Support NeoGAF

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

I always thought Halo was neat, but the ancient human bullshit and 343's "Librarian's master plan" stuff is just bad.

I think Starcraft squandered its lore. Starcraft 1 and Brood War had a great world and a lot of buildup, and then Starcraft II retconned pretty much all of it with as many shitty cliches and cop-outs you could possibly come up with.


The Crysis series lore was pretty much garbage from front to back. Its lore goes pretty much "Look, a cool mechanical suit! > Look, aliens! > yatta yatta yatta > You win!".

No, you are not understanding the full depth of Crysis's nonsense.

North Korea is bad, but now there are aliens. None of that matters, actually, the Koreans are never mentioned again and the aliens left but now they've come back and taken over New York. There is also a virus. The suit is also actually reverse-engineered alien technology from when this guy was in Antarctica and he actually orchestrated the entire first game but now he's in a vegetative state and wants the Nanosuit so he can personally save humanity from the C̶o̶v̶e̶n̶a̶n̶t̶ Ceph. Your character was also m̶o̶r̶t̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶n̶d̶e̶d̶ dead all along and now a backup copy of that guy from the first game (no, not the main character, he died off-screen in a comic) takes over the suit. Then he takes a nap or something for 20 years, then Crysis 3 happens.

 

[domlolz]

lot of idiots ITT saying metal gear solid

 

[bluethree]

I don't agree with it exactly, but MGS isn't a BAD answer considering how little Kojima cared about consistency or coherency with the canon.

 

[Dictator93]

I always thought Halo was neat, but the ancient human bullshit and 343's "Librarian's master plan" stuff is just bad.



No, you are not understanding the full depth of Crysis's nonsense.

North Korea is bad, but now there are aliens. None of that matters, actually, the Koreans are never mentioned again and the aliens left but now they've come back and taken over New York. There is also a virus. The suit is also actually reverse-engineered alien technology from when this guy was in Antarctica and he actually orchestrated the entire first game but now he's in a vegetative state and wants the Nanosuit so he can personally save humanity from the C̶o̶v̶e̶n̶a̶n̶t̶ Ceph. Your character was also m̶o̶r̶t̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶n̶d̶e̶d̶ dead all along and now a backup copy of that guy from the first game (no, not the main character, he died off-screen in a comic) takes over the suit. Then he takes a nap or something for 20 years, then Crysis 3 happens.THE ALPHA CEPH

I added in the Crysis 3 plot.

 

[Opto]

Halo builds places of mystery and then the end result is to blow it up.

 

[Palculator]

"haha brother! I survived in this arm because nanobots!"

Or something, who even knows.

Your point being?

 

[PetulantChild]

Here you go with this sense of mystery again.. The flood aren't just a generic bio weapon not even close they are so much more complex than what you're making them.

343 answered questions and expanded the lore on the Forerunners and gave us a look into their culture how is this a bad thing? Were they supposed to stay a shrouded in mystery for all of eternity because Bungie said so, what the hell do we gain from that?

No they aren't perfect but what "god" race is they were flawed just like us that made them real.

And why is GS being an ancient human an issue again please enlighten me.

Yes they should have left it a mystery, or at least if you're going to be stupid enough to explain them don't make them dumb as hell pokemon trainers who planned for Spartans and can magically make you immune to orange laser beams, it's on the same level as Prometheus and ME3s copouts in terms of "Expanding" the universe. GS being a human is full on stupidity, it reads like something from a freaking fan fiction writer who though that Halo was science fantasy instead of science fiction. It's exactly the same case as Midichlorians in the Star Wars prequels, flat out explaining something that was designed to be mysterious is very very rarely a good idea, and if you are going to explain it then it better be a damned good explanation.

 

[JSoup]

If you mean Bionic Commando, you are wrong his Arm is not his wife, it never has been... the article was written by an idiot.

Wasn't it said his arm is his wife in one of the games? I swear I saw that on a stream years ago.

 

[BennyBlanco]

To me all Blizzard games have shit lore. I still enjoy them but everything is so generic.

 

[MasterMongoose]

I'm pretty done with Halo lore post Bungie. 343 is trying (earnestly) but it just feels like throwing everything but the kitchen sink at it and still having super shallow characters and exposition dumps full of names of things everywhere. I've seen all kinds of people saying "They're making the MC more human!" but I just don't agree. Still super fun games minus the Warden.

So many "fantasy" games (western) feel like any of their lores could substituted for any other. It's all got to be Tolkien, and it all blends together after awhile.

