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Fired for using personal days?

T

TaterTots

Banned
If some of you look at my previous threads you'll see I've been having issues with my most recent employer. To the point I'm looking for other work.

Well, I went back for a few weeks without any issue, but I received an email saying my personal days would expire at the end of the year. My fiance is a teacher on fall break, so I decided to use them now. A few hours ago I received a voicemail from my employer telling me I'm fired and to turn in my equipment or I'll be charged for it. First of all, my equipment is there. Secondly, I used personal days I had stacked and was told would expire.

I was fired via voicemail for missing too many days. This sounds really weird to me. How can I be let go for being notified to do such a thing? Also, for those not wanting to look at my history, I work at a call center.

Is this legal? I've been calling and sending emails over and over only to be ignored.

EDIT; I'm in the U.S.

EDIT #2; Update for those wondering. I'm settled in. This morning I had an interview and the job was extended on the spot. Mon. I have to go take a drug test that's scheduled. Good news is that it pays over $4 more an hour than I was making previously. I feel really fortunate and lucky. To all of those who quoted me, I do apologize I didn't respond, but I was super stressed out and didn't wan't to deal with judgement.

For those of you who pm'ed me, I really appreciate the support. Also, I appreciate the people wishing me the best in this thread. Thanks a lot.
 
N

norm9

Member
How much leeway did you give before requesting the time? Most places frown upon and straight up deny time off if it's not requested ahead of time. My workplace requires I beleive two weeks beforehand as a minimum.

Eta- sounds fucked up regardless.
 
L

LumpOfCole

Member
If you work at a call center in an at-will state, your employment can and will be terminated for just breathing the wrong way. That's a literal possibility - a caller might not like the way you breathe, put that in the comment card, and that negative review can result in a termination.

I wish you good luck in finding a new and better job quickly.
 
T

TheOMan

Tagged as I see fit
I'm pretty sure they're supposed to pay those out if you don't use them. This sounds pretty shady.
 
J

Jedi2016

Member
Sounds like it might have been the best thing for you.

My boss has always been big on making sure to use your vacation time. I encourage the same thing in the folks that work for me. I don't need an explanation or an excuse. It's vacation time, that's what it's there for.
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
How did you request the time off?

What is your company policy for requesting time off?
 
G

Ganhyun

Member
Personal anecdote here, but I have found that some jobs dislike you actually using those personal days that expire.

I've used most of mine this year and all the carryover I had last year due to illness and such and gotten some pretty rude comments from upper management and HR for it.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
everyday math said:
Make sure they paid you for those days and any left over. They have too.
Click to expand...

Yup. If you don't use time off you need to be paid for those days. These fools owe you money OP, go get it.

Ganhyun said:
Personal anecdote here, but I have found that some jobs dislike you actually using those personal days that expire.

I've used most of mine this year and all the carryover I had last year due to illness and such and gotten some pretty rude comments from upper management and HR for it.
Click to expand...

Man, at times I forget how fucked up this shit can be.
 
E

epmode

Member
LumpOfCole said:
If you work at a call center in an at-will state, your employment can and will be terminated for just breathing the wrong way. That's a literal possibility - a caller might not like the way you breathe, put that in the comment card, and that negative review can result in a termination.
Click to expand...

For many (most?) states in America, this is 100% true. You can be fired for wearing an ugly shirt and you wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

NYCmetsfan said:
join a union
Click to expand...

haha
 
J

Joe Shlabotnik

Banned
Did you just finish using them or did you request them but haven’t used them yet?

If you just finished using them, it sounds like they baited you into using your personal days so they can now fire you without having to pay those days out.
 
T

TaterTots

Banned
LumpOfCole said:
If you work at a call center in an at-will state, your employment can and will be terminated for just breathing the wrong way. That's a literal possibility - a caller might not like the way you breathe, put that in the comment card, and that negative review can result in a termination.

I wish you good luck in finding a new and better job quickly.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind words. I understand what you're saying. I had 2 bad surveys in 1 day. Both calls were because of billing and how they didn't pay. Left me a bad survey and I was put on a "final" for surveys. That was the previous issue.

3 of the days I requested off was on the tracker, but today I called in for a personal day and hours later I had a voicemail telling me to turn in my equipment or they'll charge me, even though its all there.
 
O

Oriel

Member
Did you run it pass your immediate boss/supervisor first before taking your days off and give adequate notice?
 
B

BajiBoxer

Banned
TheOMan said:
I'm pretty sure they're supposed to pay those out if you don't use them. This sounds pretty shady.
Click to expand...

They don't have to. My company just changed that policy so that personal days expire at the end of the year. Said it was to promote a better work life balance.
 
Iorv3th

Iorv3th

Member
TaterTots said:
Thanks for the kind words. I understand what you're saying. I had 2 bad surveys in 1 day. Both calls were because of billing and how they didn't pay. Left me a bad survey and I was put on a "final" for surveys. That was the previous issue.

