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Halo |OT2| Hyper-Athletic Speed And Mass And Weight and Power

Retro

Member
Let's talk Fourge.

Select Skybox / Environment
Since it's all supposed to be a simulation, we should be able to change where the map is set. I want deep space, upper atmosphere, forests, deserts, beaches, underwater. All of the background stuff is built to be as gentle on the framerate as possible.

Easier Gametype/Spawn setup
I can't tell you how many times I've made a great map, gotten everything laid out perfectly, then lost interest in it completely because the process behind setting up gametypes and spawns is a god damned ordeal. I get the impression that even Bungie didn't know how to handle spawns in Forge, since the Cage exists.

Editable Textures/skins
All basic building blocks should have multiple textures to choose from, to get away from the gray-heavy forerunner pallet. Let us pick from flat (and then define the color via Object color), stone, brick, forerunner... whatever it takes so we can have some variety instead of a huge grey mess. This would go a long way towards maps with more distinguishable landmarks and more interesting visuals. We'll never be able to make a map on the same level as the built ins, but there's no reason we need to deal with Grey soup.

Terrain Deformation
Rather than a ForgeWorld with lots of terrain to pick from, just let us edit the terrain to our liking with rudimentary tools. If Farcry can do it, so can Halo. Gentle hills, steep canyon walls, narrow pathways, whatever. Tunnels and bridges can still be done via natural building blocks if that makes it easier.

Unlimited Pieces
Why can I only have 99 objects despite having a huge budget left? I can understand some of the larger pieces, vehicles, weapons, etc., but large chunks of rock? Large building blocks? Should be much higher piece counts or simply unlimited.

Object linking or Hierarchy
We need to be able to link multiple objects together for easier moving or editing. If I build a cool structure out of a couple dozen objects and then need to move everything a few feet left or up, I have to manually move each piece. We should be able to create groups and assign objects to them, or have some method of linking objects to each other (like touch-based, so any object that touches is considered 'linked').

Invisible Barriers
If you're gonna force jetpacks on us, give us a way to make maps without them having to be entirely enclosed. Kill barriers don't cut it. Terrain editing should let us take care of the horizontal movement, so give us something we can put overhead to keep people from cheesing our maps. Would also be nice for maps that we want to keep some parts open for (like beaches, but without letting people get way out in the water).

More Decor items
Players navigate maps via landmarks. Having colored orbs isn't gonna do the trick. We need things like trees, vines, waterfalls. Give us some big forerunner structures that serve no purpose other than to just sit there and let people orient themselves. And let us use more lights, preferably without crippling the framerate.

Shadows
Nothing in Forgeworld drops shadows. It makes that big grey mess even greyer and messier. Objects should drop shadows.

Definable liquids
Probably impossible (thus, why it's at the end here), but I would love it if we could have water, lava, mist or other liquid-like volumes. Have them adjustable like the shape of objectives (set the top, length, width, etc.). I'd love to have some underwater areas or a munitions factory with huge smelting pools.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
To add to Retro:

*Lesser Budget, More Flexibility -- You can't build $10k maps that are playable now, so make the budget actually make sense and loosen the object restrictions.

*Dynamic gametype swapping -- Treat it like modes in a computer program -- switch to CTF and CTF-specific items appear. You should be able to do it in-game without ending a session.

*More pieces -- like Retro said, things to orient players, along with skins or something less subtle to change up the colors for easier play recognition.

*Different palettes? -- Something like Forerunner, human, Covenant to give us a greater selection of visual styles? If they have to be loaded in different games, that's fine. Just let people choose which one.
 

Retro

Member
To add to Retro:

Heh, as soon as I was re-reading my post for errors, I realized I had missed a few things, some of which you touched on. I would love to have the ability to make different textures or skins for objects. Imagine making two bases, and one uses covenant textures and the other uses Human? Or make an urban map and have the buildings different textures so you can easily get your bearings?

Needs to happen.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Heh, as soon as I was re-reading my post for errors, I realized I had missed a few things, some of which you touched on. I would love to have the ability to make different textures or skins for objects. Imagine making two bases, and one uses covenant textures and the other uses Human? Or make an urban map and have the buildings different textures so you can easily get your bearings?

Needs to happen.

