-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Fighting Games Weekly | March 30 - April 6 | High Speed Korean Downloads
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Shuma has an excellent assist, can some what DHC in safely and has raw tag combos that do big damage.
Ryu has great DHC in hypers and his assist is very solid. Just because people don't use him as a support doesn't mean he is bad at it. Honestly compared to Storm you are just trading a usable assist for TACs so that's why I can see how he puts them on the same tier.
Dorm like Karst mentioned has Stalking Flare which makes him at least average. It's not like Spider Man who has crap DHC in moves and crap assists.
Phoenix's assist carries too much risk to be used in the neutral. On paper it's an excellent assist but it's far too risky to be used in any real capacity. And of course you can't "DHC her in". If Phoenix was a real character I would agree that her support value is actually pretty good but with the Dark Phoenix mechanic she is essentially "anti support".
Not sure why Magneto is low on the support value though.
sixteen-bit
Member
anyone ever see this MTV Empire Arcadia thing from 2006? It's only 8 years old but it looks like something that would air in the mid-90s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLBlDODDRkU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLBlDODDRkU
Karsticles
Member
Safe on block?Kars just for you :
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I'd be surprised if they left it as is.Safe on block?
... Or would I?
Damn Capcom, nothing surprises me anymore from you, now!
Team tier list has already been done and has been difficult to dispute:
1) Morrigan/Doom/Vergil (best team in the game)
2) Zero/Dante/Vergil or Zero/Dante/Strider (best Zero team)
3) Magneto/Doom/Vergil or Nova/Doom/Vergil or Wolverine/Doom/Vergil (Doom/Vergil shell)
4) Zero/Vergil/Strider or Doom/Vergil/Strider (Vergil/Strider dual anchor shell)
5) Morrigan/Doom/Strider or Magneto/Morrigan/Doom or Zero/Morrigan/Doom (non Vergil Morrigan/Doom teams)
6) Nova/Strange/Spencer (team Nemo)
7) Magneto/Dorm/Doom (team FChamp or Dormammu team)
8) Viper/Dante/Strider or Viper/Doom/Strider (Viper/Strider teams)
9) Magneto/Doom/Phoenix or Zero/Doom/Phoenix (Phoenix teams)
10) Firebrand/Doom/Ammy or Firebrand/Doom/Skrull (Firebrand teams)
11) Nova/Frank/Dante or Spencer/Frank/Dante or Zero/Frank/Dante (Frank teams)
12) Viper/Doom/Ammy or Trish/Doom/Ammy (Doom/Ammy teams)
Most of these team tier exist because there are top players playing these teams to show their potential. There are other strong teams out there that not enough pro players use that could easily come in the top 15 list. I guess you can say there isn't enough data on them. Like an optimized Trish team, MODOK team, Thor team, RR team (with him at anchor), Viewtiful Joe team etc would certainly make it in and Viscant has said so before.
1) Morrigan/Doom/Vergil (best team in the game)
2) Zero/Dante/Vergil or Zero/Dante/Strider (best Zero team)
3) Magneto/Doom/Vergil or Nova/Doom/Vergil or Wolverine/Doom/Vergil (Doom/Vergil shell)
4) Zero/Vergil/Strider or Doom/Vergil/Strider (Vergil/Strider dual anchor shell)
5) Morrigan/Doom/Strider or Magneto/Morrigan/Doom or Zero/Morrigan/Doom (non Vergil Morrigan/Doom teams)
6) Nova/Strange/Spencer (team Nemo)
7) Magneto/Dorm/Doom (team FChamp or Dormammu team)
8) Viper/Dante/Strider or Viper/Doom/Strider (Viper/Strider teams)
9) Magneto/Doom/Phoenix or Zero/Doom/Phoenix (Phoenix teams)
10) Firebrand/Doom/Ammy or Firebrand/Doom/Skrull (Firebrand teams)
11) Nova/Frank/Dante or Spencer/Frank/Dante or Zero/Frank/Dante (Frank teams)
12) Viper/Doom/Ammy or Trish/Doom/Ammy (Doom/Ammy teams)
Most of these team tier exist because there are top players playing these teams to show their potential. There are other strong teams out there that not enough pro players use that could easily come in the top 15 list. I guess you can say there isn't enough data on them. Like an optimized Trish team, MODOK team, Thor team, RR team (with him at anchor), Viewtiful Joe team etc would certainly make it in and Viscant has said so before.
