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Game Theory: Flappy Bird explains why Wii U isn't selling
- Thread starter Tom Nook Sawyer
- Start date
There's two sides to youtube. Two Best Friends playing NSMBU was great. They were having great fun. Nintendo stopped them from uploading a full playthrough or something but they didn't make them take down the videos they already had. I think it was because the guy with the gamepad was constantly trolling the other players and making the game look undesireable or something. In their 3D World video they said something about Nintendo not liking it when they got angry with each other while playing their games.
On the other hand a channel like Game Grumps is a toss up. Arin let's his nostalgia get the best of him and he was shitting over NSMBWii constantly when they were playing it. They recently played Wind Waker HD, which they were pretty bad at but were more positive about it. They went for 48 videos though and made it to the Earth Temple.
Then you got channels like Gamexplain which have hours of analysis of current Nintendo footage.
And I see Pewdiepie made some Wii U videos.
Objectively Bad Opinion
Member
He has a point. Why does Nintendo hate internet communities in a time when every one of their contemporaries has realized how much leg work they put in?
Type " Wii U (insert preferred game) walktrough" into youtube. Be surprised.
themagicalkitsune
Member
Can these game theory guys just go away forever? They're pretty much confirmation bias: the youtube channel.
Except when they don't?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxlOOYz-xzk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjShcaf9jOY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUNm816QUOE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XxQf7k8Ln4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arzJwipWvfQ
Maybe Nintendo disabled Game Theory's ability to search for evidence that didn't confirm their preconceived conclusion.
Haven't watched the video, but what does it mean lack of YouTube support..? There's a YouTube app and the browser is even better than that. Am I missing something obvious..?/
They mean supporting the YouTube community and/or using the klout of popular YouTube channels to spread the word about their products.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
I think there's a glaring flaw in this argument. The 3DS.
If Nintendo's Youtube stance was to blame, the 3DS wouldn't have sold 40m.
If Nintendo's Youtube stance was to blame, the 3DS wouldn't have sold 40m.
Yeah, this.
Just admit it guys, there is no redemption for the WiiU. The sooner they kill it off and move on to a new and more compelling product, the better.
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, but just pointing out that Nintendo didn't have enact their current YouTube policy until well after the 3DS's release
SolidSnakex
Member
Is there any actual evidence that Youtube personalities have a big effect on games or consoles that have million dollar marketing campaigns? They're helpful when you're talking about indie games where the developers don't have any money to market the games on their own. So, any additional exposure is a big help. But what is a Youtube personality going to do to help NSMBU, Zelda or 3D World sell more units? Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that it wouldn't help. I just don't think it'd make a big difference. I know EA made a big Youtube push with Battlefield 4, and that ended up selling worse than BF3.
Flippy Bird might have been the hot new fad game of the moment but it's success can hardly explain much of anything.
As for Pew...I congratulate his success but that's about it.
The failure of the Wii U can only be blamed on Nintendo and it's overall attitude that seems to have learned all the wrong lessons for the past few years.
As for Pew...I congratulate his success but that's about it.
The failure of the Wii U can only be blamed on Nintendo and it's overall attitude that seems to have learned all the wrong lessons for the past few years.
To be fair, $250 is worth a lot less than it used to be. At some point you have to go up.
adamantypants
Member
It'll be a college course one day
No one should pay him money. Not even McDonald's.
It already is. They teach confirmation bias and logical fallacies in many classes.
He was on point with everything in the video. Don't know why everybody is saying the problems run deeper because it really is that simple, Nintendo is preventing people from showcasing their products to the greater masses. And the BS that the branding for the WiiU screwed them over has to rethink their conclusion. The iPhone has a bunch of different models but even a person who doesn't buy the phones know that their are different generations and different models within each generation. The WiiU was a crappy name but it wasn't the downfall, Nintendo's failure was not allowing for their games to be shown since it's forums that watch said videos that spread the news about said products and it eventually trickles down to the masses.
Nintendo can definitely recover from this and they know how to, they're just reinventing wheel each time and showing people what they want even though they don't even know that they want it.
If there are mistakes it's cause I'm on mobile, huge hassle to correct my sentences on it.
Nintendo can definitely recover from this and they know how to, they're just reinventing wheel each time and showing people what they want even though they don't even know that they want it.
If there are mistakes it's cause I'm on mobile, huge hassle to correct my sentences on it.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Um, it's gone now, but Flappy Bird used to have a file on AppAnnie and it reached #1 on the App Store charts about a week before PewDiePie even mentioned it in a video.
