Support NeoGAF

[OverHeat]

Poor AMD…


Article link

PC image quality enhanced: the new DLSS and XeSS tested

XeSS 1.3 vs DLSS 3.7 - which is the better AI-based upscaler?

www.eurogamer.net

 

[KaiserBecks]

How can it fall behind when it never was ahead?

 

[OverHeat]

How can it fall behind when it never was ahead?

The gap is getting bigger and bigger as time go by.

 

[Diddy X]

When I had to turn it on obligated because my PC was shit, the dark times.

 

[March Climber]

How can it fall behind when it never was ahead?

Obligatory:

 

[SolidQ]

Poor AMD…

Thye not poor, they tied to consoles. PS5/Xbox can't run at decent speed with super quality

 

[Kataploom]

The only time I've seen FSR being horrible is in the sewer in TLOU Part I, since it rendered white points in the screen I could not ignore... Apart from that, I've never thought it is making my IQ any worse, I don't see any of the issues many claim. Hell I even forced it in HZD with a mod because that game has lots of aliasing and shimmering all over the place and it softened there full picture but still looked sharp enough to me...

Maybe it's just a matter of being too picky and OCD sensible? I never set it below Quality BTW, and minimum 1440p, if I have to pick a lower resolution than that or pick lower FSR setting in not playing that game until I get a better GPU most probably.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Upscaling sucks. I miss when it was not used as a crutch for hiding poor image quality.

 

[64bitmodels]

Upscaling sucks. I miss when it was not used as a crutch for hiding poor image quality.

Nah just fsr. Upscaling is the one thing preventing you from see the shit resolutions modern games truly run at

 

[Gaiff]

Upscaling sucks. I miss when it was not used as a crutch for hiding poor image quality.

Upscaling is great when used properly.

 

[Dacvak]

Upscaling sucks. I miss when it was not used as a crutch for hiding poor image quality and optimisation.

Upscaling sucks when it’s misused for sure, which has been especially evident on consoles this gen. But DLSS has been a godsend on PC. Whether in motion or stills, there are times when I genuinely prefer DLSS from 1440 to 4K over native 4K, primarily because of alias resolve.

It’s certainly not always better, but it’s shocking how good DLSS can look, and it just keeps getting more competent. Not to mention the performance savings you get.

 

[Soodanim]

This seems like a redundant approach to the thread when we're aware of both current gen FSR's flaws and that a new version of FSR is being developed.

Of course an imperfect technology is going to be behind the newer tech the video is actually about going by chapters alone, and that's kind of the point. If Intel's tech was worse than that would be a real problem. As it stands, the only response to a direct comparison is "Well... duh."

If this was a video about FSR 4 being behind Intel's new upscaling, there might be a discussion here.

 

[JCK75]

Nvidia can win because they design their hardware around it, and by doing so it requires their newest hardware to use.
AMD cannot win in quality.. but they certainly win in hardware support being almost any card can use it.

I mean I had a GTX 1080ti and FSR was my only usable option.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Nah just fsr. Upscaling is the one thing preventing you from see the shit resolutions modern games truly run at

They should not be running in that resolution to begin with. It is mind boggling how resource hungry modern titles are without being all that better in terms of assets and mechanics.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I couldn't even finish the video. I was like... "what's even the point?"

 

[rm082e]

I couldn't even finish the video. I was like... "what's even the point?"

Potentially useful for those looking to buy a new GPU. Sadly, AMD is still well behind Nvidia so that's not going to change the dynamics of that market much. Intel coming in with a better showing is nice, but they have a whole basket of other issues they've been working through. Hopefully a lot of that gets better with their Battlemage cards.

 

[Larxia]

They should not be running in that resolution to begin with. It is mind boggling how resource hungry modern titles are without being all that better in terms of assets and mechanics.

Yeah that's something I think about all the time when I see mediocre looking games with terrible performances nowadays.

There were games in the previous gen that are now super light to run, on our current hardware they run 10 times better than modern games, and often look as good, if not even better sometimes. Not sure what happened, I guess poor engine / optimization. I'm at a point where I think I would have prefered if we kept getting ps4 gen games that ran super smooth on our current machines instead of what we have lol.

