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[The Last One]

“Around that time, I realized that among fans as well, there are people who’ve caught FF disease,” Tabata said.

4Gamer asked what exactly Final Fantasy disease was, and Tabata replied, “It refers to people within the company who can’t imagine anything other than their own view of Final Fantasy. Since the root is a strong self-affirmation, one’s own view of Final Fantasy takes more priority than the team’s success. If that view of Final Fantasy isn’t fulfilled, then they’re convinced that it’s bad for Final Fantasy. They think, ‘Since Final Fantasy is a special team, then we are also special because we are making it. When the new Final Fantasy comes out, everybody is going to be so into it.’ But that’s not the reality of the situation, is it?”

More: http://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-dis..._source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow

Full translated interview: https://forum.finalfantasyxv.com/di...e-tabata-ffxv-translation-compiliation#latest

 

[Nirolak]

I feel this tends to be the issue with the way they structured the IP.

By having each entry be disparate, you end up without a strong internal vision of what the series is actually about, or even products that necessarily have any appeal to the people who liked the previous entry.

For example, Final Fantasy XII was launched in 2006, and anyone who liked that game never received another product that followed up on its ideals to capitalize on the audience they found. This is on top of the fact that game didn't appeal to a lot of people who liked the previous entries.

Had it been a new IP or a Tactics Ogre game instead, they could have kept iterating on it while making something more in line with their (then) recent games for the Final Fantasy series.

I think it's good that they're trying to take in outside feedback and make a game modern consumers actually want, but I don't think this actually helps their fundamental problem if everyone who likes Final Fantasy XV never gets another similar game from Square Enix.

 

[Squire]

XII is a good example in that it really was and should've been a Tactics Ogre game.

Tabata's doing well to continue to dissolve the idea FF is a sacred cow, if nothing more.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

He's not wrong. It's really one of the most frustrating aspects of the fanbase how so many people seem to view each installment being different as a plague instead of something worth appreciating. Funny how last night I found an article where the series being different in each game was in part due to Sakaguchi's distaste for sequels, but it just goes to show how any decision has its pros and cons.

 

[anaron]

while I haven't been terribly fond of Tabata's work, the dude really seems to understand the older mantra to what made the classic games successful.

 

[Toth]

He's not wrong. It's really one of the most frustrating aspects of the fanbase how so many people seem to view each installment being different as a plague instead of something worth appreciating. Funny how last night I found an article where the series being different in each game was in part due to Sakaguchi's distaste for sequels, but it just goes to show how any decision has its pros and cons.

Each game being unique is what makes the series so enjoyable. I love Dragon Quest as a series too but the fact remains that every game is largely the same, with tweaks here and there to the battle system and character progression to keep some freshness.

 

[Boke1879]

I don't know how FFXV will turn out. It could be bad, average or turn out great. I don't know. I've liked what I've played and seen so far. So I'm in.

That said. He's not wrong at all. He understands things needs to change for this franchise going forward. In that regard I have the utmost respect for him.

 

[Deft Beck]

I don't know how FFXV will turn out. It could be bad, average or turn out great. I don't know. I've liked what I've played and seen so far. So I'm in.

That said. He's not wrong at all. He understands things needs to change for this franchise going forward. In that regard I have the utmost respect for him.

In a lot of ways, Square-Enix's reality is based on this fantasy. I am optimistic.

 

[Piers]

This would explain why some heads at Nintendo, particularly Miyamoto, are careful as to how some of the IPs are portrayed, that the 'essence' remains consistent.

 

[TDLink]

I don't really get this mentality. Every FF entry, especially starting on the SNES, has been fairly different. 12 had major gameplay differences but so did 10. And if 12 just had a normal ATB system I don't think anyone would be saying it isn't FF-like. Some FFs are very high fantasy, some are very futuristic, some are closer to our real world, some are very far from it. Everyone has different preferences of which FF is their favourite because of these differences. There isn't really a right or wrong answer though. FF very quickly became a series that was diverse with each entry. And that's how it should be. The bigger problem is in the 90s it was a nearly-annual franchise. Since FFX we've had only 4 mainline games, two of which were MMOs. Because of this not all of the various types of FF are really being serviced. If you didn't like 12 and didn't like 13 and didn't play the MMOs...FF has basically been dead to you for 15 years.