Karsticles
Member
A few more notes about Shuma-Gorath:
His THC hypers OTG for great team synergy.
Mystic Stare helps him get out if he gets snapped in.
He can TAC glitch without meter like Morrigan and Zero.
He has the only direct hitting assist in the whole game that covers the entire screen. Think about that.
He is a piece of garbage as a point character, but I have come to accept that he is so beautiful at support I will continue to use him. You have to love him like a Phoenix Wright player to use him.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
Huh, thought Fight Night got canceled. Or are they doing something else with the FGC?
Safe on block?
Probably only at certain ranges like Cammy's LK Spiral Arrow.
No idea. After they changed the schedule of Fight Night to the middle of the night for European Viewers (I live in Norway) I lost interest. If anyone could answer Your question about fight night, I would be interested in it too!
Thomasorus
Member
Will not back! ((╬ಠิ﹏ಠิ
Good thing GK got to play Ultra when Boulapoire is in SF: that way I don't get to be jealous of him talking to me about it... ^^
Oh you know Boulap' ? I'm Neithan by the way.
Being french, I can confirm it's true. Won't talk about it, but it's not fake.
Safe on block?
Yup that's it. The range is VERY hard to get. Too far you don't touch, too close you get punished. The slide after teleport is the same.
Thomasorus
Member
Nope we only had the old build. We tested a few things anyway because not everything will change.
By the way this kick :
It's her overhead. Forgot to mention it in the article. I'll write an english resume about all I said in the article as soon as I have time.
By the way this kick :
It's her overhead. Forgot to mention it in the article. I'll write an english resume about all I said in the article as soon as I have time.
Passive Assassin
Member
will be testing dekappa at ncr. lol at triforce and dieminion.
Nope we only had the old build. We tested a few things anyway because not everything will change.
By the way this kick :
It's her overhead. Forgot to mention it in the article. I'll write an english resume about all I said in the article as soon as I have time.
oooooh yeah, right, James Chen mentioned she had an overhead with a crazy range. I wonder if she'll have it in the final build
Huw_Dawson
Member
Is Stunfest worth going to this year? I went to IVGC earlier this year and enjoyed it but it is another £400 for Rennes even though it is far closer than Cannes.
Don't worry, just ask the community to pay for your trip
Ah, was wondering who you were! ^^Oh you know Boulap' ? I'm Neithan by the way.
I don't think we met, but I've seen you on a few streams.
Yeah I know Boulapoire, we used to post on the same forum a while back, and now have some friends in common. I don't see him all too often, but we regularly talk (ie: mock the industry) on gmail.
She wont be playable on that version i believe
Would donate to see Ghandi v FSP FT7.
Thomasorus
Member
Resume from the FR build :
Spinal Arrow can be comboed intro flashkick in corner, even with normal spinal. Does not break armor. Can be done very close to the ground and is safe at the right distance. Flash Kick/Hand goes forward more than you think since it catched Elena's backdash in one of my matches. Gives a lot of meter even on whiff, you need 8 to have a stock. Very unsafe, can be FADC, don't break armor even on EX.
Teleports will be nerfed but you probably noticed the part with zangief in the video where it looks like a cancel of the teleport. In fact you don't have to cancel it, as once you come near the opponent, it stops itself. If you do a cr. MP teleport and nothing, you were safe in this build as showed with zangief. But if you do cr. MP, teleport, then MP to cancel the teleport, you are taking more time than doing nothing, and it's less safe. It will probably get nerfed and explains why combofiend said Decapre was teleporting everywhere on the screen.
