in the dream.

It would have been offset by the massive audience on kickstarter. It is crazy seeing successful campaigns on KS with 40,000 and 60,000 contributors. That isn't something to sneeze at when Skullgirls has 15,860 contributors on Indiegogo.

They're good for it, and they're getting better at this. If it doesn't work out, we get our funds back. It's a risk I'm willing to take.

In short, stay postive: have Kikuta.

Pretty much. If only the real scam artists were given such a thorough grilling 100% of the time.

This guy has his hands in everything, doesn't he?

Koudelka: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h47k0rb8Gk&index=5&list=PL7B8AEE4F9D6A5F34

Soukaigi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ-2H45WTaw&list=PL74A294E9C891A8C2&index=1

Secret of Mana: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4Kv3ZlvQLw&index=23&list=PL30CA5500906F0A4B

Seiken Densetsu 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BmZrhGVldk&list=PL4649F0DBF0FC09E3&index=2

High budget, niche genre, terribe choice of platform (indiegogo). Never had much of a chance and they are fooling themselves if they think the publisher angle is the reason.

Dunno how much bad the genre can be for this crowdfund when Skullgirls blew up so much. RPGs, beat em ups, sidescrollers and all sorts of other genres have far bigger success on kickstarter, consoles and PC. Fighters on the other hand are small time outside of Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Smash and Tekken. So far there still hasn't been a single million dollar fighting game crowdfund and there hasn't even been a 800k fighter on steam after all these years. Action RPGs seem healthier at a glance.

Indiegogo just doesn't have the same public image as kickstarter. It just seems seedier, seemingly without any huge funding successes and certainly nothing on this level.

They're good for fighters at the very least. Skullgirls, Them's Fighting Herds and Yatagarasu have done very well with them.

 

[Crocodile]

Indiegogo just doesn't have the same public image as kickstarter. It just seems seedier, seemingly without any huge funding successes and certainly nothing on this level.

On a personal level describing anything as Metroid like or even worse, metroidvania has become an instant turn off for me. Seemingly every game under the sun these days is described as such and yet never delivers.

Its almost as if there was a prototype you can play (or watch being played if you don't have the time to play yourself) for you to figure out if you think it can deliver or not. I think its also obvious a lot of people still like those sorts of games or games with elements of that "genre".

Even if they'd used Kickstarter, I'm doubtful that there's $1.5 million worth of interest out there in a completely new IP in this genre, especially with a $30 minimum to get a copy of the game.

Exist Archive being a thing probably doesn't help matters, given that VP is one of the main games it's being likened to.

I'm not sure I understand this rationale. If you like a thing, don't you want more of it? If I like a genre, I don't often think "nah I'm good, I've got one game coming out in X months of uncertain quality, I don't need any other games at any later time in the future". I'm skeptical a lot of people know about Exist Archive at this point anyway (has it even been confirmed for a Western release yet?) and I think both products do an easy job distinguishing themselves.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

Dunno how much bad the genre can be for this crowdfund when Skullgirls blew up so much. RPGs, beat em ups, sidescrollers and all sorts of other genres have far bigger success on kickstarter, consoles and PC. Fighters on the other hand are small time outside of Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Smash and Tekken. So far there still hasn't been a single million dollar fighting game crowdfund and there hasn't even been a 800k fighter on steam after all these years. Action RPGs seem healthier at a glance

The reason why I think it's very niche is you're basically combining three different genres.

1) Action RPG
2) Platformer
3) Fighting Game

Each of those genres can be fairly popular by itself, but by combining the three, you limit your audience to people who like all 3 genres. That's why it's niche.

 

[Man God]

Its almost as if there was a prototype you can play (or watch being played if you don't have the time to play yourself) for you to figure out if you think it can deliver or not. I think its also obvious a lot of people still like those sorts of games or games with elements of that "genre".

All I'm saying is that for me I'm sick and tired of the comparison and it immediately puts me in a skeptical frame of mind. I watched a play through of the demo and while it didn't seem like the sort of thing I'd fund I'd consider getting it if it was released some years down the line.

 

[Messofanego]

Most Kickstarters aren't honest with the real full cost so bravo to Lab Zero Games for sticking it through even if they chose a less popular platform that might end up hurting the crowdfunding but works better for them.

 

[KHlover]

Aftet funding MN9 and watching other crowdfunded games crash and burn like every other week I just don't crowdfund games period.