 

[lucebuce12]

I haven't been following FFXV's development as closely as others have but I have to admit that Tabata seems to get Final Fantasy and actually has a lot of respect for it's roots.


And the best part is that he isn't just sticking to what made the previous games great, as varied as they all have been, and is willing to experiment and adapt.

 

[sublimit]

“It refers to people within the company who can’t imagine anything other than their own view of Final Fantasy. Since the root is a strong self-affirmation, one’s own view of Final Fantasy takes more priority than the team’s success.

Sounds like he is talking about Toriyama.

 

[Philippo]

While some may not like Tabata's output (something very understandable), his philosophy, management skills and work attitude are what FF needed for a long time.

After XV i think he should become Producer or heck even Brand Manager for FF.

 

[Xenoblade]

I really feel that this is a weakness for the Final Fantasy games. Like, what actually makes a game a "final fantasy game"?

These days each numbered entry are so radically different from each other, with very few similarities between them aside from the name.

 

[anaron]

While some may not like Tabata's output (something very understandable), his philosophy, management skills and work attitude are what FF needed for a long time.

After XV i think he should become Producer or heck even Brand Manager for FF.

All those drinking sessions with Sakaguchi are paying off, clearly. lol

 

[Lights and Waves]

I really feel that this is a weakness for the Final Fantasy games. Like, what actually makes a game a "final fantasy game"?

These days each numbered entry are so radically different from each other, with very few similarities between them aside from the name.

I think the games being so radically different is what makes them so special, tbqh. If you want games that are just sequel clones, play the Tales series.

 

[artsi]

Sounds like he is talking about Toriyama.

Oh man. Dude wanted to make Final Fantasy like Call of Duty, I hope he doesn't get to be anywhere close to the director's seat in the future.

At least Tabata gets it, thank god.

 

[Saerk]

I don't really get this mentality. Every FF entry, especially starting on the SNES, has been fairly different. 12 had major gameplay differences but so did 10. And if 12 just had a normal ATB system I don't think anyone would be saying it isn't FF-like. Some FFs are very high fantasy, some are very futuristic, some are closer to our real world, some are very far from it. Everyone has different preferences of which FF is their favourite because of these differences. There isn't really a right or wrong answer though. FF very quickly became a series that was diverse with each entry. And that's how it should be. The bigger problem is in the 90s it was a nearly-annual franchise. Since FFX we've had only 4 mainline games, two of which were MMOs. Because of this not all of the various types of FF are really being serviced. If you didn't like 12 and didn't like 13 and didn't play the MMOs...FF has basically been dead to you for 15 years.

Wow! 15 years. I don't play MMOs, missed out on 12, and I didn't like 13, so that's pretty much how long it has been for me. If i didn't borrow my brother's PS2 and play through X it might have been ages since my last FF.

 

[Philippo]

All those drinking sessions with Sakaguchi are paying off, clearly. lol

Climbing the FF power stair one german beer at time

 

[True Fire]

This is definitely a dig at Toriyama.

The narcissism that comes with directing a special property also reminds me of Zack Snyder and Superman in a way. "Since Superman is a special team, then we are also special because we are making it. When the new Superman comes out, everybody is going to be so into it." It can also be applied to Resident Evil, the Star Wars prequels, The Hobbit trilogy, etc. etc.

 

[the_sun_king]

Indeed, the fanbase also has this disease.

 

[Mael]

It's been decades since they've been saying they're trying to break traditions in FF.
FFX was all about breaking them, XII was too, XIII sure was.
Like the only FF where they even began to give a shit about tradition was IX!