The air teleport then normal moves is very floatty as when you do a move, Decapre appears with a slight float/push making it hard to touch as intended, even if it's possible as everyone knew already. The teleport to slide kick is safe when done at the right range. As we all know, these are not projectile invincible, and the teleport to ground poke was not safe at all. About him in EX, you actually don't teleport behind your oppponent unless I didn't understand the move. You teleport in air as if you were doing the HP version, and you have to wait a bit so your character passes behing the opponent, then you press HP to get down and hit.
The hands is unsafe as showed in the video, and the last hit can be focus garded. It does correct chip and since I was not familiar with hundread slaps characters, I didn't do any combos, sorry. ^^
The chara specific combos worked as cammy's, the overhead is fast and hit from very far. I didn't test if it was punishable but I doubt it as you recover very far from your opponent. The target (MP-HK) combo was not cancelable on hit or block and it surprised me, but I think it's just me not paying attention.
About the feeling of the character, it's simple : she's fun. Even when she will be toned down, she will stay fun, because she has so many options you are always trying things with her. I had the feeling I was playing a marvel type character that was adapted to Street Fighter the smart way: using charges moves instead of quarter circle moves. She is not new from a visual standpoint (and that's too bad, because just a new idle pose would have been enough).
Well I think that's all... If you have any question I'll try to answer. Oh and if a news editor wants to copy this, please feel free to do it only if you correct my bad english first. ;p
Stunfest is hella fun but it's a festival about many things : speedruns (cosmo will be here !), gamejam, fighting games (justin wong will come), old arcades, dancing games... It's open to public and a lot of families are coming with children. It's a unique thing that is worth being done one time and I'll be there too on sunday, but it's not a "major" as you think most of the time as the goal is having fun with friends and chilling. It's reflected in the rules as, for example for the team tournament, you have a ratio system to balance a bit the teams. The goal is that everyone has fun and is not crushed.
If you want a more "major" thing, there's the Republic of Fighters 3 two weeks after in Paris, with a MLG qualifier for Smash, and 7 other games. http://republicofighters.basgrospoing.fr/en/ I actually work with them, being in charge of guests.
Spinal Arrow can be comboed intro flashkick in corner, even with normal spinal. Does not break armor. Can be done very close to the ground and is safe at the right distance. Flash Kick/Hand goes forward more than you think since it catched Elena's backdash in one of my matches. Gives a lot of meter even on whiff, you need 8 to have a stock. Very unsafe, can be FADC, don't break armor even on EX.
Teleports will be nerfed but you probably noticed the part with zangief in the video where it looks like a cancel of the teleport. In fact you don't have to cancel it, as once you come near the opponent, it stops itself. If you do a cr. MP teleport and nothing, you were safe in this build as showed with zangief. But if you do cr. MP, teleport, then MP to cancel the teleport, you are taking more time than doing nothing, and it's less safe. It will probably get nerfed and explains why combofiend said Decapre was teleporting everywhere on the screen.
The air teleport then normal moves is very floatty as when you do a move, Decapre appears with a slight float/push making it hard to touch as intended, even if it's possible as everyone knew already. The teleport to slide kick is safe when done at the right range. As we all know, these are not projectile invincible, and the teleport to ground poke was not safe at all. About him in EX, you actually don't teleport behind your oppponent unless I didn't understand the move. You teleport in air as if you were doing the HP version, and you have to wait a bit so your character passes behing the opponent, then you press HP to get down and hit.
The hands is unsafe as showed in the video, and the last hit can be focus garded. It does correct chip and since I was not familiar with hundread slaps characters, I didn't do any combos, sorry. ^^
The chara specific combos worked as cammy's, the overhead is fast and hit from very far. I didn't test if it was punishable but I doubt it as you recover very far from your opponent. The target (MP-HK) combo was not cancelable on hit or block and it surprised me, but I think it's just me not paying attention.
