Support NeoGAF

[Chuck Norris]

I didn't care so much in GOW because his actions were a totally justifiable revenge story


In GOW2 and 3, the actions of the Gods felt poorly thought out and didn't make a whole lot of sense. As a consequence, the revenge Kratos was then taking felt weak.

To a degree I liked that Kratos essentially became what he despised in Ares, but it's not actually a story angle they looked at. Instead we were supposed to buy that he was angry and totally justified in it.

 

[Sohaim]

Think he was referring to the "I didn't do it...but I wish I did" trophy you get in the video I linked on the last page.

i always thought that trophy meant that he wanted to kill her instead of her death being an aciddent, after all he murdered many NPCs with his own hands to progress before, like what he did to

Spoiler

King midas, when he dragged him to the lava and then just tossed him there

 

[wildfire]

Kratos literally had the power to change the past at the end of GoW2 and instead of saving his wife and child he chose to grab an army of Titans to kill Zeus. He's really beyond any kind of redemption; just play him off as a dumb, fun villain.

Boy I certainly missed a lot in this franchise.

I bet after this version is played we'll see GAF avatars with Make God of War Great Again hats.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

The way he has Poseidon's concubine crushed just so he can walk through a door is…sheesh.

Says a lot about how much they need to redeem that I'm still curious if this game is gonna actually nix the obligatory sex mini-game. Not sure Kratos kid should have to listen to (or, gods forbid, watch) his pops rearranging some Viking woman's guts.

 

[petran79]

Kratos got the Max Payne 3 treatment

 

[Team Filler]

Y'all need to play the PSP games, they flesh out Kratos a bit and show he wasn't just outright born a murderous asshole.

Start a new war. All it takes is one God to try to kidnap Artreus and we'll get the old Kratos back for a little while.

I think people hating on Kratos didn't play Chains of Olympus or Ghost of Sparta, both games do a good job humanising and fleshing out his character.

Especially liked the scene where he has to deny being with his family to continue the fight.

Exactly. Persephone pushed onto Kratos a mega shitty choice between peace with his daughter or saving all of mankind (because of Atlas and Persephone's plans). And then take all the stuff with Deimos in Ghost of Sparta, and gee I wonder why Kratos fucking hates the gods of Olympus, Zeus in particular.

 

[Jubenhimer]

That's one thing I really appreciated about this new God of War. Kratos feels more human and sympathetic, rather than just a one-dimensional killing machine like he was in God of War III. It's nice to see them take ques from the handheld installments in that regard.

 

[CrazyHal]

I didn't have a problem with Kratos being an asshole but what i did have a problem with is how unlikeable he is.

An asshole character can be likeable if they are charismatic and somewhat relatable, two things which Kratos lacks.

In god of war 2 and 3, he acts like petulant child and blame all of his problems, problems that he created himself, on others. He may be extremely powerful but beneath that strength, he's a patethic, miserable manchild.

So yeah i'm pretty with this new direction!

 

[Stormblessed]

I look forward to seeing people struggle with the ludonarrative dissonance that arises from their story conceit. Kratos being a complete monster made it very easy to buy the horrible things he does in gameplay. Makes no sense to undermine that.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Kratos got the Max Payne 3 treatment

Eh, the writing in the GoW series has ample of space to improve and I don't think they're committing character assassination here, considering the feelings that Kratos showed towards Pandora, in comparison to MP.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

I look forward to seeing people struggle with the ludonarrative dissonance that arises from their story conceit. Kratos being a complete monster made it very easy to buy the horrible things he does in gameplay. Makes no sense to undermine that.

This is so lazy lmao

 

[Ajszenk]

For real. I really don't like what they're choosing to focus on for this news cycle. I don't care about your hopes and dreams for the character and narrative. The game will speak for itself on those counts.

I like Cory and believe in him, I just can't help but see all this talk about Kratos' emotional journey as fluff. Kratos is not why GOW games are good.

