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[Unspeakable Evil]

Comes with every system.

Does not come with every Dual Shock.

Get that feeling too.
Meh, makes no difference to me either way.

 

[RadarScope1]

Casuals aren't buying either system... PERIOD. Casuals that want a console either have a wii u or and 360 with kinect. They aren't the people who buy new systems.


The only system which ever sold well to the casual market in its first 18 months is the Wii... and that was due to how cheap it was. Casuals aren't buying the X1 or PS4 no matter what the camera situation is. There's not even any proof that they are interested in consoles anymore. Kinect software has gone downhill saleswise. The Wii's fall was extremely fast. And the most recent explosions in casual gaming are on tablets and Facebook.


The idea that these people are magically coming back during the launch of a new console is foolhardy. There's absolutely no precedence to the idea that these people are going to drop $400 to $500 for a system just because Kinect 2 is better at tracking than Kinect 1 was.

Good points here. I think this falls I line with the direction Kaz is taking Sony. He seems to be pushing a return to focus. If Sony is reading the tea leaves correctly, watching casuals leave the Wii and Kinect for tablets, then they should be making the best and most focused video game machine on the market. Do that, make it attractive to devs and gamers, and make the cost of entry as easy as possible. They showed what they value but upping the ram. And if famousmoritmer is to be believed, this came at the cost of the camera. In other words: core > mass market.

Because you know else appeals to the masses more? A great price point. I used to think $349 was a fever dream. It's still unlikely but now more than ever I think it's at least possible.

 

[DBT85]

Ohhhh shit, please be true. Hopefully that drops the price by $30 or $50.

I don't understand why people think the PS Eye costs so much for Sony. It's two small camera sensors, 4 mics, a bit of plastic and some string.

In some teardowns the 13mp and 2mp costs for SGS 4 cameras was only $18, and that's a fat 13mp sensor. The PS Eye is using two 1mp cameras and 4 mics.

 

[IvorB]

I'm simply calling it mandatory because at first it wasn't, but now it is. The many who do not like Kinect also view it in this way, and to us, we would prefer having the option of not using it. In this sense, it is indeed inconsiderate of the people who do not want anything to do with Kinect. How is it not? They don't have that choice anymore, if they want the new Xbox. It's either 'deal with it' or don't buy it.

For Microsoft, the Kinect and the Xbox are one. There can be no more separation of them. If you don't like Kinect it would be wise to consider this fact when the time comes to make your buying decision.

 

[User Name Here]

The camera is dead in the water if it's not packed in. Developers aren't going to support it.

I doubt anyone was going to support it even if it was packed in.

 

[Boke1879]

This is probably the best idea, and leads me to believe there will be to SKUs. Personally the only thing I would use the camera for are the streaming and maybe chat capabilities.

I could easily buy the base system and games. Then buy the camera down the line. Hopefully Sony gives us the option to switch out the HDDs

 

[quest]

Right. I was simply responding to his question on what is the biggest cost associated with the PS4. While it isn't exotic, it truly is a representation of AMDs future APU designs.

Actually it is not the future APU designs will be all about full HSA starting with Kavari. This APU is just a giant Temash really. This machine was designed around be easy to work with but budget conscious.

 

[Llyrwenne]

Comes with every system.

Does not come with every Dual Shock.

I'm starting to think this is indeed actually the case. Especially since the Dualshock 4 video is the only one with the 'sold seperately'-statement at the end. I shouldn't have reported this as confirmation.
I still hold out some hope for two SKU's though, one of them without the PSEye.

 

[ironcreed]

For Microsoft, the Kinect and the Xbox are one. There can be no more separation of them. If you don't like Kinect it would be wise to consider this fact when the time comes to make your buying decision.

That is stating the obvious and is part of why I will not be buying one.

 

[Success]

I am guessing that Sony doe snot want to compete with the might of Kinect.
I like the idea, focus on your strengths.

 

[Cheech]

So my question to you is why do you think you understand what will sell and what won't more than a team of marketers and executives at Sony...

599, PSP Go, Vita... We are not dealing with the best and brightest in the business here. You could throw a bunch of monkeys in a room with a dartboard and a bunch of random products and have an equal chance of success.

It all depends on the games and apps that utilize the motion stuff. If Sony isn't packing it in, it's not going to be a focus, which may sound awesome to your gaming brain.

Problem is, plenty of people with kids find the motion stuff compelling. My neighbor watched his kids play Just Dance 4 on Kinect at my house, and based on that he's all in on Xbone. And this dude plays a LOT of PC games, and will no doubt buy stuff like Forza.

