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GAF's Top 10 Sonic Games

MrBadger

Member
I love Unleashed. Arguably, it has the one of the best "day stages" of the entire Hedgehog Engine trilogy. Dragon's Road, Skycrapper Scamper, Jungle Joyride and above all, Eggmanland, are incredible well desing speed action stages.

It has superior version of Rooftop Run too and much better final bosses than Generations, even though, Generations is better overall

Well I mean...Sonic 06 has a better final boss than Generations. I wasn't a fan of how Unleashed's last boss was essentially a QTE. I really like the Eggman fight before it, though.
 

brett2

Member
1. Sonic 2
2. Sonic CD
3. Sonic
4. Sonic 3&K
5. Sonic Adventure

I've played other games in the series but I wouldn't bother putting them on the list.
 

Zimmy64

Member
Well I mean...Sonic 06 has a better final boss than Generations. I wasn't a fan of how Unleashed's last boss was essentially a QTE. I really like the Eggman fight before it, though.

The Final boss in the Wii version of Unleashed isn't a QTE. Its actually pretty good. I prefer Generations modern levels to Unleashed's day stages but they are both better than Colors (although as a whole Colors>Unleashed). As for the Eggman fight you're talking about the Egg Dragoon right. I absolutely agree that fight was spectacular. I liked it even more when they remade it in Generations and you fought it as regular Sonic.
 

GamerJM

Banned
1. Sonic Adventure 2
2. Sonic CD
3. Sonic Adventure
4. Sonic Generations
5. Sonic and the Secret Rings
6. Sonic Heroes
7. Sonic 2
8. Sonic Colors

These are honestly the only games in the series I feel comfortable saying I like, though I realize this is a weird opinion.
 

B.K.

Member
1. Sonic 2
2. Sonic 3 & Knuckles
3. Sonic the Hedgehog
4. Sonic Adventure
5. Sonic Adventure 2

I haven't played a Sonic game since Adventure 2, so that's all I can list.
 
I still like sonic 1.

Even the master system version of sonic 1 I like.

2 is alright.

I hate pretty much everything from the last ...uh...20 years? Although I started just not even playing it at some point (way too late, haha)
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
I haven't played any of the Nintendo-exclusive Sonic games, so here goes.

#1: Sonic 2 (16-bit)
#2: Sonic 1 (16-bit)
#3: Sonic 3 & Knuckles
#4: Sonic 1 (8-bit)
#5: Sonic 2 (8-bit)
#6: Sonic Generations
#7: Sonic Chaos
#8: Sonic Triple Trouble
#9: Sonic 4 Episode 2
#10: Sonic CD
 
The Final boss in the Wii version of Unleashed isn't a QTE. Its actually pretty good. I prefer Generations modern levels to Unleashed's day stages but they are both better than Colors (although as a whole Colors>Unleashed). As for the Eggman fight you're talking about the Egg Dragoon right I absolutely agree that fight was spectacular.. I liked it even more when they remade it in Generations and you fought it as regular Sonic.

I like the "Super Sonic/Nights Gameplay" segment in the Ultimate Dark Gaia form, too
 
Sonic CD is far and away the best sonic game, period.

At times I feel like Sonic CD's like an inside joke or one of those things you appreciate more after you've finally figured it out or worked hard to know everything about.

Like while I find some of the secrets impressive, I can't help but to find to even watch someone play it annoying.
 
At times I feel like Sonic CD's like an inside joke or one of those things you appreciate more after you've finally figured it out or worked hard to know everything about.

Like while I find some of the secrets impressive, I can't help but to find to even watch someone play it annoying.

My family picked up a Sega CD at a Toys 'r' Us clearance sale in 1996. The unit itself was $30, and all the games were like, $2-$5 each. So I've had ready access to Sonic CD for something like 20 years.

It doesn't get any better the more you play it. It has fantastic art, fantastic music, and a really good concept. But it's got cheap, exploitative level design that emphasizes breaking your flow and doing things that Sonic isn't really terribly suited for (he's not Mario, platforming isn't Sonic's strongest suit)

I think its popularity can be largely blamed on the fact that it came out at the height of Sonic fever (after Sonic 2 but before Sonic 3) on a platform that maybe 10% of all Sega Genesis owners had. It gained a legendary status because, yo, dude, a friend of a friend's cousin has a Sega CD, and he says Sonic CD is the best game ever made. DieHard Game Fan gave it 10/10!