 

[SlimySnake]

Anything under FSR2 4k Quality shouldnt be used.

I had no issues with PS4 pro's checkerboarding which was checkerboarding from 4.1 million pixels or somewhere around 1512p. FSR2 quality is already below that.

Devs using FSR2 at 720p need a reality check.

 

[OverHeat]

Next is going to be spectral super resolution no way it’s going to be better then DLSS quality or DLAA

 

[MaKTaiL]

I can't wait to see the PSSR comparison when PS5 Pro hits the market.

 

[OverHeat]

I can't wait to see the PSSR comparison when PS5 Pro hits the market.

It’s going to be a bloodbath!!! Got my CC ready for those gold gift lol

 

[hinch7]

The ghosting in FSR is awful. AMD need to get on that.

 

[ssringo]

Potentially useful for those looking to buy a new GPU. Sadly, AMD is still well behind Nvidia so that's not going to change the dynamics of that market much. Intel coming in with a better showing is nice, but they have a whole basket of other issues they've been working through. Hopefully a lot of that gets better with their Battlemage cards.

I recently built a new high end PC and yeah, AMD being habitually behind NVidia was the deciding factor on GPU.

 

[winjer]

AMD needs to get FSR 3.1 out fast.
At this point, even for people that have an AMD GPU, it's better to use XeSS 1.3 or TSR.

 

[mrcroket]

I don't get why DF has not waited for FSR 3.1 to be released to make the comparison, even if it is not going to be up to the level because of the lack of AI models it would have been more interesting than comparing it with an already old version of FSR.

 

[Gaiff]

I don't get why DF has not waited for FSR 3.1 to be released to make the comparison, even if it is not going to be up to the level because of the lack of AI models it would have been more interesting than comparing it with an already old version of FSR.

The Gaf answer: Because Alex wants to make AMD look bad as it is what the consoles use.

The actual answer: Because Intel had a major update to XeSS and he wished to compare them now and revisit once FSR 3.1 is out.

 

[poppabk]

The only time I've seen FSR being horrible is in the sewer in TLOU Part I, since it rendered white points in the screen I could not ignore... Apart from that, I've never thought it is making my IQ any worse, I don't see any of the issues many claim. Hell I even forced it in HZD with a mod because that game has lots of aliasing and shimmering all over the place and it softened there full picture but still looked sharp enough to me...

Maybe it's just a matter of being too picky and OCD sensible? I never set it below Quality BTW, and minimum 1440p, if I have to pick a lower resolution than that or pick lower FSR setting in not playing that game until I get a better GPU most probably.

Yeah I use it for 4K at quality and it looks perfectly fine. Except for in Robocop for some reason where the water on the road became speckled with little white dots and looked horrendous. Shame because that has FSR3 frame gen if FSR2 upscale is active.

 

[Black_Stride]

I couldn't even finish the video. I was like... "what's even the point?"

Devs and genpop should prefer XeSS DP4a over FSR2 even if they have an AMD GPU.

If you have an Nvidia GPU DLSS all the way!

Upscaling sucks. I miss when it was not used as a crutch for hiding poor image quality.

Current upscaling algos (XeSS and DLSS) are better than most if not all AA solutions bar maybe the MSAA derivatives.....which if you try to use today youll likely get like 10fps.
Perfect for screenshots but horrible for gameplay.

Scratch that, Temporal solutions will eventually resolve to near perfect and can also be used at above native so even for screenshots id still probably use modern techniques.

 

[RoboFu]

Fsr uses basically standardize apis. It's pretty great for being so compatible. Amd are working on an so driven method though.

 

[CamHostage]

The actual answer: Because Intel had a major update to XeSS and he wished to compare them now and revisit once FSR 3.1 is out.

Right, it's clearly including FSR as pretty much an afterthought, and barely talks about FSR even in the sections where FSR is being addressed/compared.

