SurrenderDorothy
Banned
Just one thing, it was Tyrion's plan though, lol.
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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT2| Season 7 - [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
Just one thing, it was Tyrion's plan though, lol.
I was kinda disappointed overall with the episode to be honest.
The good
+The Fellowship had some amazing banter. Tormound had me laughing at several points.
+The cgi is amazing. GoT's dragons continues to put all other TV/movies to shame.
+The cinematography was gorgeous as usual.
+I like the continued rift between Tyrion and Dany. I could see Tyrion being fed up with her impulsions and abandoning her (but not for Cersei).
The bad
-Arya's turn as pyschopath was a bit much. What's her end game? She specifically had a kill list that she seemed to have abandoned, and now she's willing to kill anyone just to quench her bloodlust and defend the Stark's name.
-The action wasn't exciting. It was just a bunch of close up hack n slash. We were just blessed with the amazing Loot Train attack a few episodes back, so this was several steps back.
-The passage of time is terrible and yes it is a legitimate criticism.
-Why did Dany take all of her dragons this time around? She only took 1 for the Lannister attack where she knew for sure danger would be. For all she knew, this could've been a trap.
-Red shirts galore. That was plain The Walking Dead bad. The writers are better than this.
-Too many cliche last second saves. From Tormound being saved to the dragons coming to the rescue to uncle Ben showing up outta nowhere.
-The Night King's javelin toss looked weak AF.
-Where did the white walkers get those huge chains? Pretty convenient to carry around.
-The fellowship was only what, 9 deep? Minus the red shirts, it seemed they could hold most of the white walkers down. Got me thinking it wouldn't have took a huge army to combat the white walkers. Of course, that now changes with zombie dragon.
This has been the weakest penultimate seasonal episode so far imo.
The good
+The Fellowship had some amazing banter. Tormound had me laughing at several points.
+The cgi is amazing. GoT's dragons continues to put all other TV/movies to shame.
+The cinematography was gorgeous as usual.
+I like the continued rift between Tyrion and Dany. I could see Tyrion being fed up with her impulsions and abandoning her (but not for Cersei).
The bad
-Arya's turn as pyschopath was a bit much. What's her end game? She specifically had a kill list that she seemed to have abandoned, and now she's willing to kill anyone just to quench her bloodlust and defend the Stark's name.
-The action wasn't exciting. It was just a bunch of close up hack n slash. We were just blessed with the amazing Loot Train attack a few episodes back, so this was several steps back.
-The passage of time is terrible and yes it is a legitimate criticism.
-Why did Dany take all of her dragons this time around? She only took 1 for the Lannister attack where she knew for sure danger would be. For all she knew, this could've been a trap.
-Red shirts galore. That was plain The Walking Dead bad. The writers are better than this.
-Too many cliche last second saves. From Tormound being saved to the dragons coming to the rescue to uncle Ben showing up outta nowhere.
-The Night King's javelin toss looked weak AF.
-Where did the white walkers get those huge chains? Pretty convenient to carry around.
-The fellowship was only what, 9 deep? Minus the red shirts, it seemed they could hold most of the white walkers down. Got me thinking it wouldn't have took a huge army to combat the white walkers. Of course, that now changes with zombie dragon.
This has been the weakest penultimate seasonal episode so far imo.
Ninja Scooter
Member
The fact that a group of like 6 dudes effectively held off an army of like a thousand dead dudes did a solid 5+ minutes doesn't make the army of the dead seem like all that much of a threat.
cartographer
Member
Even more impressive when one of the dudes was just swinging a spear around at nothing.
MisterShine
Member
I'll be honest, if all of this was a NK trap I will be pleased. A lot of things are too particular otherwise to make sense.
I said the same damn thing last season though with the end of Arya's training and I was wrong there.
I said the same damn thing last season though with the end of Arya's training and I was wrong there.