No, but for a lot of people, he stops the games from being great. Adding some depth to his character gives it that potential IMO

 

[Paltheos]

I super don't care about any of this. I don't think I've chimed in on any of the God of War 2018 topics on GAF, but character is a secondary concern for me in God of War. The stories in God of War 1 and 2 helped push me along the way, and by the time I reached 3, which disappointed me, I thought the poor narrative followup of the game is what let me down (well, at least that that was a part of it). Then I played the PSP games and was promptly reminded like a kick to the groin: No, I enjoy God of War for the visceral action.

Everything I've seen of this new game does not scream at me God of War. Maybe it'll be a fine game, but to me it looks like a pretty by-the-numbers 3rd person action game, and I just don't care for it.

 

[Primethius]

Kratos being an asshole wasn't the issue with the first three games (or really, mostly 2 and 3). It's that he was an extremely one dimensional character.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Kratos being an asshole wasn't the issue with the first three games (or really, mostly 2 and 3). It's that he was an extremely one dimensional character.

I'd say it was that they never followed through on contextualizing his terribleness, and it seemed like there was a lack of awareness on both the characters' and developers' parts of how irredeemable Kratos is.

I got tired of Kratos in II, but the game kept ramping up the fun and goofy ridiculousness. When III tried to say he was the embodiment of hope from Pandora's box, and all that Pandora stuff), the attempt at humanization came across as so deeply unearned that it really made me dislike the III experience overall.

The way to redeem Kratos is to not redeem him. Don't give him a happy ending or path to redemption when he would never be able to make that work. At best, he can be an example of what not to become to his kid.

 

[Loudninja]

I'd say it was that they never followed through on contextualizing his terribleness, and it seemed like there was a lack of awareness on both the characters' and developers' parts of how irredeemable Kratos is.

I got tired of Kratos in II, but the game kept ramping up the fun and goofy ridiculousness. When III tried to say he was the embodiment of hope from Pandora's box, and all that Pandora stuff), the attempt at humanization came across as so deeply unearned that it really made me dislike the III experience overall.

The way to redeem Kratos is to not redeem him. Don't give him a happy ending or path to redemption when he would never be able to make that work. At best, he can be an example of what not to become to his kid.

Umm this is what they are doing.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Umm this is what they are doing.

I'm not saying they aren't. I'm contrasting that approach to how dumb III's ending was.

 

[Darklor01]

I'd say it was that they never followed through on contextualizing his terribleness, and it seemed like there was a lack of awareness on both the characters' and developers' parts of how irredeemable Kratos is.

I got tired of Kratos in II, but the game kept ramping up the fun and goofy ridiculousness. When III tried to say he was the embodiment of hope from Pandora's box, and all that Pandora stuff), the attempt at humanization came across as so deeply unearned that it really made me dislike the III experience overall.

The way to redeem Kratos is to not redeem him. Don't give him a happy ending or path to redemption when he would never be able to make that work. At best, he can be an example of what not to become to his kid.

Is he for sure going to be redeemed, as in happy ending? Perhaps, for him, redeemed means not being a complete raging evil bastard, and wallow in the misery of his life forever. I am really looking forward to seeing what they do with this game. Really looking forward to playing.

 

[Two Words]

Is he for sure going to be redeemed, as in happy ending? Perhaps, for him, redeemed means not being a complete raging evil bastard, and wallow in the misery of his life forever. I am really looking forward to seeing what they do with this game. Really looking forward to playing.

To me, Kratos can show "redemption" or "progress" in more subtle ways. For example, just letting something go. In the previous GoW games, Kratos often found himself in situations where he was getting screwed over and he didn't care who he had to kill to get revenge. It would be nice to see his character recognize that this was all his own doing. Maybe he decides to pick his battles more and let some stuff go. It doesn't have to be like he turns into Dudly Do Right.

 

[Nimoy]

I got to the point where Kratos abuses that random sex slave and then brutally kills her by shoving her in gears to solve a puzzle. After that I never picked up the series again.

That's where it lost me too. I finished the game, but there is NOTHING admirable about Kratos anymore. I hope they manage to redeem him.

