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[jayu26]

"Jeff doesn't like sim racers" is silly and reductionary.

The biggest take away from that quick look for me was their point about this game being a niche of a niche. I think they are right on that.

I do like sim racers. I've played every Forza and Gran Turismo game and GT3 is one of my favourite games of all time. There are aspects of GTS that I think are total nonsense and I was stunned watching that Quick Look at some of the core design decisions in this game.

"Not liking sim racers" and having major issues with GT Sport sound like separate criticisms to me. I genuinely don't think they're the same thing.

If you referring to ghosting than Jeff got it completely wrong. It is very clear when cars become solid again and you shouldn't be treating them as opportunity to easily pass to begin with. They should be treated as someone to be cautious of.

Dammit, top of the page. Have a gif.

 

[farisr]

I replied to the "how would you know when they are about to go solid". Even if you are using bonnet cam without using the proximity map all you have to do is use your right stick to look around from time to time. You should have some sort of awareness of what cars are around you and react accordingly.

No, you also replied to my other post.

Well, then Jeff wasn't able to figure it out, and I wasn't either from the video. It wasn't apparent. Also how are you supposed to be able to tell there's a ghost car that's basically riding on you or slightly off to the side (and see the flashes) in a bumper cam situation?

I've not had a problem with it personally but if enough people have similar issues then they should look at making it proximity sensitive or something. Either that or some sort of notification on screen for the drivers that are in the vicinity of the ghosted car.

zero mention of proximity map being even a thing.

 

[Makikou]

If you referring to ghosting than Jeff got it completely wrong. It is very clear when cars become solid again and you shouldn't be treating them as opportunity to easily pass to be begin with. They should be treated as someone to be cautious of.

Jeff getting something wrong and people taking it as facts?

Never happened in any other game ever before... oh wait.

 

[Curious Puppy]

He's a sim racing fan that hasn't liked a sim racing game since Forza Motorsport 3?

He's like all of them until 7, and made a point about 7 nailing the driving and visuals but putting him off because of the loot box progression, along with reusing old tracks.

 

[robotrock]

He's like all of them until 7, and made a point about 7 nailing the driving and visuals but putting him off because of the loot box progression, along with reusing old tracks.

if someone's getting bummed out about the repeated use of real life tracks in racing games, that sounds like they're losing interest in the sim-racing genre

 

[krang]

 

[Spukc]

He was a fan during the X360 Forza times, not seeing that anymore.

But that's fine, games are not made for everyone.

Jim sterling

I loved 4 5 and 6 but i don't like this one 🤔

 

[Rodelero]

He's like all of them until 7, and made a point about 7 nailing the driving and visuals but putting him off because of the loot box progression, along with reusing old tracks.

From what he was saying on a recent podcast it was fairly obvious that the franchise had been appealing to him less and less for a long time, 7 was kind of a breaking point (combined with Forza Horizon providing him almost exactly with what he actually wants).

 

[jayu26]

Jim sterling

I loved 4 5 and 6 but i don't like this one 🤔

Did you go into the Sports mode? Which part did you not like?

 

[Curious Puppy]

if someone's getting bummed out about the repeated use of real life tracks in racing games, that sounds like they're losing interest in the sim-racing genre

No, it sounds like he's bummed out about repeated use of tracks. Because that's what he said.

 

[jayu26]

No, it sounds like he's bummed out about repeated use of tracks. Because that's what he said.

There are only so many real world tracks. After 7 games you are going to start using same tracks in a sim racer. If he doesn't like repeated tracks then he is losing interest in sim racers because that's what sim racers do, use real world tracks. In fact that is one big knock against GT Sport, it should really have more real world tracks.

 

[Spukc]

Did you go into the Sports mode? Which part did you not like?

Played the demo missed the single player mode missed b-spec mode.
Want more cars.
Dont want to wait to start a match online.

All the stuff i did get in previous games are lacking this time imo. Which is a shame imo.
So a 7 seems to be about fair.
Like i said before i hope they will adjust this game like they did with driveclub.

 

[jayu26]

Played the demo missed the single player mode missed b-spec mode.
Want more cars.
Dont want to wait to start a match online.

All the stuff i did get in previous games are lacking this time imo. Which is a shame imo.
So a 7 seems to be about fair.
Like i said before i hope they will adjust this game like they did with driveclub.

Shame you didn't even give Sport mode a shot.

 

[Rodelero]

Played the demo missed the single player mode missed b-spec mode.
Want more cars.
Dont want to wait to start a match online.

For what it's worth, the races now start every five minutes rather than twenty, so the waiting is pretty limited.

 

[the_darkness]

He's a sim racing fan that hasn't liked a sim racing game since Forza Motorsport 3?

We just completely fabricating shit now?

