Support NeoGAF

[Elysium44]

Bumping this because i discovered the same problem most likely exists in the actual arcade version of Sega Rally 3.

Recently, a loader was released that let you play some slightly more recent Sega arcades on your PC. This isn't emulation since those games were running on Windows PCs anyway (RingEdge, Europa-R, etc). Even without the loader the games can run by just hitting the .exe. But you need the loader to make them controllable. Also, the games run full speed since the PC hardware they are supposed to run is from the mid 00's.

Anyway, i tested Sega Rally 3, since i have the game on PC and 360. This version of the game supposedly runs at 60fps. And during my test i used RTSS to see the actual numbers. And indeed, the numbers show steady 60fps. But my eyes tell differently. It's not really 60fps, it doesn't run nearly as smoothly. It looks closer to a game running at unlocked 30+fps to me, or at least a game with very bad frame pacing.

So it seems there is no way to play any version of Sega Rally 3 at smooth 60fps. Thanks Sega.

I signed up to comment on this.

I've tried Sega Rally 3 on PC and it DOES run PERFECTLY smooth, it does not suffer from the same stuttering, frametime problem that Revo does.

I would still dearly like to find a solution to getting Revo to work properly though, as it's a more fully-fledged game. I've tried all the solutions suggested, to no avail. The best, or least worst way I've found to play the game is on console, where despite the big downside of being 30fps, there is zero stuttering, ever.

 

[nkarafo]

Bump because i also read from other sources that even Sega Rally 3 arcade has this problem, so i'm not the only one who noticed this.

I can't link the forum because in there exist links of copyrighted material. But some members there are discussing about the same thing in Teknoparrot. Basically it's the same as my experience. All 60fps racing games feel smooth except Sega Rally 3. This one feels more like something between 30 and 60fps with some stutters. It's more consistent than Revo so it doesn't feel as bad and you may not notice it first. But it definently isn't as smooth as the other games i tried on the loader.

Not saying that the actual arcade cabinet is affected by this issue since they may use some weird monitor that syncs to the weird engine (supposedly at 62fps). But damn, there is no way to play the final Sega Rally entry smoothly at home.

 

[Elysium44]

Bump because i also read from other sources that even Sega Rally 3 arcade has this problem, so i'm not the only one who noticed this.

I can't link the forum because in there exist links of copyrighted material. But some members there are discussing about the same thing in Teknoparrot. Basically it's the same as my experience. All 60fps racing games feel smooth except Sega Rally 3. This one feels more like something between 30 and 60fps with some stutters. It's more consistent than Revo so it doesn't feel as bad and you may not notice it first. But it definently isn't as smooth as the other games i tried on the loader.

Not saying that the actual arcade cabinet is affected by this issue since they may use some weird monitor that syncs to the weird engine (supposedly at 62fps). But damn, there is no way to play the final Sega Rally entry smoothly at home.

My experience of Sega Rally 3 on Teknoparrot is it runs flawlessly. Sega Rally PC doesn't. I'm not saying Sega Rally 3 is running flawlessly for you, but I think it's a red herring that the game suffers from the same issue.

My PC specs are i7 4790K and an nvidia GTX 1050 Ti.

 

[Elysium44]

Actually I just tried Sega Rally 3 again to see if anything has changed with the latest Teknoparrot build and I also used Fraps to display the framerate. It is locked at 60, not 62. Smooth as butter throughout.

 

[nkarafo]

I have similar specs. Every other racer runs smoothly for me in Teknoparrot. But Sega Rally 3 doesn't feel the same. It's not as bad as Revo, it's more consistent so it feels smoother than that. But it still doesn't feel as smooth as a proper 60fps racing game. The other games (Initial D, Mario Kart DX, etc) all feel smoother. There's something about it that feels off, at first i even thought it runs at 30fps because i can clearly see the "ghosting" of lines, like how you can see it in 30fps games, due to repeating frames.

Not that i don't believe you. I wish i was able to see this myself, i would love some smooth Sega Rally 3 action.

Maybe a gsync monitor would be able to sync properly, i need to test this if i find someone who has one.

E Elysium
Revo also reports 60fps. Fraps, RTSS, etc all report 60fps. But the game is a stuttery mess. This is not uncommon, it happens with plenty of games that have frametime/frame pacing problems.

 

[Elysium44]

Fair enough, I'm sorry it's like that for you. All I know is the PC version of this game does my head in, I can't bear to play it as the stuttering is so off-putting. I don't have a gsync monitor either, just a cheap ASUS VS248HR.

 

[Elysium44]

I made a video of Sega Rally 3 last year by the way, which somewhat shows the smoothness. I say somewhat because the actual game is still smoother than the video after YouTube re-encodes it, but anyway, may be of interest.

 

[nkarafo]

I made a video of Sega Rally 3 last year by the way, which somewhat shows the smoothness. I say somewhat because the actual game is still smoother than the video after YouTube re-encodes it, but anyway, may be of interest.

I'm not going to take this video as a demonstration of smoothness because it clearly shows frame incosistencies and lots, i mean LOTS of stuttering. It's pretty obvious to me.

This is how 60fps should look like.


And even that isn't great quality. (watch it on Youtube at 60fps obviously)

And it's not just yours. I haven't seen a Youtube vid of Sega Rally 3 yet without stutters and incosistencies during play. So i'm going to assume this issue is the same for everyone, but for some it may be subtle enough to not notice it.

 

[Elysium44]

Yes it's more an issue of nvidia shadowplay I used, not creating a video as smooth as the actual gameplay is, I have the same problem getting a WMMT5 video to be as smooth as the game (also flawless when you actually play it).

The Initial D video there looks as smooth as what Sega Rally 3 does when I play it. I wish I could figure out how to record it properly to demonstrate it though.