It's a cute little side-grade with a lot of cool stuff but it feels like it was made by people who didn't really know what they were doing in the grand scheme of things.
 
My family picked up a Sega CD at a Toys 'r' Us clearance sale in 1996. The unit itself was $30, and all the games were like, $2-$5 each. So I've had ready access to Sonic CD for something like 20 years.

It doesn't get any better the more you play it. It has fantastic art, fantastic music, and a really good concept. But it's got cheap, exploitative level design that emphasizes breaking your flow and doing things that Sonic isn't really terribly suited for (he's not Mario, platforming isn't Sonic's strongest suit)

I think its popularity can be largely blamed on the fact that it came out at the height of Sonic fever (after Sonic 2 but before Sonic 3) on a platform that maybe 10% of all Sega Genesis owners had. It gained a legendary status because, yo, dude, a friend of a friend's cousin has a Sega CD, and he says Sonic CD is the best game ever made. DieHard Game Fan gave it 10/10!

It's a cute little side-grade with a lot of cool stuff but it feels like it was made by people who didn't really know what they were doing in the grand scheme of things.

This is exactly how I felt. I didn't get to play Sonic CD until I was 16 on an emulator.(Missed out on both Sonic CD, because I didn't own one until it was dead and games were hard to find.) But when I did, I couldn't help but find myself disappointed and confused because of the overall design and direction, it was very un-Sonic like, leaving only the anime FMV's and cutscenes as anything I could genuinely enjoy. The fantasy more than anything. I remember trying to give the game another try last year and still can't enjoy it. My friend bought it on Steam for my birthday as an ironic joke because he knew I hated it. lol
 

Brofield

Member
Man, this feels hard already. I assume we can include spinoffs, so if so...

1) Sonic 2
2) Sonic Advance
3) Sonic The Hedgehog
4) Sonic & Knuckles
5) Sonic 3
6) Sonic Adventure 2: Battle
7) Sonic Riders
8) Sonic Adventure DX
9) Sonic Heroes
10) Shadow The Hedgehog
 

sörine

Banned
Console and mainline only:

1. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (MD)
2. Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles (MD)
3. Sonic CD (MCD)
4. Sonic the Hedgehog (MD)
5. Sonic Generations (360/PS3/PC)
6. Sonic Colors (Wii)
7. Sonic Lost World (WU)
8. Sonic Adventure / DX (DC/GC)
9. Sonic Adventure 2 / Battle (DC/GC)
10. Sonic Unleashed (Wii/PS2)
 

Azure J

Member
My family picked up a Sega CD at a Toys 'r' Us clearance sale in 1996. The unit itself was $30, and all the games were like, $2-$5 each. So I've had ready access to Sonic CD for something like 20 years.

It doesn't get any better the more you play it. It has fantastic art, fantastic music, and a really good concept. But it's got cheap, exploitative level design that emphasizes breaking your flow and doing things that Sonic isn't really terribly suited for (he's not Mario, platforming isn't Sonic's strongest suit)

I think its popularity can be largely blamed on the fact that it came out at the height of Sonic fever (after Sonic 2 but before Sonic 3) on a platform that maybe 10% of all Sega Genesis owners had. It gained a legendary status because, yo, dude, a friend of a friend's cousin has a Sega CD, and he says Sonic CD is the best game ever made. DieHard Game Fan gave it 10/10!

It's a cute little side-grade with a lot of cool stuff but it feels like it was made by people who didn't really know what they were doing in the grand scheme of things.

Over time, I've slowly begun to migrate towards this opinion myself. Sonic CD is basically Sonic art direction/style of that era perfected, the soundtracks on both sides of the planet (with JPN being a S tier standout), and the animated intro and endings which to this day have never been topped in terms of selling the character and universe of Sonic the Hedgehog imo.

The game itself is just messy in places. I sometimes imagine how different it would be overall if Sonic 3K era level designers had just tinkered with the title some before it hit the market.
 
Over time, I've slowly begun to migrate towards this opinion myself. Sonic CD is basically Sonic art direction/style of that era perfected, the soundtracks on both sides of the planet (with JPN being a S tier standout), and the animated intro and endings which to this day have never been topped in terms of selling the character and universe of Sonic the Hedgehog imo.