Yeah. There's a few different ways they could implement it, but the end result really needs to happen.

While it'd be great for the Forge to become an editor akin to Far Cry, I'm just hoping for dramatic usability fixes and flexibility in creating better, more interesting maps than we have now in less time.
 

Retro

Member
While it'd be great for the Forge to become an editor akin to Far Cry, I'm just hoping for dramatic usability fixes and flexibility in creating better, more interesting maps than we have now in less time.

Yep, and you reminded me, we need some way to link multiple objects together or have some kind of hierarchy. So I added that to the list too.

Because moving every individual piece takes too long and is stupid.

The best feature would be its removal.

Bah. It's in there and lots of people use it. Cutting it out also throws a wrench into MLG as they like to tweak maps for their own playlist.

Don't forget invisible barriers!

It's in there! I just figured we'd be able to edit the terrain to create walls and such, but yeah, invisible ceilings and barriers need to be in there, especially with all of the ways players can move around now.
 

Homeboyd

Member
Select Skybox / Environment
Since it's all supposed to be a simulation, we should be able to change where the map is set. I want deep space, upper atmosphere, forests, deserts, beaches, underwater. All of the background stuff is built to be as gentle on the framerate as possible.

Easier Gametype/Spawn setup
I can't tell you how many times I've made a great map, gotten everything laid out perfectly, then lost interest in it completely because the process behind setting up gametypes and spawns is a god damned ordeal. I get the impression that even Bungie didn't know how to handle spawns in Forge, since the Cage exists.

Editable Textures/skins
All basic building blocks should have multiple textures to choose from, to get away from the gray-heavy forerunner pallet. Let us pick from flat (and then define the color via Object color), stone, brick, forerunner... whatever it takes so we can have some variety instead of a huge grey mess. This would go a long way towards maps with more distinguishable landmarks and more interesting visuals. We'll never be able to make a map on the same level as the built ins, but there's no reason we need to deal with Grey soup.

Terrain Deformation
Rather than a ForgeWorld with lots of terrain to pick from, just let us edit the terrain to our liking with rudimentary tools. If Farcry can do it, so can Halo. Gentle hills, steep canyon walls, narrow pathways, whatever. Tunnels and bridges can still be done via natural building blocks if that makes it easier.

Unlimited Pieces
Why can I only have 99 objects despite having a huge budget left? I can understand some of the larger pieces, vehicles, weapons, etc., but large chunks of rock? Large building blocks? Should be much higher piece counts or simply unlimited.

Invisible Ceilings
If you're gonna force jetpacks on us, give us a way to make maps without them having to be entirely enclosed. Kill barriers don't cut it. Terrain editing should let us take care of the horizontal movement, so give us something we can put overhead to keep people from cheesing our maps.

More Decor items
Players navigate maps via landmarks. Having colored orbs isn't gonna do the trick. We need things like trees, vines, waterfalls. Give us some big forerunner structures that serve no purpose other than to just sit there and let people orient themselves. And let us use more lights, preferably without crippling the framerate.

Shadows
Nothing in Forgeworld drops shadows. It makes that big grey mess even greyer and messier. Objects should drop shadows.

Definable liquids
Probably impossible (thus, why it's at the end here), but I would love it if we could have water, lava, mist or other liquid-like volumes. Have them adjustable like the shape of objectives (set the top, length, width, etc.). I'd love to have some underwater areas or a munitions factory with huge smelting pools.
Wow. Pretty much all of this. Would love to expand but you covered everything I wanted to say.

The best feature would be its removal.
The best feature would be your removal.
 

feel

Member
The best feature would be its removal.
Nah, a lot of people are into map making at this point, it would be a shit move towards that part of the community to remove it. They just need to make it so people are not forced to play forge maps in normal playlists by having a Community maps playlist or two on the side.
 
Give me a terrain editor, and thousands (of the same) completely scale-able and rotatable box that I can change the color and texture of by simple color picking, and shadows. And I'll work fucking magic. That's all I need except for the necessities like objectives, spawns, zones, vehicles, and weapons.
 

Fracas

#fuckonami
If we're making a forge wishlist, throw in the option to remove all weapons/items/pickups from the map. Would save me a lot of time when I'm messing around with a built-in map.