It's pretty shortsighted of Sony to not put more emphasis on motion control. From a company who half assed their online for a good 5+ years though, it's not a shock.

 

[Amir0x]

I'm starting to think this is indeed actually the case. Especially since the Dualshock 4 video is the only one with the 'sold seperately'-statement at the end. I shouldn't have reported this as confirmation.
I still hold out some hope for two SKU's though, one of them without the PSEye.

it's no big deal, we'll find out soon either way.

 

[140.85]

I don't think a lot of people (especially hardcore gamers) will care. What they care about the most is the price tag of the system, & if the camera is the cause of the high price tag & Sony takes it out to lower the price, so be it. Some sacrifices have to be made sometime.

Better to wait and see in my opinion. Keep it bundled for the first 6 months, keep the price competitive with XB1 and wait and see how crucial camera-based features become to consumers this gen. They can always offer a stripped down version later if it turns out to be something of a non-starter with folks.

I doubt the price of the cam is high enough to make this a costly gamble.

 

[Seanspeed]

I'm simply calling it mandatory because at first it wasn't, but now it is. The many who do not like Kinect also view it in this way, and to us, we would prefer having the option of not using it. In this sense, it is indeed inconsiderate of the people who do not want anything to do with Kinect. How is it not? They don't have that choice anymore, if they want the new Xbox. It's either 'deal with it' or don't buy it.

You're still treating it as some (potentially)optional accessory. I dont know what else to say.

 

[kittens]

I don't understand why people think the PS Eye costs so much for Sony. It's two small camera sensors, 4 mics, a bit of plastic and some string.

In some teardowns the 13mp and 2mp costs for SGS 4 cameras was only $18, and that's a fat 13mp sensor. The PS Eye is using two 1mp cameras and 4 mics.

I have no clue how much that shit costs, lol. I just don't want to have to pay for it.

 

[quest]

Not smart. Now MS has more to offer in their ad campaign.

It is not like the eye toy can compete with the Kinect 2.0 in the minds of the casuals. I think leaving it out and giving more price flexibility is huge. If the casuals don't buy into the Kinect 2.0 it will be a albatross around the neck of the XBone for the entire generation. I think sony is making the right be going after core gamers/bro-dudes first then worrying about casuals later. The closest the casuals ever got to spending 399.99 on a console day 1 was the Wii and the crazy xmass bundles. I just don't see the XBone being the next Wii and getting the casuals to spend 399.99. The market is different and tablets/phones have captured the casuals.

 

[fiyah]

Sony will figure out a way to make you want to buy the PS Eye. For example, the will value bundle the shit out of it. They want you to have the camera. It's integral to a lot of the social stuff they have planned for the console. Expect a barebones console and a premium bundle that everyone will buy by default and will be more readily available.

 

[famousmortimer]

I never claimed to know that.

Anyways, no offense, but consider me cautious about leaks that get told to us from a user on GAF and gets no media attention elsewhere. Not saying you're wrong, but its not difficult to come up with a theory, spout it as a leak, cross your fingers that you're right and if not, then you've covered your ass with the whole 'it might not be true' escape clause.

I've been leaking stuff for a long time. If I was wrong I would be banned. GAF doesn't take kindly to such things.


I'm not saying this as bragging, just as a statement of fact about the situation. This isn't me crawling out of the woodwork with one guess that ended up being correct. I'm also the guy that told gaf that Knack would be at the February reveal and that Cerny would be on stage... before anyone knew what a Knack or a Mark Cerny was. I have a long history of 'guessing correctly' and I haven't been banned. That's the best voucher for my credibility that I can give.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

The PSEye is bundled in. You don't put a giant lightbar on top of your controller if the functionality for that bar doesn't work right out of the box and for every system.

 

[ironcreed]

You're still treating it as some optional accessory. I dont know what else to say.

LOL, I said 'it was an accessory, but now it's not.' Those of us who had no use for it did not have to buy one and have it hooked up in order to use the 360. Now, it is indeed an integrated part of the system and it will not function at all unless the camera is hooked up. It's simple, really. The people who hate Kinect are now being forced to have one, if they want the new Xbox.

 

[RadarScope1]

Oh man, I just watched the video referenced in the OP. I'm a idiot. Of course the disclaimer is referring the the Eye not being bundled with the controller. It has nothing to do with the console itself.

 

[famousmortimer]

599, PSP Go, Vita... We are not dealing with the best and brightest in the business here. You could throw a bunch of monkeys in a room with a dartboard and a bunch of random products and have an equal chance of success.