The game itself is just messy in places. I sometimes imagine how different it would be overall if Sonic 3K era level designers had just tinkered with the title some before it hit the market.

While it's not definite, I would assume it would have been a much more fluid and well constructed game.
 
platforming isn't Sonic's strongest suit
Er... it kinda is? I mean, it's a platformer... one that allows for crazy jumps based on the angle of the floor you're jumping off of, too, which can be a bit weird at first since not too many platformers of the time did that, but which becomes very rewarding once you get the hang of it.

Not touching the rest of your post since, well, Sonic CD is very hit-or-miss. Although I find it weird that people constantly treat Sonic CD as limited to the Sega CD until the 2013 ports, when there was a pretty awesome Windows 95 port back in 1995 or so; that's certainly how I played it back in the day. It's not like it wasn't easy to find or anything, either!
 
Er... it kinda is? I mean, it's a platformer... one that allows for crazy jumps based on the angle of the floor you're jumping off of, too, which can be a bit weird at first since not too many platformers of the time did that, but which becomes very rewarding once you get the hang of it.


I think he meant the style of platforming that was presented in Sonic CD which was more jump/spacing focused as opposed to run/jump focused like all the other entries [I put the focuses in an order btw], excluding possibly Sonic 1 which has a slower pace, reasonably because it was the first entry. Like even watching Krejlooc play through Wacky Workbench looks very unlike Sonic due to constant backtracking and stopping.

I kinda just chuckled to myself thinking about it, "I've been waiting to play Sonic just to stop moving."
 

taybul

Member
1. Sonic and Knuckles 3
2. Sonic 2 (Genesis)
3. Sonic CD
4. Sonic 1 (Genesis)
5. Sonic 2 (GG)
6. Sonic 1 (GG)

One notable thing I loved about the Game Gear Sonics was how the emeralds were hidden in the levels. I never liked having to play the bonus levels in order to obtain them.

I loved Hyper Sonic in SK3 but I'd always end up killing myself by falling in a pit or glitching in the level somehow.

I played Sonic CD for the PC and it had the music as the CD tracks. I would listen to the "album" all the time.
 
1. Sonic 3
2. Sonic and Knuckles
3. Sonic 2
4. Sonic 1
.
.
.
5. Sonic CD
6. Sonic Advance
7. Sonic Advance 2

After that things start getting really questionable in quality.
 
Er... it kinda is? I mean, it's a platformer... one that allows for crazy jumps based on the angle of the floor you're jumping off of, too, which can be a bit weird at first since not too many platformers of the time did that, but which becomes very rewarding once you get the hang of it.

Not touching the rest of your post since, well, Sonic CD is very hit-or-miss. Although I find it weird that people constantly treat Sonic CD as limited to the Sega CD until the 2013 ports, when there was a pretty awesome Windows 95 port back in 1995 or so; that's certainly how I played it back in the day. It's not like it wasn't easy to find or anything, either!

I feel like the baseline for "best controls in a 2D platformer" is Mario (be it SMB3 or SMW), and in that regard, Sonic does not control as well as Mario does. That's for a reason, of course, because Sonic's whole thing is momentum and speed. He is effected by slopes, whereas Mario typically is not.

But that means Sonic is definitely a lot heavier feeling than Mario, and I have seen people struggle with that fact. Just because you or I are "used to it" does not mean much. Yes, Genesis Sonic is actually a platformer, but I wouldn't say that's what people remember most about those games. It's kind of a means to an end.

What you describe about Sonic's ability to launch himself is probably not something most people even know about. Of course, that's a different discussion all together -- I don't think most people know how to play Sonic "the right way," and that ended up reflected in how most Sonic games after a certain point don't even let you roll in to a ball anymore.

Also, you're forgetting that the Windows 95 port of Sonic CD was broken and unplayable on newer versions of Windows within about four years of release. Somebody eventually released a fan patch to get it working again, but I doubt most people braved the dark, dank depths of Sonic-Cult to get it. Or even knew it existed at all, really.
 

ElTopo

Banned
I don't have a Top 10. It's just the Genesis games (minus Blast and Mean Bean Machine), Sonic CD and Generations. And in that case...

