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[redfox088]

yah. this isn't fair.

thanks, now you just ruined the s6 finale for me for thinking of this alternate
why can't HBO just give them a bigger budget??? they clearly would still profit from it

I still don't understand how Most technology gets better and cheaper as time goes on but CG, Battery, data size/transference just flatlined at the end of the last decade.

 

[Gnome]

Why do you keep trying to make this about her family, though? Arya being tamed is not about her love for her family, she wants to be with them again, going back to her "pack" doesn't tame her, just like Nymeria going back doesn't either. Nymeria going with humans is being tamed, Arya becoming a lady and going against her nature, like she asked Nymeria to do in this episode, is being tamed. The metaphor of being tamed doesn't crumble if she goes back to her family, it only crumbles because you're trying to make the metaphor in that scene something it wasn't. This is not a failing of the show or its writers, but you trying to see something that is not there.

The not being tamed stuff is fine. The problem is, again, if the scene is only meant to represent that nature of the character, it becomes pointless, banal, and over elaborative of something we know already. Hell it was established in season one when she chased Nym away the first time.

The other problem is that you can't erase the family representation of the wolf just because it's convenient for a scene in which you get rid of the wolf and try to wrap up a plot hole.

 

[Einchy]

The not being tamed stuff is fine. The problem is, again, if the scene is only meant to represent that nature of the character, it becomes pointless, banal, and over elaborative of something we know already. The other problem is that you can't erase the family representation of the wolf.

Why is it a problem that a scene was about Nymeria's character and how it mirrored Arya's? It wasn't pointless and we didn't already know how Nymeria had changed since season 1.

And your other problem is, once again, you trying to insert a metaphor that they weren't trying to convey. Every scene ever has problems if they don't tackle specific metaphors that I personally want.

[edit]

Plot hole? What plot hole? It's not a plot hole that Nymeria escaped and was abandoned in the woods for years.

 

[neurosisxeno]

No. The metaphor falls apart completely when you have a reunion of Arya with her family as representing her pack, and Nymeria choosing a different pack instead of going back to Arya. The extremis of the metaphor will only make sense if Arya doesn't reunite with the Starks in the end, but instead goes off with possibly the Brotherhood. Which may happen then I'll concede to the Wolf scene not being a waste.

The metaphor for the scene wasn't about packs, it was about Arya and Nymeria as singular characters. Nymeria did her own thing and had her own goals--just like Arya, who could have made her way back to Jon Snow but instead chose to go to Bravos and train with the Faceless Men. The wolves were always more analogous of the characters who owned them.

Maybe they will inevitably have Arya distance herself from the remaining Stark's, but it's more likely they just wanted to close the door on peoples speculation of what happened to Nymeria--they have kind of just been tying up loose threads since the beginning of Season 6. I think you're trying to put too much emphasis on somewhat of a throwaway scene to be honest. I doubt we see Nymeria again after this.

 

[Gnome]

Why is it a problem that a scene was about Nymeria's character and how it mirrored Arya's? It wasn't pointless and we didn't already know how Nymeria had changed since season 1.

And your other problem is, once again, you trying to insert a metaphor that they weren't trying to convey. Every scene ever has problems if they don't tackle specific metaphors that I personally want.

Nice try, but it's bad writing to ignore an ever present theme because you want to reiterate a point already made 1000 times over.

I'm not inserting anything, it's something that's always been there, the writers ignored it. It isn't my problem for not watching the show right, like wtf kind of argument is that lol.

Edit:
Thread, not hole, my bad.

 

[televator]

No. The metaphor falls apart completely when you have a reunion of Arya with her family as representing her pack, and Nymeria choosing a different pack instead of going back to Arya. The extremis of the metaphor will only make sense if Arya doesn't reunite with the Starks in the end, but instead goes off with possibly the Brotherhood. Which may happen then I'll concede to the Wolf scene not being a waste.

What in the fuck...? No. The metaphor holds true because the Starks are literally represented by wolves. It's their sigil, they are referred to as wolves, and each of their "pet" wolves share personal traits and experiences.

 

[B-Dubs]

The whole point of the scene is how much Arya's changed and how her old family isn't going to recognize the person she became. It's foreshadowing.