 

[Lunarwhale]

The Elder Scrolls lore is really overly complicated and poorly introduced considering how it's all pretty simple at a base level.

Persona 3 and 4's overarching lore regarding the Shadows felt pretty bad to me as well. Independent they were fine, when they started to make a big deal out of them it became a boring mess, especially factoring in the Arena storylines.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

lot of idiots ITT saying metal gear solid

Calling someone with different tastes than you "idiots", classy.

 

[XenoRaven]

I am referring to what's in the game. I'm not counting websites.

Sometimes it's OK to just say "I don't like Destiny and would like to take this opportunity to say something bad about it, even though it doesn't necessarily apply."

I agree with the Kingdom Hearts posts. It just seems outrageously convoluted.

 

[shoreu]

Yes they should have left it a mystery, or at least if you're going to be stupid enough to explain them don't make them dumb as hell pokemon trainers who planned for Spartans and can magically make you immune to orange laser beams, it's on the same level as Prometheus and ME3s copouts in terms of "Expanding" the universe. GS being a human is full on stupidity, it reads like something from a freaking fan fiction writer who though that Halo was science fantasy instead of science fiction. It's exactly the same case as Midichlorians in the Star Wars prequels, flat out explaining something that was designed to be mysterious is very very rarely a good idea, and if you are going to explain it then it better be a damned good explanation.

I disagree people wanted, and we wanted to understand the relationship between the humans and the forerunner. We learned about their interesting culture and about how intelligent of a race they are. Programming an entire species is an amazing feat and it's so interesting how the librarians plans have worked out. How is that not interesting it's amazing. Gs being a human is pretty damn easy to grasp (we know how humans make their AI) so why is

Spoiler

Chakas being preserved and used by the librarin so hard for you to grasp?

 

[topplehat]

Starcraft 2 because of what it did to Star Craft 1/BW.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

That's why they made Days of Ruin.

Despite the AW fanbase hating on that game I actually liked that it tried to address it.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Yeah, the overall overaching lore of the Metal Gear series is pretty............. whacky, hahah.

 

[User 73706]

lot of idiots ITT saying metal gear solid

cry more

 

[Thewonandonly]

To me, Gears' lore has always been lacking and I think there was a huge missed opportunity there...

No man this is wrong if u read the books there actually pretty dope. For me I would say halo and that's coming from a halo fan. I love the campaigns and even 5's but I just have no idea what is going on in the story anymore.

 

[pizzacat]

Lore = main story in the games from now on guys



The lore to mgs is just our history sprinkled with some Kojima, there's nothing to it actually lol

 

[InfiniteCombo]

Most fighting games have some questionable lore. ASW ones in particular are odd and ambiguous.

What.

I would agree if it was Street Fighter, but this is far from true for some other fighting series:

KoF, especially the [first] Orochi stuff, has lore that is not only great for fighting games, but may even hold up with the lore of games from other genres.

Guilty Gear also has deep story modes for most of the entries in the series which have built up the lore quite a bit.

I could go on with others like Tekken, SoulCalibur, etc. Essentially, I disagree with your statement.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Mass Effect. So many Sci-Fi tropes told via bland dialogue.

The lore of Mass Effect is amazing, one of things I would gladly defend about the series.

How they decide to make use of that lore, on the other hand....

 

[ImThatDood]

Super Mario

 

[Astral Dog]

The Super Mario games have a very interesting universe but the lore is just a mess, why the monarchy of the Mushroom Kingdom dont try to learn from their mistakes? Whats up with King Bowser offspring? Why the Mario brothers were never given any recognition on the Kingdom besides a little kiss on the cheek? What about the Mushroom world and their territory and politics? does princess Peach never considered a diplomatic solution with Bowser, giving herself in exchange for the safety of her kingdom and citizens, or there are more political reasons behind the invasions?

Also, Sonic is pretty bad too...just what the fuck, much worse than Mario.

I wouldn't say worst, but I think Starfox really got too bloated as it moved along.

I have mixed thoughts on Zero being a prequel because on one hand it means they can get rid of the extra baggage introduced by the GCN and DS ones, but at the same time I want the series to move forward in a meaningful way because what they tried with Command and Assault wasn't inherently bad, just somewhat mishandled (and having to deal with the after-effects of Adventures being forced into the canon was probably the main catalyst of that). Hmm.

Zero is not a prequel but a Remake.

 

[Trigonometrize.]