Sonic 3 and Knuckles
Sonic 2
Sonic CD
Sonic Generations
Sonic 1
Sonic Spinball
 

Azure J

Member
Also, you're forgetting that the Windows 95 port of Sonic CD was broken and unplayable on newer versions of Windows within about four years of release.

Yeah seriously, I was so sad to get that four pack from those old Scholastic book order forms for the Sonic & Knuckles Collection, Sonic CD, Sonic R, & Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine only to try CD and run into that error message ad infinitum--

Somebody eventually released a fan patch to get it working again, but I doubt most people braved the dark, dank depths of Sonic-Cult to get it. Or even knew it existed at all, really.

W H A T
 

Stat Flow

He gonna cry in the car
1. Sonic 3&K
2. Sonic 2
3. Sonic 1

And then...for the sake of making it a top 5:
4. Sonic Adventure
5. Sonic Generations
 
One of my favorite thing about Sonic threads is when fans chime in on discussion about the mechanics and depth of the games. Nowadays Sonic is usually put down by drive by posts or people who never understood the games to begin with, so the depth in design is always slept on. Its always refreshing to read people's thoughts on gameplay.
 
1) Sonic 3 & Knuckles. The pinnacle of the series

2) Sonic 2 annoying tails but great levels and the bonus stage were brilliant

3) Sonic CD added something new to the series. Having to go back and forward in time and finding a place to build up speed was great. Also the goat of all sonic battles Metallic Sonic

4) Sonic brilliant entry into the series and my first game with my mega drive. Labirynth zone was awful I died every time in the boss not knowing you
had to just get to the top not damage him.
. Still level select helped me get passed that stage as a child.

5) Sonic R great racing game that had a sense of exploration for shortcuts new routes and great music.

6) Sonic Spinball. Because.
 

Jay RaR

Member
I don't think I've played 10 Sonic games yet lol.

1. Sonic Generations
2. Sonic Adventure
3. Sonic Adventure 2
4. Sonic Colors
5. Sonic 3

Not going to add 06, Boom 3DS, and LW 3DS.

Not sure if I can add the Unleashed Project as well, lol.
 

G0523

Member
10.) Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing/Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed (tie)
9.) Sonic Colors
8.) Sonic Unleashed
7.) Sonic Advance
6.) Sonic Adventure 2
5.) Sonic Adventure
4.) Sonic Generations
3.) Sonic 1
2.) Sonic 2
1.) Sonic 3 & Knuckles

To truly appreciate the games nowadays I'd strongly suggest playing the HD versions of the ones that are available (Sonic 1, 2, Adventure 2). Make sure to hook up a real controller though since Sonic 1 & 2 HD are only available on mobile. They really bring out what's best of the Genesis games and the extra bonus content is sooo good that it brings them to definitive status.
 
I feel like the baseline for "best controls in a 2D platformer" is Mario (be it SMB3 or SMW), and in that regard, Sonic does not control as well as Mario does. That's for a reason, of course, because Sonic's whole thing is momentum and speed. He is effected by slopes, whereas Mario typically is not.

But that means Sonic is definitely a lot heavier feeling than Mario, and I have seen people struggle with that fact. Just because you or I are "used to it" does not mean much. Yes, Genesis Sonic is actually a platformer, but I wouldn't say that's what people remember most about those games. It's kind of a means to an end.

What you describe about Sonic's ability to launch himself is probably not something most people even know about. Of course, that's a different discussion all together -- I don't think most people know how to play Sonic "the right way," and that ended up reflected in how most Sonic games after a certain point don't even let you roll in to a ball anymore.
I'm not entirely convinced they're all that different, though. Mario is still pretty momentum-based - you don't accelerate instantly, your horizontal momentum is kept when you jump (even if you jumped when not quite at top speed), and air control may or may not be rather weak (it's certainly pretty weak in SMB1 and recent NSMB games, although it's ridiculously strong in SMW - as I recall, you have a video somewhere illustrating how you can jump at full speed from a platform, turn around in mid-air at the apex of your jump, and still land exactly where you jumped from, you have that much air control). You still have to take all of that into account when gauging how to make each stage's various jumps.

Mario just doesn't take it further like Sonic does, making you take into account slope angles on top of all that (IIRC). It also has two separate acceleration/top-speed values that you can swap between at will with the press of the B-button, which is actually a little more complex than Sonic's is, since that game only has one set of acceleration/top-speed (ignoring the Spin Attack state or Speed Shoes; I'm talking base jumping mechanics here), although the aforementioned complexity of the slope-jumping mechanics negates that (and let's be honest, does anyone ever not hold B on a regular basis in Mario games in casual play?).