 

[Einchy]

Nice try.

Yeah, that's about all I can say to everything you've said so far.

 

[neurosisxeno]

What in the fuck...? No. The metaphor holds true because the Starks are literally represented by wolves. It's their sigil, they are referred to as wolves, and each of their "pet" wolves share personal traits and experiences.

Well if we want to be literal and pedantic, the sigil of House Stark is a Direwolf. Their pet Direwolves shared characteristics of the children that owned them, and the scene with Nymeria and Arya was no different. Nymeria had forged her own life just as Arya has, and refused to adhear to the expectations presented before them.

The whole point of the scene is how much Arya's changed and how her old family isn't going to recognize the person she became. It's foreshadowing.

Also this. Arya is going to be nearly unrecognizable to her remaining siblings, and if they knew the things she had done they probably would reject her...

 

[Gnome]

What in the fuck...? No. The metaphor holds true because the Starks are literally represented by wolves. It's their sigil, they are referred to as wolves, and each of their "pet" wolves share personal traits and experiences.

Maybe, just maybe, they also represent their relationship to the rest of the family? Which is why Ghost is silent, has red eyes, was born a runt and found outside the rest of the pack? Or why Lady died after Sansa sold out Arya in favor of Jofferey?

The whole point of the scene is how much Arya's changed and how her old family isn't going to recognize the person she became. It's foreshadowing.

This is acceptable if the show doesn't turn it into some happy reunion.

 

[The Artisan]

I still don't understand how Most technology gets better and cheaper as time goes on but CG, Battery, data size/transference just flatlined at the end of the last decade.

if CG never got easier to buy, then HBO should just buy more of it for Thrones because they'll still make a ton of money with it, and it'll be an even greater spectacle. How much more would a couple of direwolves even be? They're smaller and less detailed than dragons, so..

 

[televator]

Maybe, just maybe, they also represent their relationship to the rest of the family? Which is why Ghost is silent, has red eyes, was born a runt and found outside the rest of the pack? Or why Lady died after Sansa sold out Arya in favor of Jofferey?



This is acceptable if the show doesn't turn it into some happy reunion.

Well if we want to be literal and pedantic, the sigil of House Stark is a Direwolf. Their pet Direwolves shared characteristics of the children that owned them, and the scene with Nymeria and Arya was no different. Nymeria had forged her own life just as Arya has, and refused to adhear to the expectations presented before them.

Neither of you are even arguing against me here. WTF are you doing? Your points bolster my side.

 

[The Artisan]

Well if we want to be literal and pedantic, the sigil of House Stark is a Direwolf. Their pet Direwolves shared characteristics of the children that owned them, and the scene with Nymeria and Arya was no different. Nymeria had forged her own life just as Arya has, and refused to adhear to the expectations presented before them.



Also this. Arya is going to be nearly unrecognizable to her remaining siblings, and if they knew the things she had done they probably would reject her...

I don't know about that. Sansa looked pretty content with the fate Jon left for Ramsay. She might not feel content the same way about what Arya did to the Freys, maybe she needs time to digest what's happened to her; they both do.

 

[redfox088]

i feel like, Jon's direwolf itself was a clue at his Targaryen heritage. All the other direwolves had mixed coats, but Jon's was all white, like the Targaryen's hair

yes!

And fire red eyes....it was the runt of the litter and probably albino. It's name is ghost...maybe referencing how he sees himself while living as a bastard...how the hell did I miss such easy hints????!! Lady for Sansa and her naive and superficial quest to be a trophy wife , Nymeria the warrior for Arya. Grey wind...Strong yet expressionless son of the lord who must act by code and never act on personal desire despite him wanting him(and killing him when he acted on such whims). Summer for Brans innocence that ultimately leads to fall and winter. And ShaggyDog, an uninspired name for an irrelevant character

 

[Gnome]

Neither of you are even arguing against me here. WTF are you doing? Your points bolster my side.

Never argued that the wolves don't represent the Starks, but that they're representation to the Starks isn't individualistic in nature and are, when brought to their conclusions, dependent on the relationships to the other wolves.