Final Fantasy XIII - the best lore of any game I've ever played. The mythos are so cool and had me enraptured. Conversely...

XIII-2 and LR - throw away all of the cool shit for generic time travel and the "chosen one". Say what you will about those games, but nothing about the world is interesting compared to the original.

 

[Alebrije]

FIFA series

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Deus Ex. Hodge-podge of every stock conspiracy in the book.

That's precisely what they wanted to do. The game's premise was literally "what if every conspiracy theory was real?". At least with Human Revolution, they modernized a bit that premise, because

Spoiler

the alien theory was a bit too crazy.

Killzone apparently has a decent universe, but the game plots dumb everything down to space Nazis vs. space Americans.

Killzone has incredible lore. I remember reading it to get hyped for KZ2, and was very good. But yeah, it's like they didn't have the writer to integrate it into the story. Specially since the lore leaves it pretty clear that it was the ISA who were the bad guys, turning Helghast into the Nazis shown in the campaigns of the game.

 

[UraMallas]

Assassin's Creed has at the very least the worst framing device.

There were a lot of bad posts in this thread but I had to come back to this one to say it is unequivocally the wrongest. Others have already elaborated on why but it seriously is an incorrect assessment.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Dragon Age.

Take the most hackneyed, cliched, well-worn High Fantasy setting imaginable, coat it in a thin layer of that dark-and-gritty-with-a-side-of-titty-whore-n'-gore fantasy that's all the rage these days, shamelessly nick WH40K's magic system, and you've got the essence of Dragon Age. Absolutely nothing about it is original or compelling in the slightest.

Dragon Age. It's just too boring and generic.

I also greatly disagree with these.

The amount of people talking about the lore in the BioWare's message board, and how to explain the entire universe... the conversations there can be very fascinating and makes you see how much they put in the entire lore (though unfortunately they are hidden behind DLCs if you want to experience them yourself, meh) The elven gods, the Black City, etc etc... I think Dragon Age has done well in differentiating itself from the usual "Middle-Age" dwarf/elf-whatever concept... it's basically its own thing by now.

 

[Psychoward]

I also greatly disagree with these.

The amount of people talking about the lore in the BioWare's message board, and how to explain the entire universe. The elven gods, the Black City, etc etc... I think Dragon Age has done well in differentiating itself from the usual "Middle-Age" dwarf/elf-whatever concept... it's basically its own thing by now.

I can't knock DA solely for the dwarves being cunning political masterminds.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

Mario.

 

[bomblord1]

Zelda

Each game taken on its own is great and hints at a deeper lore and world. But the fact that there's a timeline causes all kinds of plotholes.

Best to think of each game as self contained and the only carry the general ideas or events over to the others in the series.

 

[TheSpoiler]

What.

I would agree if it was Street Fighter, but this is far from true for some other fighting series:

KoF, especially the [first] Orochi stuff, has lore that is not only great for fighting games, but may even hold up with the lore of games from other genres.

Guilty Gear also has deep story modes for most of the entries in the series which have built up the lore quite a bit.

I could go on with others like Tekken, SoulCalibur, etc. Essentially, I disagree with your statement.

SF has great lore, it's just covered behind a thousand official books and art things that have never seen the light of day over here.

But what I mean by "good lore" is how explained and connected everything is. As a plot, it's pretty garbage.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

Final Fantasy XIII, easily. Lore for the sake of lore.

 

[Toxi]

Guilty Gear also has deep story modes for most of the entries in the series which have built up the lore quite a bit.

On the other hand, Guilty Gear's story tends to be completely insufferable.

A great example is in Guilty Gear Xrd's shitty story mode when that stupid dragon professor spouts technobabble for 10 minutes. Why on Earth is there boring technobabble about fictional physics in a cartoony fighting game? It does't just bore me to tears, it feels completely out of place.

That's why Guilty Gear probably has the worst world-building of any game series I've played. The story mode feels like it was written by people who barely played the games. Why is Faust, a character most known for being hilarious and wacky, a serious and tragic character for 90% of his screentime? Because Guilty Gear's story sucks.

 

[Kawaii Slayer]

I just don't understand how people can say Dark Souls has bad lore. Literally every NPC, item in game and location all have deep intricate backstories. You can trace even a pathetic random ring back to some historic character and it even has special bonuses relating to that. Dark Souls belongs in possibly a -best- lore thread, not here.

As for my vote, I'd have to go with Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel.

