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GM to Recall 1.3 Million Cars to Fix Power Steering System

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big_z

Member
tokkun said:
The Toyota accelerator problem has already caused over 30 fatalities. The GM issue 'requires more steering effort when under 15 mph'. Are these two defects of equal significance in your mind?


there is no link to the accelerator problem and deaths. it is thought it could of been a factor in some deaths. media spin ftl.

most likely factor of the deaths and causing the pedal to stick is the floormats which got recalled earlier. people were too stupid to clip them in correctly so toyota remodeled them so they dont go so far up.
 

Xeke

Banned
Kunan said:
He's talking about the mindset that everyone must drive everywhere, even if its a small walk. He didn't say its douchey. Even here in Canada people have the ridiculous mindset of over 10 min walk = drive. Half the people I know will barely walk across a university campus (just 10 min) to get good food and will just get the same junky crap over and over from the place nearby, bitching about its awfulness every day. Getting people to walk to a bagel place only 15 minutes away from my house requires a ridiculous amount of convincing that its walkable, with people constantly trying to get one of the drivers in the house to go so they don't have to walk.

That, and the fact that people always respond incredulously when he says he doesn't own a car are what he's talking about. He's not calling drivers douches, he's saying that drivers cant for the life of them understand his point (even in a small town) whereas europeans can.

Since when did walking come up? I thought he was talking about public transit. I would never walk 15 minutes by myself for a damn bagel, sorry, got shit to do.
 

Kunan

Member
Xeke said:
Since when did walking come up? I thought he was talking about public transit. I would never walk 15 minutes by myself for a damn bagel, sorry, got shit to do.
I somehow manage even with a crushing 17 hours of class and homework every day (accelerated program). Live life outdoors a little.

EDIT: I tend to lump walking with bussing when talking about things like this, as they are the two main ways (along with other methods such as biking) that you get around without cars.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Right, next time I'll just assume that everyone else is going to assume the context of my post is ridiculously ignorant universal statements. Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt and bothering to try and understand what I meant before judging me. It means a lot to me. Sorry for appearing to be something you didn't like, I know how the terrible opinions you make up and project onto others gets you so angry. I didn't mean to cause you displeasure.

Thanks Kunan & FlightOfHeaven, you are truly internet white knights of rational discourse. However, I have still learned that in times like these it is best to just back out, so that is what I will do.

Resume discussion of GM recall. Sorry Ripclawe.

P.S. Walking is fun. I spend 90mins walking everyday. Cycling is 4 times faster, though, and more fun if the weather is nice. Buses suck, unless you are in developed Mexico.
 

Xeke

Banned
Kunan said:
I somehow manage even with a crushing 17 hours of class and homework every day (accelerated program). Live life outdoors a little.

I love being outside, not when there has been 20 inches of snow on the ground with no cleaned sidewalks. But I still can't justify 30 minutes of travel for a bagel that takes me a minute to eat.
 

Iknos

Junior Member
big_z said:
most likely factor of the deaths and causing the pedal to stick is the floormats which got recalled earlier.

That is a common design problem among many cars but how do you know that this was the factor responsible for some of those 30 deaths? Do you have a source?
 

devilhawk

Member
Iknos said:
That is a common design problem among many cars but how do you know that this was the factor responsible for some of those 30 deaths? Do you have a source?
The source is Toyota PR. Why would they ever lie?
 

Xeke

Banned
Iknos said:
That is a common design problem among many cars but how do you know that this was the factor responsible for some of those 30 deaths? Do you have a source?

Shoulda used the E-brake.
 

big_z

Member
devilhawk said:
The source is Toyota PR. Why would they ever lie?

i dont think toyota ever made that comment. toyotanation has a bunch of recall threads you can go through. you'll see news reports claiming floor mat issues and loss of control deaths might be linked to the pedal issue, thats how you get the death figure. it's media spin.

the plastic friction piece being blamed for acceleration issue in toyota cars sounds like BS to me. if it really was wear and tear on the part you would see complaints about pedals feeling rough or slow to return but there are none prior to the recall. seems like heavy foot drivers mixed with a lack of proper floor mat installation seems to be the cause. that or problems with the electronics.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
I love how conspiracy GAF is already out of the woodwork.

