This is like saying a shop should count how many people walk into the store or look at their window because that's more important than how many items they sell. Ok leeh if that's what you want to believe then by all means.
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GameStop: Halo 5 digital sales are in line with other AAA game releases
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
This is like saying a shop should count how many people walk into the store or look at their window because that's more important than how many items they sell. Ok leeh if that's what you want to believe then by all means.
Thanks. I want to second this. Most of us really are interested in the sales figures for the sake of charting the industry and all its myriad implications; nothing more, nothing less. Of course, many of us have thoughts on Halo, too -- me, I'm a sucker for everything space opera, so I want it to succeed.
Well, you're free to think that...but it not based on anything in reality.
No, it's like being a loyal customer, as in, you've already bought into the ecosystem.
boredandlazy
Member
Cheers. Like I posted earlier, maybe with a bit more distance we can have substantive sales talk for any first party game.
Lol, Leeh you know very well that if MS was in position 1, they'd be crowing about hardware numbers with a small blurb on MAU.
How you really can't see this I have no idea.
Just pathetic behavior.
Your right there. Although, I do believe it wouldn't be a small blurb for MAU, rather the same prevalence, just with the change in focus for the company. Although, we can't change the past couple of years.
WordsintheWater
Member
This shit is ridiculous. I really like Halo 5, but I can accept that it hasn't sold how everyone expected it to sell. If it did, we would have had numbers from Microsoft just like every other Halo. Digital is probably right around what the Gamestop guy said, why does anyone think it's otherwise? Is this game special or something and doesn't go with the trend?
Jack The Nipper
Banned
It's not a trend in like and seeing these things in some Sony games is bad. Driveclub was ok, but when you're having to buy extras it isn't ok. Battlefront isnt ok either.
Give us a full gameat 60 and extra content at 20 dollars. These half games and half made DLC packs will catch up to you developers.
LifEndz
Member
Same here. He's my favorite poster.
Ninja Sharingan
Banned
I guess some people just don't want to imagine a world where a good game can sell poorly. I think this year is going to be ripe with them. I don't see battlefront having any legs. Infact what has actually consistently sold well this year? Just the usual? Fifa in the UK and call of duty? Word of mouth will hopefully save halo but it is a high skill based game so that will probably hurt it. To be honest I have no idea why something sells lol
TBiddy
Member
Great post mate. Really.
Not really because there is no reason to suggest that you will be "loyal" or spend money. My parents played free solitaire, as do I, they have a live account now. For about 3 days in a month they were a "loyal customer" I guess. If you consider that a more important metric than somebody who buys a console than that's your own judgement but the only plus I see to that metric is data mining not determining software support, nor player base, nor revenue.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
No games have been that great this year to have word of mouth or sales...
Everything is rather streamlined or sort of boring. Nothing impressive, nothing I want to show people who don't play games.
Until dawn was one of the few, but mgs, halo etc
Mgs 2, crash, mario 64. Wave race, star fox, dead rising. I could show off
Not like posting any useful information to help cure leeh from his ignorance is any good. Dude just wants to stick to his own opinions which are detached from reality. Might as well sit back and enjoy.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Please don't give Leeh a tag, that's what he wants.
Also, angry PM's over this ? Disgusting.
Also, angry PM's over this ? Disgusting.
So now it's moved in to "good games don't sell?" Come on man that's extremely silly and you know it. There are plenty of good games that have sold well this gen and even this year (See Fallout 4, MGSV, Batman AK, Dying Light, Bloodborne etc). Just because your tastes don't align with the market at large does not make them have shitty taste in games it just means they have different tastes. Those of us who live JRPGs accepted this a long time ago.
Bits N Pieces
Member
How can we when no one knows the numbers?
I'm not looking to stoke the fire here but you want debate but instantly dismiss anyone that has a differing opinion to yourself.
I'm not one of those who believe that Halo 5 sold 90% of its units digitally lol but im also not one of those that are so quick to dismiss the notion that it may have sold above average with regards to digital.
Christ, if Battlefield Hardline sold 20% digitally is it out of the realms of possibility that Halo 5 sold 35%+?
I don't know I'm just trying to stimulate the debate, not shoot other posters down in flames or start a witch hunt against individuals
Hesemonni
Banned
Why would Halo 5 sell more digitally than Battlefield:Hardline?
I mean, there's no evidence so far pointing that digital percentage is any higher on better reviewed game (or worse reviewed game for that matter). So far pretty much the only percentage we have is ~20% on digital sales overall.
