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[Mephala]

Haha that was cringe worthy. Especially the voice acting.

Some of it was pretty awful but I enjoyed most of it I think. Then again, some of my favourite games have some corny dialogues.
"Your words are as empty as your soul. Mankind ill needs a saviour such as you.

There is no way that isn't a nod. Speaking of Tactics Ogre, I finally picked this up for my PSP. I am pretty excited for it too.

I agree. It definitely is a nod towards FFT. TO is one of my favourites. I prefer it over FFT but they are really both great games in different ways. Enjoy!

Every time I see pictures of this it makes me sad. I wanted to like it so much but the excessive grinding really turned me off of it.

There can definitely be a lot to grind. It is actually one of the reasons I prefer it to FFT. TO just kept on going and going and going. I actually enjoyed grinding up classes to try different strategies later.
For the most part, it is similar to FFT in that a few strategies that are available fairly early can carry you through most of the game so if you only wanted 1 run through for the overall story then you don't really need to grind too much.

 

[BigDes]

Although, if they were really serious about evoking Shakespeare they would have added in some cock jokes.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

lol "I mislike this" is so good.

 

[matrix-cat]

The time is come and so am I

 

[LordKasual]

As an English Major in undergrad, to be honest, WotL (and FFXIV for that matter) never really bothered me that much. In FFXIV's case, you'll find that 2.0 tends to ramble on, but Heavensward (even in NPC conversations) use the language to deliver some actually pretty clever humor.

If you want to see what a true sacrifice of readability is, try reading some drafts of Beowulf.

Speakikng of XIV I think another good example relevant to this thread would be Midgardsormr.

I think the real problem is that Square's translation team just thinks too highly of the typical player's capacity for reading comprehension. There's really no loss of information in this situation, it's just a matter of how explicit it is.

Some players, specifically the "JP faithful" types, get really antsy about this kind of thing. But I personally believe it adds a level of depth to the characters that otherwise didn't exist in the JP translation.

A being that has consciously lived, learned, and spoke for as long as there's been life probably wouldn't speak in a modern, easily understandable dialect.

 

[Venfayth]

I remember misliking the original translation quite a bit and enjoying the WOTL translation a lot more. I decided to look up a more comprehensive comparison and I remain convinced that WOTL is better.

https://dekaja.dreamwidth.org/1675.html

edit: Here are a couple examples of where the WOTL translation provides more explanation although is a bit more wordy.

PS1: It's about time you learned about 'difference'! Different birth, totally different life! It's fate! Neither should've been here! Should've been flower sellers somewhere!
PSP: Is it not time you awoke to the fact that we are different from them? They are of lesser birth, and so meant to play lesser roles in life! Such is the nature of fate, Ramza! That commoner and his sister ought never have been here at all! Had they been mongering flowers on some street corner, she would yet live.

-

PS1: I've taken my whole life for granted. When it came down to it I dropped it all and ran.
PSP: I had lived my life the only way that I had known. But when the pillars of that life came crashing down, I did not stand and watch them fall. I turned, and walked away.

-

PS1: Correct me if I'm wrong... Either way, the girl was to be released anyway.
PSP: Should I? Well, it matters not. There was no question as to her release.

-

PS1: Then Golagros was wrong. But he is with you, correct?
PSP: So, Gragoroth has erred. But surely the girl must hold some connection with House Beoulve?

 

[aeolist]

That is definitely legit old English. Very archaic, but that was the intent.

Sprecaþ gē Englisce?

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Looks like this has been discussed to death already, but I'll just drive-by and say I love the new translation. Honestly, I can't go back to the old now.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

I will forever love the way Matsuno games get localized.

Vagrant Story is still king, IMO, with FFXII and FFT: WotL close behind. The Tactics Ogre one doesn't bug me, but doesn't stand out to me as well either.

 

[MechaX]

Speakikng of XIV I think another good example relevant to this thread would be Midgardsormr.

I think the real problem is that Square's translation team just thinks too highly of the typical player's capacity for reading comprehension. There's really no loss of information in this situation, it's just a matter of how explicit it is.

Some players, specifically the "JP faithful" types, get really antsy about this kind of thing. But I personally believe it adds a level of depth to the characters that otherwise didn't exist in the JP translation.

A being that has consciously lived, learned, and spoke for as long as there's been life probably wouldn't speak in a modern, easily understandable dialect.

