Google "software engineering" if you're really interested.
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Gran Turismo 6 to feature Mount Panorama
- Thread starter Goldrusher
- Start date
Google "software engineering" if you're really interested.
SolidSnake can tell the more accurate numbers probably, but car modelling staff has been on approx. 50 on the moment GT5 released.
Soon after GT5 release they started hiring for the modelling crew, it was an official job listening on the PD page (in the same time they were hiring for network/online and such positions).
Earthquake happen in March 2011 with heavy and non-erasable aftermath for PD as a company and private life of its employees.
I can understand all criticism towards GT5 especially, but everyone seems to forget how game of that scope has been brought to life by less than 150 people in one single studio. And it is such a complex project and such a magnificent achievement from many perspectives imaginable.. I don't know. Maybe I am taking too many things into perspective.
Metalmurphy
Member
It kinda does. I would have agreed if it was an initial burst of sales, people fooled by a previous title, but continuous good sales? And even a re-release selling well? Yeah no. People don't buy shit games like that.
Personally I think it is a great game. I wouldn't be playing it 1 year later if it wasn't. Does it have faults? Plenty. Could it have been better, ofc. Doesn't mean it's not a great game.
Also it is unrealistic to expect all 800 standard cars to be turned into premiums. They could have just removed them and most of the complaining about it would have disappeared, but that would have been the worst option. I'm glad the standards are in the game.
Still nothing on PD bad management.
phosphor112
Banned
It launched a disappointment, but the amount of support GT5 has gotten, as well as physics fixes, bug fixes and added features (something you don't see in ANY other game) has made the game a beast. I still play it today and I love it.
Kenshin001
Member
Where did they say this? And who are they? The first thing PD should have done is hire a bilingual community manager so there is some kind of exchange of ideas going on. Can't believe after the fiasco that was GT5 and the backlash it got they still haven't done this.
corporate cheerleader
Member
It should, PS4 needs a really strong launch. ;(
Sony has never been in this deep shit as they are now aswell...
TIMES WILL CHANGE THE LORD OF GAMES WILL RETURN
phosphor112
Banned
No. Forza has MANY great features that trump the ones in GT5, but physics is not one of them.
mclaren777
Member
call of duty black ops continuously sells, is it a great game? fuck no. i like GT5 but it is not up to the par of previous GT's in terms of quality consistency. the idea of future proofing the cars but only completing a few hundred and the rest being PS2 models is a terrible idea
phosphor112
Banned
Word. The lighting engine and the huge update that fixed the jaggie polygons on the cars really helps the cars blend in. The only time I don't notice is during a night race when I don't have an option for high/low beams and cockpit.. which i never use. It's fun to look at in replay though.
Did you just compared COD to GT5? Lol. Sure GT5 isn't 100% polished, but it's better than the mess that COD stands for now.
I just counted the car modelers in the credits.... :/ Even including the car modeling directors, it's only 33 people, which includes the 28 car modelers. Unless PD left out the names of 20+ people.
Yeah I saw that job listing, wasn't it for a car modeling assistant or something?
Yes, it was terrible, but I'm not sure what the Tohoku disaster had to do with GT5, which was released in 2010.
GT5 is a HUGE game, probably the biggest from Sony (SCEJ) and yet only 150 people worked on it, it really isn't that much by today's standard for a game this big in scope. Look at how many people are working on COD, AC etc. It's up in the 300-400 people.
no...it was an example of a game that sells while not being that good, not saying that GT5 isnt good but just because it sold 7million copies doesnt make it a great game.
Metalmurphy
Member
Well...yes? It's multiplayer is great for many, many people. It's the most played online game on consoles for a reason. It's not my personal cup of tea, not really a fan of tight spaces/corridor shooters, but you can't deny the following it has.
I agree with the first part, but it's worth noting that GT5 was released before it should due to Sony pressure.
I don't agree with the second part. Again, converting all cars to premium, with cockpits, is something that would have NEVER happened. And losing that entire encyclopedia of cars is NOT a good thing. It's also silly to assume that if they did you would have gotten more premiums in return.
phosphor112
Banned
It's a great game because it's a great game. Sure, on release I was highly upset, but other than the lack of cars (which I'm kinda glad they are saving for GT6) I'm loving this game. They constantly add more and more features. They just released more last night!
