Support NeoGAF

[Dark_castle]

This sounds interesting if it falls more in line with some of the speculation in this thread. I personally love the gambit system, though it does seem rather counter-intuitive from a more casual perspective to introduce programming the moves you will perform.

I think that's because Tabata wants to cater to BOTH casual and hardcore crowd. By having something like Gambit, you can easily play through the main story on a lower difficulty setting without tinkering too much with the setup, but to beat the tough bosses or main story on higher difficulty, you have to delve deep into the Gambit system and what not.

 

[Lady Bird]

I'm talking about the OP. There are two linked. One has diagrams and a clear description of XV's battle system, including the Gambits. Those are all confirmed by Tabata too. The second patent document is less clear, and is a programming patent about recording inputs. I think that could be for Lightning Returns and might not be related to this one. In Sept 2012 when the patent was filed, both of those programmers would have been working on the XIII projects. They aren't on the Type-0 team or the Versus team.

You are right on this one, and that directly invalidates the first half of my analysis (technical details on attacks and timing). Fortunately, that's the least interesting part.

When (if) I get the time later tonight, I'll edit the OP to remove the first part, and make a reading of Tabata's patent text (which I ignored, assuming that it was the same as the one in the other document).

EDIT: Removed the first part, jumping straight to the "gambit" analysis now.
EDIT 2: Cleaned up the OP. I'll make further tweaks later.

 

[Pyramidbread]

I love the sound of this, when I first saw XV at E3 last year, I was worried that the game might be too hack 'n' slash to have any of the traditional RPG elements playing a big part.

 

[Damerman]

You are right on this one, and that directly invalidates the first half of my analysis (technical details on attacks and timing). Fortunately, that's the least interesting part.

When (if) I get the time later tonight, I'll edit the OP to remove the first part, and make a reading of Tabata's patent text (which I ignored, assuming that it was the same as the one in the other document).

EDIT: Removed the first part, jumping straight to the "gambit" analysis now.
EDIT 2: Cleaned up the OP. I'll make further tweaks later.

totally agree, the timing part didn't make sense to me... it didn't fit with the 3d positioning of the player character. If i'm 8 meters away from an enemy, why should i have a window of 8 seconds to pull off the gambit that i assigned? didn't make sense. This is all becoming more clear and that has a positive relationship with my hype

 

[Zukuu]

I immediately thought it works like that, so this is no new information to me and I still don't like it. I want to map my attacks and use them independent from everything. You can still add context sensitive stuff on top. I don't get what is supposedly so hard about for "casual" players to press L1 or R1 or whatever and any of the 4 face buttons in combination for a magic/skill attack or why Square is so against this very intuitive and easy to accomplish system.

 

[Hibiki Kurosawa]

This... I missed this. I like this. Also, I have been looking at and thinking more about the examples in this document and imagining how it will play and I'm really starting to dig it. Hopefully it feels great. I will be anticipating this demo greatly! I still hope we get an in-depth demonstration of the battle system before the end of the year, though.

Spoiler

Believe in Jump Festa!

 

[Kssio_Aug]

The only thing that I ask myself after seing it is, after customizing your deck and gambit system, if you activate everything with the attack button (except warp and defense) what would be mapped on the other buttons? Maybe we can map 2 different gambits or decks on 2 different buttons? Maybe will have a dedicated button to use magic even if you can set them at the gambit system aswell? Or maybe party assitances?

 

[AuthenticM]

Sounds good to me.

 

[Philippo]

So Gambits and Button Mashing (or at least something similar) are back in, what are we missing yet? Control of each party member? I hope that's still in

Also, do you think Noctis cool moves in 2013 trailers are still in?

I remember Nomura saying those were advanced level skills, and tgs trailer seemed to focus on early parts of the game, because those were really awesome.

 

[Lady Bird]

So Gambits and Button Mashing (or at least something similar) are back in, what are we missing yet? Control of each party member? I hope that's still in

No button mashing at all. The focus is on designing a system with a very simplified button input setup.

 

[Damerman]

I immediately thought it works like that, so this is no new information to me and I still don't like it. I want to map my attacks and use them independent from everything. You can still add context sensitive stuff on top. I don't get what is supposedly so hard about for "casual" players to press L1 or R1 or whatever and any of the 4 face buttons in combination for a magic/skill attack or why Square is so against this very intuitive and easy to accomplish system.

who dares wins. and you missed the bit about locking onto a target to cancel contextual priorities.

 

[baekshi]

This isn't an action game.

But it is.

 

[Philippo]

No button mashing at all. The focus is on designing a system with a very simplified button input setup.

Talking about this:

 

[Lady Bird]

I've just added all the additional info in the OP, and cleaned it up.

 

[Damerman]

I've just added all the additional info in the OP, and cleaned it up.

Excellent job man. Will subscrib to this thread. I have a feeling im gonna have to the way this combat is seeming complicated.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Is Noctis the only one that uses various weapons? I curious as to how weapons are utilized in this game and how they relate to the combo system.

 

[Hypemaster]

Holy crap those diagrams, amazing.

 

[Lady Bird]

Is Noctis the only one that uses various weapons? I curious as to how weapons are utilized in this game and how they relate to the combo system.

Good question. It seems like this system applies to all the characters, and in that case, it makes sense if characters can use more than a single weapon. But, there's always the possibility of, say, those characters being stuck to close ranged weapons, and having to rely on abilities or spells to hit enemies from afar. Who knows.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

They should just give us a demo.......allow us to put our fears to rest.

