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[Yen]

What I always found curious about Varoufakis is how he managed to write so many articles in newspapers and, according to a Spiegel journalist, answered mails with requests for interviews in under 20 minutes. It's almost like this guy didn't have a busy schedule as one of the key figures in this entire crisis. He was apparently to busy to submit a damn proposal on time when the current marathon of negotiations kicked off.

Took his Modern Political Economy book from the library, and the articles that appear in the Guardian etc seem to be lifted almost straight from that (plus his Modest Proposal stuff).

 

[Coriolanus]

Printing bills just generates colorful paper, not actual money.

Define money.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

He probably can't. From what I've seen, almost nobody outside of Germany has any idea what happened, most people in Germany never really understood what happened, and the articles you'll find online, on Wikipedia for example, are largely ideologic drivel. Really depressing. It's basically "and then, Germany reunified and lived happily ever after", as if it was a walk in the park. Reunification cost us roughly €2 trillion, with an additional €100 billion every year to this day. And the East is still not quite on par.

Its a deutschland thing

 

[wsippel]

Define money.

You know exactly what I mean. Money requires equivalent value. Money without equivalent value is colorful paper.

 

[Piecake]

He probably can't. From what I've seen, almost nobody outside of Germany has any idea what happened, most people in Germany never really understood what happened, and the articles you'll find online, on Wikipedia for example, are largely ideologic drivel. Really depressing. It's basically "and then, Germany reunified and lived happily ever after", as if it was a walk in the park. Reunification cost us roughly €2 trillion, with an additional €100 billion every year to this day. And the East is still not quite on par.

Just because it was expensive doesnt mean you guys implemented austerity measures. That is what I am interested in. German economic policy during that period.

Most countries in Europe are not quite as broke as the GDR was back in the day but yes, it would be really fucking expensive. We know that. That's why we don't want a transfer union. We already have one, and it's expensive as hell. But printing money is not a sensible solution. Printing bills just generates colorful paper, not actual money.

You arent doing much to refute the claim that Germans know nothing about economics

 

[East Lake]

Most countries in Europe are not quite as broke as the GDR was back in the day but yes, it would be really fucking expensive. We know that. That's why we don't want a transfer union. We already have one, and it's expensive as hell. But printing money is not a sensible solution. Printing bills just generates colorful paper, not actual money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOh7Ay1UFjE

 

[wsippel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOh7Ay1UFjE

I have no idea what you're trying to say. That video neither supports nor refutes anything I wrote.

 

[Coriolanus]

You know exactly what I mean. Money requires equivalent value. Money without equivalent value is colorful paper.

I don't, actually. Equivalent value to what?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOh7Ay1UFjE

That person's eyes and teeth scare the crap outta me.

 

[East Lake]

I have no idea what you're trying to say

Surprise, surprise!

 

[spindoctor]

How is it that last week Greece was like "Fuck you Germany, we reject your offer, we're voting no and a Grexit is the best option at this point anyway" and today it's "Fuck you Germany, you're giving us a bad offer and you're forcing us towards a Grexit".

The only thing common is Fuck you Germany.

Also if the Europeans don't have any faith in the Greek government, why are they discussing a 3 year bailout instead of a 1 year program? That way they would have to commit less money and they would be able to see first hand if reforms are actually taking shape in the country. So they wouldn't have to base their decisions on 'trust' or lack of when making their proposals.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Greece should use China's Remnibi for their currency, says economist David McWillians

Ireland used four different currencies in three decades! And all this time, what happened to American foreign investment? Did it fall as many people suggest in the face of currency instability? No, in fact precisely the opposite happened. American investment rose and rose.

[...]



The Chinese get a foothold into Europe. They invest billions into Greece, where they reassemble Chinese goods into Europe with no tariffs or hassle. They gradually move up the value curve, making ever more sophisticated goods in Greece – just as the Americans have done here.

They can even use the Greek tax system to reduce the taxes they have to pay, just like the Americans have done here. And, of course, it would be a massive diplomatic and geo-political coup for the Chinese.