If you were to say the game was bad, at launch. I'd agree, but if you contest it's still bad, I'd have to highly disagree.
I think almost everyone acknowledges that each worker did amazing things, it's just that there are not enough of them to match the vision that Kaz throws at them.
its following consisting of fratboys and 12 year olds, black ops is a crap game and i gave it a real chance.
it could have happened if PD outsourced, but nooooooo thats not good enough for kaz, sometimes being a perfectionist is a bad thing
NinjaBoiX
Member
They really need to get the menus, loading and optimisation shit sorted next time. I adored the on track experience for GT5, but everything else was so bad. Incoherent messy menus, inconsistent design, awful loading, obtuse navigation it was just a mess. I couldn't muster up the energy to plug away at it. Hate to mention the big F, but Forza does it right. You can buy a car, individually upgrade each part, apply a custom designed skin, and be on the track inside 2 minutes. That would take around 10 minutes on GT5. It's just not worth the effort.
We can probably argue a lot of things about GT development, but I don't think "saving money" during development is one of them.Metalmurphy said:
That said - while there are certainly projects that were developed over long-periods of time for largely qualitative reasons, what public visibility we've had of GT5 shared a lot more symptoms with the likes of DNF that were on the less favorable end of long-term projects.
phosphor112
Banned
Loading is fine now. But there are arbitrary black screens and SLIDE animations in between menus that make them take longer than they need to.
Metalmurphy
Member
rolleyes.gif
It would have been an insane amount of outsourcing. Even Forza with the outsourcing only managed ~400. The costs would be insane. That's what I would consider to be bad management. And being a perfectionist or not there is a real issue on cars not being accurate when outsourcing. It's one thing to have a specific section dedicated to legacy cars, it's another thing to have cars passing off as premiums with a difference in quality and even bad proportions/design mistakes. Either the drawbacks are minimal in comparison to having a proper cockpit view and such, now that's another story.
mclaren777
Member
Metalmurphy
Member
No. That's an hardware limitation. It's not exclusive to GT5.
i think you forgot the image tags! but great argument
yes but look at how long GT5 took to develop, they could have easily outsourced all the cars. The fact that there are even premium and standard cars is a joke to me, seriously how do people even accept that? every car added to forza since 3 has been pretty much perfect, and look how quickly the cars are coming in DLC's, i think PD need to take note
mclaren777
Member
I wouldn't call it a hardware issue. PD could code around the alpha channel limitations of the PS3 and make the smoke/mist look nice, but it's electing to continue down this route because it obviously values other aspects of the graphics engine more.
Metalmurphy
Member
You mean by making them ugly 2D sprites and not actual volumetric smoke that gets lit properly, moves properly, and is able to have shadows cast on it?
I rather have this one thanks.
Did you really just complained about me not making a great argument when replying to a "its following consisting of fratboys and 12 year olds, black ops is a crap game and i gave it a real chance" post? Seriously?
And not trying to hate here, but plenty of cars in Forza have design mistakes, it's not particularly hard to tell which ones were outsourced. And I'm not even saying this is a big deal, but just something that actually exists, and for Kaz, it might be a bigger problem then it is for most people. But yeah, there's no denying how fast they can put out new cars.
forza 1 and 2 models vary from accurate to shit, but since forza 3 most models seem to be very good, as the guy said earlier PD needs much more people modelling cars
To be fair, PD does a lot more than most other japanese devs. Actually, they do quiet a lot in general.
GT4 in 05
Tourist Trophy and GTHD in 06
GT5
in 07GT PSP in 09
GT5 in 2010
Then a bunch of collabs, including:
GT by Citroen
GT-R display (w/ Nissan)
Data Logger Visualization (w/ Toyota)
And they are also involved in things such as the GT Academy and GT Awards.
You seem to know a lot, so please tell me, how long did it take to develop GT5? take in mind that they were doing all of the stuff above.
So very wrong.
