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Face off DmC X1 PS4. Where for art thou AF!

Getting kind a tense their eh buddy :)

It means WHY as in WHY no AF and I spelt it wrong in haste with a space..Doh! can a mode change it please..that should cheer up "techy" here ;-)

I'm just yankin' your chain :D

Before or after that downgraded gameplay video released? :(
There is always hope for the PC version not to be full gimp.
Maybe because it's on UE3.9 ?
I am not sure if all samaritan feeatures actually made it in to UE3.9's public release (the on the fly tesselation and reflection occlusion specifically).
 

MaLDo

Member
In the case of a game like The Order I can see actual performance issues popping up - but a last-gen port of a game with low requirements? That's where it gets weird.


Is DMC framerate locked 60? If not, requirements for the game are not low, whatever the reason for it is.
 

FinKL

Member
Wanted to play this on the X1 controller so this sealed the deal. As I recall, DmC also fared better on 360 than PS3. Has to be the engine?
 

HUELEN10

Member
I'm kinda new to this. I plan to get a PS4 sometime in the next 2 years, but have an Xbox One. I wonder if this gem will be like last for me, when despite being called the weaker console by some, most of the multiplats I am into might be best to get in the Xbox as opposed to Sony's machine.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Is DMC framerate locked 60? If not, requirements for the game are not low, whatever the reason for it is.
From my experience with it, which isn't much, it's pretty much locked. Any dips seem to be isolated to small hitches resulting from new data being streamed in as we've seen in MANY UE3 games over the years.

Strider is something more in line with that statement, though, as it really has very low requirements and never drops frames on XO or PS4 yet completely lacks AF on PS4.
 

HardRojo

Member
The issue is when the Xbox One inexplicably has better AF then the PS4 version of a game, so it's only conceivably an issue with 3rd party games.

In a case like this though, you can point to the PS3 version as having better AF even. But you compare it to something like The Last of Us, a similar last-gen port, which clearly has better AF on PS4 than on PS3, while also updating to 1080p and 60fps, with increased character models and effects on top of that.
u8rwdQx.png


Ditto for Tomb Raider:DE. DMC just doesn't make sense. It has to be an oversight or something similar, because it doesn't make sense.

So TLoU doesn't suffer from this AF problem. Man, I really wish devs came upfront about this issue, it's puzzling.
 

Gbraga

Member
Tell us how you really feel... Don't hold back the rage, lol!

But, seriously I hope we get some answers from devs and/or Sony.

I am, I don't have an Xbox One, and people using the fact that both consoles have bad AF as it means there's no issue is detrimental to solving the actual issue.

I only game on PS4 and PC, so I couldn't care less if the Xbox version has better AF, I just want it to stop being shit on PS4.

Is it asking too much? If it is, I'll certainly understand, I'm not gonna sue sony or some ridiculous bullshit like you see out there if the PS4 can't handle good AF, but people need to stop acting as if it already does so we can get an answer.

They have lost a sale with me over this.

I was on the fence, but I am not paying for blurrier textures than last gen.

You shouldn't pay for sharper textures either, DmC: Definitive Edition is definitely one of the most significant remasters I've seen.

Not graphically, but in content, and not only a GOTY Edition Remaster with all the DLC, but actual balance changes based on community feedback and plenty of new modes only available in this new version.
 
The lack of AF lets the PS4 down, most of the image is smudge. I can't take the PS4 being included in the conclusion. I would go XBO and PC
kcBIjFY.jpg

Looks the same as last gen on PS4

uWidz4U.jpg

Looks worse than last gen, seems more than just AF in places

vOql7Q7.jpg

The carpet is low detail with the character right there,

9qjmk9F.jpg

Detail is robbed due to being darker, not sure if this is giving the impression of a sharper look

G3alhXA.jpg

This looks like some things were left out on PS4

I see character model clothing improved in some cases, it makes the game look sharper in some scenes, some extra blue lighting and extra glow. Some of the skys are blown out where all sky detail completely gone though.
 