I was more following the FFXIV subreddit on this one, but my main issue with the Midgardsormr situation (I say "main issue," but it is not really a significant or big issue in the grand scheme of things) is more of a matter of delivery. The JPN text is definitely very, very blunt and direct, but it makes it so that Midgardsormr's allegiance is not really in question at the time. The ENG version makes Midgardsormr seem more ambiguous (especially with the added laughter at the MC), but a bit more of an asshole.

For the most part, the context still makes sense (Her = Hydaelyn, Gift = Echo). The only thing that the exchange does obscure is the crucial fact that Nidhogg was the one that was rousing the dragons and that Midgardsormr doesn't really want much to do with it, where the ENG conversation makes it somewhat ambiguous at first (although, I believe that Midgardsormr goes on to explain his position immediately afterwards).

With that said, given how the dragon is probably the oldest living thing on the planet, I would totally expect his speech to be like it was in the ENG version.

 

[KrM DeLorean]

Have to disagree with you 100% here op.

 

[ZoddGutts]

Can't stand translations like this either, DQ4 translation was a pain in the ass to read because of it.

 

[Verelios]

What? I personally like 'I am come' as a distinction between who he was and who he became, with his speech patterns changing.

 

[Barrage]

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP, but I can't deny that a large part of my preference for the original translation is painted by nostalgia.

I will defend the SNES FF6 and Chrono Trigger translations to the ends as the earth, tho.

 

[Golnei]

Haha that was cringe worthy. Especially the voice acting.

I didn't mind it that much, but I had to mute the voice acting immediately.

 

[Elaugaufein]

I'm pretty sure WoTL and LUCT are supposed to not sound like natural speech. Both are supposed to sound like someone retelling ancient events of significance: it's supposed to provide the impression of reading like an epic while not being hard to follow.

I remember reading mythology and Arthurian mythos books as a kid / teenager that took a similar style.

 

[Manmademan]

None of your examples seem weird to me, but I read books occasionally.

 

[Jocund]

This is Early-Modern English, not Old English. If the game were written in Old English you would need a list of translated words just to get a basic understanding of what's being said.

And I don't think it's particularly well written.

 

[horkrux]

I actually really like this, I think it's fitting. Doesn't sacrifice readability at all if you're at least half familiar with this kind of language.

 

[aeolist]

This is Early-Modern English, not Old English. If the game were written in Old English you would need a list of translated words just to get a basic understanding of what's being said.

Ic þæt ne undergiete.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Most of it seems fine for the era they're going for. Obviously "I am come" and "mislike" are wrong though.

It isn't. There's precedent of it being used numerous times. Archaic yes, but not wrong.

 

[AuthenticM]

ridiculous

 

[nynt9]

This looks great, thanks OP! I'll purchase this version now as this looks like a really well done translation.

I feel like this one of those instances where a claim of pretension is a stand in for a feeling of inadequacy.

.

 

[Plywood]

The whole exchange between Miluda and Argath was some of the best part to the game.



It's that flow of the conversation and build up to the last line. Fuck Argath.

 

[AuthenticM]

The whole exchange between Miluda and Argath was some of the best part to the game.



It's that flow of the conversation and build up to the last line. Fuck Argath.

god damn that's beautiful

you crazy, TC.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

The whole exchange between Miluda and Argath was some of the best part to the game.



It's that flow of the conversation and build up to the last line. Fuck Argath.

This part is absolutely savage every time I read it. Such a great exchange.

 

[Onemic]

Only like two of those seem out of the ordinary for what the team is trying to go for.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Five pages and no mention of the battle quotes? That's what I missed the most in the WotL retranslation -- they outright removed them!

I'm a little surprised they didn't just fix them , even with the awful OG translations the intent is generally clear given the context.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I can almost see the OP's point. Almost. Flowery, purple prose can certainly look eye-rolling and pretentious.

But in this case? Nah dude. It fits the setting and story perfectly fine, and it's fairly well-written too, making this a far superior experience than the original. Theatrical flair done right can certainly elevate an epic story*. There might be a few odd phrases here and there that are a little overdone, but overall the translation is fantastic and infinitely superior to the clunky, mediocre original PS1 version.

* See also: Legacy of Kain games

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

I never played the game, but the quotes in the OP seem 100% OK. Maybe the mislike line is a little weird.

 

[afternoon delight]

The only thing that bothered me about The War of the Lions was the removal of "Blame yourself or God"

T-t-they removed this?

What possibly could be a better line? It's up there with "what is a man?"

 

[Fou-Lu]

I absolutely love the WotL translation. It fits the tone of the game so well and is a perfect example of a true localization effort instead of a just a translation.

Calling it pretentious is doing it and the English language a disservice.