I was told it's wrong to expect a pivotal scene with Arya and her wolf to play to the metaphor in this way.

 

[The Artisan]

And fire red eyes....it was the runt of the litter and probably albino. It's name is ghost...maybe referencing how he sees himself while living as a bastard...how the hell did I miss such easy hints????!! Lady for Sansa and her naive and superficial quest to be a trophy wife , Nymeria the warrior for Arya. Grey wind...Strong yet expressionless son of the lord who must act by code and never act on personal desire despite him wanting him(and killing him when he acted on such whims). Summer for Brans innocence that ultimately leads to fall and winter. And ShaggyDog, an uninspired name for an irrelevant character

lmao!

 

[Gnome]

And fire red eyes....it was the runt of the litter and probably albino. It's name is ghost...maybe referencing how he sees himself while living as a bastard...how the hell did I miss such easy hints????!! Lady for Sansa and her naive and superficial quest to be a trophy wife , Nymeria the warrior for Arya. Grey wind...Strong yet expressionless son of the lord who must act by code and never act on personal desire despite him wanting him(and killing him when he acted on such whims). Summer for Brans innocence that ultimately leads to fall and winter. And ShaggyDog, an uninspired name for an irrelevant character

ShaggyDog actually has more meaning than that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaggy_dog_story

He's suppose to be about expectation reversal. So him being a pointless background character is what was meant to likely be reversed. It never got there in the show though. They just decided to kill him.

 

[Herne]

And fire red eyes....it was the runt of the litter and probably albino. It's name is ghost...maybe referencing how he sees himself while living as a bastard...how the hell did I miss such easy hints????!! Lady for Sansa and her naive and superficial quest to be a trophy wife , Nymeria the warrior for Arya. Grey wind...Strong yet expressionless son of the lord who must act by code and never act on personal desire despite him wanting him(and killing him when he acted on such whims). Summer for Brans innocence that ultimately leads to fall and winter. And ShaggyDog, an uninspired name for an irrelevant character

Rickon had no part to play but he was still interesting. He may have have something akin to Bran's gift (green dreams) as when Bran found him wandering the crypt below Winterfell, he said something about Ned and Catelyn returning soon. Rickon shook his head, said firmly and without doubt that they wouldn't and wandered off further into the dark crypt with Shaggydog.

 

[televator]

Never argued that the wolves don't represent the Starks, but that they're representation to the Starks isn't individualistic in nature and are, when brought to their conclusions, dependent on the relationships to the other wolves.

I was told it's wrong to expect a pivotal scene with Arya and her wolf to play to the metaphor in this way.

You're arguing that their "representation isn't individualistic"... by giving me examples of how they individually represented the Stark children? Ooookay...

 

[Gnome]

You're arguing that their "representation isn't individualistic"... by giving me examples of how they individually represented the Stark children? Ooookay...

Those examples highlight how their individual traits relate to the relationship of the set or "the pack". The moments and symbolisms don't work without the other Starks as characters.

 

[Curufinwe]

The wolf scene is fine and makes sense but it was made because they didn't want a giant ass cg wolf next to arya the rest of the season.

The easiest way to not have a CG wolf the rest of the season would have been to not bring Nymeria back at all.

 

[Epix]

Game of Thrones Bloopers (Seasons 1-6)

 

[Vashetti]

Bryan Cogman tweeted that they filmed a Jon/Ghost scene for the latest ep but it got cut.

Also, the wolves aren't created with CGI like the dragons. They're actual animals filmed on a green screen and appropriately scaled up to their proper size (like any scene with giants).

In many ways, they're more complex than dragon scenes because they have to get the appropriate reactions out of the animals to match up with the actors. With CGI dragons they can make them do whatever they want.

 

[LordKasual]

Only a fool would do anything different with this black scaled monstrosity looming over them. Balerion makes Drogon look like Ser Pounce.

yeah fuck that

might as well have had Bahamut on his side

 

[The Artisan]

Bryan Cogman tweeted that they filmed a Jon/Ghost scene for the latest ep but it got cut.

Also, the wolves aren't created with CGI like the dragons. They're actual animals filmed on a green screen and appropriately scaled up to their proper size (like any scene with giants).