3 of the days I requested off was on the tracker, but today I called in for a personal day and hours later I had a voicemail telling me to turn in my equipment or they'll charge me, even though its all there.
Click to expand...

Because unless you are sick or a family emergency happens you need to let them know you can't come in advance. It's a pain in the ass trying to get someone to cover another shift at the last minute.
 
T

TaterTots

Banned
B-Dubs said:
Yup. If you don't use time off you need to be paid for those days. These fools owe you money OP, go get it.



Man, at times I forget how fucked up this shit can be.
Click to expand...

Really? I used 3 unpaid days and 1 paid. The 3 days off I put in the tracker weeks ago and it was approved by the time keeper. Today, I called in for a paid day off and hours later I received the voicemail. I still had 3 days paid left before expiration. Are you saying I can get paid for those 3 days?
 
O

Oriel

Member
Ganhyun said:
Personal anecdote here, but I have found that some jobs dislike you actually using those personal days that expire.

I've used most of mine this year and all the carryover I had last year due to illness and such and gotten some pretty rude comments from upper management and HR for it.
Click to expand...

Funnily enough I've just this week asked if I can roll over some holiday time to next year with my employer. Apparently it's discouraged but not entirely verboden and should be OK.
 
T

TaterTots

Banned
Iorv3th said:
Because unless you are sick or a family emergency happens you need to let them know you can't come in advance. It's a pain in the ass trying to get someone to cover another shift at the last minute.
Click to expand...

3 of those days were in a tracker weeks in advance and approved. Today was the only day and I was let go. Since I don't work there anymore I'll go ahead and say who I worked for. It was a 3rd party for USAA. Obviously, I can't reveal anything deeper than that, but if that helps with rules and regulations/advice...
 
Iorv3th

Iorv3th

Member
TaterTots said:
3 of those days were in a tracker weeks in advance and approved. Today was the only day and I was let go. Since I don't work there anymore I'll go ahead and say who I worked for. It was a 3rd party for USAA. Obviously, I can't reveal anything deeper than that, but if that helps with rules and regulations/advice...
Click to expand...

It's pretty much standard across the country/world. What did you say when you called up to take the day off and wanting it to be paid?
 
G

Gandara

Member
BajiBoxer said:
They don't have to. My company just changed that policy so that personal days expire at the end of the year. Said it was to promote a better work life balance.
Click to expand...

Also depends if you live in the states and which states. Not all states payout vacations. California I know does. My company got rid of all my vacation and replaced it with permissive which means in theory you can take as much as you want but your manager has to approve. Of course there is nothing to payout in that structure.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Where I have worked, personal days are not vacation days. They are there if you need to go to a doctor or something similar. That may be problem #1.

Problem #2 might be how you went about doing it. Were these approved? I've never worked at a job where I can just say "By the way, I'm not coming in tomorrow - personal day". There's always an approval process so your employer can cover for your absence.

Problem #3 might be that you just went back to work and you're already taking time off. I don't know your history there, but that seems irritating to me.
 
N

NoblesseOblige

Banned
By personal days are you referring to sick leave or vacation time? Where I work the latter is pending approval, which 99.99% the time will be approved so long as you request it a week in advance. Sick days are to be used whenever you need time off for health reasons and don't require the advance notice.
 
P

ProtoSound

Neo Member
Being paid for vacation time accrued can vary by state so you will need to check with your local and state laws to see if they owe you for the time unused.

Edit: Basically what Gandara said.
 
S

Slo

Member
You're going to get a lot of outraged replies, but you've got clear your days off with your manager. Combine that with a couple of poor performances....

I'd take this as a blessing, and find a better job. Sucks, but in the long run you'll be better off. Sorry man.
 
V

vikki

Member
Just spoke with my wife about this this morning, and again this evening. Her job is pretty good at letting people do what they are technically allowed to do, but middle management make a stink about it. when I worked at Dunks, they were the worst about vacation time. They would talk about people not taking vacation, but good luck getting time off even when you request it 3+ months in advance. This is management, but still, after requesting time off months in advance, I've had them try to deny the request, months in advance, and then still give me shit when the time comes.

I don't know which state you're in OP, but this seems to be a pretty common problem here in the US. It's shitty that your job would let you go like that, but from what I've heard from other people, call centers are notorious for high turnover. And a really shitty work environment.
 
G

Ganhyun

Member
Oriel said:
Funnily enough I've just this week asked if I can roll over some holiday time to next year with my employer. Apparently it's discouraged but not entirely verboden and should be OK.
Click to expand...

They let us carryover 1/2 our our allowed time total max. I took my max over into this year. Ended up needing them and using them. Now I get the comments.
 
O

Oriel

Member
Karsticles said:
Problem #2 might be how you went about doing it. Were these approved? I've never worked at a job where I can just say "By the way, I'm not coming in tomorrow - personal day". There's always an approval process so your employer can cover for your absence.
Click to expand...