 

[robotrock]

No, it sounds like he's bummed out about repeated use of tracks. Because that's what he said.

he's commented on this more than a few times over the years, suggesting that while he is disappointed in the repeated use of tracks, it's understandable because there are only so many real world tracks out there that they can put into these games. i'd like to say these thoughts come from a bombcast released on the week of forza 7.

of course you're going to get repeated tracks. they're simulators.

 

[Maintenance]

 

 

[Curious Puppy]

he's commented on this more than a few times over the years, suggesting that while he is disappointed in the repeated use of tracks, it's understandable because there are only so many real world tracks out there that they can put into these games. i'd like to say these thoughts come from a bombcast released on the week of forza 7.

of course you're going to get repeated tracks. they're simulators.

So what? He's not a "real" sim racer fan because he wants some track variety? I don't even understand what point is trying to be made anymore, I was responding to someone saying Jeff never liked these games to begin with.

 

[farisr]

Shame you didn't even give Sport mode a shot.

I did however, and it didn't hook me. I'm never going to have enough time to put into the game to get near the front of the pack, and I don't get thrills or satisfaction out of battling for eleventh place (and ending up in 6th-8th after the post-race adjustments). It's like playing a souls game but despite your skills improving over time, the bosses are always putting more time in than you are and will demolish you every time you face them.

The SR system is also not perfect at this point in time and causes undue frustration.

Didn't like the 20 minute wait times for the races either, but that's been reduced to 5 now so at least that's better.

 

[MikeBison]

Man, there's some weird defensive attitudes around this game. "Are you aren't qualified to review a sim racer" Like a huge amount of us grew up on Gran Turismo. I'm not even a huge racing fan but I played every GT through to 6 because I found them fun. But GT Sport is like a big ol' can of beige paint. It's so sterile. Obviously I'm no reviewer but I can see why plenty of reviewers don't absolutely love the game.

The old review for the mass consumer or for the niche enthusiast debate.

 

[MikeBison]

Oh and Re the track issues for racers, if you're making games with the same tracks every single year, it's not out of the realm of possibility to you know...make one up.

Racing games used to do that from time to time.

 

[Maintenance]

 

 

[robotrock]

So what? He's not a "real" sim racer fan because he wants some track variety?

Wanting less real life tracks in your simulation game doesn't make any sense. He specifically says he doesn't want to race the Nürburgring anymore, but what are you going to do, remove the Nürburgring? That will go well.

 

[xrnzaaas]

It's funny how the OT for GTS is pretty clean and all the juicy bits are found in this thread. Imagine how more interesting GAF would be if every review thread would put reviewers under a microscope and had their background checked (and double checked) to make sure they can do their job.

 

[Moze]

No, it's certainly not encouraged in Forza, even in Forza Horizon. It's just not discouraged in any kind of effective way. I also don't think people enjoy driving sloppy as much as you think, but time will tell. I think the state of online in, say, Forza, is much more a case of a misbehaving minority wrecking things for everyone else, leading to a situation where the clean drivers stop trying and the playerbase becomes worse and worse.



I don't think Jeff represents the average Gran Turismo player, no. He doesn't even like Gran Turismo, he has always massively preferred Forza.

So you don't think the drivatar feature encourages aggressive driving? That's just wrong. It absolutely does encourage very aggressive driving. An aggressive drivatar is much more effective.

 

[Curious Puppy]

Wanting less real life tracks in your simulation game doesn't make any sense. He specifically says he doesn't want to race the Nürburgring anymore, but what are you going to do, remove the Nürburgring? That will go well.

Ok, so he's not a "real" fan since he wants new tracks, and apparently isn't qualified to do his job. I see we've reached that point in the thread. This is just embarrassing now.

By the way, he never said Nurburgring should be taken out of new Forza or GT games.

 

[outunderthestars]

Oh and Re the track issues for racers, if you're making games with the same tracks every single year, it's not out of the realm of possibility to you know...make one up.

Racing games used to do that from time to time.

Agreed. You can still create tracks and be a simulation based racing game.

 

[Synth]

Yeah, but when you're missing crucial tracks like Spa and La Sarthe it's not a positive.

Being annoyed by track reuse doesn't necessarily mean the desire for fictional ones, or even that previous tracks be cut. You can simply be annoyed the 90%+ off the tracks come from preceding iterations, with few new tracks added. This would include other real-world tracks, where you may be comparing the tracklist to something like Project Cars and wondering how the fuck they got there in one game whilst being crowd funded, in comparison to these other series that are flagship IPs for their console manufacturer, and are on their 7th iterations.

 

[Maintenance]

 

 

[robotrock]

Ok, so he's not a "real" fan since he wants new tracks, and apparently isn't qualified to do his job. I see we've reached that point in the thread. This is just embarrassing now.

By the way, he never said Nurburgring should be taken out of new Forza or GT games.

I didn't say any of this at all, but OK dude.