Journey

Banned
Huh? where did you get that from?


Waits for the article about how Anisotropic filtering is the most important part of visuals & why it matters.



Maybe my sarcasm detector was malfunctioning, but I took this as you mocking DF and their supposed X1 bias, suggesting DF will now make a big deal about AF and why it's important, when in reality it's a non issue. Did I read that wrong?
 

-griffy-

Banned
That's just because the PS4 is only fighting with 30% of its power.



See, but that's the thing, I might be completely wrong here (you would know if I am, so please correct me), but I don't think anyone looking for stable 30fps on PC would even think about lowering AF for better performance.

If there are performance issues with high values of AF on a console, then it's already an issue with said console, be it hardware or software.

I think the more productive question is "why is AF so bad on consoles, especially PS4?" and not "why are there games where the Xbone has better AF than the PS4?"
You can't directly compare PC to consoles when it comes to AF. You yourself more or less said if 16xAF was free then surely every console game would have it.

The Order is such a graphically intensive game that of any game on consoles, it is one that makes the most sense to have to sacrifice something like AF

The specific issue at play here is when there is a difference between the two platforms, especially when there seems no logical reason for it. That is the issue. Low AF overall on consoles is a different discussion. We know the system is capable of good AF. We know that it isn't a problem for most games to achieve identical AF between platforms (whether that's good, bad or mediocre levels). So the question is: in the games that are inconsistent, why the difference?
 

Newboi

Member
There looks to be an issue with UE3 based ports to the PS4 when it comes to AF. It's hard to believe that it's just developer oversight at this point. There is definitely a more specific reason why this is cropping up in UE3 based titles on the PS4. I wonder if Arkham Knight and MKX will suffer from this since they are both based on UE3?

I'm wondering if the fact that the Xbox One directly supports DirectX is the reason why AF works there (or is supported in higher quality there), but not on the PS4?
 

driver116

Member
If it's not a technical problem, and first party titles are fine, then 3rd party developers are breaking AF deliberately. But why?

PS4 has serious problems in this area and we have no answers at all.

Too many games have AF problems now.

And Sony continue to play dumb. Seriously annoying on their part.
 

LiK

Member
The lack of AF lets the PS4 down, most of the image is smudge. I can't take the PS4 being included in the conclusion. I would go XBO and PC
kcBIjFY.jpg

Looks the same as last gen on PS4

uWidz4U.jpg

Looks worse than last gen, seems more than just AF in places

vOql7Q7.jpg

The carpet is low detail with the character right there,

9qjmk9F.jpg

Detail is robbed due to being darker, not sure if this is giving the impression of a sharper look

G3alhXA.jpg

This looks like some things were left out on PS4

I see character model clothing improved in some cases, it makes the game look sharper in some scenes, some extra blue lighting and extra glow. Some of the skys are blown out where all sky detail completely gone though.

bleh, gonna grab the Xbox One version on sale.
 

HUELEN10

Member
There looks to be an issue with UE3 based ports to the PS4 when it comes to AF. It's hard to believe that it's just developer oversight at this point. There is definitely a more specific reason why this is cropping up in UE3 based titles on the PS4. I wonder if Arkham Knight and MKX will suffer from this since they are both based on UE3?

I'm wondering if the fact that the Xbox One directly supports DirectX is the reason why AF works there (or is supported in higher quality there), but not on the PS4?

It's not just UE3 based stuff, Unfinished Swan looks worse in 8th gen than 7th gen too!
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
If it's not a technical problem, and first party titles are fine, then 3rd party developers are breaking AF deliberately. But why?
That statement implies that there is malicious intent, which I don't believe is the case. They're not deliberately breaking their game.
 

sajj316

Member
Makes no damn sense. It would be nice to get some clarification on why this is consistently happening across multiple devs. I don't see AF being that much of an issue on Sony exclusives. Please Cerny! I need a 2 hour presentation on a fix ..
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Makes no damn sense. It would be nice to get some clarification on why this is consistently happening across multiple devs. I don't see AF being that much of an issue on Sony exclusives. Please Cerny! I need a 2 hour presentation on a fix ..
Hey, Cerny's game had AF...but a lousy frame-rate. Hmmmmmmm
 
The lack of AF lets the PS4 down, most of the image is smudge. I can't take the PS4 being included in the conclusion. I would go XBO and PC

vOql7Q7.jpg

The carpet is low detail with the character right there,
Oof, I thought that most pictures were cherry picked and hardly noticeable but this is really bad. The smudge looks terrible. Yet I don't get why they couldn't afford 2 fps for 16x AF.
 