On a semi-related note:That music's growing on me again. Very nice job with the OST so far, 343.
 
Don't forget invisible barriers!

Asphalt in Matchmaking actually uses the barriers at the top of Forge World by building the map that high up. You can 'see' where you could jetpack up to, but you can't reach them. Thought it was a cool workaround but yeah, you shouldn't have to rely on that either.
 

Retro

Member
Wow. Pretty much all of this. Would love to expand but you covered everything I wanted to say.

And I added in a few things I missed (Object linking, mostly).

I must confess that I easily spent 75-80% of my time in Reach in Forge, either editing their maps to make them better or making my own. I don't actually have a lot of decent ones to play on though, because setting up gametypes and spawns is implemented quite piss-poorly.

And the rest had framerate issues because Forgeworld is too big and everything is shiny.
 

Kuroyume

Banned
Forge should also allow you to make giant man cannons or grav lifts. If someone wants to make a gravlift like the one in Colossus they should be able to do so. The small ones that appeared in the past two games suck.
 
Don't get me wrong, I like forge as a map editor but not a creator. It reminds me of a giant Lego creator. I just would prefer them to create good maps than waste time on another forge world. Maybe reach has spoiled my attitude towards forge. Not to mention that I really don't like how most of these maps play out
 

Overdoziz

Banned
Asphalt in Matchmaking actually uses the barriers at the top of Forge World by building the map that high up. You can 'see' where you could jetpack up to, but you can't reach them. Thought it was a cool workaround but yeah, you shouldn't have to rely on that either.
The invisible barrier above Forge World isn't flat though for whatever reason. It slopes up towards the quarry side of FW.
 

Retro

Member
Forge should also allow you to make giant man cannons or grab lifts. If someone wants to make a gravlift like the one in Colossus they should be able to do so. The small ones that appeared in the past two games suck.

Yeah. I tried to make a Narrows-esque map and the Man-Cannon options were just too limited. I ended up having to use shield doors to 'soften' the landings and really tweak their angles to get people across the gap. Otherwise, the bridge section would have been insanely small.

If I could edit the 'power' of man-cannons, that would be fine. I wouldn't mind seeing volume-based areas with low gravity (for those outer space maps), gravity lifts, etc. Instead of having to glitch stuff like elevators and such.
 

Karl2177

Member
Yeah. I tried to make a Narrows-esque map and the Man-Cannon options were just too limited. I ended up having to use shield doors to 'soften' the landings and really tweak their angles to get people across the gap. Otherwise, the bridge section would have been insanely small.

If I could edit the 'power' of man-cannons, that would be fine. I wouldn't mind seeing volume-based areas with low gravity (for those outer space maps), gravity lifts, etc. Instead of having to glitch stuff like elevators and such.

That's more of an issue with fall damage than the man-cannons themselves.

Speaking of which, will there be fall damage for Halo 4?
 

Retro

Member
I'm sure they have a generic name for that too, like Spartan World Building, or Spartan Lincoln Logs

Combat Simulator. And you can add bots named Simulants.
JUWnj.gif


Retro, you pretty much just covered all the ideas I have for Forge 3.0. :)

I honestly doubt we'll get terrain deformation, but it's nice to dream.

I'm hoping we'll get it, but I'm doubtful too. It would make something like Valhalla or Higher Ground possible, which is something the Forge Community has always wanted; the tools to make classic maps instead of waiting for Bungie/343 to make them (assuming they remake them at all).

That's more of an issue with fall damage than the man-cannons themselves.

Kinda. In order to cover that much distance, I not only had to pitch the cannons so they'd throw you higher, but I had to elevate the man cannons too. Players ended up landing on a platform just below them. If I had been able to just increase the power rather than the height, it would have been less of a headache. I spent many many hours killing myself trying to get things just right. So yeah, it was all about the fall damage, but that wouldn't have been an issue if I hadn't had to increase the height at which the cannons launched you to clear the distance.

Edit: Here's my post for that map, download link is included; http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35111533&postcount=9247
 

Fracas

#fuckonami
starting to feel Halo again. not dropping neg bombs, going big pos sometimes too. feels good man.

I think we swapped Halo skill or something. I can't do shit in matchmaking, been going around even or worse a lot in the last couple days. Weird.
 