John's plan is so fucking stupid, so utterly ridiculous that whatever traveling science you can bring up, you cant save this episode and the writers from writing this bullshit.
Think about John's plan.
Really, think about it.
Now think how many people thought it was a good idea too....
Also, if I understood it correctly, didnt the episode imply that if you kill the Night King its really game over, the army of the dead is gone? Danny was up there with three Dragons... she could have ended the thing right there and there... but no....
Come on... its so many things, its just stupid.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
The Army of the Dead are commanded by the NK, he had his army, spears and WWs by his side.
He didn't attack, it was deliberate. Because he was waiting for a bloody dragon.
Why else would he leave with his army and collect some chains he had on standby?
Should be obvious.
It's a trap, just as he set Bran up while waiting for him to appear before his attack on their cave.
He interrupts Bran's visions whenever he gets close, his powers are similar.
Every attack of his has gone according to plan, he sees ahead.
He didn't attack, it was deliberate. Because he was waiting for a bloody dragon.
Why else would he leave with his army and collect some chains he had on standby?
Should be obvious.
It's a trap, just as he set Bran up while waiting for him to appear before his attack on their cave.
He interrupts Bran's visions whenever he gets close, his powers are similar.
Every attack of his has gone according to plan, he sees ahead.
If you want a real narrative leap, look at how they conveniently find a small band of wights and one White Walker, away from the rest of the horde for some unexplained reason, and then when the Walker is killed, all the wights die except one, luckily. Exactly what they came for just falls into their lap.
That's lazy.
That's lazy.
There ain't no lips moving here.
DeviantBoi
Member
Any word on the numbers for last night?
I imagine that the leak won't put a dent in them. People still end up watching it again with others who maybe hadn't seen it.
I imagine that the leak won't put a dent in them. People still end up watching it again with others who maybe hadn't seen it.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
Or.........it was a trap, one wight that wasn't part of that particular WW's squad. Just when they thought they got one he screams and signals the rest of the army.
Dunno. What would have been your plan when nobody believes you and only other morons do that talk shit all the time and drink? I mean yeah, a raven would have been good and not running to the enemy too, but otherwise?
It's like people complain about the Nightking because he was just waiting.
He was obviously waiting for Dany her dragons so he could get one to take down the wall.
Also this, like with many other cases before that. It's not random - it seems to be planned all along.
Imperfected
Member
I will say in their defense: basically everyone that Jon convinced to go along with his plan is a suicidal dumbass.
I mean, honestly, Tormund's probably got the best survival instincts of the lot, and that guy fucks bears.
SealedSeven
Neo Member
Dany had never seen the Ice King before. First time she looked at him was when he was coming with the second spear.
Agent Gibbs
Member
The flash back left out that, but Cersei herself has said it, people are asking about where the whole Jamie killing Cersei is coming from, context is everything
She's had only three surviving children, the unnamed child of hers and Roberts is unknown even in the books, its insinuated he didn't live long, days if anything, but i'll give you that it calls the validity of the prophecy into question, but easily explained away in semantics, She has had three children, she never had that child it was one of Roberts
I assumed as much myself, he wants a dragon. But then... the army of the dead starts marching to kill John and Co. when they realize that the ground is safe to walk. Which is in complete direct contradiction to that.
Gunslinger
Member
Was last night's episode the worse GoT episode ever? But it's quite clear now this show needed another two seasons. This whole season should have been two seasons. Clearly lot of story still left but not enough episode to cram it all in.
The Night King should invest in more giant bears.
How about the undead giants that were shown a season or two back? They probably could have pulled the dragon out much easier and not needed hundreds of feet of heavy chain.
I think either some people have really low expectations for current GoT or their bar for quality writing is "better than a CW show."
GoT season 7 has been total crap compared to other seasons this year like Better Call Saul S3, The Leftovers S3, The Handmaid's Tale S1 and even Legion, Fargo, Master of None...
Hell, I enjoyed the drama of Baskets season 2 more.