Triggerhappytel
Member
This thread has been batshit, and thoroughly entertaining.
Just to be clear on a few details:
- In the above press release, they also say "[...] leading to it becoming the best-selling digital game ever in the Xbox Store for an opening week."
- In the same call, they said that they believed all titles launched in this quarter were in line with digital trends and expectations. Note that on these last two points any lies or deliberate misinformation given to investors is fraud and would result in hefty fines and a prison sentence, and given that GameStop is the biggest videogames retailer in the world it's reasonable to assume they would have a pretty good grasp on these numbers. Especially considering digital sales will most likely directly impact their physical sales, so it's in both their and MS's interest to discuss these numbers even if they don't openly share them
I think that's everything? Of course, none of us know the numbers except for MS, but the series has clearly declined since its heyday eight years ago.
Just to be clear on a few details:
- In the above press release, they also say "[...] leading to it becoming the best-selling digital game ever in the Xbox Store for an opening week."
- In the same call, they said that they believed all titles launched in this quarter were in line with digital trends and expectations. Note that on these last two points any lies or deliberate misinformation given to investors is fraud and would result in hefty fines and a prison sentence, and given that GameStop is the biggest videogames retailer in the world it's reasonable to assume they would have a pretty good grasp on these numbers. Especially considering digital sales will most likely directly impact their physical sales, so it's in both their and MS's interest to discuss these numbers even if they don't openly share them
- Digital sales this gen tend to account for around 20% of a game's total sales, as helpfully summarised by Nirolak here (further, EA recently revealed that digital accounts for 20% of their sales on PS4/Xbone, reinforcing this notion)
- Gamespot later updated the article saying that Doug Creutz of Cowen & Company had issued a note to investors after the call, suggesting that the digital sales for Halo 5 were most likely much higher than GameStop claimed, suggesting it was much closer to half of the total sales and that "We suspect that the average underperformance vs. their expectations is really being driven by an acceleration of digital downloads."
I think that's everything? Of course, none of us know the numbers except for MS, but the series has clearly declined since its heyday eight years ago.
Bits N Pieces
Member
Hardline was a new IP, there will be some sort of Battlefield out next year - the fanbase for Halo is stronger and more supportive - as can be seen in this thread
Heck I'm no analyst and I don't have insider knowledge but I thought that most people could agree that the potential for Halo to sell more digitally than something like Harldine could be a possibility? Who knows, like I said, maybe I'm way off base here and Halo only sold 13% digitally. People are too dismissive of other opinions too easily without anyone have true hard facts.
damn, why did you have to bring the facts like that? I was just typing my 10 Page thesis I was going to send to Nirolak on a PM about why Neogaf, all mods and all halo 5 sales threads here must disappear from the face of earth right now.
Now I have to scrap all of it and go cry in corner, thanks a bunch buddy.
Right back with the "you're absurd/crazy/delusional if you believe..." type statements. You've learned nothing.
The hard fact is that ~20% is the general trend reported by many third party publishers. Now the burden of proof rests on those who wants to believe halo somehow bucks that trend. we're all still waiting.
Bits N Pieces
Member
No, they said they had no reason to believe they were higher, which means, we don't know the numbers, but since we don't know we'll presume they're the same. Which is a safe assumption and fine for them to say since there's nothing else to go on.
Answer me this. How can one AAA game under perform so badly physically but break records digitally while keeping the same digital/physical split?
I apologise, I'm back at work and I'm going through a crunch so I'm rather edgy. I'll refrain from being a dick.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
by changing the perimeters
were the digital records a record breaking percentage or revenue?
Triggerhappytel
Member
Look, I know you're trying really hard to spin the numbers positively, but I'm going to assume GameStop - again, emphasising that they're the biggest videogame retailer in the world - has a better grasp on the numbers and gets clearer information out of MS than we have access to.
As for it breaking records digitally, it's all relative - without knowing how many copies the previous record holder sold I can't really comment.
How can we when no one knows the numbers?
I'm not looking to stoke the fire here but you want debate but instantly dismiss anyone that has a differing opinion to yourself.
I'm not one of those who believe that Halo 5 sold 90% of its units digitally lol but im also not one of those that are so quick to dismiss the notion that it may have sold above average with regards to digital.
Christ, if Battlefield Hardline sold 20% digitally is it out of the realms of possibility that Halo 5 sold 35%+?