Spoiler

...or realize them

 

[Philippo]

Good question. It seems like this system applies to all the characters, and in that case, it makes sense if characters can use more than a single weapon. But, there's always the possibility of, say, those characters being stuck to close ranged weapons, and having to rely on abilities or spells to hit enemies from afar. Who knows.

Oh God, the idea of managing multiple weapons for multiple characters is already giving me nightmares.
Have you idea what hell entering in a weapon shop is gonna be? lol

 

[Crossing Eden]

I don't dispute that, but it's not going to play along the lines of straight up action games like DMC, Bayo, etc.

It's not a spectacle fighter, but it is an action game. Holding a button down for combo attacks plenty of the time feels less visceral than the opposite.

 

[caffeware]

hmmmm, this is incredibly interesting... hahaha. i'm giggling like a little girl.

so in the gambits he must have used a side step for low level enemies and a dodge roll for high level enemies. this is so fucking crazy right now. Its like a perfect blend of kingdom hearts and Final fantasy XII.

.

To me it seems that this "Gambit System" is brand new; after 2011 trailer new.
I wonder if Hiroyuki Ito has anything to do with this.

 

[ec0ec0]

how many times have you changed the OP!? I noticed 3 times.

Anyway, thanks for your work. After all the chaos generated by those interviews, we really needed a thread like this one.

 

[WGMBY]

This whole system reminds me of a combat system proposed by Peter Molyneux years back (between Fable 1 and Fable 2 I think) where a player character would automatically choose the correct "attack" action when the player pressed a button.

Here's an old article I managed to find. Maybe the talk is around somewhere?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/news220806molyneux

 

[Kssio_Aug]

There's still so many things that I want to know regarding the gameplay! =o

First this part:

Would that be true? None of us may know yet, but and when we compare to what Verendus said?

Those were the controls when he played the demo:

R2 = Teleport
L2 = Fire
L1 = Weapon Switch Mechanic
Circle = Attack
X = Defend
L3 = Movement
R3 = Camera

The question is: considering this (at the OP) is the system SE is using on the game, the attack button will generate a chain of circumstantial movements that you customize. Also, taking in consideration what Tabata said ("The weapon system in the game is treated like a deck. You set weapons on the deck in the menu, and during combat the most appropriate weapon in the deck will be used based on the situation") we may not have L1 to swap weapons anymore either.

So I ask: What about the rest? What kind of actions the buttons square, trinagle, R1, L1, and directionals will activate?
Maybe we will have dedicated buttons to use group assistance, summons, items and other abilities on the fly without using the gambit system?
And will we be able to change the magic elements on the fly, aswell as use them manually?

I'm certain that we still have those kind of abilities too:

Would they only allow us to use them by configuring it on the gambit system?

And maybe we can change the weapons deck in real time, or maybe we really will be able to choose between this gambit system or to use a more manual combat system... I dont know.

I'm pretty confident that we will have a really good combat system by what we could see at the demo trailer and all this discussions about the gameplay, but it seems that there are way much more to it that we still dont know. Can't wait to see it on Jump Festa, it may take longer then it should giving my anxiety.

 

[ec0ec0]

from the OP:

So you can have allied characters only do certain characters if the player character is near them

i guess that thas a mistake, no?

edit:

What about the rest? What kind of actions the buttons square, trinagle, R1, L1, and directionals will activate?

maybe:

Pressing R and L buttons allows you to manually target and priotize targets

thats, at least, two xD

 

[qualitydisc]

In my original OP I tried to link to a text version of the patent but it looks like the link I used was not a permalink. You can still find it by clicking the blue "Next" button at the top until you find " GAME APPARATUS" invented by "TABATA; Hajime ; et al."


Interestingly, there's a more recent patent by Tabata about tracking the progress of missions completed by online parties, but who knows if that's FFXV related or not. Sounds more like Agito. I didn't know for sure if this patent was XV when I posted it on gaf, but I had a hunch. Wasnt confirmed until this week.

 

[Slowdive]

Posted in the other thread but I thought it belonged here as well.

Nomura in 2011 on automatic weapon switching:

Switching between weapons is part of the base action gameplay. For Noctis, you can go into the menu to set him with multiple weapons. These will automatically switch out as you fight. Depending on the weapons you've set, you'll get various combos.

http://andriasang.com/comtqu/nomura_ffxvxiii_famitsu/

 

[duckroll]

Interestingly, there's a more recent patent by Tabata about tracking the progress of missions completed by online parties, but who knows if that's FFXV related or not. Sounds more like Agito. I didn't know for sure if this patent was XV when I posted it on gaf, but I had a hunch. Wasnt confirmed until this week.

That sounds exactly like Agito, where they have this asynchronous multiplayer thing going with various players all contributing to completing missions during events. But it's also something which isn't new and part of social gaming in general, lol.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Posted in the other thread but I thought it belonged here as well.

Nomura in 2011 on automatic weapon switching:



http://andriasang.com/comtqu/nomura_ffxvxiii_famitsu/

Kind of dislike Noctis using many weapons. Takes away from characters having one unique weapon they can upgrade. Tends to be a personality trait in RPGs

 

[Damerman]

Kind of dislike Noctis using many weapons. Takes away from characters having one unique weapon they can upgrade. Tends to be a personality trait in RPGs

well the whole point of noctis and stella/luna is that they are essentially gods... its in the lore that we were introduced to a long time ago.

 

[BlueTsunami]

well the whole point of noctis and stella/luna is that they are essentially gods... its in the lore that we were introduced to a long time ago.

ahhh that makes sense

 

[NateDog]

Very nice OP. I haven't played XII yet (I have planned to for a while though, despite very differing opinions I have received on the game) but this is an interesting read, nice job.