Power Steering going out only means that the car is a pain in a half to turn. My first truck was a 1952 Ford F150 that didn't even come with power steering. It was a workout to drive, but you can certainly do it. That truck was also a sexy beast
It was a rust bucket I was going to fix up, but I never got any money, so it stayed a rust bucket/death trap

Power Steering failures are an inconvenience, not a matter of life and death.. like your car continuing to accelerate when you've taken your foot off the gas.

Also, the government and media raked Ford across the coals not 10 years ago for their exploding top heavy death machines (SUVs). Maybe that was part of Al Gore's attempt to kill off gas guzzling cars to further his global warming propaganda machine?
 

KnightM7

Banned
there is no link to the accelerator problem and deaths. it is thought it could of been a factor in some deaths. media spin ftl.

most likely factor of the deaths and causing the pedal to stick is the floormats which got recalled earlier. people were too stupid to clip them in correctly so toyota remodeled them so they dont go so far up.
Whats more stupid, the people who I guess didnt have them laying properly, or the thought that the incorrect 'installation' of a floor mat can cause a horrible death? Whats next, put the wrong size drink in the cup holder and the gas tank might explode?

For any other car this shouldnt even be a problem. I got huge universal winter floor mats from walmart and since theyre universal they dont have any clips to attach to. And yeah theyre always slipping under my pedals.. I guess Im just asking to die right?

Im more inclined to believe all the other conspiracy theories, cause 'killer mats' just make toyota engineers look retarded.
 

Iknos

Junior Member
StoOgE said:
Power Steering failures are an inconvenience, not a matter of life and death.. like your car continuing to accelerate when you've taken your foot off the gas.

For a senior citizen trying to take a left hand turn it could potentially be a life and death scenario.

KnightM7 said:
Whats more stupid, the people who I guess didnt have them laying properly, or the thought that the incorrect 'installation' of a floor mat can cause a horrible death? Whats next, put the wrong size drink in the cup holder and the gas tank might explode?

You can think it's stupid but it's reality. Caked mud or frozen mats can have the same effect...holding the accelerator down unintentionally.

Anything that can interfere with your gas-pedal/braking/steering can potentially be a life or death issue as silly as it may sound to you.

Rolling fruit that fell out of grocery bags that sit under the brake pedal preventing a person from depressing the brake pedal sounds funny but it happens.
 

KnightM7

Banned
You can think it's stupid but it's reality. Caked mud or frozen mats can have the same effect...holding the accelerator down unintentionally.

Anything that can interfere with your gas-pedal/braking/steering can potentially be a life or death issue as silly as it may sound to you.
Yeah anything, toyota just happens to be the unlucky one getting sued for these mishaps.

Rolling fruit that fell out of grocery bags that sit under the brake pedal preventing a person from depressing the brake pedal sounds funny but it happens.
Youre talking about some really obvious stuff here though. Bottle rolls under your pedal, yeah you wont be able to press on it. Caked mud might result in sticky pedals. No surprise there.
Slipping mats could result in your car to accelerating uncontrollably?
If anything you'd think any mat related problems could mean trouble for the brakes since it could be an obstruction.

Should the US initiate a ban on all floormats that can potentially slip? (ie. pretty much ever single universal floormat sold today)
 

Iknos

Junior Member
Yeah anything, toyota just happens to be the unlucky one getting sued for these mishaps.

Are you telling me that Toyota is being sued for the mat mishaps or for the acceleration problems tied to something else? To my knowledge it had nothing to do with the mats.

And if it was tied to the mats then they should be sued. Unless you are thinking that all mats are created equal here...I don't see what you are trying to get at.

KnightM7 said:
Youre talking about some really obvious stuff here though. Bottle rolls under your pedal, yeah you wont be able to press on it. Caked mud might result in sticky pedals. No surprise there.
Slipping mats could result in your car to accelerating uncontrollably?