I'll admit, though, Sonic's definitely weightier than Mario in terms of horizontal movement (I'd say Mario is actually heavier when jumping, at least in SMW - feels like he accelerates upward/downward quite a bit faster). It did take some getting used to the timing to smash down, say, the breakable wall at the very start GHZ2, making sure I had the right amount of momentum before spinning. Still, movement mechanics are different in every game, even within the same series (again, Mario), there's a learning curve to everything. As far as just learning how to jump around goes, I don't think the Sonic series is that different from the Mario series as you're claiming it is.

Also, you're forgetting that the Windows 95 port of Sonic CD was broken and unplayable on newer versions of Windows within about four years of release. Somebody eventually released a fan patch to get it working again, but I doubt most people braved the dark, dank depths of Sonic-Cult to get it. Or even knew it existed at all, really.
Not really forgetting, but still, that only really started being a problem around 2001 or so with Windows XP, didn't it? That's still a good six years of the product being out on store shelves and generally working properly.

I think he meant the style of platforming that was presented in Sonic CD which was more jump/spacing focused as opposed to run/jump focused like all the other entries [I put the focuses in an order btw], excluding possibly Sonic 1 which has a slower pace, reasonably because it was the first entry. Like even watching Krejlooc play through Wacky Workbench looks very unlike Sonic due to constant backtracking and stopping.

I kinda just chuckled to myself thinking about it, "I've been waiting to play Sonic just to stop moving."
Okay, I'll grant you Wacky Workbench put waaaay too much emphasis on the platforming. For as much as I really like Sonic CD, that stage is just really poorly-thought-out all-around. The platforming in the other stages (and other Genesis games) is generally a lot better, if only because you're not forced to wait for floating platforms to finish their extraordinarily slow arcs all the time; if that comes up, it's usually only to find alternate paths for the patient, with a more-immediate (but generally harder) path available by passing the floating platforms up.

Of course, it's also sort of a matter of priorities. I actually tend to take the Sonic games a bit slower than most probably do, using speed as a tool to explore hidden nooks and crannies more than it being the end-goal itself. That's something I always thought was a strength of the old games - there were plenty of goodies hidden around the stages, if you slowed down and took the time to check out the various walls to see if they had hidden passages or could be broken down - although some of it required hitting certain ramps at just the right velocity to make obscure jumps (like the hidden upper path at the end of Chemical Plant Zone Act 2 in Sonic 2).

And, well, that's partly why I like Sonic CD so much - there's just so much to explore in that one, what with every stage having four different variants to check out. When played just for blasting through, it's not terribly fulfilling, no. When using it as a playground to mess around with the Sonic series' unique mechanics and using them to open up those other time periods, though, it's pretty fun.
 

Azure J

Member
I feel like I posted in here a few times without doing my list:

1. Sonic 3 & Knuckles - The epitome of the Sonic franchise. Mechanically sound, dense with content, fantastic moments, excellent level design, fantastic artistic design, dat soundtrack... I could go on and on about this title (either in its entirety or its separate "halves") and never get tired of it.

It also comes with Knuckles. He doesn't chuckle.

2. Sonic Colors - The modern day anomaly. While "held back" in terms of visuals versus its older brother Unleashed and younger bro Generations, this title was a flash in the dark for Sonic level design, taking into consideration the character's abilities as per the previously mentioned Unleashed and marrying them to levels full of dizzying verticality and a number of new means of traveling through them via the ingenious Wisps.

3. Sonic Generations - An audio/visual thrill ride through the series' most iconic stages
unless you're a Sonic 3K head like me :p
. Perfected the "boost" trilogy's controls and design as far as it could be in three games. The game was a bit lacking for content though.

4. Sonic Rush - What U Need, indeed. Perhaps this title was the precursor to the boost trilogy on consoles. Funky tunes, a very interesting take on Sonic's ability and the most awesome feeling of "go go go" in the 2D lineage to this day are key parts of the game that continue to resonate with me today.