All merits of this season of GoT are heavily propped up by the better writing that came before it.
GoT season 7 has been total crap compared to other seasons this year like Better Call Saul S3, The Leftovers S3, The Handmaid's Tale S1 and even Legion, Fargo, Master of None...
Hell, I enjoyed the drama of Baskets season 2 more.
All merits of this season of GoT are heavily propped up by the better writing that came before it.
First of all the plan was Tyrion's plan, not Jon.
As soon as Jon receives the raven from Bran he was going to leave and go either to Wintefell or East Watch.
His plan was I am going cause I have to no matter what. Tyrion then came up with the plan.
All of this could have simply been addressed by saying Ok Jon you can go, here take some of my men (not all since I can't stop my war with Cersei), and go fight these creatures that I don't even think exist.
The capture of a WW could have been something that just happens as a result of the group fighting the WWs.
As soon as Jon receives the raven from Bran he was going to leave and go either to Wintefell or East Watch.
His plan was I am going cause I have to no matter what. Tyrion then came up with the plan.
All of this could have simply been addressed by saying Ok Jon you can go, here take some of my men (not all since I can't stop my war with Cersei), and go fight these creatures that I don't even think exist.
The capture of a WW could have been something that just happens as a result of the group fighting the WWs.
Robdraggoo
Member
What I was thinking earlier in the episode is that when one of the red shirts died fighting the bear, why didn't they just wait for him to turn and use him, then they get attacked on thier way back.
But that's explained later by the scene you mentioned.
But doesn't explain that in season 1, they bring a wight through the wall. If it takes a white walker to turn them, then how was that guy found just somewhere.
You literally believe that this was the best plan? I am sorry but I can think at least 10 better plans. And another 10 better scenarios to have that setpiece battle that the writers really really really wanted.
As for the "he wants a Dragon" I have replied before. They start marching an attack before the dragons arrive...
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
Not really, it's not like the NK has any use for Jon and co. It's the dragon he wanted.
What would be a contradiction to what I said is if he started dashing javelins at them, but he didn't.
Though I should adjust what I said then, clearly the AOTD did attack.
Imperfected
Member
You'd think he'd have access to basically all the bears.
The only reason he wouldn't have them already is if he tried and the bears kicked his ass, so now he's fleeing south to escape the bears.
DarKshodaN
Member
man just watched the last episode, and it was really bad 
what the hell happend to game of thrones
what the hell happend to game of thrones
WordsintheWater
Member
Man, the nitpicking is getting over bearing, there's some legitimate concerns, but some of this stuff is just way too much.
MisterShine
Member
You mean about ten minutes before the dragons get there? Just enough to soften up the heroes and make them feel overwhelmed but not enough to actually kill them all? Forcing them to not see what the Night King was up to the whole time with hisice Spears? Coincidence?!
it better not be
Two guys agreed to adapt someone else's exceptionally large epic fantasy series, then that someone fucking bailed on them when it came to put it all together to make a proper finale. Now they're obviously floundering and trying their best, which isn't that great.
Gunslinger
Member
And not a single giant was spotted in night king army last night even though they show in the beginning of the season he had a few Giants.
Just finished the ep and this is the first time I have actually been bothered by the amount of pure convenience and time skipping.
I've been able to ignore this kind of thing for a while, and kind of enjoy it. But in this ep it really stood out and ruined a lot of the enjoyment for me.
I'm sure when I read back this thread the above will have been pointed out 100 times, but oh well. I still enjoyed the ep but it's kind of disappointing.
I don't really blame the creators that much, they've got so little time to work with and the author hasn't finished the damn books.
Also Jon is a stupid fuck.
- Gendry running to the wall, a raven flying down to Dany and Dany flying all the way back and finding them while they stand on a rock
- How did one White magically survive that ambush when all the others died?
- The chain
- Dragons ex Machina, Benjen ex Machina. In the same episode.