It all depends on the games and apps that utilize the motion stuff. If Sony isn't packing it in, it's not going to be a focus, which may sound awesome to your gaming brain.

Problem is, plenty of people with kids find the motion stuff compelling. My neighbor watched his kids play Just Dance 4 on Kinect at my house, and based on that he's all in on Xbone. And this dude plays a LOT of PC games, and will no doubt buy stuff like Forza.

It's pretty shortsighted of Sony to not put more emphasis on motion control. From a company who half assed their online for a good 5+ years though, it's not a shock.

$599 was an awful price to launch with, but it was required due to what was in the box. Sony recovered just fine.

PSP Go and Vita haven't been successes, though the vita is doing much better than salesgaf (which, btw, was just universally panned by every industry person on that Shift documentary as not having a clue how things work...) thinks it is, but yeah - it's not setting the world on fire.


I would still venture to guess that they understand the situation better than you, I, or any other fan who is convinced they know it all.

 

[Ranger X]

A camera never did bring anything of interest in my gaming so I will be happy not to pay for it!

 

[tapedeck]

I would very surprised if the camera wasnt packed in every system. As others have said, I doubt the camera costs Sony more than 15 bucks a pop if that, I doubt it will affect SKU price much at all. Not to mention the space tracking on the light bar on the DS4 requires the camera to work.

I guess if they do have a basic SKU option then at least no one will have anything left to complain about.

 

[140.85]

BTW, is the Skype thing something MS is getting exclusivity on? Is there anything preventing Sony from having Skype for PS4?

Also I think if it is in fact bundled it will make more sense given the "social" aspect of gaming Sony is pushing for PS4. I'm sure there are some ideas they have for the camera to enhance the taking over your game/live streaming features.

 

[lostones]

BTW, is the Skype thing something MS is getting exclusivity on? Is there anything preventing Sony from having Skype for PS4?

Also I think if it is in fact bundled it will make more sense given the "social" aspect of gaming Sony is pushing for PS4. I'm sure there are some ideas they have for the camera to enhance the taking over your game/live streaming features.

MS owns Skype, but the vita has Skype although that deal was made before MS bought them. I doubt Sony could just integrate something like that into their is at the last minute.

 

[Bgamer90]

BTW, is the Skype thing something MS is getting exclusivity on? Is there anything preventing Sony from having Skype for PS4?

MS bought Skype for $8.5 Billion.

 

[famousmortimer]

BTW, is the Skype thing something MS is getting exclusivity on? Is there anything preventing Sony from having Skype for PS4?

Also I think if it is in fact bundled it will make more sense given the "social" aspect of gaming Sony is pushing for PS4. I'm sure there are some ideas they have for the camera to enhance the taking over your game/live streaming features.

MS owns skype. They obviously license it out to other platforms, including the Vita. But I don't expect it on the PS4. Or if it is it will be an app... not the primary means of communication in games.

 

[FlyFaster]

BAM! expecting a lower price point for PS4 then.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I hope so, I don't plan to really use it so whatever gets the console cheaper.

 

[M°°nblade]

I don't understand why people think the PS Eye costs so much for Sony. It's two small camera sensors, 4 mics, a bit of plastic and some string.

In some teardowns the 13mp and 2mp costs for SGS 4 cameras was only $18, and that's a fat 13mp sensor. The PS Eye is using two 1mp cameras and 4 mics.

Aha! I knew I would see you posting here!

I'm just going to say I'm glad Sony seems to agree with me on not bundling the Eyetoy with every basic SKU.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=58565641&postcount=365

 

[SniperHunter]

The only person who pushed EyeToy at Sony was Agent Phil Harrison and now he works for Microsoft.

None of the Sony devs really care about motion gaming anyway

 

[Cidd]

Sounds good to me, I wasn't interested in the PSEye anyways. I hope this makes the price more affordable, $399 please.

 

[DBT85]

MS bought Skype for $8.5 Billion.

That still baffles me.

Aha! I knew I would see you posting here!

I'm just going to say I'm glad Sony seems to agree with me on not bundling the Eyetoy with every basic SKU.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=58565641&postcount=365

It's a PS4 thread, I think I've posted in all of them

 

[Gintoki313]

At least that's one of my worries cleared up. I didn't want that camera and knowing it might not come bundled makes me feel better.