If an interesting game gets funded and turns out good I'll just buy it on release.

If it doesn't get funded - well my backlog is bigger than it should be so it's not like I'm hurting for games to play.


Best of luck to your campaign regardless.

 

[#sorrynotsorry]

Yes, you should have lied. You're on a funding platform that relies on people believing in you. They need to believe the target is achievable. Some people understand costs, but most of your backers don't. Most of your backers won't even play your demo (I backed and didn't play it).

What you need is to create an illusion. A good trailer, good marketing, and success. It's easy to get more money when you've met your goal and people believe they're backing a sure thing.

IGG also hurts you. It does. People get charged right away. This means people will refrain from purchasing because they don't have money now. Much easier on KS when people can pay later ("I can't afford it now, but I'll save up for it next month so it'll be ok."). Furthermore, IGG just looks less appealing. The site isn't as nice and you're with junkier products. Makes your game look worse just by the company it keeps. KS is where the rich and successful go.

I respect you guys for trying to do it the right way. You sold me on it. But I think a regular KS campaign could have sold me too. And many more.

 

[Edzi]

After seeing Super Best Friends Play play through the demo, I really want to see this game get made. It looks fun, and the focus on south asian mythology could make for some really memorable designs and locations.

Didn't realize it was struggling, but knowing that now I'll definitely chip in a bit. Hopefully word spreads and Lab Zero's efforts are rewarded.

 

[Jigorath]

Raising 1.5m is pretty difficult if you don't have a huge name (Koji Igarashi, Yu Suzuki, Bryan Fargo, etc.) attached to the project, even on Kickstarter it would have had problems. I do hope you guys find a way to fund the project even if crowdfunding doesn't work out. It looks like a gem.

 

[Striek]

My problem with crowdfunding is equity. At what point do successful developers risk their own money? Are backers simply paying to give them better terms with a publisher?

Its not yet a big concern with LabZero but if you look at some outfits like inXile, DoubleFine, Hairbrained or others who soak up alot of the potential backers (a limited resource) and come back again despite already being successful. Always with the same excuses about risks, pre-production, evil publishers etc. instead of simply stating the truth of "we think theres money on the table, we'd like to have it in our pockets instead".

 

[The Yo Tornado]

I will say as someone who waffles a LOT during the crowdfunding process, having my money be taken right away is a bit of a dealbreaker regarding how much I pledge. I've gone from $30 to $150 to everything in between for certain campaigns for a myriad of reasons (mostly that I'm bad with money). I usually end up on the higher end of that range when it's all said and done though.

I'm really hesitant to do that with Indiegogo since I'm locked in once I make a pledge. If something changes regarding my financial situation and I need that money, I'm SOL. Which is fine, as I understand the issue is entirely on my part, but it also prevents me from giving less than I would on Kickstarter. I backed Indivisible for $30, but I can't really in good conscience back more on the off chance an emergency pops up and I need that money back.

 

[Lomax]

People need to quit telling them they need to have lied. Developers lying (or more often just being completely clueless/disingenuous about costs) is what is increasingly giving crowdfunded projects a bad name. Yes, people are deluded about what games cost to make. But forcing more honesty and transparency is what will fix that, not more manipulative shady propositions. The Lab Zero pitch is exactly what all crowdfunded projects should be.

As I've said before, and others in this thread have reiterated, the lack of a viable bottom tier with the game in a $15-$20 range is keeping the impulse donations down and making it hard for the game to gain traction. Even if that price point was PC only and the console downloads were at $30, you'd have a lot more people. There's just been too much bad PR recently, even on successful projects, to expect a new IP with no nostalgia factor to generate interest at these volumes. Honestly, I question how successful the game would be at that price point on release, much less something two years off. The market has changed and the price point for middle-tier games isn't what it once was.

 

[Sinatar]

In addition to the other issues, I suspect the fact that the actual creators of Valkyrie Profile are making their own spiritual successor kind of takes the jam out of this games doughnut.

It'd be like an indie team announcing that they are making an old school Doom style shooter, then out comes Carmack, Romero, Willis and Steed who announce their own.

 

[Imbarkus]

I'm going to have to say I agree with LabZero that an opportunity is being lost here. Crowdfunding services have been employed like crowd-gauging services to the point that the dollar amounts have lost actual meaning.

But what's more, they employ an old product model understanding of gaming revenue. It's a one-and-done proposition, and then you have to return to this well to make another game. Or I guess you could go macrotransaction like Star Citizen, which presents its own set of problems.