 

[GameAddict411]

Didn't Barlog work on the recent Tomb Raider reboots? Those games had horrible writing, characters and story. Until this new game comes out, Kratos will always be a weak character IMO. Barlog being at the helm is not a positive.

 

[More_Badass]

Didn't Barlog work on the recent Tomb Raider reboots? Those games had horrible writing, characters and story. Until this new game comes out, Kratos will always be a weak character IMO. Barlog being at the helm is not a positive.

He wasn't a writer, game designer, or game director for the game

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

It will be interesting to see what they do with Kratos and his kid in the game. Before this, Kratos always seemed like a man who the creators of the game didn't know what do with after the first game. It felt like they kept going down the more ridiculous and bloody part of that series and kept ignoring or even repeating some of the same ideas.

 

[HeeHo]

Surprised it took the author that long to feel that way. I was already very annoyed with Kratos even before the end of 1. It didn't stop me from buying GoW2, but yeah. I have always hated Kratos. 'RAAAAAAAGH' is my basic impersonation of him.

It's kind of hard for me not to be judgmental about people who think Kratos is badass for being so angry all the time too. I get it if you like the way he doesn't think twice about taking on Gods but his whole yelling shctick and being constantly angry seems like it's badass only in a juvenile sense.

I did not even bother to buy God of War 3 since I could not take any more of his yelling and threatening. I much prefer the direction they are taking now even though I'm not too sold on how the gameplay will end up..

I feel bad harping on this since I think they are overall good games and it's kind hard to not have a character always yelling if he's fighting 'the Gods'.

 

[Hellion]

Krotos was always toxic

Only thing missing was Krotos yelling at the kid "Be A Man!" from the trailer.

Maybe this is different.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

No, but for a lot of people, he stops the games from being great. Adding some depth to his character gives it that potential IMO

I'm in favor of both Kratos remaining the central character and SSM elevating their writing to modern game standards. I just want to hear about concrete details about gameplay, not artistic musings that may or may not amount to anything.

But I get why they're taking this PR approach as game journalists have long since reduced everything about GOW to "rawrgh anger!"

 

[ActWan]

It's the most natural and perfect route this character could take. If the game handles everything well, Kratos could become one of the GOATs.

 

[Loudninja]

As noted above, there are two ambitious narrative arcs in God of War on PS4. Firstly, how exactly do you chart the journey of a regular boy on his way to becoming a god? That’s a tough ask for any writing team.

“Well, it’s not so much Kratos teaching Atreus how to be a god, but how not to make the same mistakes he did,” Barlog clarifies.

“To Kratos, being a god is a disease. It’s a disease that he’s passed onto his kid, and he doesn’t want that. In our children, we often see our own mistakes – the worst parts of ourselves amplified. But Kratos hates everything about being a god. All he wants to do is make sure that the mistakes he’s made are not passed on and repeated.

“But then, of course, he also needs to make sure his kid can take care of himself – it’s not a friendly world out there…”

In turn, it’s up to Atreus – albeit perhaps subconsciously – to teach his father how to be human. So, of the two, who has the toughest job?

“Atreus!” replies Barlog without drawing breath.

“Kratos’ humanity is locked up in a vault deep inside him. The way to get to it is long and hard. But once Kratos gets there, relating to his son will be like riding a bike. It’s just been stamped down for so long.”

https://blog.eu.playstation.com/201...atos-son-atreus-grew-from-concept-to-reality/

 

[Schopenhauerian]

...but then I made the mistake of popping into 3 just to contrast the series. I got to the point where Kratos abuses that random sex slave and then brutally kills her by shoving her in gears to solve a puzzle. After that I never picked up the series again.

Wait, this really happens? I only played the first GoW game but he seemed more like an anti-hero out for revenge. That sounds like a sadistic asshole.

Yes he actually did that...

Let's hope the development team has grown up too so we're not getting trophies popping up on screen when he kills a female enemy going "SHOULDA BANGED HER INSTEAD LUL"

Think [Arkeband] was referring to the "I didn't do it...but I wish I did" trophy you get in the video I linked on the last page.