I've been able to ignore this kind of thing for a while, and kind of enjoy it. But in this ep it really stood out and ruined a lot of the enjoyment for me.
I'm sure when I read back this thread the above will have been pointed out 100 times, but oh well. I still enjoyed the ep but it's kind of disappointing.
I don't really blame the creators that much, they've got so little time to work with and the author hasn't finished the damn books.
Also Jon is a stupid fuck.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
Lol, it's not that far-fetched to believe that he knew what was happening.
RustyNails
Member
It seems like D&D want to rush the thing to end. If HBO had their way GoT would run for 20 seasons but these two seem like they're tired of GRRM's world and want to move on to different things (Confederate) or maybe find stuff to do in Hollywood.
Also dont understand how GRRM was ok with this episode.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
Little Finger
I don't understand how anyone in line from pitch to shooting was ok with the plan of this episode. People should have been legitimately laughing at the concept.
i rather have none than half of the books spent on traveling :-(
Not that this was the best plan, but Jon didn't have many other choices. Nobody believes him except the people that saw for themselves. You have a group of idiots where two believe just know they have to do this (visions, destiny again), one who saw that ice mountain in his vision who doesn't do anything with his life, one who is young, the fastest runner and that has nothing better to do, a good fighter who does everything for his queen and Torbmund who is an expert in survival. These were the people that took him serious enough.
Also it's not like we don't know that Jon is an idiot. Jon is an idiot for the whole series.
But he is also somebody who doesn't really know what he has to do except for killing the White Walkers.
I know where you are coming from and there could have been many different scenarios to change the whole thing, but some of these things seem like an obvious trap (like that wight group not being near the horde, that was planned) and the Nightking not immediately killing them with spears and arrows seemed planned too.
How they got trapped on the little island? Morons, but I am not surprised because it's a group of morons. I mean c'mon, drunkard, revived one eyed guy, the rower, the wildling who is stupid, Jorah who immediately wants to die after being cured, the hound who doesn't even know what god wants from him and who obviously is not a clever man and god damn Jon. The guy who got killed by his own people.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
Lmfao, instead of having that stupid scene with Arya and Sansa towards the end of the episode we should have seen Bran.
For a guy who is so powerful he hasn't been around that much.
SealedSeven
Neo Member
He's probably stuck in the snow by the tree.
Nah, it's pretty bad. People are allowed to be disappointed when something they really like turns to shit.
Just don't read the thread if it hurts.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Yeah, the whole plan to go North was just stupid from the get go.
If Dany wanted to see it, and she could go so fast as she showed in this ep.. then she could have done that with no needless wait.
Also, Jon not getting on the dragon but continuing to fight... the dude deserves to be dead with how stupid he is over and over and over again.
If Dany wanted to see it, and she could go so fast as she showed in this ep.. then she could have done that with no needless wait.
Also, Jon not getting on the dragon but continuing to fight... the dude deserves to be dead with how stupid he is over and over and over again.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Wasn't that the dragon glass dagger that Sam gave him or am I completely misremembering something?
UnemployedVillain
Member
Maybe it was just me (and my friends), but on their hike before being surrounded by whitewalkers I feel like we had 2-3 people die and I swear it was the same generic no name in a hood over and over.
Honestly I'm not so sure about that. It actually feels like the story itself is paced about correctly: that is, it's really barebones and lacking any kind of depth, interest or nuance and really shouldn't sit any longer than 7 episodes. It's the sense of scale/distances/time that are grossly suffering as a result, and that's a huge problem, but I don't know if spreading these 7 eps into 20 would do the actual story any favours. It would still be a tired, cliched love story, a meandering, unearned fetch quest, a petty sibling rivalry and a bored, wooden queen, just spread over a longer, more unbearable period.
Why then dont start the attack the moment Gendry is out of sight? Why engage in a 3 days staring contest?
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
Beats me, the writing is tripe. I'm just trying to salvage it.