There has to be some space here in the patreon/subscription type of model which gives a developer operating revenue, against an episodic or straight-up subscription staggered release.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I feel you on all that, but like all your concerns are addressed in the article and video linked in the OP.

Oh my concerns were of a week ago or so, when game grumps put up their video supporting the campaign. Post video I feel better about it, but I can see why some people would still be hesitant about it who haven't seen the video.

 

[joe2187]

I dont see how IndieGoGo is holding back anybody.

Hell, Thems Fighting Herds just blasted past their goal and is now more than a cool half-mill and growing right now.

And thats a game thats about as fucking niche as you can get.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I think what's hurting the game the most is many things. Crowd funding exhaustion, IGG as a platform, the attempt to appeal to it with what is relatively a niche rpg not many know, the high entry point to own a copy of the game compared to other crowd funded titles, and probably the big funding goal from the get go.

Games that get funded with this high of an initial goal had things like nostalgia backing them up, usually by people who were part of the development team of said nostalgia to begin with.

I loved what I played of VP, and I've enjoyed what I've seen of the demo, but so many factors are against the game being successfully crowd funded.

Another issue might be people with my mentality which is "I don't think it will get fully funded so I'll wait till it's closer to the end date and pledge then if it seems close". And that might have to do with IGG taking money out to begin with (my understanding) unlike KS that only charges you at the end IF it gets fully funded.

I know my attitude isn't helping as it's the same attitude that is preventing the game from being funded, but having my money taken from the get go will do that to my reasoning to back something. I don't want to deal with a refund system.

If I'm mistaken and the IGG method doesn't take money until the end if the game is funded then apologies, somebody correct me and chances are i'd consider pledging even more than currently.

 

[joe2187]

If I'm mistaken and the IGG method doesn't take money until the end if the game is funded then apologies, somebody correct me and chances are i'd consider pledging even more than currently.

Fixed Funding campaign.

Money is only withdrawn from backers WHEN they hit the funding goal. No money is taken from anyone unless the goal is met.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Fixed Funding campaign.

Money is only withdrawn from backers WHEN they hit the funding goal. No money is taken from anyone unless the goal is met.

For some reason I thought fixed funding meant that if the game didn't reach its goal the money would be given back, vs the money staying with the campaign regardless if it reached the goal. Don't know where I got that silly notion.

I'll go ahead and back it, one more person understanding probably won't do a difference but hey, you never know.


edit: fuck i funded without choosing a perk. didn't realize I wouldn't be given an option to pay without choosing one.

 

[AAK]

I did not enjoy the combat system of the prototype. But I still backed as a way to carry forward my purchase and enjoyment of Skullgirls.

I dunno to be honest, if I was to be asked why the campaign is struggling it's because there probably isn't much of a demand for this style of a game.

I also remember that during the Skullgirls Squiggly campaign every email I got when I became a IGG backer had english and Japanese transcripts of the email. Did Indivisible get any marketing towards the Japanese consumers?

 

[DrArchon]

I've seen a lot of comments to the effect of "There's no way they'll make that much money, so why should I bother backing?" I know it's scummy to lie about your development costs and ask for something like $500k when you really need $3.5 mil, but people are a lot more receptive to giving money to something they see as a sure deal. No one wants to back a perceived dud, especially when so many people are confused as to how Indiegogo handles refunds and charging backers.

If I was in charge of this (which thankfully for everyone's sake I'm not), here's what I'd suggest:

Ditch Indiegogo - I know it worked well for Skullgirls, but that was a proven product asking for a lot less. Asking for this kind of money on Indiegogo is like expecting massive sales of your game that you only released on Desura instead of Steam. Kickstarter is the crowfunding market leader like it or not.

Provide meaningful rewards for <$30 backers - People have already mentioned this, but that's because it's true. $30 is a lot of money for some people, and yes I know the final game will cost $30, but having a $5-10 discount for backers, even a limited number of them, would go a long way towards getting more impulse dollars.

Plan for a smaller game with more of the characters, locations, etc. in stretch goals - I know that Lab Zero has a very specific plan for Indivisible. They know how big they want it to be and they don't want to be put into a position where they can only make half or 3/4 of that game, and that's incredibly admirable of them. But at the same time, if they had a smaller vision that could be augmented on with stretch goals, it would really drive down that initial goal and really convince the skeptics out there that this project really is feasible. I really hope the full version of Indivisible gets made, but at the same time I know that if this fails and we get nothing, I'd have rather had a smaller version than nothing at all.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

I don't think they should be telling anyone how making a game works. Everyone likes to forget how Skullgirls was a broken mess longer than it wasn't, but I remember, Mike Z.