Holy shit at that whole scene. From the super buxom lady running around with her bare tits flopping around to Kratos crushing her inside the gears...

...The whole Poseidon Princess thing I found out later was beyond repulsive for me.

The way he has Poseidon's concubine crushed just so he can walk through a door is…sheesh...

Many folks have remarked on the Poseidon Princess scene in God of War 3 (2010), but I'm not sure if anyone at Sony Santa Monica has ever addressed that scene, specifically.

The articles that I'm finding which actually contain a kind of comment/acknowledgement from SSM are the articles which pertain specifically to a trophy that occurred in a subsequent game, Ascension (2013):

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...misogynistic-god-of-war-ascension-trophy-name
By Wesley Yin-Poole Published at Eurogamer on 12/03/2013

"The text was offensive to some members of our community and impacted their enjoyment of the game," Sony Santa Monica said in a statement issued last night.

"We are endlessly committed to ensuring that our community can fully enjoy the experiences the team has created. As such, we've addressed the feedback and amended the Trophy in question."

...The Trophy [in God of War: Ascension] had caused a somewhat muted debate online... God of War 3, for example, includes a Trophy called, "I didn't do it... but I wish I did", awarded for saving a Poseidon Princess before brutally crushing her under gears in order for series anti-hero Kratos to progress through a level...

https://www.pastemagazine.com/artic...r-must-move-beyond-the-series-history-of.html
By Kyle McKenney at Paste Magazine on 06/28/2016

...Perhaps the most reprehensible and disgusting moment in the God of War series occurs partway through God of War 3. Kratos is slaughtering his way through Poseidon’s Chamber when he happens upon a mostly naked woman, chained down in Poseidon’s sleeping quarters, crying out for help. Upon approaching her, the game displays the title “Poseidon Princess” on screen, though “Poseidon’s Sex Slave” would be far more honest on the developers’ part. She realizes it is Kratos and cowers back in fear, saying she doesn’t want his help. Kratos eventually finds his way into her room. She begs him to leave her there, but he grabs her, saying “Hold your tongue.” He breaks the chains and then forces her to accompany him.

Sony Santa Monica gives Kratos, and thus the player, control over this woman to instill a feeling of power, and then exposes her breasts for titillation. Kratos and the woman travel together for a short time and eventually come to a gate operated by a giant wheel-crank. The gate quickly shuts if the crank is not held up, so Sony Santa Monica has Kratos turn the crank, then grab the nameless, topless woman, and force her to hold it up so he can get through. She begs him not to but Kratos does so anyways. The weight of the crank crushes her to death as she screams, but her eviscerated body jams it, so Kratos/the player can still get through...

https://www.giantbomb.com/profile/e...-to-him-sex-and-violence-in-god-of-war/47004/
User Blog at Giantbomb on 04/23/2010
...Throughout the following scenes, as Kratos pushes her into each successive room--both protecting her and violently shoving her--any seasoned player of the God of War games begins to wonder if Hecuba will be the latest subject of the series' infamous sex mini games. I bring this up since this thought is disturbing in many ways, chiefly because Hecuba--in contrast to every other person Kratos has slept with--would be an unwilling participant... Kratos then slips through the gate and behind him you hear the sound of the princess' strengthgiving out as she's crushed by the weight of the wheel out of sight... In fact, the trophy that pops up after this scene is called "I Didn't Do It… But I Wish I Did."...

 

[AHA-Lambda]

If they achieve this then it will be their biggest accomplishment. Kratos was an insufferable asshole.

If they achieve this I'll actually bother playing it.

 

[kpaadet]

Didn't Barlog work on the recent Tomb Raider reboots? Those games had horrible writing, characters and story. Until this new game comes out, Kratos will always be a weak character IMO. Barlog being at the helm is not a positive.

Instead of trying to create a false narrative why don't you do some research?

 

[SolidSnakex]

Many folks have remarked on the Poseidon Princess scene in God of War 3 (2010), but I'm not sure if anyone at Sony Santa Monica has ever addressed that scene, specifically.