In many ways, they're more complex than dragon scenes because they have to get the appropriate reactions out of the animals to match up with the actors. With CGI dragons they can make them do whatever they want.

there's gotta be some more cgi involved with ghost otherwise how easy is it to find a real albino wolf out there

 

[lastplayed]

Game of Thrones Bloopers (Seasons 1-6)

Damn Pedro almost had his head set on fire.

 

[The Artisan]

Only a fool would do anything different with this black scaled monstrosity looming over them. Balerion makes Drogon look like Ser Pounce.

that kinda looks like a dinosaur skull. dragons are related to dinosaurs? dragons are dinosaurs?

 

[J2 Cool]

Surprised people have an issue with the Arya/Nymeria scene. Thought it was the best scene in the episode. Jorah/Sam was my other favorite stuff

Found Varys/Daenerys to be a really weird, contrived argument. Something that probably should have happened last season. And all the making alliances scenes were sort of simple, and on the nose. While Euron fight was enjoyable enough, him traveling that amount of distance, and the convenience of them finding each other so soon kinda hurt it.

Im starting to question if we couldn't have used 10 eps for this and next season. Feels like a lot of characters threads still to be tied up. So much of the series is about foreshadowing, and Im a little worried we might not spend much time when we get there.

Still enjoyable. Only a couple scenes/dialogues here and there bother me, but this series already set such a high standard from its early seasons. Also, not super feeling Euron. He's just so comic booky this season. Not sure he sits well next to say Ramsay right now.

 

[The Artisan]

i wonder if that's the last we will see of Sam & Jorah together and the next time we see Jorah would be at Dragonstone to get back to Dany. It would be nice to see them together one last time before they go their separate ways.

Seeing as how Randyl Tarly is gonna be an important character this season, I'd like Sam to say something on the lines of "I'm sorry things weren't cool between you and your father, ser. But lord commander Jeor was like a father to me, more than my real father ever was."

 

[victreeb3l]

A wolf and a dragon in one scene!? HBO just went bankrupt because of that sentence.

Theyve made billions already, they can spare a few millions!

I'm expecting this next season however. Just straight up epicness. HBO better not drop the ball.

 

[Venture]

Surprised people have an issue with the Arya/Nymeria scene. Thought it was the best scene in the episode. Jorah/Sam was my other favorite stuff

Found Varys/Daenerys to be a really weird, contrived argument. Something that probably should have happened last season. And all the making alliances scenes were sort of simple, and on the nose. While Euron fight was enjoyable enough, him traveling that amount of distance, and the convenience of them finding each other so soon kinda hurt it.

Im starting to question if we couldn't have used 10 eps for this and next season. Feels like a lot of characters threads still to be tied up. So much of the series is about foreshadowing, and Im a little worried we might not spend much time when we get there.

Still enjoyable. Only a couple scenes/dialogues here and there both me, but this series already set such a high standard from its early seasons. Also, not super feeling Euron. He's just so comic booky this season. Not sure he sits well next to say Ramsay right now.

Agree with pretty much all this. Apparently Dany and crew just stood silently on the deck of the ship for the whole trip to Dragonstone. You'd think there would've been a lot of time for conversation.

 

[The Artisan]

Ramsay would be a GTA protagonist.

 

[Heshinsi]

I wonder if Jorah is going to end up looking like Shireen's face? He's going to fit in with Dany with scales all over.

Aren't his scales being ripped off though? So he shouldn't end up like Shireen.

I'm sure she'll take down the Mountain with ease

Thank god this amatuer hour joke of a plotline is nearly done with.

I also think they aren't just killing humans. I have a feeling that the dragons will turn out to be the 'evil' things.

That makes no sense. The Valyrians discovered Dragons 1000 years ago. Aegon and his wives invaded Westeros with 3 dragons 300 years ago. Yet the the Long Night happened 7000-8000 years before any of this. The Children of the Forest created the White Walkers to kill the First Men. They're coming back to finish the job.

 

[Jombie]

Im starting to question if we couldn't have used 10 eps for this and next season. Feels like a lot of characters threads still to be tied up. So much of the series is about foreshadowing, and Im a little worried we might not spend much time when we get there.