Karl2177

Member
Kinda. In order to cover that much distance, I not only had to pitch the cannons so they'd throw you higher, but I had to elevate the man cannons too. Players ended up landing on a platform just below them. If I had been able to just increase the power rather than the height, it would have been less of a headache. I spent many many hours killing myself trying to get things just right. So yeah, it was all about the fall damage, but that wouldn't have been an issue if I hadn't had to increase the height at which the cannons launched you to clear the distance.

Edit: Here's my post for that map, download link is included; http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35111533&postcount=9247

I wish I could still download it from that link. I'll look it up on your file share in about 10 min or so.

Also, I know Homeboyd's spread the word here, but I'll do it too. If you are interested in having your map looked at by a Cartographer as well as other players, check out Blueprint. It's a great group where I get the opportunity to ban you check out your maps and stuff
 

Fracas

#fuckonami
Can I swap Halo skill with someone competent?

My rules to Halo Multiplayer:

1. Let the scrubs come to you. If they're gonna try to spam you in an orgy of AR fire, let them come over to you and your DMR.

2. Shotgun beats sword.

3. When in doubt, Jetpack the fuck out of everyone.

4. If you're using the DMR at long range, crouch. As Fyrewulf said, there's seriously not any bloom on the DMR and Nerfle when you crouch.

5. Don't ever play on The Cage.

6. If you're ever feeling like you just can't kill anything, go play Multi Team. Spawn, throw grenades/empty AR= go 40-8 every single match.

Although I wouldn't necessarily trust my rules at the moment, as I've been doing pretty rough lately.


edit: I should add, in all seriousness, learn to strafe. Instantly doubles your chances of out-DMRing someone. I'd ask Tashi about that, as I'm new to it and not too good with it yet. Also, from what I saw awhile ago, Tashi is damn near unhittable at times, lol.
 

Retro

Member
I wish I could still download it from that link. I'll look it up on your file share in about 10 min or so.

Also, I know Homeboyd's spread the word here, but I'll do it too. If you are interested in having your map looked at by a Cartographer as well as other players, check out Blueprint. It's a great group where I get the opportunity to ban you check out your maps and stuff

Good to know. I hate dealing with spawning and gametype issues, so most of my maps are just fun little experiments and we'd occasionally have fun testing them on ForgeGAF meetups. I think I suckered regular HaloGAF into trying my Beach map (also on my file share) and despite some slowdown issues (which I softened by removing some glass) it seemed like everyone had fun.

Picts here; http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=32173372&postcount=2709. That last screenshot, you can really see why Forge Objects need to drop shadows. Bleh.

If I make a map worth putting the time getting game/spawns set up for before Halo 4 comes out... well... hell will have frozen over, so nevermind. But if Forge in 4 is decent, sure. I'd be all over that, I have a ton of concepts that Reach just didn't let me make.
 
My rules to Halo Multiplayer:

1. Let the scrubs come to you. If they're gonna try to spam you in an orgy of AR fire, let them come over to you and your DMR.

2. Shotgun beats sword.

3. When in doubt, Jetpack the fuck out of everyone.

4. If you're using the DMR at long range, crouch. As Fyrewulf said, there's seriously not any bloom on the DMR and Nerfle when you crouch.

5. Don't ever play on The Cage.

6. If you're ever feeling like you just can't kill anything, go play Multi Team. Spawn, throw grenades/empty AR= go 40-8 every single match.

Although I wouldn't necessarily trust my rules at the moment, as I've been doing pretty rough lately.

camp/time rocket spawns and get 2-4 easy kills. my record, 18 rocket kills in one team slayer game on powerhouse
 

zap

Member
seriously what crack do they put into it, watching "Carnage Carnival" right now and I want to play vanilla Reach and I dislike it..

One thing that stood out to me from rewatching that is that Sage was talking about "You're making a single selection that includes your armour ability and your weapon. We sort of pair those intentionally..."

That only happened in Elite Slayer and Invasion... the two worst gametypes in Reach :lol

Also...

"It breeds this smarter combat." *PERSON ARMOUR LOCKS*

smh
 
My rules to Halo Multiplayer:

1. Let the scrubs come to you. If they're gonna try to spam you in an orgy of AR fire, let them come over to you and your DMR.