5. Sonic Rush Adventure - Imagine the above minus Naganuma's godlike mastery of sound but adding in some stronger level design and a few mandatory minigames in between stages. Honestly, you'd think it's the latter that puts it under Rush 1... It's the former in truth.

6. Sonic The Hedgehog - The game that started it all. It's definitely a tad rough now with the dreaded transition from the free rolling and peaceful Green Hill Zone to Marble Zone's slow and patient platforming causing most to write it off in an era where the rest of the franchise exists, but because of how different it is to almost everything else that exists in the franchise, it gains a lot of unique -isms unto itself that still make it relevant to play now as well as it did way back when.

7. Sonic Lost World - I have written numerous posts here on GAF where I mention how many things this title gets right enough to leave me with an itch for more of its style of play over everything else done in the 3D games thus far. I don't think I need to bring it up again, nor do I need to bring up the fixes Sega needs to do to make it the A+ game it wants to be so dearly. This guy makes it up to 7 here just on the premise of what's there alone. Scary to think about what it could be with more of its bugs ironed out.

8. Sonic Advance 3 - Pretty fun game with a cool gimmick in the partnering mechanics. It also felt a lot better to play for me personally than Sonic Advance 2 did while not being as blah feeling as Sonic Advance 1, 1:1 Genesis momentum aside.

9. Sonic Riders - This game is actually really really fun, but it needed more stages. The SEGA fanservice you could unlock later on was also a big plus.

10. Sonic R - Good to kill an afternoon with every now and again. Soundtrack alone makes it so that it had to be present here. In some senses, I still kinda want a sequel using Hedgehog Engine assets. Haha.
 
I'm not entirely convinced they're all that different, though. Mario is still pretty momentum-based - you don't accelerate instantly, your horizontal momentum is kept when you jump (even if you jumped when not quite at top speed), and air control may or may not be rather weak (it's certainly pretty weak in SMB1 and recent NSMB games, although it's ridiculously strong in SMW - as I recall, you have a video somewhere illustrating how you can jump at full speed from a platform, turn around in mid-air at the apex of your jump, and still land exactly where you jumped from, you have that much air control). You still have to take all of that into account when gauging how to make each stage's various jumps.

Mario just doesn't take it further like Sonic does, making you take into account slope angles on top of all that (IIRC). It also has two separate acceleration/top-speed values that you can swap between at will with the press of the B-button, which is actually a little more complex than Sonic's is, since that game only has one set of acceleration/top-speed (ignoring the Spin Attack state or Speed Shoes; I'm talking base jumping mechanics here), although the aforementioned complexity of the slope-jumping mechanics negates that (and let's be honest, does anyone ever not hold B on a regular basis in Mario games in casual play?).

I'll admit, though, Sonic's definitely weightier than Mario in terms of horizontal movement (I'd say Mario is actually heavier when jumping, at least in SMW - feels like he accelerates upward/downward quite a bit faster). It did take some getting used to the timing to smash down, say, the breakable wall at the very start GHZ2, making sure I had the right amount of momentum before spinning. Still, movement mechanics are different in every game, even within the same series (again, Mario), there's a learning curve to everything. As far as just learning how to jump around goes, I don't think the Sonic series is that different from the Mario series as you're claiming it is.

Not really forgetting, but still, that only really started being a problem around 2001 or so with Windows XP, didn't it? That's still a good six years of the product being out on store shelves and generally working properly.

Okay, I'll grant you Wacky Workbench put waaaay too much emphasis on the platforming. For as much as I really like Sonic CD, that stage is just really poorly-thought-out all-around. The platforming in the other stages (and other Genesis games) is generally a lot better, if only because you're not forced to wait for floating platforms to finish their extraordinarily slow arcs all the time; if that comes up, it's usually only to find alternate paths for the patient, with a more-immediate (but generally harder) path available by passing the floating platforms up.

Of course, it's also sort of a matter of priorities. I actually tend to take the Sonic games a bit slower than most probably do, using speed as a tool to explore hidden nooks and crannies more than it being the end-goal itself. That's something I always thought was a strength of the old games - there were plenty of goodies hidden around the stages, if you slowed down and took the time to check out the various walls to see if they had hidden passages or could be broken down - although some of it required hitting certain ramps at just the right velocity to make obscure jumps (like the hidden upper path at the end of Chemical Plant Zone Act 2 in Sonic 2).