With the episodes moving as quickly as they are, it's really going to undermine some things. Euron is fun, but he's another mustache twirler and it feels too late in the game for him to really be there. The battle scene having no set up and Euron no real characterization cheapens what would have been a much more satisfying experience. Because of stuff like that, this season is going to require a larger suspension of disbelief.

I just hope the remaining episodes feel more polished and even. They're bolting for the finish line and the writing is suffering for it so far.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Titus Pullo ended up homeless?

 

[FStubbs]

Bryan Cogman tweeted that they filmed a Jon/Ghost scene for the latest ep but it got cut.

Also, the wolves aren't created with CGI like the dragons. They're actual animals filmed on a green screen and appropriately scaled up to their proper size (like any scene with giants).

In many ways, they're more complex than dragon scenes because they have to get the appropriate reactions out of the animals to match up with the actors. With CGI dragons they can make them do whatever they want.

I still find it cool that even though Sansa and Lady couldn't be together in the show, they're together IRL as Sophie Turner adopted the dog that played Lady.

 

[Heshinsi]

I shouldn't have laughed...but I did.

Yep. At the end of the day, Jon is the only one who gets it. Who has his focus where it needs to be. For the past few seasons, he has made me not give a shit about the iron throne, because just like Jon, I understand that shit means nothing in the grand scheme of things. The White Walkers are coming.

Jon is also the only person in a position of power to actually see the White Walkers and their army. Dany has probably never even heard of White Walkers, and I'm pretty sure Mel didn't tell her about them yet. Cersei and the other non Northern lords and ladies still think they're nothing more than ghost stories. Now why the Citadel seems to not care is what I want to know.

Yep. By Westerosi standards, Jon & Daenerys would be looked badly due to being Aunt/Nephew. They'd be totally cool with him marrying Sansa or Arya though since cousins are accepted. Tywin actually married his cousin in fact.

Not exactly. The Targaryens seemed to have been keeping to that tradition even to their last king. I think people in Westeros just go, "well it's a Targ thing" whenever they do it.

And he was known as "The King who Knelt" ever since. Jon might bent the knee just so he can save the world and beat The Night King, we know Jon isn't above his ego, but everyone in the North would feel Jon betrayed them.

He's also known as the King who didn't face the same calamity as Harrenhall lol.

They really weren't happy when he told them he was leaving Winterfell, though. Like, they understand why the Wildings are there now, but him giving the North to Dany seems like it's betraying everything they believe in. He was only able to calm them down once he told them he was going to leave Sansa there, a Stark, to look over things.

Even his biggest fangirl, Lady Mormont, was not feeling this whole plan.

I can't wait to see their faces when Jon's true parentage is revealed. If him meeting up with Dany has some of them this jumpy, imagine when they find out that standing before them is Prince Rhaegar Targaryen's own flesh and blood. "Ah Sansa, we changed our minds!"

i don't know where i read this so it could be b.s but i heard dragons just keep growing as long as they can go flying and do as they please. more likely is that they reach max size.

although, i do recall Tyrion saying that their growth is stunted if they're trapped inside, like the prisoners Viserion & Rhaegon were.

Drogan was getting bigger than the other two even before they got to Mereen though. I think genetics plays a role as well.

 

[Einchy]

He's also known as the King who didn't face the same calamity as Harrenhall lol.

That was def the right call there but it sounds like his people never really forgave him. It's kinda like Prince Doran didn't want to go to war for just his own brother, since it would mean thousands of people die, but his people wanted revenge.

Also, to your other point about Jon's father, I think that's exactly why Bran won't say anything to him. Jon feels like the type of dumbass to tell them the truth just to be honorable, like his now fake-daddy.

 

[Aikidoka]

That wolf scene looked cheap as fuck - pretty disappointing. that whole Euron raid just makes Dany and crew look extremely incompetent.

 

[Heshinsi]

That was def the right call there but it sounds like his people never really forgave him. It's kinda like Prince Doran didn't want to go to war for just his own brother, since it would mean thousands of people die, but his people wanted revenge.

Also, to your other point about Jon's father, I think that's exactly why Bran won't say anything to him. Jon feels like the type of dumbass to tell them the truth just to be honorable, like his now fake-daddy.