 

[Harken Raiser]

I appreciate Lab Zero's honesty about their budget. While it's true that lying about their budget may have gotten them more backers, that's not the kind of behavior consumers should be encouraging, and the practice of misrepresenting how much a game costs to make is exactly why Lab Zero is struggling right now.

I do agree, however, with the view that the prototype may not be that big of a help for the campaign. I backed the project before ever playing the prototype, because I trust Lab Zero and know they can deliver a quality product. Unfortunately most people will decide whether or not to back a project based on screenshots, or a trailer. (I assume) They aren't going to take the time to download the prototype and actually try it for themselves. People are lazy, and the fact that Mike Z had to explain details that are already spelled out on the campaign page shows that.

Also, people are weird when it comes to 2D art and animation. Lab Zeo has delivered what is probably the highest quality 2D animation in the entire industry today, and I've still seen people call it cheep looking. This isn't a case of 'style' either, the quality of their animation is measurably and factually superior to literally any other 2D Kickstarter game getting funded right now.

You omitted perhaps the most important, no nostalgic IP/Pedigree.

... You know what? Lab Zero fucked up. Ravi, you guys should have made a campaign for a spiritual successor to Battlefront 2. Just put Mike Z front and center as: "The Guy That Made Battlefront 2", and you would have made gangbusters off of all the people complaining about the new Battlefront.

 

[7DollarHagane]

I just don't get into crowd funding anymore.

I backed wasteland 2 which was absolute incredible, one of my favorite games I've played this year, and mighty number 9.

My brain also shuts off when I hear "indiegogo" and this time of year is expensive already/ I am backlogged and short on budget even without paying for games that arent made yet.

 

[Jimrpg]

There's a few issues here.

I suppose crowd funding techniques are like anything new. Everybody gets excited at the start and starts backing the shit out of everything even potato salad. Then people get bored and start being more conservative with their money. While skullgirls seems liked a good game, they probably still don't have the pedigree of a industry vet to pull in big dollars so perhaps they should scale back their vision and save some of it for the sequel.

Secondly I agree developing games are not cheap and a very risky proposition for the publisher. Thats why im totally ok with kickstarter backed games working as like a pre-order of sorts so that the developer can get some money to work with as cash flow. I don't understand people who complain about kickstarter used in this way, its probably lead to a lot of games that probably wouldn't have been developed otherwise. So long as the customer gets his money back if there's no product at the end, it makes sense to me. The risk in developing and completing the product (and making a good one) still lies fully with the developer. I'm not even expecting to have a share in the profits so long as I get my product in the end, im happy for the developer to take his rewards. On the other hand, they should maybe consider offering crowd profit sharing. I think Double Fine is doing something like this with FIG?

 

[joe2187]

I don't think they should be telling anyone how making a game works. Everyone likes to forget how Skullgirls was a broken mess longer than it wasn't, but I remember, Mike Z.

Lets take a look at the long road from Skullgirls.

Skullgirls gets released
- had to bump it's release in order to profit and appease publisher (Konami)
- Lacks some basics and a small roster as a result
- Autumn Games gets hit with multiple lawsuits
- Funding for Skullgirls is halted shortly after release.
- The entire Skullgirls development team was laid off by Reverge Labs (nobody has even gotten paid yet)
- Patches and Updates the game were halted by and had to be re-submitted multiple times (which cost nearly $10k per patch back then)
- Fucked over big time by their publisher Konami (No support, had game delisted)

Lab Zero is formed
- Skullgirls fans raise $75k+ for breast cancer research in order to get a main stage spot at Evo. Placing 2nd place in the lineup.

Skullgirls IndieGogo Campaign begins
- Sets goal to make one character for $150K. Reaches past initial goal in less than a day.
- Sets goal for another character, which gets funded.
- consecutively hits every single stretch goal in it's lineup since the campaign start.
- Starts work on promised content
- Delivers content to owners of game free
- produces double the amount of content than was promised, characters, music, stages, voiced story modes, EX modes, ETC.
- Is able to support future updates: Online lobbies, PS4/Vita port and so on.