And, well, that's partly why I like Sonic CD so much - there's just so much to explore in that one, what with every stage having four different variants to check out. When played just for blasting through, it's not terribly fulfilling, no. When using it as a playground to mess around with the Sonic series' unique mechanics and using them to open up those other time periods, though, it's pretty fun.

As far as Sonic CD goes, I kinda agree on the terms of subjectivity, where as someone who may prefer to take their time with platformers in general or specifically Sonic may find it more enjoyable than a guy like me who would prefer to run through the stage and handle obstacles and alternatives as they come.

I think the reason why Sonic is so synonymous with Mario is because it came out during the time when Mario was at the peak of its popularity, and deemed as a solid threat. Design and direction wise, I think they're totally different. This is displayed through the details in the game, like Mario games were notorious for presenting "grander" (I'm using this in a context in correlation to the game itself) scale of secrets. Most that allow you skip 50% or more of a stage (pipes and hidden vines) or 50% or more of the game itself, (warp pipes). You gain extended lives from 100 coins (shared mechanic among many platformers at the time including Sonic) but in Mario they also have a scoring mechanic that rewards lives for jump combos. Coin/Ring Collection, another shared mechanic would be the bounce mechanic (gaining height from holding the jump button either during a jump or after bouncing off of something.)

Mario presents more of a playground in design. Matter in fact, now that I think I about it, 3D World is probably the closest thing to a Sonic game in the directional sense and secrets.

In Sonic's court, secrets are there to ensure longevity (lives/hidden capsules/power ups/rings/invincibility) or achieve a good ending (Chaos Emeralds/Timestones/Sol Emeralds). [One of the rules CD does follow despite not having that much of a difference]. Secrets are also there to present better/alternative paths. Due to the "as they come nature of the design, you usually make it a part of your run.

I think Sonic 3&K is a special anomaly that works out for the better though. It still maintains directional focus in level design, but contain so many secrets inside the stages depth that it allows you to act as a playground, [even to the point of getting all the emeralds in the first stage]. But unlike Sonic CD, it's much more intuitive and fluid. Hence it works.

I think the closest game in design that's similar to Mario would be Sonic 1. But the only reason I never look too much into 1's design is due to the fact that it's their first attempt.

There are other things to consider as well, like Mario's approach to overcoming obstacles and enemies with abilities and what not, as Sonic goes more into things like timed rolls and jumps.

Sonic's pinball design with bumpers, springs, and boost pads [Hey 3D World lol].

Stuff Mario has like spin jumps in SMW that can present some form of invincibility as well as picking up items and using them at specific points.

Thinking about it, the Item Abuse series is the greatest example of the differences between Mario and Sonic.
 
I'm not entirely convinced they're all that different, though. Mario is still pretty momentum-based - you don't accelerate instantly, your horizontal momentum is kept when you jump (even if you jumped when not quite at top speed), and air control may or may not be rather weak (it's certainly pretty weak in SMB1 and recent NSMB games, although it's ridiculously strong in SMW - as I recall, you have a video somewhere illustrating how you can jump at full speed from a platform, turn around in mid-air at the apex of your jump, and still land exactly where you jumped from, you have that much air control). You still have to take all of that into account when gauging how to make each stage's various jumps.

Mario just doesn't take it further like Sonic does, making you take into account slope angles on top of all that (IIRC). It also has two separate acceleration/top-speed values that you can swap between at will with the press of the B-button, which is actually a little more complex than Sonic's is, since that game only has one set of acceleration/top-speed (ignoring the Spin Attack state or Speed Shoes; I'm talking base jumping mechanics here), although the aforementioned complexity of the slope-jumping mechanics negates that (and let's be honest, does anyone ever not hold B on a regular basis in Mario games in casual play?).

I'll admit, though, Sonic's definitely weightier than Mario in terms of horizontal movement (I'd say Mario is actually heavier when jumping, at least in SMW - feels like he accelerates upward/downward quite a bit faster). It did take some getting used to the timing to smash down, say, the breakable wall at the very start GHZ2, making sure I had the right amount of momentum before spinning. Still, movement mechanics are different in every game, even within the same series (again, Mario), there's a learning curve to everything. As far as just learning how to jump around goes, I don't think the Sonic series is that different from the Mario series as you're claiming it is.