Also, because the Greeks are allegedly Marxists and the Chinese are supposedly communist, they could brand this as a left of centre affair.

The Greeks would get a stable currency, lots of liquidity into their banking system and a currency backed by real economic logic. They would get industry and technology, so that the next generation of Greek kids could work in spotless hi-tech factories, exporting hi-tech consumer goods into Europe.

Oh yes, and lastly, who would lose most over a generation? Which European country has most to fear from its consumer goods being eviscerated by Chinese competition?

Why, Germany of course!

[...]



Everything I have said above is doable, legal and possible within Greece’s membership of the EU. After all, Sweden, the UK and Denmark don’t use the Euro and are in the EU, why not Greece?

 

[Negotiator]

They might as well use the US dollar and become the 51st state (sorry PR).

Siding with China doesn't seem like a good idea to me. China will probably try to enforce Chinese wages, Chinese working conditions, no strikes, no social safety net/public healthcare etc. upon Greece. Sounds like a nightmare.

If the Baltic states don't like Greek wages, then there's no way in hell the even poorer Chinese worker could stomach that...

 

[Acorn]

They might as well use the US dollar and become the 51st state (sorry PR).

Siding with China doesn't seem like a good idea to me. China will probably to enforce Chinese wages, Chinese working conditions, no strikes, no social safety net/public healthcare etc. upon Greece. Sounds like a nightmare.

So leave the eu because of loss of sovereignty and massive privatisations to join the US and lose sovereignty and privatise everything?

 

[Negotiator]

So leave the eu because of loss of sovereignty and massive privatisations to join the US and lose sovereignty and privatise everything?

I'm half-joking/half-serious about the 51st state hypothesis. It could only happen if the US is really desperate about controlling Greece from a geopolitical standpoint. They could tie the New Drachma with the USD at 1:1.

Either way, Greece has no cultural ties with the US, nor with China.

 

[Tallshortman]

Der Spiegal is calling out he measures are intentionally humiliating. Also word is Austria, Belgium, and Italy and supporting the greek position.

At this point I'm not sure if it's mostly Germany or the Scandinavians pushing the more ridiculous measures.

 

[TheExecutive]

Does the IMF usually opine on which heads of state should / shouldn't resign?

No. The IMF requesting heads of government to resign would be incredibly tactless AND telling. IMF has no business in requesting such things and if it did occur (however unlikely) it would set a precedence which, if followed, could be dangerous.

Edit: dangerous in the fact that interfering with the sovereignty of a country in such a way by the IMF would be reckless and an overstepping of the purpose of the institution.

 

[TheExecutive]

I'm half-joking/half-serious about the 51st state hypothesis. It could only happen if the US is really desperate about controlling Greece from a geopolitical standpoint. They could tie the New Drachma with the USD at 1:1.

Either way, Greece has no cultural ties with the US, nor with China.

It would never happen so just go 100% joking on this one.

 

[Aureon]

And I think you just don't know all that much about German history, and I don't feel like teaching history right now.

He that, when being called on explaining his claims, has no explanation to offer, is peddling bullshit.

 

[zou]

Just because it was expensive doesnt mean you guys implemented austerity measures. That is what I am interested in. German economic policy during that period.



You arent doing much to refute the claim that Germans know nothing about economics

they did austerity... by spending an additional 2 trillion euro. lol.

 

[luxarific]

And some dumb fucks in the US and elsewhere dare to claim we don't understand economics. Absolutely ridiculous...

Because Germany doesn't in this case. Austerity is not going to rescue Greece's economy - a fact which has been shown again and again and again. Yet still Germany insists on austerity. It's like they've never picked up a history book or even a newspaper.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Jesus do they not need sleep when doing these negotiations? They're still at it. Go to bed, it usually does the mind good.

 

[Acorn]

Jesus do they not need sleep when doing these negotiations? They're still at it. Go to bed, it usually does the mind good.

Red Bull brah, Austria brings a suitcase every meeting

 

[ModBot]

At this stage, you're all just running in circles, much like Europe. Post a new thread when there's new news.