The articles that I'm finding which actually contain a kind of comment/acknowledgement from SSM are the articles which pertain specifically to a trophy that occurred in a subsequent game, Ascension (2013):

Because there's nothing to address. You've tried to bring this up in multiple GoW threads and people have continually pointed out to you that Kratos kills an innocent person in a horrendous way in the first three games. It was a running theme. What he does in GoW1 is actually far worse than what happens to the Poseidon princess.

 

[Schopenhauerian]

Because there's nothing to address. You've tried to bring this up in multiple GoW threads and people have continually pointed out to you that Kratos kills an innocent person in a horrendous way in the first three games. It was a running theme.

You'll notice that several others in this thread have brought it up themselves, independent of any intervention from me, and they've explained why they find it both pertinent to this topic and highly problematic; and I've added perspective from others (including the perspective from an articulate writer at a well-known, well-regarded publication) that explains why they feel the scene is highly problematic.

I acknowledged that SSM themselves, to their credit, acknowledged controversy in the case of Ascension (2013), and also noted that in contrast, it seems that SSM has thus far not done so in the case of the 'controversial' scene from God of War 3 (2010).

 

[Lionel Mandrake]

The Poseidon Princess sequence is like the only time in any game I can remember where I was actually angry with a developer for making me do something shitty and acting like it wasn't a big deal. Bullying a tortured and desperate sex slave is far more callous and "real" than Kratos's typical indifference to NPCs, which is often over-the-top and comical. It makes Kratos's sympathy for Pandora straight-up laughable considering what he just did.

It still makes me angry to this day. It actually makes the game less fun because I know that stupid section is in there.

 

[0ptimusPayne]

I will always laugh at the thought of somebody buying a game called God of War and being turned off because the main character isn't a nice guy 😂

Like seriously lmao..Up there with the Nathan Drake Mass Murderer topics. On topic: I am glad they're changing things up for the sake of freshness. I didn't care to play yet another game of the same tired old agenda he's had for many games. Like Krato's has always been an asshole, even before he cut down his OG family and became the Ghost of Sparta..

 

[Darklor01]

To me, Kratos can show "redemption" or "progress" in more subtle ways. For example, just letting something go.....

Isn't that how Beast is in Disney's Beauty and the Beast?

 

[SolidSnakex]

You'll notice that several others in this thread have brought it up themselves, independent of any intervention from me, and they've explained why they find it both pertinent to this topic and highly problematic; and I've added perspective from others (including the perspective from an articulate writer at a well-known, well-regarded publication) that explains why they feel the scene is highly problematic.

I acknowledged that SSM themselves, to their credit, acknowledged controversy in the case of Ascension (2013), and also noted that in contrast, it seems that SSM has thus far not done so in the case of the 'controversial' scene from God of War 3 (2010).

That doesn't change my point about it being a running theme in the series. In the original game Kratos literally pushes a man up a hill as he begs for his life and then puts him into place where he's burned alive. This is done to complete a puzzle just like with the Poseidon princess. Once completed in the PS3 version you earn a trophy called "Totally Baked". The room he's burned alive in also features a soldier with a letter next to him noting that he couldn't go through with that and so he decided to take his own life. That sequence was controversial enough that in the original European PS2 release the caged man was replaced by an undead warrior whose constantly clawing at Kratos.

 

[Simo]

There's a great new blog post on the official site detailing how the original piece of concept art helped shape the game and goes into detail on how the game evolved from it.

 

[Drilbit777]

At this point having kratos die and his son taking over for him while not leading down the same self destructive path he had would be the best choice for the series.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

Because there's nothing to address. You've tried to bring this up in multiple GoW threads and people have continually pointed out to you that Kratos kills an innocent person in a horrendous way in the first three games. It was a running theme. What he does in GoW1 is actually far worse than what happens to the Poseidon princess.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

They're all pretty shitty, so no need to "that's not even the only time he did thing" this.

It was the worst to me, though. Innocent sex slave that was being abused by the gods Kratos hates, and Kratos just kills her like that? Not sure that's a hill anybody should be dying on.