I was still confused why it wasn't FSR 3.0 or FSR 2.2.0/1, but I think the reason may be that FSR is still difficult to just "plug in" wherever you want to test it in supported games. As it says in the article, "...Users can effectively mod improved versions of Nvidia DLSS and Intel XeSS into games with existing support, simply by swapping a .DLL file in the install directories. " No mention of FSR. Am I not correct that you currently cannot do this with FSR? I know there was a project called CyberFSR to swap DLSS with FSR where desired, but it seems behind and unwieldy, and I don't see much success elsewhere either, even per-game mods.

(*EDIT: I also just looked up info and found out that FSR3.0 was mostly the Frame Generation feature rollout; the upscaler has apparently not been touched yet and is the same as in 2.2. It won't be until 3.1 that the upscaler is updated.)

AMD lists "upgradeability" of FSR DLLs as a feature in the upcoming AMD FidelityFX API and FSR 3.1 release (as noticed by winjer in a different thread,) but it's still said to be for "certain circumstances" so I don't know what that amounts to?

 

[Crayon]

Well it was never that great. It's good enough for faking 1440 at the highest quality setting.

We'll see about fsr3. But sony doing their own thing at very least says they were not super confident about whatever amd was cooking.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

havent used DLSS 3 yet, only DLSS 2 on a couple titles. cleans up jaggies better than native, but ghosting and other janky artifacts always make me return to native 4k. (too lazy try a bunch of different DLLs when 4k runs fine)

FSR looks like crap in every pc game ive seen.

like another said, ps4 pro checkboard wasnt too bad.

upscaling seems like the future... but on pc, ive never left it on.

 

[Killer8]

Best results for image reconstruction are hardware accelerated for a reason.

 

[Griffon]

When RE4remake basic checkerboarding looks better than FSR2, you know AMD fucked up somewhere.

 

[Danknugz]

fsr, no cuda equivalent, lack of dedicated cores, AMD is great if all you do is run CoD 120 fps i guess

 

[YCoCg]

I don't know why they couldn't wait til FSR3.1 was out, feels a bit shady to promote updates to Xess and DLSS3.7 when most of the video is just "look at how bad FSR is" with a slight mention at the end "oh yes and FSR is being updated too we might do another video in this".

 

[Three]

I don't know why they couldn't wait til FSR3.1 was out, feels a bit shady to promote updates to Xess and DLSS3.7 when most of the video is just "look at how bad FSR is" with a slight mention at the end "oh yes and FSR is being updated too we might do another video in this".

I knew it was a DF video before I even clicked into the thread.

 

[JimboJones]

I don't know why they couldn't wait til FSR3.1 was out, feels a bit shady to promote updates to Xess and DLSS3.7 when most of the video is just "look at how bad FSR is" with a slight mention at the end "oh yes and FSR is being updated too we might do another video in this".

Its fun to laugh at how shit fsr is.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I don't know why they couldn't wait til FSR3.1 was out, feels a bit shady to promote updates to Xess and DLSS3.7 when most of the video is just "look at how bad FSR is" with a slight mention at the end "oh yes and FSR is being updated too we might do another video in this".

Maybe it will light a fire under AMD ass to do something

 

[dotnotbot]

Why is he comparing FSR balanced to XeSS quality, did he explain in the video?

 

[hybrid_birth]

Fucks  Sake  Really AMD?

 

[Buggy Loop]

I don't know why they couldn't wait til FSR3.1 was out, feels a bit shady to promote updates to Xess and DLSS3.7 when most of the video is just "look at how bad FSR is" with a slight mention at the end "oh yes and FSR is being updated too we might do another video in this".

Dude

AMD has not updated their upscaler since October 2022

If we waited on AMD before discussing the massive leaps competitors did in the meantime, we would look to an outside observer as someone that is time dilated when near a black hole.

 

[Three]

Why is he comparing FSR balanced to XeSS quality, did he explain in the video?

I assume because XeSS resolution scaling factor has changed in XeSS 1.3. So Quality is 1.7x like FSRs Balanced.

