Omotesando
Member
The language almost makes me want to play this game.
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FFT War of the Lions translation sacrifices readability for pretentious prose
- Thread starter fvng
- Start date
its like spoony bard it ages like fine wine
I know, I should have been more clear with that sentence. Smith + Reeder for XII and Reeder for WotL.
fvng
Member
It's a flowery way of saying the same thing, but the original line of dialogue had a more powerful impact... There's a reason that's one of the most popular lines of dialogue from the original. The new translation is cold and lifeless.
You should play it even if the text was in wingdings.
The callousness of the delivery of Delita's line in the original is part of why I like it too though.
I don't feel so. Just very... I keep coming back to Shakespearian.
Like, it feels more like a play. Which is kinda cool.
fvng
Member
Seems like Smith is a good editor for Reeder, in terms of maintaining the readability of the dialogue. XII had a terrific localization, if not the best in the series.
Elegant Prose while being easily understood is a great achievement.
It's popular because it's comically direct. It's not an especially well-written line. In fact, it completely leaves out the idea of birth which is a huge theme in the game.
It is not. It is just more dramatic. Which is not inherently bad, just different.
To be more precise, Reeder left the project shortly after he had recruited Slattery, so if you are looking for someone to blame, Slattery is probably the safer target.
And WoTL is easily understood, even as a younger man I did not have any problem with it. Back then, I just thought it made everything cool and epic.
XII tries to do something entirely, so it is not entirely a fair comparison.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
I had the exact same experience. In a weird way I never really thought of the original game as having much of a story, but WotL completely engrossed me. It boggles my mind that OP could call the re-translation "cold and lifeless" in the face of what we had before.
WotL has fun with words. It steeps itself in the language like few games do.
linko9
Member
Nothing wrong with any of the lines in the OP. Yes they are intentionally archaic (styled after Early Modern English), but all are perfectly correct and stylistically consistent. Of course they're basing their style on writing and applying it to spoken dialog, which can seem stilted, but that just makes it seem like a play to me, which is sort of appropriate.
humansarehorses
Member
Is the reason because people who fondly remember the game were too young to realize how out of place it is for Delita to say "tough" when they first played it?
They definitely didn't
All the ancient dragons in that game speak that way. I've never had a problem with it during Keeper of the Lake either.
I think the more blunt and direct word choice of the original line suits Delita, who is from common origins. The blunt delivery does have more impact too.
The original FFT translation was a bad translation, but the War of the Lions translation butchered ability names and classic FF references. Rafa and Malik's abilities in the Japanese version and original translation heavily referenced terms from Shingon Buddhism, but those references were excised in the PSP version. Likewise, Meliadoul's sword skills had names such as Icewolf Bite or Hellcry Punch in the original translation, which were accurate to the original japanese. They were changed to the very bland Crush Weapon or Crush Helm names in War of the Lions.
"The gods have no eye for chattel" does have less of an immediate impact, but
"You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in
whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the
world drenched in common blood!" more than makes up for it, as far as callousness is concerned.
The only book that I read finished from Shakespeare was Twelfth Night and that was due to taking literature in my high school years.
I don't think I'm well versed to determine whether the new translation does a good job to its script but it has a stylistic identity and convey its message just fine to me. Not once have I felt the plot to be less engaging because of it.
In fact, I love the cutscenes so much.
I don't think I'm well versed to determine whether the new translation does a good job to its script but it has a stylistic identity and convey its message just fine to me. Not once have I felt the plot to be less engaging because of it.
In fact, I love the cutscenes so much.
fvng
Member
The new translation runs the same risk by having the plot get lost in the sauce of self-important impenetrable dialogue
I would love a revision of the WOTL translation that retains the prose while making it an easier read.
yeah i'm not a fan of 'tough' being in there, but the rest of that line is perfect.
PataHikari
Banned
People who call WotL "Shakespearean" trigger me because it's obviously not in any way attempting to imitate Shakespeare.
Also OP I think you're insane to prefer the gibberish of the original translation to something that actually has style.
Also OP I think you're insane to prefer the gibberish of the original translation to something that actually has style.
Yabberwocky
Member
I loooove-love-love the WotL localization, I think the dialogue has a great flow. The voice actors do a beautiful job with it in the cutscenes. That being said, I haven't had the opportunity to play the original localization, so I don't know if something was lost or gained in the changes.
'Tis your faith and birth that wrong you, not I' is of my favorite lines, goddamn. 'Don't blame us. Blame yourself or God' does pack a good punch, though.