Journey

Banned
You can't directly compare PC to consoles when it comes to AF. You yourself more or less said if 16xAF was free then surely every console game would have it.

The Order is such a graphically intensive game that of any game on consoles, it is one that makes the most sense to have to sacrifice something like AF

The specific issue at play here is when there is a difference between the two platforms, especially when there seems no logical reason for it. That is the issue. Low AF overall on consoles is a different discussion. We know the system is capable of good AF. We know that it isn't a problem for most games to achieve identical AF between platforms (whether that's good, bad or mediocre levels). So the question is: in the games that are inconsistent, why the difference?


The Order uses a custom tailored engine designed optimally for PS4, and maybe the issue occurs with engines using a different type of renderer that affects the PS4 but not X1, similar to how deffered rendering is not favorable to XBO, meanwhile a forward renderer, despite being a more advanced/modern way of rendering, has better results on XBO.
 

Newboi

Member
Maybe someone can compile a list of evidence and send an email over to the guys at Kotaku?

The big corporations tend to give public responses when larger gaming websites report on the issue.
 

Gbraga

Member
You can't directly compare PC to consoles when it comes to AF. You yourself more or less said if 16xAF was free then surely every console game would have it.

The Order is such a graphically intensive game that of any game on consoles, it is one that makes the most sense to have to sacrifice something like AF

The specific issue at play here is when there is a difference between the two platforms, especially when there seems no logical reason for it. That is the issue. Low AF overall on consoles is a different discussion.

But that's my point. Saying "PS4 can handle AF, ICE guy said PS4 has no trouble with 16xAF, lazy devs" is just bullshit, if the performance cost as the same as it is on PC, every game would have 16xAF, just the very fact that even the ones considered "decent" lack this already points torwards a PS4 thing, you can't say PS4 has no issue with AF if the PS4 has issues with AF.

So what if the Xbox One also struggles with it? That doesn't answer why the PS4 is having problems with AF, even more than Xbox One.

I'm not saying "they owe us 16xAF" (even though it would definitely be nice to have it globally, it's 2015, ffs), just showing that the very fact that games with no AF issues still don't have 16xAF proves that there is indeed a problem with the platforms, it's not just "lazy devs".

I bet if the ones with decent AF had 16xAF, the ones with no AF would have low amounts of AF. That's just me pulling stuff out of my ass though, it's probably not that simple.
 

-griffy-

Banned
If it's not a technical problem, and first party titles are fine, then 3rd party developers are breaking AF deliberately. But why?
I don't think you can make that claim without wild assumption. It seems far more plausible it is an oversight or something similar, whether in their development tools or something else.
But that's my point. Saying "PS4 can handle AF, ICE guy said PS4 has no trouble with 16xAF, lazy devs" is just bullshit, if the performance cost as the same as it is on PC, every game would have 16xAF, just the very fact that even the ones considered "decent" lack this already points torwards a PS4 thing, you can't say PS4 has no issue with AF if the PS4 has issues with AF.

So what if the Xbox One also struggles with it? That doesn't answer why the PS4 is having problems with AF, even more than Xbox One.

I'm not saying "they owe us 16xAF" (even though it would definitely be nice to have it globally, it's 2015, ffs), just showing that the very fact that games with no AF issues still don't have 16xAF proves that there is indeed a problem with the platforms, it's not just "lazy devs".