Now my only lasting concern is on the streaming option for games on PS4. I'm curious on how it happens, and how it will affect gameplayer's on youtube. I don't know why many don't mention it but I see that streaming your gameplay videos being a bigger issue then it seems. I can see many people that do let's plays, gameplay videos, and commentary's to have really big issues once this becomes mainstream. Why would I need to stick to those 3 people I'm subscribed to to see a new games gameplay videos, if I can just watch one of the other 1,000 people that probably posted a video on YT using their PS4. I can also see Twitch channels being affected by this too.

Am I the only one that thinks this?

 

[i-Lo]

Comes with every system.

Does not come with every Dual Shock.

I am beginning to be convinced that this is the case as well.

 

[KAL2006]

I can't think of any practical use of a camera in a core game like a action adventure like God of War or Uncharted, or a shooter like Killzone or COD, or a fighter like Street Fighter. A camera is only useful for camera only games , in which case you are better of selling it seperatly if you want to play those types of games.

 

[Ranger X]

MS bought Skype for $8.5 Billion.

Each time I read this I am like WTF. Microsoft now forcing a inferior product on us compared to Live Messenger. Crazy stuff. Can't even cam with 2 people unless its a conference lol.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

Will not including this in the box really make that much of a price difference to the console? Genuine question as I have no clue how much it costs to make. I presume it wouldn't be as advanced or expensive as kinect anyway.

 

[bebop242]

I'm going with the multiple SKUs idea. One has the camera packed in, the other doesn't.

 

[test_account]

599, PSP Go, Vita... We are not dealing with the best and brightest in the business here. You could throw a bunch of monkeys in a room with a dartboard and a bunch of random products and have an equal chance of success.

It all depends on the games and apps that utilize the motion stuff. If Sony isn't packing it in, it's not going to be a focus, which may sound awesome to your gaming brain.

Problem is, plenty of people with kids find the motion stuff compelling. My neighbor watched his kids play Just Dance 4 on Kinect at my house, and based on that he's all in on Xbone. And this dude plays a LOT of PC games, and will no doubt buy stuff like Forza.

It's pretty shortsighted of Sony to not put more emphasis on motion control. From a company who half assed their online for a good 5+ years though, it's not a shock.

Putting more or less emphasis on motion gaming is kinda like the idea you mention about dartboard though. No one can know for sure how successful motion gaming will be in the upcoming ~10 years, so it is pretty much a gamble. It can be successful, and it can not be successful. What you say about games and apps that utilize it is very true indeed, but this also applies to the Vita as well for example.

What do you mean with half assed online for 5+ years by the way?

 

[AgentP]

The PSEye is bundled in. You don't put a giant lightbar on top of your controller if the functionality for that bar doesn't work right out of the box and for every system.

Bad logic, they have said several times there are multiple uses for the light bar, only one uses the camera. They use different colors to identify different players (no camera needed) and they can use the light bar to flash or create ambient light to augment the game (camera not needed).

 

[Cidd]

I can't think of any practical use of a camera in a core game like a action adventure like God of War or Uncharted, or a shooter like Killzone or COD, or a fighter like Street Fighter. A camera is only useful for camera only games , in which case you are better of selling it seperatly if you want to play those types of games.

Maybe for live streaming video chat like the demo they had at the Feb 21st conference.

Which is kinda cool.

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

I'm starting to think this is indeed actually the case. Especially since the Dualshock 4 video is the only one with the 'sold seperately'-statement at the end. I shouldn't have reported this as confirmation.
I still hold out some hope for two SKU's though, one of them without the PSEye.

Still going with the first interpretation, because the second assumes the disclaimer's talking about instances when you buy DS4 separately. Yes. Because people who see the DS4 video might be interested in getting the controller only, without the console itself.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

Maybe for live streaming like the demo they had at the Feb 21st conference.



Which is kinda cool.

If I was going to live stream a game I was playing I wouldn't want people looking at my face.

 

[MogCakes]

I do feel it's worth having the PS Eye in there if it doesn't cost much, as it at the very least enables screen swapping during local multiplayer, which I think is really cool.

 

[DBT85]

If I was going to live stream a game I was playing I wouldn't want people looking at my face.

Watching people play games is fucking amazing. tongues come out, arms flail in despair, rageface occurs.

 

[famousmortimer]

If I was going to live stream a game I was playing I wouldn't want people looking at my face.

Live streams without video of the people playing are considerably more boring. Unless it's wario64.

 

[Cidd]

If I was going to live stream a game I was playing I wouldn't want people looking at my face.

While it may not be for you a lot of live stream presenters use it on twitch and youtube. I can see it being useful to them.

 

[bigace33]

That's excellent news. I'm not interested in Kinect, move, or any other peripheral. Just give me a dope console and some excellent games.