 

[A-V-B]

Kratos is literally an apocalypse-causing serial killer, though. Can't redeem that. The best you can hope for is that Kratos eventually knows how badly he fucked up, and how terrible he was to... well, everything and everyone. And then dies. That's literally the best you can do. He acknowledges his own shittiness and doesn't fuck up his son. That's a super mega happy ending for Kratos.

 

[KillLaCam]

I'm not interested in your me Kratos at all. But the game looks good overall. I can ignore Dad with slight anger problems

 

[A.Romero]

I remember that Kratos was supposed to be pure rage/anger since the original game. That was the concept they used to design the way he looks and his behaviour, David Jaffe himself says so on the videos that were included with the first game.

Kratos did a lot of tasteless shit in his quest for revenge and basically destroys the world. You can see a lot of innocent people dying when for example he kills Poseidon at the beginning of 3 (If I remember correctly there were some fishermen killed by waves and stuff like that).

Within that context, why wouldn't he burn a man or kill a sex slave? It sounds consistent to me. I remember playing the first game and feeling that killing the innocent caged man was totally unexpected but after that I never got really surprised from any of the shit he did.

After destroying the world, something normally reserved for villains, why should anyone expect any amount of consideration from his part?

I don't remember the Poseidon princess but to be honest I find it within the realm of what could be expected from the character. To me, Kratos wasn't supposed to be likeable and honestly I don't think all characters in any kind of media should be likeable.

Games tell stories and this particular story just happens to be about a genocidal maniac without any consideration for any kind of life. If anything, I'd be surprised (and a bit disappointed) if Kratos changes a lot during the new game.

If I wanted to play another traditional hero I rather go play other game, there are many clones out there like Dante's Inferno.

 

[sonicmj1]

I can't tell how much of my disgust with the series after God of War 3 was me growing up, and how much of it was just worse execution. In my recollection of it, God of War 1 is treated like a tragedy; Kratos believes he can find forgiveness by performing acts of barbarity and cruelty, but he is destroyed when he discovers that satisfying the gods cannot free him from his guilt. God of War 2 is a giant temper tantrum, but it doesn't pretend to be more than it is. Kratos is an unjustified asshole who makes everything worse. That's how it should be.

God of War 3 bothered me not just because Kratos was even crueler and less justified than before (his entire reason for hating Gaea is because she won't stop him from falling, even though helping would make them both fall), but because they try to present some kind of redemptive arc through the Pandora retcon. Why should Kratos deserve any sort of deliverance after all the horrible, selfish things he did? His noble turn felt completely out of character after he gave up on redemption in God of War 2. The end should have completed the tragedy, not averted it by having him find forgiveness and sacrifice himself for humanity's sake.

Even if he seems to have learned from his mistakes between 3 and this new game, I don't want to invest in him anymore.

That doesn't change my point about it being a running theme in the series. In the original game Kratos literally pushes a man up a hill as he begs for his life and then puts him into place where he's burned alive. This is done to complete a puzzle just like with the Poseidon princess. Once completed in the PS3 version you earn a trophy called "Totally Baked". The room he's burned alive in also features a soldier with a letter next to him noting that he couldn't go through with that and so he decided to take his own life. That sequence was controversial enough that in the original European PS2 release the caged man was replaced by an undead warrior whose constantly clawing at Kratos.

Kratos sacrifices the caged man to open a door that requires a human sacrifice. Similarly, Kratos is required to kill the translators in order to open the path forward in God of War 2. It's callous and self-centered, but he'll do what he has to do to get the job done.

In God of War 3, Kratos goes out of his way to use this innocent, unrelated person to prop open a crank inside a room where he fought off living stone statutes, who would be just as capable of handling the crank's weight. At the time I played it, it felt unusually gratuitous, the game stretching to introduce human sacrifice into a relatively mundane situation. It particularly stunk given the wider redemptive arc of the plot.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

The Poseidon Princess sequence is like the only time in any game I can remember where I was actually angry with a developer for making me do something shitty and acting like it wasn't a big deal. Bullying a tortured and desperate sex slave is far more callous and "real" than Kratos's typical indifference to NPCs, which is often over-the-top and comical. It makes Kratos's sympathy for Pandora straight-up laughable considering what he just did.