 

[Kyzer]

They should have been taking conscious notes of the franchises identity and working / fan favorite core design ideas and themes wayyyy before ffxv

 

[Strangelove77]

I played the FFXV demo - it is a deadly and very dull disease.

 

[GregLombardi]

I know this is my version of the series, but I will communicate it anyway. For me personally, the allure of the series has always been its ability to allow me as a gamer to do 2 things, and 2 things only:

1. change / save the world around me.
2. escape from my current world.

The reason fantasy is so attractive is that it allows us to be immersed in, and live, another life in a completely different world.

IMHO these are the only 2 things each game should attempt to do, other than progressively improve gameplay. Its history has been chaotic in that regard...see how fun FF7 gameplay was vs. FF8, which was boring and repetitive. FF9 improved, and then FFX had more repetitive gameplay again (though better than 8).

They have seemed slightly schizophrenic in this regard.

 

[oSoLucky]

I can understand that people didn't like the 13 games(I didn't care for 12, hopefully we get the IZJS HD remaster at some point). What always got me was that a lot of fans kept saying how 14: ARR was the first game that "felt" like a Final Fantasy in a long time. The fans just make up shit to trash any of the games they don't like. Definitely one of the worst fanbases out there.

Type-0 was his only game that I actually played. I really liked it, if a bit unbalanced(Ace so broken). Were his other games divisive or something?

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

I don't really get this mentality. Every FF entry, especially starting on the SNES, has been fairly different. 12 had major gameplay differences but so did 10. And if 12 just had a normal ATB system I don't think anyone would be saying it isn't FF-like. Some FFs are very high fantasy, some are very futuristic, some are closer to our real world, some are very far from it. Everyone has different preferences of which FF is their favourite because of these differences. There isn't really a right or wrong answer though. FF very quickly became a series that was diverse with each entry. And that's how it should be. The bigger problem is in the 90s it was a nearly-annual franchise. Since FFX we've had only 4 mainline games, two of which were MMOs. Because of this not all of the various types of FF are really being serviced. If you didn't like 12 and didn't like 13 and didn't play the MMOs...FF has basically been dead to you for 15 years.

You are forgetting that Square's President around the time of 12 and 13 decided to make Square a Final Fantasy only company, so you had all the remakes/ports, spinoffs, and eventually mobile games with the brand name.

Even though the main line games were few and far between, the company tried to kill the brand by over saturating the market.

 

[Aarglefarg]

The fanbase also has this disease.

The first sentence in the OP does suggest this.

 

[TDLink]

You are forgetting that Square's President around the time of 12 and 13 decided to make Square a Final Fantasy only company, so you had all the remakes/ports, spinoffs, and eventually mobile games with the brand name.

Even though the main line games were few and far between, the company tried to kill the brand by over saturating the market.

I mean you had mainline FFs (as well as spin-offs) coming out every year before Wada. I don't think it was an oversaturation thing. I just think in his era there was far too much focus on remakes and ports rather than brand new games. Some of the spin-offs ended up being great (Dissidia, for example). Nothing was a classic FF experience or close to it though after X-2. There wasn't a World of FF type game.

 

[Mediking]

Great cutscenes, great music, great diverse cast, fun and interesting combat.... a villain who just won't give up after you slapped him/her/it around.... romance..... = Final Fantasy.

 

[dragonzdogma]

I feel this tends to be the issue with the way they structured the IP.

By having each entry be disparate, you end up without a strong internal vision of what the series is actually about, or even products that necessarily have any appeal to the people who liked the previous entry.

For example, Final Fantasy XII was launched in 2006, and anyone who liked that game never received another product that followed up on its ideals to capitalize on the audience they found. This is on top of the fact that game didn't appeal to a lot of people who liked the previous entries.

Had it been a new IP or a Tactics Ogre game instead, they could have kept iterating on it while making something more in line with their (then) recent games for the Final Fantasy series.