2. Shotgun beats sword.

3. When in doubt, Jetpack the fuck out of everyone.

4. If you're using the DMR at long range, crouch. As Fyrewulf said, there's seriously not any bloom on the DMR and Nerfle when you crouch.

5. Don't ever play on The Cage.

6. If you're ever feeling like you just can't kill anything, go play Multi Team. Spawn, throw grenades/empty AR= go 40-8 every single match.

7. Be a dick and steal all of Franklinator's kills.

Although I wouldn't necessarily trust my rules at the moment, as I've been doing pretty rough lately.

fixed it for you
 

Homeboyd

Member
And I added in a few things I missed (Object linking, mostly).

I must confess that I easily spent 75-80% of my time in Reach in Forge, either editing their maps to make them better or making my own. I don't actually have a lot of decent ones to play on though, because setting up gametypes and spawns is implemented quite piss-poorly.

And the rest had framerate issues because Forgeworld is too big and everything is shiny.
The only thing left to add is the tools; undo, redo, group copy/paste, etc..

Don't get me wrong, I like forge as a map editor but not a creator. It reminds me of a giant Lego creator. I just would prefer them to create good maps than waste time on another forge world. Maybe reach has spoiled my attitude towards forge. Not to mention that I really don't like how most of these maps play out
No one is suggesting another Forge World. I certainly don't want another Forge World... I'd rather have several flat, blank canvases than one huge map pieced together.

I just don't understand the "get rid of it" comments just because you don't personally use/enjoy it. Like neo said, it needs to be removed from situations where it's forced on players in Matchmaking settings and be separated. Everyone knows and understands this.. Reach's current Forge has put a lot of people off and they're just tired of the grey maps everywhere where at first people were more willing to try them out.

I just don't think you would expect someone who hated Halo campaigns and only played multiplayer to say "well yeah, I wish they would cut campaign and just add 30 more multiplayer maps. Resources better spent imo." There's huge communities who are devoted to Forge and who enjoy parts of it you may have never experienced. No reason to just cut them out because you personally won't enjoy its next iteration.
 

Retro

Member
The only thing left to add is the tools; undo, redo, group copy/paste, etc.

Yep, definitely need those. Tuck them all into a radial menu you can access with a single button press. Undo alone would save me a lot of time, but being able to group objects together and move them as one? Cuts my time in half, easily.
 

FL1Psyde

Neo Member
Halogaf Release Date Contest
kylej - September 4th
neoism - September 17th
Dug - September 18th
Plywood - September 24th
CyReN, Asklon & mastrbiggy - September 25th
Franklinator- October 2nd
Kittens - November 6
monsterfracas - October 9th
Homeboyd - October 16th
ViewtifulJC,blamite & EdibleExplosives - October 23rd
FateBreaker - November 2nd
WJD & Letters - November 6th
Steelyuhas - November 13th
Biggest-Geek-Ever & GhaleonEB - November 20th
-Yeti - December 4th
Hypertrooper - Holiday 2012

Oct 30th
 
Yep, definitely need those. Tuck them all into a radial menu you can access with a single button press. Undo alone would save me a lot of time, but being able to group objects together and move them as one? Cuts my time in half, easily.

Not enough kilobytes.
 
The only thing left to add is the tools; undo, redo, group copy/paste, etc..


No one is suggesting another Forge World. I certainly don't want another Forge World... I'd rather have several flat, blank canvases than one huge map pieced together.

I just don't understand the "get rid of it" comments just because you don't personally use/enjoy it. Like neo said, it needs to be removed from situations where it's forced on players in Matchmaking settings and be separated. Everyone knows and understands this.. Reach's current Forge has put a lot of people off and they're just tired of the grey maps everywhere where at first people were more willing to try them out.

I just don't think you would expect someone who hated Halo campaigns and only played multiplayer to say "well yeah, I wish they would cut campaign and just add 30 more multiplayer maps. Resources better spent imo." There's huge communities who are devoted to Forge and who enjoy parts of it you may have never experienced. No reason to just cut them out because you personally won't enjoy its next iteration.

i guess its just how forge world turned out and how it is being applied to matchmaking (in reach) that has me soured on forge 3.0
 
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