7 days would be the absolute bare-minimum standard I would assume in many businesses. And even then you submit it to a manager who approves it. Sounds like the OP just assumed he could just take personal leave at anytime. For any call centre (work in one myself, but as much maligned IT support for the rest of the operations) keeping to SLA targets is critical.
 
T

TaterTots

Banned
Iorv3th said:
It's pretty much standard across the country/world. What did you say when you called up to take the day off and wanting it to be paid?
Click to expand...

I said, "I can't make it in today." The woman asked if I wanted to use a personal day or not. Never went into details.

vikki said:
Just spoke with my wife about this this morning, and again this evening. Her job is pretty good at letting people do what they are technically allowed to do, but middle management make a stink about it. when I worked at Dunks, they were the worst about vacation time. They would talk about people not taking vacation, but good luck getting time off even when you request it 3+ months in advance. This is management, but still, after requesting time off months in advance, I've had them try to deny the request, months in advance, and then still give me shit when the time comes.

I don't know which state you're in OP, but this seems to be a pretty common problem here in the US. It's shitty that your job would let you go like that, but from what I've heard from other people, call centers are notorious for high turnover. And a really shitty work environment.
Click to expand...

The place that let me go today are looking for 100 people a month. It's a ridiculous turnover rate. The micro managing and such kills everything.
 
A

Admiral Woofington

Member
OP you really need to specify how you took these days off. Because it sounds like you gave almost no notice if any at all and just decided to take a few days off.
 
P

Ponn

Banned
NoblesseOblige said:
By personal days are you referring to sick leave or vacation time? Where I work the latter is pending approval, which 99.99% the time will be approved so long as you request it a week in advance. Sick days are to be used whenever you need time off for health reasons and don't require the advance notice.
Click to expand...

This is correct and a few replies here either didnt know this or missed that. Most jobs in Florida at least, especially call centers have two banks of tme off. Vacation and Personal (PTO) days. Vacation are scheduled ahead of time and usually your bigger bank. Personal is usually just a handful of use when you need them but when you are out you are shit out of luck days. Or commonly referred to as sick days, because you cant really plan on getting sick most of the time. In this case the OPs boss decided he was shit out of luck regardless. Which being in an at will work state is the norm.
 
K

Keri

Member
As others have said, in an at-will state (which is most states), you can be fired for almost anything. Also, it's not all that surprising that your last minute use of a personal day drew their attention, especially since it sounds like they were already looking for a reason to get rid of you. It's the kind of thing they probably would have let slide...if they didn't already want to fire you.

UGH, also I really want to eat tater tots now. I hope you are happy.

EDIT: "Personal day" is pretty ambiguous in my opinion. I've heard of places having vacation time, sick time and personal time. My impression has always been that "personal" time is somewhere in between vacation and sick time, but who knows. My employer has, like, 8 different pay codes for variations of vacation, sick and personal time.
 
L

LiK

Member
Did your boss approve the days off? If it’s like a week or more then you def needed to let them know beforehand. I dunno of your past threads but that’s how it works in my company. Last min is fine as long as it’s sick days. But my company only uses PTOs for everything.
 
T

TaterTots

Banned
Admiral Woofington said:
OP you really need to specify how you took these days off. Because it sounds like you gave almost no notice if any at all and just decided to take a few days off.
Click to expand...

I have multiple times. 3 of the days I requested off was approved in the tracker weeks ago. Today was the first I called in for it. Unless you're saying 2 and a half weeks wasn't enough notice. idk

post #24
 
Majima Everywhere System

Majima Everywhere System

Member
TaterTots said:
Thanks for the kind words. I understand what you're saying. I had 2 bad surveys in 1 day. Both calls were because of billing and how they didn't pay. Left me a bad survey and I was put on a "final" for surveys. That was the previous issue.

3 of the days I requested off was on the tracker, but today I called in for a personal day and hours later I had a voicemail telling me to turn in my equipment or they'll charge me, even though its all there.
Click to expand...

You called off or called in sick. Previous timeoff policies Ive been under had 5 sick days, but would be written up for more than 3 call offs. A single call off can last multiple days.

So you have them, but you can still have attendance problems if you use them.
 
N

norm9

Member
Seems similar to situations where people call in sick at the end of a three day weekend that's been bookend ed by a holiday. Seems suspect, even if it's not.
 
A

Admiral Woofington

Member
TaterTots said:
I have multiple times. 3 of the days I requested off was approved in the tracker weeks ago. Today was the first I called in for it. Unless you're saying 2 and a half weeks wasn't enough notice. idk
Click to expand...

It reads like your higher up didn't like you to begin with and when you called in to request more time that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Tough to say without more context as to your relationship with your boss.
 
T

TylerD

Member
TaterTots said:
I said, "I can't make it in today." The woman asked if I wanted to use a personal day or not. Never went into details.



The place that let me go today are looking for 100 people a month. It's a ridiculous turnover rate. The micro managing and such kills everything.
Click to expand...

Sounds like it's better to not be working there. Congrats on your escape from a shitty place?
 
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