About the feeling of the character, it's simple : she's fun. Even when she will be toned down, she will stay fun, because she has so many options you are always trying things with her. I had the feeling I was playing a marvel type character that was adapted to Street Fighter the smart way: using charges moves instead of quarter circle moves. She is not new from a visual standpoint (and that's too bad, because just a new idle pose would have been enough).
Well I think that's all... If you have any question I'll try to answer. Oh and if a news editor wants to copy this, please feel free to do it only if you correct my bad english first. ;p
Stunfest is hella fun but it's a festival about many things : speedruns (cosmo will be here !), gamejam, fighting games (justin wong will come), old arcades, dancing games... It's open to public and a lot of families are coming with children. It's a unique thing that is worth being done one time and I'll be there too on sunday, but it's not a "major" as you think most of the time as the goal is having fun with friends and chilling. It's reflected in the rules as, for example for the team tournament, you have a ratio system to balance a bit the teams. The goal is that everyone has fun and is not crushed.
If you want a more "major" thing, there's the Republic of Fighters 3 two weeks after in Paris, with a MLG qualifier for Smash, and 7 other games. http://republicofighters.basgrospoing.fr/en/ I actually work with them, being in charge of guests.
ian to the max
Member
Nope we only had the old build. We tested a few things anyway because not everything will change.
By the way this kick :
It's her overhead. Forgot to mention it in the article. I'll write an english resume about all I said in the article as soon as I have time.
Lemme guess, it goes over lows? >_>
Thomasorus
Member
Sorry didn't tested this. :kappa:
Karsticles
Member
Passive Assassin
Member
Cool then!
Awe sadness. Is the input at least forward on the stick? lol
If it's reasonably quick and goes over lows(it looks like it probably does) it'll be a huge pain in the ass. Doesn't matter if she gets no damage from it, being able to move forward like that and be in your face is great. It'd have to be negative as hell to be not useful.
Nabs
Member
ahaha why does this look like some 1995 shit?
Brett Awesome
Neo Member
Decapre needs so much work. That spiral arrow being safe and the crazy fast 3/4 screen overhead need to go, and who knows what else.
Really want to pick up AE after the amount of fun i had at Hypespotting this year but don't even know where to start. Got friends that are tournament level so the local competition isn't a problem, but i just feel that i'll be 6 years behind everyone else.
Really want to pick up AE after the amount of fun i had at Hypespotting this year but don't even know where to start. Got friends that are tournament level so the local competition isn't a problem, but i just feel that i'll be 6 years behind everyone else.
If you have reasonable fundamentals and decent enough people around you, you can pick it up quick. The game is pretty simple until you get into the weird world of things that happens after somebody gets knocked down. Ultra is probably gonna fumble around some MUs too so it won't be that bad. If you're new to this whole fighting game thing, you gotta start somewhere anyways.
I never implied it wouldn't be...useful? I just don't think it's much more than that. It's redundant at this point actually, considering her other overhead options in that video display the same functions (with probable projectile invincibility frames) and the startup frames seem comparable. That GIF makes it look faster than it is - I doubt it's hardly any faster, if at all, than Cody's F. HP which does more damage.
People are talking about it like they know it's going to be some busted move, which is dumb, for myriad reasons.
People are talking about it like they know it's going to be some busted move, which is dumb, for myriad reasons.
How soon are we talking about?
Brett Awesome
Neo Member
Always been a casual Tekken player (i play Yoshimitsu/Ganryu and purposefully don't use tag combos, if that gives away how seriously i take it) but yeah, i love watching SF. Think i've only ever played like 3 rounds of it though, can't even throw a fireball consistently. Watching my friends get top 32/16 the last 2 Hypespotting tournaments makes me realise i'm in the perfect place to learn.