I bet if the ones with decent AF had 16xAF, the ones with no AF would have low amounts of AF. That's just me pulling stuff out of my ass though, it's probably not that simple.

I never said anything like what you characterize me as saying here though.

I also edited my post to add: We know the system is capable of good AF. We know that it isn't a problem for most games to achieve identical AF between platforms (whether that's good, bad or mediocre levels). So the question is: in the games that are inconsistent, why the difference?
 

KORNdoggy

Member
this so shouldnt be an issue. and yet another capcom release to boot. are they leading on xbox and just not optimising at all on PS4?
 
I got your answer

It's a dev problem not a system problem.

People keep saying this, but it extends across multiple developers, and, as we've seen with Strider, multiple engines. If it was a developer issue I think we'd also be seeing this on Xbox, but we're not. It's raising questions Sony should be addressing, and NOT by just saying "Oh it's the dev's fault"
 

Sohaim

Member
Oof, I thought that most pictures were cherry picked and hardly noticeable but this is really bad. The smudge looks terrible. Yet I don't get why they couldn't afford 2 fps for 16x AF.

yeah, this is not making any sense, i wonder what kind of problem they are facing.
 

LiK

Member
Oof, I thought that most pictures were cherry picked and hardly noticeable but this is really bad. The smudge looks terrible. Yet I don't get why they couldn't afford 2 fps for 16x AF.

the game is absolutely stunning when I played vanilla on PC so seeing it become a blurry mess on PS4 is quite a shame. definitely get PC if you guys can. you don't need the most powerful PC to be able to play it.
 

driver116

Member
I doubt anyone is making their games look worse on purpose.

That statement implies that there is malicious intent, which I don't believe is the case. They're not deliberately breaking their game.

Not malicious, more conscientiously. They're using it as a tradeoff.

IIRC someone in the Theif thread, said the had poor AF as the PS4 version was using some sort of special texturing which gives the impression of stones, bricks etc appearing 3D on the texture. AF was off as this was used instead.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
the game is absolutely stunning when I played vanilla on PC so seeing it become a blurry mess on PS4 is quite a shame. definitely get PC if you guys can. you don't need the most powerful PC to be able to play it.
Well, the issue here is that the game is actually BETTER on PS4 and XO. The PC version is missing out on these improvements for some reason. :\

IIRC someone in the Theif thread, said the devs used poor AF as the PS4 version was using some sort of special texturing which gives the impression of stones, bricks etc appearing 3D on the texture. AF was off as this was used instead.
Well Thief still has severe frame pacing issues (micro-stutter) on PS4 that should NOT exist. It's something that should be EASY to fix but they never bothered. Problems like that force me to doubt that the developers are really paying attention to the performance on a micro level. The performance metrics could tell you there's no problem but looking at frame times and simply using your eyes reveals that there ARE issues.
 
Wanted to finally get a PS4 next month. If this AF fiasco won't be resolved I think I'll pass on this console generation (900p Xbone is no alternative for me) and go PC.
 

Pop

Member
People keep saying this, but it extends across multiple developers, and, as we've seen with Strider, multiple engines. If it was a developer issue I think we'd also be seeing this on Xbox, but we're not. It's raising questions Sony should be addressing, and NOT by just saying "Oh it's the dev's fault"

So what about all the other games on ps4 with AF? Just magic
 

Journey

Banned
Not malicious, more conscientiously. They're using it as a tradeoff.

IIRC someone in the Theif thread, said the had poor AF as the PS4 version was using some sort of special texturing which gives the impression of stones, bricks etc appearing 3D on the texture. AF was off as this was used instead.


Sounds like displacement/paralax mapping.
 

RetroStu

Banned
Well I guess this is tolerable although extremely annoying. 720p for MGSV is completely unacceptable.

Sorry but AF as bad as this looks way worse than lower resolution.

Also i have noticed in the rare cases when the X1 has the better version, people seem to not really care about the differences yet we get 100 page threads when the PS4 version is the better game.

As someone who buys both Sony and Microsoft consoles, its fascinating to see.
 
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