I think I can trust Lab Zero to not fuck around with my money.

 

[peakish]

I dont see how IndieGoGo is holding back anybody.

Hell, Thems Fighting Herds just blasted past their goal and is now more than a cool half-mill and growing right now.

And thats a game thats about as fucking niche as you can get.

Speaking only for myself, since IGG draws funds immediately I won't back it until my next budget windows opens. But as others are saying, it can be many small factors adding up. There's the extra mental barrier of dealing with a new store front and having to sign up for it, which apparently is not required but how would one know when scanning the project? Less unknowns are always less friction, which can be important when trying for a large crowd's very fickle attention.

Anyway, I don't know, but to me more than anything it seems as if too few people even know about the campaign. Until this EG article I'd only seen it on GAF.

I will back it though, mainly because of how transparent and honest the campaign seems. I like it when campaigns are up front with what appears to be a realistic measure of how much they need to create the base game, and don't set a small goal only to litter the page with stretch goals to get the rest. Plus there's a playable prototype which I tried last week, which didn't really grab me but gave me confidence that the game will happen and be solid.

 

[SolarPowered]

The reason why I think it's very niche is you're basically combining three different genres.

1) Action RPG
2) Platformer
3) Fighting Game

Each of those genres can be fairly popular by itself, but by combining the three, you limit your audience to people who like all 3 genres. That's why it's niche.

Funny how I think the exact opposite. Normally I'm not into turn based combat, but the fast paced battles devoid of menus is fantastic for me. The people who can't play (or who do play for a week and quit) fighters would appreciate the bit of down time there is in the turn based system. As for platforming... a 2D indie game that doesn't do platforming is pretty rare haha. TBH I find the mixing of several genres to be the coolest aspect of the game. I haven't had so much fun with platforming and RPG mechanics in years. The potential for beat em up style gameplay is high once the other items come into play (arrows, chain+sickle and spear). Most of the people watching and playing the demo feel the same way so far.

I will say as someone who waffles a LOT during the crowdfunding process, having my money be taken right away is a bit of a dealbreaker regarding how much I pledge. I've gone from $30 to $150 to everything in between for certain campaigns for a myriad of reasons (mostly that I'm bad with money). I usually end up on the higher end of that range when it's all said and done though.

I'm really hesitant to do that with Indiegogo since I'm locked in once I make a pledge. If something changes regarding my financial situation and I need that money, I'm SOL. Which is fine, as I understand the issue is entirely on my part, but it also prevents me from giving less than I would on Kickstarter. I backed Indivisible for $30, but I can't really in good conscience back more on the off chance an emergency pops up and I need that money back.

You can always up your pledge towards the end of the campaign if you aren't 100% sure about your finances. A lot of people already do that by default even on kickstarter projects where transactions only occur after the project gets full funding.

As I've said before, and others in this thread have reiterated, the lack of a viable bottom tier with the game in a $15-$20 range is keeping the impulse donations down and making it hard for the game to gain traction. Even if that price point was PC only and the console downloads were at $30, you'd have a lot more people. There's just been too much bad PR recently, even on successful projects, to expect a new IP with no nostalgia factor to generate interest at these volumes. Honestly, I question how successful the game would be at that price point on release, much less something two years off. The market has changed and the price point for middle-tier games isn't what it once was.

You are right about middle tier games, but it can be argued that there is more elasticity for indie game pricing than ever as well. A game like this ought to do just fine at a $30 asking price. A $20 early bird tier would have been nice for overseas folk and people with smaller budgets, though.

I dont see how IndieGoGo is holding back anybody.

Hell, Thems Fighting Herds just blasted past their goal and is now more than a cool half-mill and growing right now.

And thats a game thats about as fucking niche as you can get.

That is a sub $500,000 project. There is a million dollar difference between TFH and Indivisible. Even IGG knows this is a very big deal for them. If it is funded it would become the 18th (iirc) biggest video game crowdfund ever.

 

[tim.mbp]

On the other hand, they should maybe consider offering crowd profit sharing. I think Double Fine is doing something like this with FIG?

FIG might be the future of crowdfunding video games, but it's limited right now. SEC rules right now only allow accredited investors ($1 million in assets or $200,000 yearly income). The rules were supposed to be relaxed but Congress as delayed enacting them.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I went ahead and took the plunge but to confirm, yes your money gets taken out immediately. So my initial assumption is right. Also indiegogo makes you contact the owner themselves if you want to fix a pledge. Kickstarter is so much more intuitive at this shit ffs.