Not really forgetting, but still, that only really started being a problem around 2001 or so with Windows XP, didn't it? That's still a good six years of the product being out on store shelves and generally working properly.

Okay, I'll grant you Wacky Workbench put waaaay too much emphasis on the platforming. For as much as I really like Sonic CD, that stage is just really poorly-thought-out all-around. The platforming in the other stages (and other Genesis games) is generally a lot better, if only because you're not forced to wait for floating platforms to finish their extraordinarily slow arcs all the time; if that comes up, it's usually only to find alternate paths for the patient, with a more-immediate (but generally harder) path available by passing the floating platforms up.

Of course, it's also sort of a matter of priorities. I actually tend to take the Sonic games a bit slower than most probably do, using speed as a tool to explore hidden nooks and crannies more than it being the end-goal itself. That's something I always thought was a strength of the old games - there were plenty of goodies hidden around the stages, if you slowed down and took the time to check out the various walls to see if they had hidden passages or could be broken down - although some of it required hitting certain ramps at just the right velocity to make obscure jumps (like the hidden upper path at the end of Chemical Plant Zone Act 2 in Sonic 2).

And, well, that's partly why I like Sonic CD so much - there's just so much to explore in that one, what with every stage having four different variants to check out. When played just for blasting through, it's not terribly fulfilling, no. When using it as a playground to mess around with the Sonic series' unique mechanics and using them to open up those other time periods, though, it's pretty fun.

Sonic CD's PC port came out in 1996 according to Wikipedia. Sonic CD's PC port had five years of operability at best, and gaming on a PC back then was not like it is now. Heck, despite Microsoft's best efforts, a lot of people still don't have PC-compatible gamepads.

I get what you're saying about Sonic vs. Mario, but I feel like Mario is about jumping, you know? About finding new ways to make jumping stay interesting. That is the essence of a platformer to me. Sonic isn't about finding new ways to make jumping interesting and never has been. Sonic is about flow, and speed, and momentum. He's a living pinball.

Jumping is definitely an important part of Sonic's repertoire, as is jumping on platforms, but by that definition, Mega Man's a platformer, too. As is Castlevania. Sonic definitely hews closer to the genre's strictest definition than either of those two games, but I still wouldn't put it on the same level as Mario.

And the fact that Mario is more complex, as you say, is just further proof of that (remember: running extends Mario's jump height).

Exploration is fine, and exploration in Sonic CD would be fun, but environments feel too sloppy and too dense. They don't feel suited to Sonic's control scheme. And, all too often, you run in to scenarios where it feels like you can't actually backtrack somewhere without either taking the long way around or just outright killing yourself.

Plus, as I said in my Sonic CD 2013 review, all of the frustrating "Gotcha!" level design stuff everybody hated in the Sonic Advance games was actually born from Sonic CD. There are a lot of moments where you'll hit a spring and be blindly sent in to spikes, or an enemy, or something else hazardous. And too often you can get trapped in a scenario where you'll be sent to the wrong time zone on accident because the game trapped you in something that forces you to move at a certain speed for an extended length of time. The game likes to waste your time.

Don't get me wrong, it's not a terrible game, but I think it just receives an undue amount of praise.
 
N

Noray

Unconfirmed Member
1) Sonic 2
2) Sonic 1

There you go, all the good Sonic games
 
I appreciate the optimism of the thread title, but I don't think I can scrap together 10 Sonic games I care for. I like Sonic CD, Sonic Colours and Sonic and All Stars Racing Transformed, and I'd probably put them in that order.

The thing that put CD over the top, is that it's the only one where I felt motivated to explore. It's far too easy to go on auto-pilot and just zip past the entire stage without taking any of it in, which is basically what the majority of the series feels like. As time went on, they leaned in more and more into it and brought it to its natural roller-coaster conclusion. A lot of people told me Sonic works best if you approach it as a time-trial speedrun type of game, but I guess that type of game never appealed to me. Colours tried to mix things up by adding more involved power-ups, and they mostly work well. I don't know if All Stars Racing counts as a Sonic game, but it's just a great kart racer.
 
Of what I've played the only ones worth mentioning are Sonic, Sonic 2, Sonic Chaos (GG) and Sonic 3. Never played Sonic & Knuckles but I hear it was good too.

The GBA Sonic games just never worked for me.

The 3D shit though, ew.
 
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