It still makes me angry to this day. It actually makes the game less fun because I know that stupid section is in there.

GoW3 is the only game in the trilogy that I didnt beat more than once in large part because of this scene. Other parts being the brutal murder of Zeus' wife near the end and Kratos being an overall asshole by the end of the game leaving me empty and thinking "this series should've ended with GoW2".

 

[Veelk]

The Poseidon Princess sequence is like the only time in any game I can remember where I was actually angry with a developer for making me do something shitty and acting like it wasn't a big deal. Bullying a tortured and desperate sex slave is far more callous and "real" than Kratos's typical indifference to NPCs, which is often over-the-top and comical. It makes Kratos's sympathy for Pandora straight-up laughable considering what he just did.

It still makes me angry to this day. It actually makes the game less fun because I know that stupid section is in there.

Ironically, it's still in keeping with Kratos' character. Kratos only cares about people insofar as he can relate them to other people in his life and this has been true as far back as the first game where he is happy to murder scared, innocent women and children, so long as they don't happen to be his women and children.

Kratos feels nothing murdering the sex slave because he never personally cared for a sex slave. He had a daughter though so Pandora is someone he can kinda, sorta imagine as her (Which doesn't stop him from throwing her to the fire when Zeus calls him a chicken over it, but still.)

My point is that people act like Kratos became more awful in the later games as opposed to the first one, but stuff like that is perfectly in character.

Kratos sacrifices the caged man to open a door that requires a human sacrifice. Similarly, Kratos is required to kill the translators in order to open the path forward in God of War 2. It's callous and self-centered, but he'll do what he has to do to get the job done.

In God of War 3, Kratos goes out of his way to use this innocent, unrelated person to prop open a crank inside a room where he fought off living stone statutes, who would be just as capable of handling the crank's weight. At the time I played it, it felt unusually gratuitous, the game stretching to introduce human sacrifice into a relatively mundane situation. It particularly stunk given the wider redemptive arc of the plot.

I don't know, I don't see much of a distinction. Kratos tends to brute force his way through puzzles one way or another. He could have found another way or a way to just break the door or something if he wanted to. But why would he when the convienent way is just to murder some random passerby to make the thing he needs happen? You're argument is that Kratos was only cruel out of necessity for his journey, and while that may have been true in gameplay terms, we know his character isn't like that. He's cruel because he doesn't see a compelling reason not to do these things.

 

[meerak]

Kratos was always a piece of shit.

Just happened that some of us were young pieces of shit back then too!

I dunno about this whole "redemption" arc but making him more interesting than a one-dimensional trash bucket of a personality sounds like a good idea.

 

[Lionel Richie]

This is still pretty damn jarring in my eyes. Kratos wasn't just an asshole, he was much more than that. He wasn't morally ambiguous, he was a downright villain who murdered so many innocent people and it worked and actually it was pretty fun playing as the bad guy for a change. He is beyond redemption and that should be fine, but we can't have that, need that grey area for deepness.

 

[More_Badass]

This is still pretty damn jarring in my eyes. Kratos wasn't just an asshole, he was much more than that. He wasn't morally ambiguous, he was a downright villain who murdered so many innocent people and it worked and actually it was pretty fun playing as the bad guy for a change. He is beyond redemption and that should be fine, but we can't have that, need that grey area for deepness.

You don't think such a character would change after hundreds of years of exile/wandering/etc., no longer in the service of the gods or trying to kill them, no vengeance to achieve, no wars to fight, no family to avenge or save

And we've seen Kratos care about and try to save others, mainly his mother, brother, and daughter

 

[poodaddy]

Antiheroes are more often than not super likable compared to vanilla types

You get the point. Give them some moral code they still stick to, some character growth and people like these fuckers

Iron man and James Bond are most certainly not antiheroes, but I understand and agree with the general sentiment of your post.