 

[nkarafo]

Honestly, i also wish you can record a video of a smooth Sega Rally 3 play and demonstrate it. Because such video doesn't exist yet or i haven't found it at least. I can find smooth videos of any other game on Teknoparrot except Sega Rally. So i hope you understand why i'm almost convinced this i an issue of the game itself and not my system's. Maybe your setup is the exception, i can't know.

 

[drotahorror]

I just installed this after seeing this thread, I don't remember having this issue back when I first bought it.

When I start the game up, it looks like it's in 800x600 res. In the config and in the launcher I have it set to 1080p. Even when I boot the game up, my monitor flickers and says it's 1080p. What can I do?

 

[Elysium44]

Honestly, i also wish you can record a video of a smooth Sega Rally 3 play and demonstrate it. Because such video doesn't exist yet or i haven't found it at least. I can find smooth videos of any other game on Teknoparrot except Sega Rally. So i hope you understand why i'm almost convinced this i an issue of the game itself and not my system's. Maybe your setup is the exception, i can't know.

I've tried again today to no avail. OBS Studio produces bad stuttering, worse than nvidia's recorder. Bandicam seems to produce a perfect video but 5 mins is 3 gigabytes (mp4). Too big to upload on my slow line. I actually re-encoded the video to make the file smaller, but the re-encoded file has a stutter... lol. Anyway I'm convinced the game is 100% smooth, or if not 100% then 99.99%. Whereas Sega Rally PC has a godawful stutter no matter what you do.

 

[nkarafo]

Bandicam seems to produce a perfect video but 5 mins is 3 gigabytes (mp4).

Hate to ask this just to satisfy my curiosity but... Could you maybe upload, like, 30-40 seconds of it? Not the intros or menus, just some footage of driving around for a bit. If you don't that's fine, you don't have to prove anything to me anyway.

drotahorror
I don't have the game anymore unfortunately so i don't know how to help you. Try a lower resolution maybe? Should be good enough to test.

EDIT: I'm downloading the original video source of the first youtube footage ( https://mega.nz/#!JRQ2AbQR!P_ALa38pvOR4isbNjgNrY34YPghHRMNGIgYrPK81-ek ). It seems the arcade used for this video has a modified PC, so is not the original hardware.

I know this is a late reply but the original arcade hardware is actually a modified PC. That's why all these games run in Teknoparrot so well, it's not emulation, they are native windows PC games.

 

[Elysium44]

Hate to ask this just to satisfy my curiosity but... Could you maybe upload, like, 30-40 seconds of it? Not the intros or menus, just some footage of driving around for a bit. If you don't that's fine, you don't have to prove anything to me anyway.

Try this. I did do a bit of the attract mode to see if the 'SEGA RALLY 3' title stuttered after I uploaded it.

It's weird with these videos. If I watch them in Pale Moon (Firefox) these videos stutter a lot. If I watch them in Chrome, they are smoother, so long as I don't set it to full screen.

The original videos are perfectly smooth and I didn't re-encode them (but I know YouTube does). I think YouTube's re-encoding has introduced some stutters which weren't there in the original video.





So I don't think this will help you but I gave it a try. Maybe someone else with the game can chime in and help us all figure this out.

Oh yeah, while running Bandicam which has its own FPS display, I noticed the framerate fluctuated between 60-63. So if that can be relied upon as accurate, then I must be wrong about it being smooth I guess. It can't possibly have a framerate which ever exceeds the refresh rate, and stay smooth. But all I can say is I wish the PC version was like this...

 

[nkarafo]

Thanks for the videos.

But yes, these don't show a smooth result either, but you already pointed that out.

Thing is though, i sense some uncertainty in your last post, like you may be mistaken or you aren't 100% sure, is that correct? Believe me, i'm the kind of guy who is way too sensitive to these things, like i could easily see the 1 double frame every 59 normal ones in Mario Kart WiiU and it did bother me. Call me an elitist asshole if you will (i know i am) but there is no way for me to play a game and not be able to tell you, with 100% certainty, if it's perfectly smooth or not. And no fps program will ever make me question what i see. And in this situation, my only doubt is if it's the same for everyone. As of now, i'm 99% sure that's the case and it's just that most people aren't as sensitive as me.

You also say it's smoother than the PC version. In which i will agree. At least on my computer, the arcade version is at least a bit more consistent so i can play it for a bit. It's more tolerable and more subtle than the home version. So i suspect it can look smooth enough to most people.

 

[Elysium44]

That's right, I could be mistaken. It depends what it is you're seeing in the videos really. It's unscientific because unfortunately videos aren't an exact science and what plays smoothly in my browser won't necessarily do so in yours etc.

If you can see anything more than very minor stuttering in the videos, then it's a problem of video playback, not of the game. The best browser I found to play them smoothly is Microsoft Edge (I hate the browser, but for some reason it plays YouTube 60fps videos better than anything else I've tried).

There's a strange thing with Sega games having odd bugs and oversights. Like the sun missing from the PC and original Xbox versions of OutRun 2006! But present in the PS2 and 360/PS3 versions.

Anyway I will keep this thread saved in the hope someone comes up with a magic solution one day...

 

[nkarafo]

There's a strange thing with Sega games having odd bugs and oversights. Like the sun missing from the PC and original Xbox versions of OutRun 2006! But present in the PS2 and 360/PS3 versions.

Since you mentioned that:



Read the text in the beginning of the video. Have fun

 

[Elysium44]

Since you mentioned that:

Read the text in the beginning of the video. Have fun

Yeah I know, I figured it out before he did - I have some videos on my channel of the fixed sun on both the PC and the original Xbox.

 

[nkarafo]

PC version also lacked bloom effects. And the funny thing is the files were there, just in the wrong folder.