I think it's good that they're trying to take in outside feedback and make a game modern consumers actually want, but I don't think this actually helps their fundamental problem if everyone who likes Final Fantasy XV never gets another similar game from Square Enix.

Final Fantasy always meant the best value for my buck,my way of thinking stopped with Final Fantasy XIII.

 

[Lain]

Type-0 was his only game that I actually played. I really liked it, if a bit unbalanced(Ace so broken). Were his other games divisive or something?

Divisive? I dunno. I didn't like Crisis Core though. It was bad, as far as I'm concerned. Great OST though.

 

[Nosgotham]

Final Fantasy always meant the best value for my buck,my way of thinking stopped with Final Fantasy XIII.

really? i got 180 hours out of ffxiii. the combat was so great and actually engaging when compared to straight turn based shite

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

The thing about Tabata's messaging is this isn't rote Player Bribery. He's not buying us off but assuring something bad ISNT happening. "How" not "what", as it were. It's refreshing.

“Oh yeah, there was,” Tabata said. “It wasn’t only from inside the team, but outside as well. The reason was that if my way of doing it ended up working, there are those whose circumstances will worsen.” (4Gamer noted that Tabata laughed after saying this.)"

“It refers to people within the company who can’t imagine anything other than their own view of Final Fantasy. Since the root is a strong self-affirmation, one’s own view of Final Fantasy takes more priority than the team’s success. If that view of Final Fantasy isn’t fulfilled, then they’re convinced that it’s bad for Final Fantasy."

Never forget. Never ever ever EVER forget.

I think the games being so radically different is what makes them so special, tbqh. If you want games that are just sequel clones, play the Tales series.

TBQH, I figure that's what's kept that series alive and not ending up like Wild Arms and Suikoden and what have you.

 

[Popcicle]

Others have said it, but FF titles, spin offs and numbered titles always depart in major ways. Sometimes more dramatically than before.

While business-wise, to Nirolak's point, this does make it difficult to capitalize on audiences who found the recent entry great. If it doesn't see a sequel people can be disappointed.

Likewise, XIII saw many sequels and many FF fans who didn't like the first entry dismissed them out of hand even if they played differently or tried new things.

I, personally enjoy when FF titles feel/play differently with each addition. I want them to try something new as often as they get the opportunity. The spin-off titles seem to be a good way to both experiment even further, or give a title new life with an iterative change.

The series is approaching its 15th, numbered entry with however many spin-off titles. At this point, FF can be a lot of things to a lot of people. As a fan, I feel that's more important than retaining a sequelized business model, but conveniently enough sometimes that still happens--but it is definitely hard to market that message to the consumers who can't imagine the series changing more than they're comfortable.

It still pains me to hear anyone, even to this day, comment on things like XI/XIV not being real FFs due to their online nature, or XIII not being part of the series cause of its linearity or change in party mechanics.

FINAL FANTASY is a brand that holds some traits, but one thing it seems to consistently do is try something new, either from what others have done in the competitive landscape, or something no one has done. Of course, that's just my perspective so in other words I have the disease

 

[Wagram]

Both demos of XV feel like they have the Final Fantasy disease in them. XV is going to be destroyed if it runs anything close to either of those demos.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

Others have said it, but FF titles, spin offs and numbered titles always depart in major ways. Sometimes more dramatically than before.

While business-wise, to Nirolak's point, this does make it difficult to capitalize on audiences who found the recent entry great. If it doesn't see a sequel people can be disappointed.

Likewise, XIII saw many sequels and many FF fans who didn't like the first entry dismissed them out of hand even if they played differently or tried new things.

I, personally enjoy when FF titles feel/play differently with each addition. I want them to try something new as often as they get the opportunity. The spin-off titles seem to be a good way to both experiment even further, or give a title new life with an iterative change.

The series is approaching its 15th, numbered entry with however many spin-off titles. At this point, FF can be a lot of things to a lot of people. As a fan, I feel that's more important than retaining a sequelized business model, but conveniently enough sometimes that still happens--but it is definitely hard to market that message to the consumers who can't imagine the series changing more than they're comfortable.