 

[Megalosaro]

I think in the end of the day, my big problem is the lack of nuance that was applied. The localization team worked too hard to make the text so flowery that they forgot one thing.


Class is a major theme of fft. It is the core of the story's conflict. Having everyone speak in the same overwrought way takes away from that. It would be one thing if the nobles spoke like that. But having the "lower born" characters also use the same manner is away bit of a missed opportunity

 

[tokkun]

I never played the game, but the quotes in the OP seem 100% OK. Maybe the mislike line is a little weird.

The individual lines are fine. The problem with the localization is that it makes almost every line extremely flowery like this. It just becomes too much and starts to feel melodramatic.

Just looking at the examples in the OP, I don't think you see the forest for the trees. You actually have to play the game to understand.

 

[Lothar]

I agree 100% OP. I thought the WotL translation was pretty awful.

Delita: Is our forked tongue done flitting? What I'd hear from your lips are not words!

Overly flowery, pretentious, trying too hard, and doesn't even match the emotion of the scene. Delita shouldn't be so proper here and trying to come up with cute phrases. He should be enraged.

Old Translation
Alma: What Teta said is not true. Actually.........

Ramza: Something wrong with Teta?

Alma: She has been picked on at school because of her rank.

VS

New Translation
Alma: Tietra puts on a brave face, but the truth is not as honeyed as her words.

Ramza: What do you mean?

Alma: She has a hard time of it at school. The others tease her for being low-born

"The Truth is not as honeyed as her words" Doesn't that make you want to groan out loud? Imagine if a Game of Thrones character said this. That would be the most awkward line ever said in the show or book. This is coming from a child, by the way.

Ramza: You'll pardon me my misgivings, but this has not the look of any joyous reunion. To arms!

Rolls eyes. Yeah okay, Ramza, please shut up and don't talk anymore.

 

[tokkun]

I think in the end of the day, my big problem is the lack of nuance that was applied. The localization team worked too hard to make the text so flowery that they forgot one thing.


Class is a major theme of fft. It is the core of the story's conflict. Having everyone speak in the same overwrought way takes away from that. It would be one thing if the nobles spoke like that. But having the "lower born" characters also use the same manner is away bit of a missed opportunity

This is a good point as well.

There is just an overall feeling of superficiality about it. Like the team went in and said, "we're going to try to write all of these lines in Shakespearean English" without thinking about matching it to the character or the context.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

I think in the end of the day, my big problem is the lack of nuance that was applied. The localization team worked too hard to make the text so flowery that they forgot one thing.


Class is a major theme of fft. It is the core of the story's conflict. Having everyone speak in the same overwrought way takes away from that. It would be one thing if the nobles spoke like that. But having the "lower born" characters also use the same manner is away bit of a missed opportunity

It's a stylistic, theatrical choice. It's not trying to emulate the way anyone actually speaks.

Like I'm pretty sure Jean Valjean wouldn't actually be singing all the time but it makes the play more entertaining. Y'know?

 

[LordKasual]

I agree 100% OP. I thought the WotL translation was pretty awful.



Overly flowery, pretentious, trying too hard, and doesn't even match the emotion of the scene. Delita shouldn't be so proper here and trying to come up with cute phrases. He should be enraged.



"The Truth is not as honeyed as her words" Doesn't that make you want to groan out loud? Imagine if a Game of Thrones character said this. That would be the most awkward line ever said in the show or book. This is coming from a child, by the way.



Rolls eyes. Yeah okay, Ramza, please shut up and don't talk anymore.

I just don't understand how you're actually arguing that well-written dialogue with a wider range of vocabulary is somehow considered an awful translation. Nobody is "trying" to be "flowery", it's just how they speak in the setting of the game. I could see if it was inconsistent, but the fact that it isn't seems to grate you as well...

It isn't awkward in the context of the script because everyone does it. Just like cock jokes and allusions to raping / murdering children isn't awkward or shocking in Game of Thrones because they're commonplace themes.

It's almost as if you're getting angry at the translators themselves just for taking the opportunity to do something unique with the English language. Like a student getting angry at a teacher for giving them reading material outside their comfort zone.

*shrug*

 

[Basileus777]

It's almost as if you're getting angry at the translators themselves just for taking the opportunity to do something unique with the English language. Like a student getting angry at a teacher for giving them reading material outside their comfort zone.

This analogy only gets worse every time you repeat it.

 

[Elaugaufein]

This is a good point as well.

There is just an overall feeling of superficiality about it. Like the team went in and said, "we're going to try to write all of these lines in Shakespearean English" without thinking about matching it to the character or the context.