Hahaha if the North had Sand Snake equivalents back then, the Stark King would have been murdered for saving his people, they would have then started a war with Aegon, and he would have just did this:

Man I really love how smart Tyrion is. The best Hand ever.

Sorry if this has been posted earlier.

 

[Jombie]

That wolf scene looked cheap as fuck - pretty disappointing. that whole Euron raid just makes Dany and crew look extremely incompetent.

I think it's going to fall apart for them rather quickly.

 

[B-Dubs]

That was def the right call there but it sounds like his people never really forgave him. It's kinda like Prince Doran didn't want to go to war for just his own brother, since it would mean thousands of people die, but his people wanted revenge.

Also, to your other point about Jon's father, I think that's exactly why Bran won't say anything to him. Jon feels like the type of dumbass to tell them the truth just to be honorable, like his now fake-daddy.

He might wind up telling Sansa and she'll have him keep it secret.

 

[demosthenes]

What was going on in that scene with Arya and wolves?

Jon is going to pay for striking Littlefinger like that. Ned Starks downfall was very similar.

Euron is an awesome character. But, how is he alive? One of the snakes stabs his groin with a dagger. Still cool character.

Arya realized that Nymeria had moved on and was wild now. She couldn't be a pet again.

 

[Dai101]

Man I really love how smart Tyrion is. The best Hand ever.

He certainly was doing (or at least TRYING TO) something for KL and their people.

 

[Heisenberg]

I'm sure this has been posted a ton of times, but what exactly was the rationale for cutting the last 2 seasons so short? Budget? Time? It's so confusing to have this epic series wrap up with these episodes that feel like cliff notes.

 

[Hydrus]

I'm sure this has been posted a ton of times, but what exactly was the rationale for cutting the last 2 seasons so short? Budget? Time? It's so confusing to have this epic series wrap up with these episodes that feel like cliff notes.

Agree. They better have two insane episodes to end the season, because these first two seem pretty weak and so far it looks like there should of been no reason not to make this 10 episodes instead of 7. These first two episodes feel rushed.

 

[Cornballer]

I'm sure this has been posted a ton of times, but what exactly was the rationale for cutting the last 2 seasons so short? Budget? Time? It's so confusing to have this epic series wrap up with these episodes that feel like cliff notes.

From the OP:

Why are there only 7 episodes this season and 6 episodes for the final season?

The scope and scale of the show has increased significantly from where things began, and they don't have the time, money, and other resources to produce more episodes in a year. After Season 6, Benioff and Weiss felt that 13 episodes would be enough to conclude the story, and crafting 7 one year and 6 the next fit the production timeline that they could achieve. Keep in mind that the episodes in season 7 are going to be longer than average, and the 7th episode of will be 81 minutes long.

 

[LukasTaves]

3. The Cersei giant crossbow complaint is a pure nitpick. "It totally should have been invented by now!" is massive reaching and I think we all know it.

I don't know why everyone is hung up on the "it should be invented by now" and are missing how just like anything with the show lately it's just conveniently discovered just as needed.

It's even the same plot device they used last season. "Oh Cersei you are in danger? Here's a solution I just happen to come by". And this time we even got a scene with them targeting the skulls of a dead dragon, to make the dumb and obvious writing even more obvious.

For a show that cared so much about details and actually developing stuff for more than just the next few episodes this is very disappointing. Had they about two seasons ago had a scene with the science guy asking permission to develop new weapons, and then last season had a scene with him showing some of them (without the dumbing let's shoot the dragon in the head) the payoff for them actually using the weapon now would be so much better.

Edit :

From the OP:

Jesus, next season will be even more rushed then?

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

I hate the accelerated pacing of these later seasons. It just feels like such a downgrade.

With that in mind, I'm still enjoying the show, but it isn't hitting the same highs it did before.

that kinda looks like a dinosaur skull. dragons are related to dinosaurs? dragons are dinosaurs?

I was struck by how much the smaller skulls looked like the skull of a Dracorex.

 

[The Artisan]

I was struck by how much the smaller skulls looked like the skull of a Dracorex.

had to look up dracorex