 

[TC McQueen]

Literally all the storytelling stuff in Crysis is garbage aside from some of the dialogue in Crysis 2 and Crysis 2: Legion, where Peter Watts does a great job fleshing out the nothing Crytek gave him to work with.

Naturally, all the cool stuff in Legion is swept aside for "Alcatraz's mind commits suicide so Prophet can take over his body" and whatever the hell was going on in Crysis 3.

 

[Renekton]

Some of us seem to be confusing lore with game plot?

 

[WinFonda]

Halo and Destiny for sure.

 

[TheSpoiler]

On the other hand, Guilty Gear's story tends to be completely insufferable.

A great example is in Guilty Gear Xrd's shitty story mode when that stupid dragon professor spouts technobabble for 10 minutes. Why on Earth is there boring technobabble about fictional physics in a cartoony fighting game? It does't just bore me to tears, it feels completely out of place.

That's why Guilty Gear probably has the worst world-building of any game series I've played. The story mode feels like it was written by people who barely played the games. Why is Faust, a character most known for being hilarious and wacky, a serious and tragic character? Because Guilty Gear's story sucks.

Have you played the other GG games? Faust has always been about redempetion since his time as Baldhead. In the numerous story arcs of the previous games, he gets serious quite often.

 

[Currygan]

I find the Guild Wars lore just incredibly generic and boring. Thank god the games are fun anyway

 

[LeleSocho]

That's precisely what they wanted to do. The game's premise was literally "what if every conspiracy theory was real?". At least with Human Revolution, they modernized a bit that premise, because

Spoiler

the alien theory was a bit too crazy.

The

Spoiler

pet aliens part

of the first Deus Ex is the best part because it gave a sense to all the technology that exist in the game.

 

[PetulantChild]

I disagree people wanted, and we wanted to understand the relationship between the humans and the forerunner. We learned about their interesting culture and about how intelligent of a race they are. Programming an entire species is an amazing feat and it's so interesting how the librarians plans have worked out. How is that not interesting it's amazing. Gs being a human is pretty damn easy to grasp (we know how humans make their AI) so why is

Spoiler

Chakas being preserved and used by the librarin so hard for you to grasp?

The librarian is just as forced and lazy as The Catalyst or fucking Palpatine. Any time anything questionable happens 343 can just say BUH THE LIBRARIAN PROGRAMMED IT THAT WAY, the same way Palpatine planned everything and somehow manipulated everyone into being a dumbass. It's just plain lazy and idiotic, just like nanomachines being an explanation in Metal Gear or tears in Bioshock Infinite.

 

[Kalentan]

I disagree people wanted, and we wanted to understand the relationship between the humans and the forerunner. We learned about their interesting culture and about how intelligent of a race they are. Programming an entire species is an amazing feat and it's so interesting how the librarians plans have worked out. How is that not interesting it's amazing. Gs being a human is pretty damn easy to grasp (we know how humans make their AI) so why is

Spoiler

Chakas being preserved and used by the librarin so hard for you to grasp?

Ever notice how a lot of the haters use the idea of "Fan Fiction" when ever they want to insult the lore? It's like they have no actual arguements so they just throw that out every time.

 

[Easy_D]

MGS fans are the best when it comes to justifying bullshit.



That was the entire point of the first one, though.

Mass Effect didn't get up its own ass until 3.

The fact that everybody hated the Reaper Baby proves it just went over people's heads.

Reaper baby was cool as fuck and I assume someone at Bioware is a big Contra nut.

 

[MGrant]

Halo was great until the novels became mandatory to understand the story. I even really liked following the ilovebees arg shit in the leadup to halo 2. Now, though? I don't know what's going on with anything, and I don't have time to find out.

Final Fantasy XIII was just a mess, but I let it go.

 

[Dimmle]

Most games lauded for their "lore" are overwritten. Dark Souls is a refreshing counterpoint.

 

[LowlySmokeGuy]

It didn't pretend to be anything, there was(and still is) a genuinely interesting framing device for what we call video games and the gameplay systems, like controlling a character, a HUD, character customization, there being a convenient haystack whenever you want to perform a leap of faith, npcs that look similar, cheat codes, glitches, etc, other games have no narrative excuse for these things, AC however does.

Every other game could throw in animus stuff to make gamey elements make sense too without much effort. It's a lazy framing device and you're giving it too much credit.

 

[Palculator]

Most games lauded for their "lore" are overwritten. Dark Souls is a refreshing counterpoint.

Souls games' brevity is bliss.

 

[PFD]

I never cared for the world in Borderlands