 

[Gaiff]

I don't know why they couldn't wait til FSR3.1 was out, feels a bit shady to promote updates to Xess and DLSS3.7 when most of the video is just "look at how bad FSR is" with a slight mention at the end "oh yes and FSR is being updated too we might do another video in this".

Last time they covered XeSS was a year and a half ago as per the video. Why the fuck would they wait for FSR 3.1 when XeSS is already there and usable on the vast majority of GPU? They didn’t wait because the major XeSS update is already out.

Do they need to wait for AMD’s permission every time the other two update their solutions?

 

[Gaiff]

Dude

AMD has not updated their upscaler since October 2022

If we waited on AMD before discussing the massive leaps competitors did in the meantime, we would look to an outside observer as someone that is time dilated when near a black hole.

Why try to think logically when it’s easier to try to shit on DF? You’re doing this wrong.

 

[Three]

Last time they covered XeSS was a year and a half ago as per the video. Why the fuck would they wait for FSR 3.1 when XeSS is already there and usable on the vast majority of GPU? They didn’t wait because the major XeSS update is already out.

Do they need to wait for AMD’s permission every time the other two update their solutions?

Na, they waited for DLSS 3.7 specifically so they can sing its praises, not XeSS. FSR3.1 isn't far out but they usually time it with and cover Nvidia.

 

[YCoCg]

Dude

AMD has not updated their upscaler since October 2022

If we waited on AMD before discussing the massive leaps competitors did in the meantime, we would look to an outside observer as someone that is time dilated when near a black hole.

But we KNOW FSR3.1 is coming, AMD announced it and shown it off with Ratchet & Clank and it should be released within a few weeks. We also know AMD is working on an AI version of FSR too but we don't have a date in that yet.

Last time they covered XeSS was a year and a half ago as per the video. Why the fuck would they wait for FSR 3.1 when XeSS is already there and usable on the vast majority of GPU? They didn’t wait because the major XeSS update is already out.

Do they need to wait for AMD’s permission every time the other two update their solutions?

See above, this video covers updates for both Xess and DLSS. There wasn't exactly a rush for it, could've put it on the back burner and then test ALL of them with their new models.

Why try to think logically when it’s easier to try to shit on DF? You’re doing this wrong.

Oh please I defend DF here more than most, it just felt like it would've been a more interesting video to do when FSR3.1 is out so they could show how all of them improved instead of spending most of the video pointing out how bad FSR2 is when we know an improved version is being released soon.

 

[JimboJones]

Why is he comparing FSR balanced to XeSS quality, did he explain in the video?

Intel uses a different naming convention for quality levels as of 1.3

 

[Gaiff]

Na, they waited for DLSS 3.7 specifically so they can sing its praises, not XeSS. FSR3.1 isn't far out but they usually time it with and cover Nvidia.

The focus of that video was XeSS. DLSS 3.7 barely got coverage and the only noteworthy addition was the Model E in Avatar. 1.3 and 4.7 came out the same week so they didn’t wait for anyone lol. AMD is just late as usual.

 

[CamHostage]

I don't know why they couldn't wait til FSR3.1 was out...

As mentioned previously, they did this now because DLSS update to 3.7 on April 4 and XeSS updated to 1.3 on April 5th. These are freshly updated, and worth a look now.

FSR 3.0 was mostly a feature-introducing update; it adds Frame Interpolation and Optical Flow. Upscaling, however, is still apparently the same as FSR2.

AMD's FSR upscaler will be modified when 3.1 releases. Unfortunately, it could be a bit of a wait before we can see how it works out, as FSR 3.1 won't be available to developers until some time in Q2 and won't appear in actual games until some undetermined time later in the year. Maybe we'll see more of it earlier than we think, but AMD's messaging was not the "any day now" type of coming soon announcement.

...FSR did get caught in DF's fishing net during this upscaler look, but it makes sense to not exclude it even though it's due to change this year (and it also makes sense to show FSR's flaws, even though the hopefully-hefty patch seeks to improve upon those issues.) Alex promised a look at FSR 3.1 "soon enough", when it's actually available and games are out supporting it.