MrCunningham
Member
His video makes a good point. The Wii took off in the mainstream because of daytime TV shows, like morning shows/ Oprah/ whatever that really hyped the physical activity aspect of the console to the masses. The Wii-U tries to fit in with the tablet craze, but it doesn't quite work on that level. I don't think there has ever really been any games for the device that can justify the existence of having a screen on the controller... outside of streaming games.
Sylverstone14
Member
This honestly makes no sense to me whatsoever.
SolidSnakex
Member
No they aren't. I just typed in a few Nintendo games with "Let's Play" and found these channels
https://www.youtube.com/user/cobanermani456/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/Geilkind/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/kwingsletsplays/videos
They're almost entirely devoted to Nintendo walkthroughs, and the channels have a pretty large amount of subscribers. And there are a bunch of others. You can literally type in any Wii U game with "Let's Play" and you'll find a ton of results. The whole anti-Youtube thing from Nintendo has been completely overblown. There are plenty of videos out there for anyone that wants to see them.
How is it BS? Several major non-gaming news sites ran stories about how the Wii U was just a new controller after Nintendo unveiled it. Jimmy Fallon called it an add-on for the Wii, and Reggie later had to correct him. There absolutely was and probably still is marketing confusion going on with it.
ShadowgeistX
Member
To be fair, $250 is worth a lot less than it used to be. At some point you have to go up.
I have learned nothing in this thread. But at least seeing this picture makes me appreciate how great my dreamcast and gamecube are.
This just supports why I never watch Game Theory and question why anyone gives this youtube channel any attention. How does Flappy Bird, of all things, explain anything about why the Wii U isn't selling? The only thing the Wii U has to blame for not selling is the company that is trying to sell it and that is Nintendo -- how they marketed it to their target audiences.
If they marketed it well, then there would be these "youtube personalities" making videos of their games -- regardless of Nintendo's support (because *shocker* they would know they're good games and that people would want to see them play those good games). But because the marketing was abysmal (and everything leading up to launch and after launch) none of these big "youtube personalities" care. Plus, Flappy Bird is free so this comparison is a little bit ludicrous if not ridiculously skewed.
Youtube and the Flappy Bird example is not why the Wii U is doing bad.
If they marketed it well, then there would be these "youtube personalities" making videos of their games -- regardless of Nintendo's support (because *shocker* they would know they're good games and that people would want to see them play those good games). But because the marketing was abysmal (and everything leading up to launch and after launch) none of these big "youtube personalities" care. Plus, Flappy Bird is free so this comparison is a little bit ludicrous if not ridiculously skewed.
Youtube and the Flappy Bird example is not why the Wii U is doing bad.
Another totally off the mark Game Theory. There are many more factors than just word of mouth that caused the Wii U to be a failure. No third party support, weak hardware, weak gimmick, long patches of no releases, high price due to gimmick, poor advertising, poor online (when compared to competition), very few "mature"/realistic games, etc. Word of mouth may have contributed, but it certainly isn't even one of the main factors for why it's selling so poorly. The last two Game Theories have been really poor... I hope it gets back onto theories about games rather than a poorly thought out " theories" on the industry.
Luckily there are enough Nintendo fans who don't give a shit about the ad revenue to make videos, but a lot of the bigger ones do (Game Grumps seems to be an exception, since they play whatever the fuck they feel like).
The main problem is that Nintendo is taking all the ad revenue via YouTube's content ID system. Whilst other companies let YouTubers keep their ad revenue, Nintendo will constantly content ID you and claim all advertising revenue. I know a few YouTubers who gave been content ID'd for having a sound effect from Nintendo game (eg. Mario's coin sound effect was her text message noise in a non gaming related video) and all of their ad money went straight to Nintendo. You can dispute over unfair content ID cases (like my example), but the money that the video made until the issue gets disputed still all goes to whichever company claims it (aka Nintendo). There's a 30 day response to disputes so companies can (and consistently do) wait until the last day to wring most of the ad money from videos. It's really fucked up and when you know that a company always does it I'd imagine people would try to avoid their games, especially if they really care about their ad revenue.
Luckily there are enough Nintendo fans who don't give a shit about the ad revenue to make videos, but a lot of the bigger ones do (Game Grumps seems to be an exception, since they play whatever the fuck they feel like).
poorlonelycomputer
Member
So a noted YouTuber thinks Nintendo needs to ease off and let YouTubers make money off their content? And that will magically save the Wii U...because Flappy Bird? That's certainly a " theory."
jacksepticeye
Member
It's not about whether there are Nintendo ads on youtube in general. it's about Nintendo not allowing youtubers to monetise Nintendo content meaning that they don't do as much coverage of Nintendo games. Cutting off their potential exposure to millions. Plus if you see ads in Nintendo videos it doesn't mean the content creator is getting the revenue as Nintendo could ID match it and take the monetisation themselves
Though didn't Nintendo ease off on their anti-youtube stuff lately?