It kinda makes sense though, most of the commoners you actually exchange dialogue with in FFT were actually commanders, church agents, or trying to present themselves as worthy of respect , so them adopting the more flowery speech patterns seems to work.

And Alma speaking in an oddly formal way for a child makes sense too, she was a noble lady being educated along side a Princess.

I'm sure there's a few where it doesn't make sense though.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Every single line in the OP is perfectly readable and immediately understandable and clear. I was expecting illegible Shakesperian quotations and am now disappointed.

I feel like this thread is an unintentional comment on society's unstoppable slide towards functional illiteracy.

 

[dallow_bg]

Nothing really special there, especially if you're a big reader already.
I'm glad this different to most other games.

Step your reading game up.

 

[Murkas]

I agree, speak American morans!

 

[ethomaz]

The translation was pretty well done to be fair... maybe OP is expecting America English that won't fit the game thematic.

Try to play the original in English lol

 

[fvng]

Perhaps your level of exposure to classic literature influences your experience? I much prefer WOTL even if I think it is a little too flowery occasionally.

In general I think it is a preference thing. Kind of like some prefer direct translations over localisations.

I think Tactics Ogre Let Us Cling Together hit the sweet spot of being straight forward enough to be easily understood by everyone while also having plenty of flavour. Also be sure to check it out if you enjoy the flowery battle incantations.

Bonus

You're right I think the prose and flowery language is much better while being way more readable. .. I'm more encouraged to play TO: LUCT.

 

[Skilletor]

I think in the end of the day, my big problem is the lack of nuance that was applied. The localization team worked too hard to make the text so flowery that they forgot one thing.


Class is a major theme of fft. It is the core of the story's conflict. Having everyone speak in the same overwrought way takes away from that. It would be one thing if the nobles spoke like that. But having the "lower born" characters also use the same manner is away bit of a missed opportunity

Everybody doesn't talk the same, though. The dialogue of commoners is very different from nobles. Even gafgarion sounds different from the rest.

You're right I think the prose and flowery language is much better while being way more readable. .. I'm more encouraged to play TT: LUCT.

It is much better, imo. FFT is definitely less subtle.

 

[muteki]

It can bother me in a dual audio situation and what my eyes are reading is way off from what my ears are hearing.

I rarely play fantasy games so I don't run into the same issue as OP that often.

 

[Stranger In The Alps]

Forsooth deare Sire Op, mayhaps the transcription of ye 1st Dragon Quest on thy phone may purport your pleasures true annon for it is the truest of false olde tongue ever put into the codex of such electrical apparatus!

Came here for this. Dragon Quest 2 on mobile does this too, and it absolutely spoiled the game for me. Just makes every line so difficult and clunky to read.

 

[Elven_Star]

This discussion was over when this was posted:

None of your examples seem weird to me, but I read books occasionally.

Also:

Have never seen a post backfire so hard

 

[LordKasual]

I was more following the FFXIV subreddit on this one, but my main issue with the Midgardsormr situation (I say "main issue," but it is not really a significant or big issue in the grand scheme of things) is more of a matter of delivery. The JPN text is definitely very, very blunt and direct, but it makes it so that Midgardsormr's allegiance is not really in question at the time. The ENG version makes Midgardsormr seem more ambiguous (especially with the added laughter at the MC), but a bit more of an asshole.

For the most part, the context still makes sense (Her = Hydaelyn, Gift = Echo). The only thing that the exchange does obscure is the crucial fact that Nidhogg was the one that was rousing the dragons and that Midgardsormr doesn't really want much to do with it, where the ENG conversation makes it somewhat ambiguous at first (although, I believe that Midgardsormr goes on to explain his position immediately afterwards).

With that said, given how the dragon is probably the oldest living thing on the planet, I would totally expect his speech to be like it was in the ENG version.

I understand the frustration, because that whole exchange confused me the first time I encountered it. I just don't think it was worth people complaining about the translation itself, because it was obviously an intentional thing. Midgardsormr is easily the most powerful/important entity you've encountered thus far. Having the player weigh his words and be confused about his full intent seems to be a very clever way to express the gravity of his presence.

Ultimately, i don't mind if a little information or nuance is lost. I have enough trust in the Localization team to know that any lost nuance from the JP version will be compensated in the ENG version along the same lines.

Besides, the more complex you try to be with a language, the more this problem becomes an inevitability. Within a language is alot of history, culture, and modes of thinking, so at some point 1:1 translation is just not a feasible thing. The XIV localization team is aware of this, and they've managed to mold the script of the game to take advantage of both languages separately.