The clearance between the gas pedal and the floor is minimal. The clearance between the brake pedal and the floor is larger. A mat the bunches up and slips can press down on the bottom of your gas pedal as it gets jammed in there and causes the car to accelerate uncontrollably.

If anything you'd think any mat related problems could mean trouble for the brakes since it could be an obstruction.

Read the above as to why it wouldn't be an issue for the brake.

Should the US initiate a ban on all floormats that can potentially slip? (ie. pretty much ever single universal floormat sold today)

It has more to do with the mat being able to bunch up and then slip. Harder mats won't bunch up and can slip under both pedals just fine. Not all floormats can cause this and certain scenarios like frozen mats lend themselves to this problem more than others.

I'm sure that testing of these mats don't take into account the differing environments people drive them in.

There should be more safety standards related to this component yes. That entire pedal area has been under recent scrutiny anyways due to broken ankles caused in accidents. Cars built now are far more safe than they were 10 years ago in this aspect.
 

big_z

Member
KnightM7 said:
Slipping mats could result in your car to accelerating uncontrollably?)

yes. you push the pedal all the way down and the improperly install floormat gets on the pedal and your fucked if you panic.

toyota-floor-mat-300x252.jpg


watch this video if you cant figure it out with your imagination.
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/ca...oyota-owners-to-remove-unsafe-floor-mats.html
 

Tenacious-V

Thinks his PR is better than yours.
GM puts partially-Toyota owned supplier at fault

General Motors (GM) is recalling 1.3 million small cars in North America because of a power steering problem that has been linked to 14 crashes.

The firm said four models were affected - the Chevrolet Cobalt, Pontiac G5, Pontiac Pursuit and Pontiac 4.

It said the fault meant that at low speeds "greater steering effort may be required", but that the cars could still be "safely controlled".

GM blamed the fault on a supplier partially owned by Toyota.

GM vice-chairman Bob Lutz told the BBC at the Geneva Motor show: "This is a case where, yes, we would blame a partially Toyota-owned supplier."


Mr Lutz said the supplier had not met "all requirements for reliability and durability".

"So we will have to see who takes financial responsibility," he said. "But this is a risk you sometimes take when you buy a complete system from a supplier."


Complaints

GM said it had told the US car safety regulator - the US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) - about the recall on Monday when it finished an investigation that started last year.

The NHTSA itself had been investigating the problem since 27 January after receiving more than 1,100 complaints, including 14 crashes and one injury.

The recall covers the 2005 to 2010 model year Chevrolet Cobalt, and 2007 to 2010 Pontiac G5 sold in the US.

In addition, it includes the 2005 to 2006 Pontiac Pursuit sold in Canada, and the 2005 to 2006 Pontiac G4 sold in Mexico.

"After our in-depth investigation, we found that this is a condition that takes time to develop," said GM vice president of quality, Jamie Hresko.

"It tends to occur in older models out of warranty. Recalling these vehicles is the right thing to do for our customers' peace of mind."

Toyota recalls

The GM recall comes as Toyota is continuing to call back more than eight million cars around the world following accelerator and braking problems.

The Japanese carmaker also said on Tuesday that it is repairing another 1.6 million vehicles in the US and Japan over leaky oil hoses.

The Toyota recalls are still being investigated by US politicians, and three US Toyota bosses are due to appear later before the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation.

US Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood has also been called to attend the hearing, as the committee continues to investigate the speed of the recalls and the response of the authorities.

Toyota president Akio Toyoda appeared before a separate congressional committee last week - the House Oversight Committee - to apologise and promise that lessons would be learned.
 

-PXG-

Member
Kunan said:
If where you live has great public transit, why bother with a car? Paying for insurance and gas, the car itself, parking, etc. is not worth it, plus it gives me some time to play my DS. In a lot of busy places in the city, finding parking worth a damned that doesn't cost a fortune takes so much time that it isn't worth it at all.

Of course this post will just be met with more lols cause people who are really attached to cars never agree with people who aren't.

You're right. If I lived in NYC, I couldn't see myself having a car. But anywhere else, at least in the US, I'll keep my car.
 
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