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
I saw a TheBitBlock video yesterday (now removed) of Super Luigi Bros from NES Remix 2 where he altered the music because it was apparently claimed.
poorlonelycomputer
Member
You know, I agree that Content ID claims over something like sound effects is fucked up, and using footage for a review very clearly falls under fair use, but to be honest I don't see the problem with a company insisting on receiving ad royalties from, say, a Let's Play. I think they should probably at least get a cut...nobody has an inalienable right to make a career out of talking over video game footage, so this really shouldn't be an outrage.
jacksepticeye
Member
well shit....
SolidSnakex
Member
I was just saying that if you can find plenty of Nintendo LP's on Youtube. I know the ID claims scare off some people from posting them. But i've seen VideogamesAreAwesome posting a LP of DKC:TF, and they were definitely one of the Youtube channels on the front line of complaining about ID claims. I don't think that they'd post them if they weren't making money off them.
I just don't think that their Youtube stance has played much of a role in the Wii U's lack of popularity. If it did then it's certainly far behind issues like price, lack of third party support, gaps between major releases and brand confusion.
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
The way it works now is they don't get a cut; they get the entire amount , minus whatever % YouTube makes
Plus it doesn't only affect Let's Plays, as it potentially affects any video that makes use of the footage, including reviews
Nintendo has just become an image. Most videos on YouTube that have video game sketches still resort to Nintendo and its classics. It's done because it's recognizable and are very much classic. But that's just it. Everyone knows who Mario is the same way that everyone knows who Mickey Mouse is but a movie about Mickey Mouse probably wouldn't make as much money as another Despicable Me movie. Nintendo is still resorting to their old stuff instead of moving on. This is a crutch for them and the Wii U console is parallel to that as well. The PS4 and X1 are exciting new technology. You look at the Wii U's library and all you see are games that seem just like the usual (Nintendo games) that have always been there and games you've already played on your PS3/360 already. Add the fact that Nintendo has been shoddy on the marketing and you have a console that was never gonna see any success.
I wouldn't be surprised if almost all of PewDiePie's subscribers know that the Wii U exists, just that they don't care that it does. They see the new Mario game and all they see is just another Mario game. But they see PewDiePie play this game they've never heard of and they go out looking for it.
Wii U's faults and failure are really up front. There is no mystery behind it all.
I wouldn't be surprised if almost all of PewDiePie's subscribers know that the Wii U exists, just that they don't care that it does. They see the new Mario game and all they see is just another Mario game. But they see PewDiePie play this game they've never heard of and they go out looking for it.
Wii U's faults and failure are really up front. There is no mystery behind it all.
poorlonelycomputer
Member
Yeah, I do think the policy should be changed. In fact I think IP law in general would be a lot fairer and more reasonable if it was approached with some actual nuance. It just seems like the conversation I hear is basically how dare Nintendo demand payment for these videos, and I feel like the reality is less black and white.
I haven't watched this video yet but I plan to later (I quite enjoy game theory actually) but this is a part of a series of why the Wii U has done terribly and the first video highlighted how so much of nintendo's approach was the same as the shitty virtual boy which I found to be pretty true.
Anyway, yeah every argument against nintendo and the wii u is the dumbest argument ever. Not saying you are a big nintendo fan because I don't know you offhand but some people seem to think nintendo is perfect and the wii u is just a silly little flop brought about by random chance.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Stump as always taking the better words right out of my mouth but I'll chime in anyway--Nintendo's biggest mistake over the last few years was resisting the devaluation of video gaming. It's perfectly understandable but it's killing them--there's absolutely no grease on their wheels in delivering an accessible game experience. It's a bitter pill for them to swallow that they'd be better off giving some of their stuff away cheap or free and you can tell it goes against the very core of the company's ideology.
The problem here is that its not a cut. YouTube and the person/group/company that files the claim get all of the money and the uploader nothing. YouTube and these content holders could work something out so everyone gets a piece, but why have some of the money, when you can have ALL of the money.
LegendofLex
Member
Nintendo did just fine without YouTube before. Don't see why lack of YouTube would hurt them now.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Regardless of whether YT is actually relevant in this case, what an odd statement. Business / culture / paradigms change all the time.
comedy bomb
Banned
Also funny that Gamecube is the only one with any personality in the history of boring black and grey boxes.