'Tis your faith and birth that wrong you, not I' is of my favorite lines, goddamn. 'Don't blame us. Blame yourself or God' does pack a good punch, though.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Yeah, I like it when people in RPGs have normal names like Jeff
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_Doctrine
This post already won the thread
fvng
Member
This is hilarious
Yeah I actually loved that exchange in WOTL, there are definitely moments in the game where I love the dialogue, don't get me wrong
This is like how you shit on someone and they parents with the expectation that they will be too feebleminded to realize that they're being put on blast.
Like, it's hot fire lol
I know a lot of people clearly enjoy it, but man, I really dislike Archaic, Shakespearian, Old English, and anything else that's similiar. I have not once found it to impact my enjoyment of a game's story, plot, lore, characters, etc in a positive manner. It always just comes off as incredibly tedious to me, makes games harder to get through, and can sometimes completely take me out of the world. The absolute worst offenders are games that throw out Thees and Thous left and right.
I'll take modern English with characters given their own flair and personality through that every single time, no matter the setting or time period.
I'll take modern English with characters given their own flair and personality through that every single time, no matter the setting or time period.
Basileus777
Member
WOTL is a big improvement over the PSX translation. Tactics Ogre is a better example of what the OP is talking about, the new translation for that is not only overwrought with bizarre spellings, it reads really dry and detached at times.
A knight from what is essentially the middle-ages speaking modern English would really affect immersion in a story.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
I'm actually glad it exists. I've seen a few people on GAF say unkind words about the revised translation and it led me to believe I might be in the minority for loving it, but if this thread is any evidence I'm clearly in good company.
fvng
Member
WOTL HAS THE BEST WORDS
It's worth noting, that the context and scene itself for the "Blame yourself or God!" line was changed. In the original Delita shouts it over his shoulder as he is fleeing from Agrias so it makes sense for it to be very direct and crass, but in WotL he whispers it to Ovelia as he knocks her out silently.
But yeah, the new translation is far better and fits the game's tone just fine, even if it goes a bit overboard at times. The original was just straight up nonsense at times.
But yeah, the new translation is far better and fits the game's tone just fine, even if it goes a bit overboard at times. The original was just straight up nonsense at times.
Ah, yes, because when I cite Folmarv and Argath, what I mean to say is that Vormav and Algus are everyday names.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Oo, I don't agree with this at all when compared with the old translation. The old one might have some standout memorable lines, but most of them because they're nonsense. The rest of them are just very simplistic and plain.
Perhaps it has more punch, but it does so by sacrificing clarity of meaning and intent. To begin with, he's not even supposed to sound callous there. That being one of the very first lines we get from him heavily colors our impression thereafter.
This is very true. Tactics Ogre has twice the style, and very little of the substance.
I still enjoy the translation, but I would not fight too hard to defend it.
Vampirolol
Member
Just pretend that all characters are Tommy Wiseau.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Oh I agree. It's so chillingly delicious.
The new translation only bothered me in the part right before the Velius/Belias fight. Original was:
WotL was:
I of course died enough times at this boss to have the lines ingrained into my memory, and the change was super jarring. I still think the old line is better in this case. And I do like the parallelism of the first two lines in the original translation.
That said, on the whole I think the new translation is better. For instance, the counterpart to "I am come" in the old version is "Sorry to keep you waiting." Like, seriously? An ancient, Biblical-esque demon shows up and his first line is "Sorry to keep you waiting."?
(original script ; WotL script)
WotL was:
I of course died enough times at this boss to have the lines ingrained into my memory, and the change was super jarring. I still think the old line is better in this case. And I do like the parallelism of the first two lines in the original translation.
That said, on the whole I think the new translation is better. For instance, the counterpart to "I am come" in the old version is "Sorry to keep you waiting." Like, seriously? An ancient, Biblical-esque demon shows up and his first line is "Sorry to keep you waiting."?
(original script ; WotL script)
Neither do I.
Pinko Marx
Banned
You should. FFT is one of the best games of all time, and the best game with the FF title.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Posts like these make me want to replay WotL.
Thanks, OP, for reminding me how great the writing is in this game.
fvng
Member
I think that particular dialogue exchange in WOTL is a great example of when the translators managed to balance readability with flowery language. WOTL doesn't always hit that perfect balance throughout the game's writing
haha!
PataHikari
Banned
The new line has this great sarcastic faux-politness that helps show how far he's fallen.