 

[Cellsai]

Fixed Funding campaign.

Money is only withdrawn from backers WHEN they hit the funding goal. No money is taken from anyone unless the goal is met.

This is completely wrong.
With all IGG campaigns, money is immediately taken out of your account when you make a pledge. Fixed Funding means that money will be returned to you if the campaign doesn't reach it's goal.

I went ahead and took the plunge but to confirm, yes your money gets taken out immediately. So my initial assumption is right. Also indiegogo makes you contact the owner themselves if you want to fix a pledge. Kickstarter is so much more intuitive at this shit ffs.

Yes, IGG have improved their Pledge system a lot in the last couple of years, but it's still very annoying when stuff goes wrong or someone makes a mistake.
For example, it is possible to upgrade your pledged tier without contacting the campaign organizer now, which was not the case back with Skullgirls.

 

[charlequin]

Fixed Funding campaign.

Money is only withdrawn from backers WHEN they hit the funding goal. No money is taken from anyone unless the goal is met.

Quote directly from their site:

Please note that your credit card or PayPal account will be charged the contribution amount immediately if your transaction was successful, not at the end of the campaign.

Hell, Thems Fighting Herds just blasted past their goal and is now more than a cool half-mill and growing right now.

And thats a game thats about as fucking niche as you can get.

Brony-Fanservice-the-Game struck me as something that was almost assuredly underperforming with 8,000-ish backers and $500k funding, actually.

 

[Messofanego]

Brony-Fanservice-the-Game struck me as something that was almost assuredly underperforming with 8,000-ish backers and $500k funding, actually.

Yeah, I thought bronies were in the millions. Maybe they didn't get the memo.

 

[Skilletor]

That this is struggling hurts my gamer-soul. I backed it, but still haven't played the prototype because I can tell how much I'm going to love it, and I don't want to get hype about something I might never get to play.

 

[Vigilant Gambit]

Lets take a look at the long road from Skullgirls.

Skullgirls gets released
- had to bump it's release in order to profit and appease publisher (Konami)
- Lacks some basics and a small roster as a result
- Autumn Games gets hit with multiple lawsuits
- Funding for Skullgirls is halted shortly after release.
- The entire Skullgirls development team was laid off by Reverge Labs (nobody has even gotten paid yet)
- Patches and Updates the game were halted by and had to be re-submitted multiple times (which cost nearly $10k per patch back then)
- Fucked over big time by their publisher Konami (No support, had game delisted)

Lab Zero is formed
- Skullgirls fans raise $75k+ for breast cancer research in order to get a main stage spot at Evo. Placing 2nd place in the lineup.

Skullgirls IndieGogo Campaign begins
- Sets goal to make one character for $150K. Reaches past initial goal in less than a day.
- Sets goal for another character, which gets funded.
- consecutively hits every single stretch goal in it's lineup since the campaign start.
- Starts work on promised content
- Delivers content to owners of game free
- produces double the amount of content than was promised, characters, music, stages, voiced story modes, EX modes, ETC.
- Is able to support future updates: Online lobbies, PS4/Vita port and so on.




I think I can trust Lab Zero to not fuck around with my money.

This is why I'm so surprised Indivisible isn't already funded. The prototype is amazing, and they've already delivered on literally everything they promised (and more) from their last crowdfunded project.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I've spoken elsewhere about IGG

But I wanted to reply to the "subsidy" distorting budgets and consumer expectations argument. It seems to me that the subsidy argument may be true but this is a poor case example. It's true that a dev pitching a 3.5 million game as a 500k game distorts market expectations... But it's also true that a dev pitching a 3.5 million game as a 1.5 million game distorts market expectations. And using their savings or whatever from their last game to fund early development including a playable prototype.

And that scales down as well. Indies willing to work for beer money distort people who need to pay bills or work a day job. People living in rural Tennessee keep costs down compared to people living in San Francisco. That's a distortion. Or when someone is more or less able to take out a personal loan to advance on the game--Jon Blow being able to double mortgage his house to finish Braid is a distortion!

But this distortion is basically comparative advantage. If you're a team who, for whatever reason, is ABLE to subsidize your project, that's a net good for you and consumers. Your pitch sounds less risky. The game might be the same, but the calculations to pledge to it are not.