I'm not saying it'll be busted, but it's the kinda move most SF players loathe. Having a move that quick(it's pretty quick) that might go over a low really limits your poking game. I dare you to stick out a low forward or whiff a short looking for a bait. I'm not worried about getting hit by it as an overhead, I'm worried about it making the spacing game super duper annoying. It all depends on if it actually goes over lows (if it doesn't I'd be surprised with that animation) or if it's super minus.
Thomasorus
Member
Yes it's forward MK, but we discovered it not soon before leaving so we didn't thought about testing it a lot. What is interesting is that depending where you are, the kick does not hit on the same animation. If you are close, you hit with the knee and it seems way less safe even if it's still quick. Edit : also it traded with Elena's DP once.
As soon as the intern that messed up the sound of the Decapre video finishes to upload them.
UltraDavid
Member
i dunno, i don't really think decapre looks that great so far to be honest. unless they tweak some of her normals' hitboxes she might get jumped in on pretty easily. so far to me she kinda seems like vega with considerably worse normals, worse damage output, and mildly better mixups, i dunno if that's gonna be a winning combo in very many matchups. we'll see though, i didn't get much time to use her or anything.
also re this triforce news, hot dang that is some stupid stupid stuff
i tested her toward+mk overhead a bit. it didnt go over lows very well tbh, it doesn't jump very high and doesn't stay off the ground for very long either. it's got huge range, but at max range she couldn't link out of it as far as i could tell, and at that same range she can't hit you with any low attacks other than super unsafe scramble-slide, so there isn't much reason to not block high. closer in, yeah, it didn't seem very safe. and if decapre is walking forward, she loses charge for scramble aka most of her mixups and damage potential, so she kinda needs a good overhead imo. i dunno, unless that move is tweaked, seems like it'll be nice but not exactly fantastic.
That move looks like it starts up in no less than 13 frames. I think Fei, Rog, Cody, etc. etc. etc. will be fine.
Dat swag.
I don't think you understand what I'm trying to talk about or you don't really get spacing in SF4.
Yay, fears alleviated. If you can contest it with a low forward then it's probably butt cheeks. I just don't want another "you thought you were playing footsies?" move. SF4 has enough of those.
Thomasorus
Member
David says what I thought: it's not as broken as you imagine. Since the spinal arrow will disapear on ground, she has no instant attack at this distance and you will not get a drill instead of the overhead when having a charge. You will still be able to do an instant air spinal arrow, but it's not a low, so there's no mixup and if you don't place it correctly, it's not safe at all.
She is fun to play and has a lot of options but you can't react to things as you do with cammy, you have to plan a lot since you have to charge moves. It changes the perception of the character once you play her.
She is fun to play and has a lot of options but you can't react to things as you do with cammy, you have to plan a lot since you have to charge moves. It changes the perception of the character once you play her.
I must've missed the memo that says the poking game is restricted to cr. lows/ low-profile hitboxes. Even if that does place a restriction on some characters, it's not like the rewards from the overhead would be enough to deter you from pressing those buttons. That's ignoring the fact that you could press standing buttons that would likely outright stuff it. A non-issue.
UltraDavid
Member
well, it did go over lows, it just had to be timed pretty well. it's not like an ibuki toward+mk or anything. but she doesn't have any other mixups at that range without charge and her other buttons are just meh cammy normals plus way shorter range versions of vega fierce normals. she's gonna be in trouble in the midrange imo. this overhead could end up more like a footsie tool than a mixup, which is fine with me.
The reward of moving that far forward and effectively ending footsies is pretty good for what looks like a rushdown character. And a lot of mid range footsies involve low buttons in this game, hence moves similar to this being annoying. If David's right and the airborne frames suck and her buttons at that range suck then it's fine, they knew what they were doing.
Yeah, exactly what I thought, it'd be a good footsie tool that'd be obnoxious with Cammy buttons like s.HK and such backing her up.