It still pains me to hear anyone, even to this day, comment on things like XI/XIV not being real FFs due to their online nature, or XIII not being part of the series cause of its linearity or change in party mechanics.

FINAL FANTASY is a brand that holds some traits, but one thing it seems to consistently do is try something new, either from what others have done in the competitive landscape, or something no one has done. Of course, that's just my perspective

Very well said.

 

[Gurnlei]

It still pains me to hear anyone, even to this day, comment on things like XI/XIV not being real FFs due to their online nature.

Agreed. FFXI had one of my favorite storylines out of any of the main series, and Vana'diel is one of my favorite settings in a game period.

 

[dragonzdogma]

really? i got 180 hours out of ffxiii. the combat was so great and actually engaging when compared to straight turn based shite

Yeah, really ....I played it all the way to the chocobo golden saucer type of place.
I think by that time I had already made up my mind that the game only had one likeable character (Lightning) and the game felt like this 13 hour tutorial, very linear as well.

To be a worthy of a Final Fantasy IMO you need the right 3 ingredients.

*The best imaginative Graphics available
*Lovable Memorable characters
*Game play that revolves around exploration and story/character progression.

Final Fantasy XIII hit only of those bullet points.

On the other hand,

Final Fantasy XV seems to be on the right track, it definitely seems like it will hit all 3 bullet points mentioned.

 

[the_sun_king]

The first sentence in the OP does suggest this.

Womp, goes to show how much sleep I didn't get. I completely glossed over that first sentence.

 

[Dice]

That's what makes Final Fantasy cool to me. I always want to see different shit.

 

[tuxfool]

really? i got 180 hours out of ffxiii. the combat was so great and actually engaging when compared to straight turn based shite

13 was still ATB though, like most Final Fantasy games.

 

[Cimarron]

I agree with him. The FF brand is all over the place in terms of experience. The games are too different for me to have any sort of brand loyalty.

FF6-Loved it!
FF7-Loved it!
FF8-What the hell is this shit?
FF9-Back on track!
FF10- Meh. It's ok I guess.
FF11- Not what I was looking for but a good MMO.
FF12- Meh
FF13-Meh.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

 

[dan2026]

Sounds like they are talking about Lightning.

They continually shoved that character down our throats like she was the best thing ever, even though most people hated her.

 

[Caronte]

To be honest, since Final Fantasy XI I've had major complaints about every new entry, including XV from what I've seen so far, so I can see why it would be difficult for some members of the company to follow one person's vision they do not agree with.

10 years of Final Fantasy XIII is certainly not the way to help with this situation.

 

[MissDeviling]

While some may not like Tabata's output (something very understandable), his philosophy, management skills and work attitude are what FF needed for a long time.

After XV i think he should become Producer or heck even Brand Manager for FF.

Yeah, while I don't think he's a very strong director, he certainly understands what the FF brand needs. Hopefully he'll get that kind of position in the future.

 

[Ripenen]

What he talks about sounds indicative of lack of leadership and/or poorly communicated goals.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

It's like the Sonic fanbase where you have some people who prefer the old-school 2D games, some who like the newer 3D games, and it's impossible to please everyone but Sega keeps trying, even to the extent of having games that are both 2D & 3D depending on the stage.

Final Fantasy is even worse in this regard in that you basically have the old-school games (FF1 & 3-6) fanbase, the MMORPG fanbase, and then every other game in the series is pretty much its own thing with its own fanbase. Other than maybe FF13 with FF13-2, nothing really gets a true sequel (FFX & FFX-2 are VERY different beasts in both gameplay & style). There's really no way to appeal to every fanbase. And with FF15, it looks like they're abandoning every existing FF fanbase & trying to start over with a "modern" fanbase (big open world, action-oriented combat, etc.).

 

[wmlk]

Very good on him for calling out the elephant in the room.