It's sad because this looks like an amazing project to me and I really hope it happens. But all else being equal, I do think it'd be more likely to be funded if they had external funding covering more of their project. However it's hard to call that unfair when to me the same project done by a team who couldn't finance the prototype or get the funding commitment from 505 would have had an even higher goal and an even harder time funding.

I challenge someone to find a KS that doesn't have any "subsidy" at all.

 

[Haganeren]

I can really see the point, really. The fact that kickstarter is used more for visibility than budget so people have a misconception about how much everything cost.

But to be honest, maybe it's also because Indiegogo have a lot less visibility than kickstarter... Even kickstarter can not have that much visibility. We are talking about a J RPG Valkyrie Profile style, it's very specific and i fear it's not the cup of tea of a lot of people.

I know the Skullgirl campaign was a success but i wonder if the fighting game niche is more active and "social" than the J RPG one to share this kind of stuff. They also have a lot more competitor in the J RPG crowd. Also, beside Undertale, as an indie J RPG really shaked the public opinion like Shovel Knight has for 8 bit plateformer ? Maybe they are not that confident ?

But i really hope they will succeed, some stuff prevented me to really enjoy Skullgirl as a fighting game but this one is right my alley. I will back that after making an indiegogo account.

 

[Turin Turambar]

Is there ANY game at all that has got $1.5M in IndieGoGo?

 

[SolarPowered]

I can really see the point, really. The fact that kickstarter is used more for visibility than budget so people have a misconception about how much everything cost.

But to be honest, maybe it's also because Indiegogo have a lot less visibility than kickstarter... Even kickstarter can not have that much visibility. We are talking about a J RPG Valkyrie Profile style, it's very specific and i fear it's not the cup of tea of a lot of people.

I know the Skullgirl campaign was a success but i wonder if the fighting game niche is more active and "social" than the J RPG one to share this kind of stuff. They also have a lot more competitor in the J RPG crowd. Also, beside Undertale, as an indie J RPG really shaked the public opinion like Shovel Knight has for 8 bit plateformer ? Maybe they are not that confident ?

But i really hope they will succeed, some stuff prevented me to really enjoy Skullgirl as a fighting game but this one is right my alley. I will back that after making an indiegogo account.

All you need are an email and paypal. No account is required.

Is there ANY game at all that has got $1.5M in IndieGoGo?

No

 

[ArjanN]

Brony-Fanservice-the-Game struck me as something that was almost assuredly underperforming with 8,000-ish backers and $500k funding, actually.

It's not really underperforming and it's not Brony-Fanservice-the-Game either.

 

[Haganeren]

All you need are an email and paypal. No account is required.

Just saw that ah ah. Cool !

Edit : W-Why when i want to take the 60$ USD choice, at the end i must pay 75$ USD ? I must have missed something somewhere.
Edit 2 : The livraison of course

 

[Trickster]

Maybe don't use indegogo?

 

[NEO0MJ]

Yeah, I thought bronies were in the millions. Maybe they didn't get the memo.

The change in direction probably hurt it.

 

[FallenGrace]

Indiegogo hurts it for me as I simply can't afford to pay the money now and I have always used Kickstarter to fund projects in the past which usually allows me to pay after pay day XD

Real shame as the game really appeals to me in every way.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Indiegogo hurts it for me as I simply can't afford to pay the money now and I have always used Kickstarter to fund projects in the past which usually allows me to pay after pay day XD

Real shame as the game really appeals to me in every way.

You can always wait until your next payday before backing this

It ends a week or so after October so you have time.

 

[grumble]

This is why I'm so surprised Indivisible isn't already funded. The prototype is amazing, and they've already delivered on literally everything they promised (and more) from their last crowdfunded project.

Agreed, they are not only trustworthy but a crowdfunding dream. Totally dedicated and above and beyond.

 

[mStudios]

The advantage of Kickstarter is that you can pledge without having the money at the moment, and when the campaign finish, you'll make sure to have the money on your account. There is a lot of people who does this, you need to count them too. I'm pretty sure the developer can wait a few weeks to receive the money.

I'm like 100% sure that if this was on KS the project woulda reach the goals and past it, easily.

It's not really underperforming and it's not Brony-Fanservice-the-Game either.

Didn't the game started as a Brony-Fanservice-The-Game? Pretty sure it was, and still is very inspired on the Pony thing. Knowing how big the Brony thing is, it struggled to reach the 500k goal.