 

[Curious Puppy]

I didn't say any of this at all, but OK dude.

Then what are you saying? The implication here is that he's not qualified to be a sim racer reviewer if he wants new tracks or some such nonsensical shit like that.

Sure, I wouldn't mind new tracks at all. But I wouldn't trade old ones for imaginary ones. GTS adding Interlagos was a cool feature, but missing staple ones and adding a lot of fictional ones is not something that I liked.

No one is talking about trading one for the other.

 

[MikeBison]

Wanting less real life tracks in your simulation game doesn't make any sense. He specifically says he doesn't want to race the Nürburgring anymore, but what are you going to do, remove the Nürburgring? That will go well.

I listened to the bombast when talking about tracks in relation to Forza. He never said he wanted less real tracks, rather more tracks and some new maybe made up ones. Says that driving the Ring year i year out does nothing for him. Which is fair enough. I've driven the ring in real life and still couldn't care less about driving on it in a game after doing so for like 20 years.

 

[bennibop]

Ok, so he's not a "real" fan since he wants new tracks, and apparently isn't qualified to do his job. I see we've reached that point in the thread. This is just embarrassing now.

By the way, he never said Nurburgring should be taken out of new Forza or GT games.

Its fairly transparent as to why you are on this thread anyway so no loss.

 

[robotrock]

Then what are you saying? The implication here is that he's not qualified to be a sim racer reviewer if he wants new tracks or some such nonsensical shit like that.

Try not to jump to conclusions, maybe?

I never said Jeff wasn't qualified to review a video game, and everything he's said about this and Forza and whatever is perfectly valid. I just think, if you're bored of the real life tracks, sim racers may be less interesting to you.

I listened to the bombast when talking about tracks in relation to Forza. He never said he wanted less real tracks, rather more tracks and some new maybe made up ones. Says that driving the Ring year i year out does nothing for him. Which is fair enough. I've driven the ring in real life and still couldn't care less about driving on it in a game after doing so for like 20 years.

yeah, I don't think he wants these games to have less tracks, but if the Ring does nothing for him, I don't see how else he'd like that problem to be solved. more imaginary tracks would be good but you're probably still gonna race the ring at some point.

 

[Rodelero]

So what? He's not a "real" sim racer fan because he wants some track variety? I don't even understand what point is trying to be made anymore, I was responding to someone saying Jeff never liked these games to begin with.

I don't think what people are saying is that controversial... I think you feel like we're saying something very simplistic and incorrect but we're actually saying something quite nuanced but accurate.

I'm not suggesting that Jeff hasn't enjoyed these games in the past, but I think it's clear the elements he enjoys aren't the elements that make them sim racers. He would certainly never enjoy the, lets say, purer sim racers like Project Cars, rFactor, iRacing, and so on. He likes the less realistic elements primarily. He doesn't care about motorsports. He doesn't value realism. He loves the car-RPG, not the racing sim behind it. That's incidental. With the racing sim removed/reduced, as in Horizon, he is happier.

Jeff quotes from Bombcast:
"I do not care enough about motorsports to value that"
"They're getting closer to reality all the time.. and that's cool. But that's boring."
"As someone who doesn't really care about the reality of it..."
"I feel like I'm falling further and further away from Forza Motorsport since the launch of the Xbox One"
"Forza got accessible and great in a way that Gran Turismo never did"
"Forza 3 and Forza 4, to me, was the sweetspot"

 

[Luckydog]

The ghosting of cars to stop people merging back on to the track without consideration for others or those intentional driving wrecklessly is a great addition.

If Jeff doesn't understand why it happens then he simply isn't the demographic for this game and he would be better off sticking to racing games where people bashing the shit out of each other online is acceptable behaviour.



Ghosted cars flash 3 times before coming back into existence. If in doubt simply avoid them entirely.

Having listened to the podcase, It wasn't an issue of not understanding why it happened, but that he felt it wasn't consistent. I have not played the final game so I can't say myself, but he is not the first person I have heard with this complaint. If the way this is implemented isnt clear to someone who has spent decades with every time of game under the sun, I don't think its fair to say "he just doesnt understand" or "he should just play more".

 

[Curious Puppy]

I don't think what people are saying is that controversial... I think you feel like we're saying something very simplistic and incorrect but we're actually saying something quite nuanced but accurate.

I'm not suggesting that Jeff hasn't enjoyed these games in the past, but I think it's clear the elements he enjoys aren't the elements that make them sim racers. He would certainly never enjoy the, lets say, purer sim racers like Project Cars, rFactor, iRacing, and so on. He likes the less realistic elements primarily. He doesn't care about motorsports. He doesn't value realism. He loves the car-RPG, not the racing sim behind it. That's incidental. With the racing sim removed/reduced, as in Horizon, he is happier.