GT5 already pushes the ps3 to its limits... no point making another iteration on dated hardware.
Graphics Horse
Member
Metalmurphy
Member
brotkasten
Member
They won't understand. People called me an idiot because I wanted working skid marks on track. They always came with the argument that it doesn't even affect the gameplay in any way or form.
Metalmurphy
Member
Well, I was in the camp that didn't find it that important, but I never called you an idiot. I still stand my ground, they're not that important, you already have those permanent skid marks embeded in the tracks if you want to check for braking points, and if you want to pay attention to locked breaks no one, and i mean no one, looks for skid marks. Smoke > Skidmarks. But hey, we got both.
phosphor112
Banned
Are you telling me that they eradicated this issue?
If you want to be the dick hole that you always are, at least know what the fuck you are talking about.
That has to do with alpha layers being rendered at lower resolution so it won't eat up memory. I'm talking about these jaggies.
Vanilla GT5:
Post 1.06:
You just like to shit in EVERY GT thread. Seriously get the fuck out.
Elvin Atombender
Member
Is there a "what we want in GT6" thread?
mclaren777
Member
Whoa, where did that response come from? I just asked a simple question because I didn't understand what you meant. Calm down.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
Are you telling me that they eradicated this issue?
Why can't the GT games show smoke through windows in replay? It has always bugged me that one.
GT6 needs adjustable steering ratios and an EvoPool developed rally mode.
phosphor112
Banned
Yeah, I doubt that. You do this in every GT thread. We now the flaws of GT5. We've raved against them since the fucking start, but you just keep going. Every. Single. Fucking. Time.
It's so annoying. We get it. GT5 isn't up to par with PC sims. That's a given. We get it. Graphics aren't as consistent as Forza's. But give the game some credit. At least pretend to like it a little bit instead of coming into every GT thread as a fucking Debbie Downer. It's infuriating.
Proper sorting of multiple transparency layers would be prohibitively expensive.
Rendering transparent effects at a lower resolution has more to do with the limited pixel fillrate/performance cost. There are ways to fix the edge artefacting (still lower cost than full res rendering), but the name of the game is supposed to be 60fps, and it's just extra performance cost.
Metalmurphy
Member
Shiiiit. Won't be able to unsee that from now on lol.
phosphor112
Banned
I don't think the fillrate is the issue as it is with lack of memory to accommodate the native/near native alpha channels? I mean... it can be the fillrate that is giving them problems but Kaz has said that trying to squeeze all they can in the memory given has been a challenge.
Oh, so it is the hardware. I remember seeing this same distorted effect in KZ3 snow stages and wondering about it. But yeah, I'm glad they kept the smoke effects. It enhances the experience and the people still left playing have long come to terms with the visual inconsistencies.
Wow, don't let it get to you like that dude. I've gotten banned for less "aggressive" posts.
GreggTheGrimReaper
Member
One area where GT lacks is in european (premium) supercars. I wish they'll give us more of that next time because while japanese cars are definitely the most reliable in the real world, japanese car makers rarely have an idea how to build a beautiful and exciting car. I would rather drive a Lamborghini Countach from the interior view next time than hundreds of Nissans.
PjotrStroganov
Member
I guess we are at that point again. I was fervently against the inclusion of standard cars before the game was released and I didn't like them after I had played it. Wonky and slow menu's and same ol' career mode cemented the idea that this game was unfinished and inconsistent. After all the patches it has become quite capable though. PD has shown they listen to community feedback (thank god for removing the recommended gear indicator) which lets the player focus more on the superb driving engine underneath.
But Kaz. PLEASE FIX THE ENGINE SOUNDS! I don't care how you do it. Change your recording methods, or re-sample existing recordings, just make it sound like I'm driving a car with an engine connected to an exhaust. It's the only thing that is currently turning me off from playing GT5.
But Kaz. PLEASE FIX THE ENGINE SOUNDS! I don't care how you do it. Change your recording methods, or re-sample existing recordings, just make it sound like I'm driving a car with an engine connected to an exhaust. It's the only thing that is currently turning me off from playing GT5.
AgentChris
Member
I hope GT6 is for PS4 because 3D trees and such.