I don't know I'm just trying to stimulate the debate, not shoot other posters down in flames or start a witch hunt against individuals
Possibly yes, because there's not an ounce of evidence, from MS, to AAA publishers to insiders here on Gaf that point to the digital attach rate being that high.
It under performed badly for a Halo game only, not a 3rd party AAA release by many measures.
And no doubt digital is up from 2012 when Halo launched, but to bandy about high numbers like the one quoted above which goes against all our current evidence doesn't make too much sense.
So in that case the digital numbers can be "record breaking" in conjunction with a poor selling Halo game.
Nightengale
Member
Before whining about liars and conspiracy theories, how about you do some basic maths and make some educated guesses to try to see if they're lying or not.
Here's my stupid one.
Here's my stupid one.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Ha ha, I love that you've gone to the trouble of calculating a digital 9:1 sales ratio column!
Why do people suddenly come to this conclusion when I'm discussing this? Like I'm trying to prove Halo 5 was a success? I'm talking for discussion and for sake of accuracy, not any motive.
Simply put, they said 'we have no reason to believe' means they don't know and will keep their expectations with what we know, which is fair enough.
It doesn't matter, if it broke digital sales, it broke the record. This means it beat every AAA multi-plat digitally, where many released with higher numbers than H5 physically. Means a higher split.
There's also the matter of the record breaking PR
specifically referencing the "Xbox Store" which was a new thing for XB1 (before it was the Xbox Live arcade and Xbox Live store) as well as specifying "for an opening week." There's also the matter of "best-selling" as we don't know if this in revenue or licenses.
All in all, due to the aforementioned reasons, the PR is anything but a reliable source let alone grounds to question statements made by companies in an earnings call. Yet here we have people arguing that info being provided in an earnings call must be false because it clashes with a previously confirmed misleading PR message.
Bits N Pieces
Member
How can there be any evidence when no one know apart from MS, which insiders on here are saying that Halo 5 is line with most releases as far as digital goes?
The only thing we do know is that Halo 5 broke records for being the best-selling digital game of all time during a release week in the Xbox Store.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
If you apply the same amount of scrutiny to Gamestop's words in regard to the digital sales, you're far from definite answers either. Not saying that what they say isn't the case, it most likely is but just struck me as odd.
Both Matt and Cosmic have stated that sales are in line with other AAA digital splits. They've done so multiple times. Hell they've even done so in this thread. Both are confirmed insiders with access to industry sales data.
Nightengale
Member
Even without sales data access, working backwards with MS's 400 million bravado, you can make some estimates which show that anything above 30% digital split for Halo is unlikely because 30% and above would put their revenue at 450 million and above.
Just like how a 9:1 digital split would had made MS over 1.5 billion in revenue.
What part of lying to or misleading investors during an earnings call is ILLEGAL do you not understand? There's also the matter that we have insiders confirming the information as well. At what point is there enough evidence to disregard the very deliberately worded PR statement from a company that has developed a very well earned reputation for spinning their PR the past few years?
Triggerhappytel
Member
Because I've read many of your posts, and I can see that you clearly have a vested interest in this game being a success.
Goddamn. I don't trust MS PR at all this gen, but that is some eagle-eye shit to spot that out.
That depends entirely on whether GameStop have been publishing PR statements very carefully worded to say one thing while appearing to say something else for the past two years.
The basic evidence which can be used as a basis of discussion is developer/industry insiders and the precedent from AAA publishers with their digital sales.
Halo in this case is not exempt from past trends to skyrocket digital numbers to well above the accepted average.
Is it above the norm? Yes I can agree that's possible but not to the stratoshpere other posters believed.
Without that empirical evidence+the new info gathered from the OP, we may as well just twiddle our collective thumbs in here.
To clarify the bold, was that in relation to the XB1 store alone or general Xbox store since it was launched?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I never said you shouldn't disregard MS' PR statement, but you're acting like Gamestop's statement towards the digital sales were spoken in absolutes which they simply weren't.
There's no lies involved if to the best of their knowledge the digital sales aren't out of the ordinary, even if, however likely that is, they were wrong.
It doesn't take much to realize MS PR being full of crap, at the latest when you're scratching your head as to what it actually said.
Because no one who has said this:
--can be an objective poster without a clear agenda.
Before whining about liars and conspiracy theories, how about you do some basic maths and make some educated guesses to try to see if they're lying or not.
Here's my stupid one.
Kermitnodding.gif
lmao Holy crap.
Really? Cause I don't feel that way. Especially when I was stating how bad it sold physically in the NPD thread.
It was a joke.