Jeff quotes from Bombcast:
"I do not care enough about motorsports to value that"
"They're getting closer to reality all the time.. and that's cool. But that's boring."
"As someone who doesn't really care about the reality of it"
"I feel like I'm falling further and further away from Forza Motorsport since the launch of the Xbox One"
"Forza got accessible and great in a way that Gran Turismo never did"
"Forza 3 and Forza 4, to me, was the sweetspot"

A full blown psycho-analysis and background check. Wow.

Listen, if he likes the Forza Motorsport games, he likes sim racers. Your statement was wrong. Trying to psycho-analyse him to find out whether he really likes the... pure elements, or whatever, doesn't matter.

 

[Bumhead]

If you referring to ghosting than Jeff got it completely wrong. It is very clear when cars become solid again and you shouldn't be treating them as opportunity to easily pass to begin with. They should be treated as someone to be cautious of.

Dammit, top of the page. Have a gif.

Nah, I actually do agree Jeff was a bit off with his complaints on the ghosting. I get that and how it works and was surprised Jeff didn't. I do think he was right with regards to your driving rating being negatively affected when else shunts you off the track, which is an issue if it's a prevalent thing here.

I was more referring to a lot of the systems surrounding the racing. Stuff like the state of the campaign, the incredibly limited offline options and the wait to get into time slotted races etc..

I think it's entirely feasible somebody could love Gran Turismo since the very first game, yet find major issues with GT Sport that put them off playing it entirely both and off the track. This isn't a clear cut traditional Gran Turismo release and people do have issues with that. As I say, I find moaning about Jeff being jaded or that he just doesn't like sim racers to be reductionary excuse making.

 

[Inuhanyou]

So the game seems to have a lot of issues. Quite the shame but, sim racers were never my thing in the first place. Polyphony has really dropped the ball significantly since GT5 came out. Since the start of the 7th gen they cant seem to make a game that just works despite the years they spend on it. Why is that?

 

[BLAUcopter]

Don't know why people are getting butt hurt about Giant Bombs quick looks or even using them as an insightful preview. They are essentially getting paid to give hot takes on something they have spent next to no time with. Informative and well researched they are not but they are entertaining if you enjoy their humour. Quick looks go one of two ways, I like it now lets make some jokes or I don't like it now lets joke about.

I love how everyone is hating on giant bomb and quick looks because they didn't like the game. Even if they can't race like "pros" it still shows you all the game features, progression, menus, content or black there of. You can hate on them as much as you like but it's not like they were hiding any features or gameplay. It's shows the game as-is and a lot of people don't like what's being offered.

 

[Maintenance]

 

 

[rager]

oh well

 

[Dr.Phibes]

Just to clarify something: Forza and GT aren't sims.

 

[bennibop]

Having listened to the podcase, It wasn't an issue of not understanding why it happened, but that he felt it wasn't consistent. I have not played the final game so I can't say myself, but he is not the first person I have heard with this complaint. If the way this is implemented isnt clear to someone who has spent decades with every time of game under the sun, I don't think its fair to say "he just doesnt understand" or "he should just play more".

I have spent decades gaming and the implementation is very clear, in fact I would say the the ghosting is actually worthy praise - I believe some other sites have complemented how it is handled.

 

[robotrock]

A full blown psycho-analysis and background check. Wow.

Listen, if he likes the Forza Motorsport games, he likes sim racers. Your statement was wrong. Trying to psycho-analyse him to find out whether he really likes the... pure elements, or whatever, doesn't matter.

wish you didn't edit your old post where you graciously told the Giant Bomb GAF community about how you were hanging out in the Gran Turismo Sport Review thread to "point out the stupidity and laugh"

 

[Luckydog]

I have spent decades gaming and the implementation is very clear, in fact I would say the the ghosting is actually worthy praise - I believe some other sites have complemented how it is handled.

That's great....You clearly are the pinnacle of a video gamer and we all bow down before your expertise. All the other plebes, who clearly need to "git good" and are unhappy with this particular part, or any particular part of the game must be wrong.

 

[LordOcidax]

Back to 76... That 10 didn't helped. Please PD go back to GT3 formula.

 

[amar212]

Just to clarify something: Forza and GT aren't sims.

Having just returned from the sweet real world track racing of the Porsche Challenge 911 GTS I honestly think you are wrong regarding GTS.

Real life track racing is not hard, proper cars handle like dream and you dont need slick tyres to have amazing levels of grip.

I find "hard" simulation games extremely unrealistic.

 

[darkwing]

Back to 76... That 10 didn't helped. Please PD go back to GT3 formula.

it's not coming back

 

[bennibop]

That's great....You clearly are the pinnacle of a video gamer and we all bow down before your expertise. All the other plebes, who clearly need to "git good" and are unhappy with this particular part, or any particular part of the game must be wrong.

How did you get there! Reviewer don't always get it right.


case in point https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLLFT2NPXRk