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[old manatee]

I won't touch Activision multiplayer games anymore. Call of Duty Advanced Warfare was the last one I really tried to get into.

-The game cost like $100 with season pass.

-When the first round of season pass content came out it split the community up until basically only death match mode was reliably filled, so the season pass functionally shrunk the amount of content instead of increasing it.

-It had loot boxes that just straight up had better weapons in them.

-Matchmaking was always messed up, and the game was plagued with lag.

-They never bothered to fix even the most glaring and broken technical issues, such as the stupid bugged laser that could instakill people.

I don't for a second believe them when they say they haven't already used this matchmaking algorithm. I wouldn't put anything past Activision after playing Advanced Warfare. I wouldn't be surprised if Activision was the first person Ted Kennedy called after driving his car off that bridge in Chappaquiddick.

 

[Jacqli]

Devil's advocate - people are totally misreading this. It is putting people ON YOUR TEAM. So, if your profile shows you have an interest in sniper weapons, it pairs you with some dudes with sick sniper items.It's not a matter of "no items, get rekt". Doesn't seem quite as scummy, just trying to get you to buy stuff through envy. Which I guess is still a bit scummy, lol.

I am going to show interest in every weapon so I get carried all the time. GG Easy.

 

[Dryk]

I am going to show interest in every weapon so I get carried all the time. GG Easy.

When the system realises that you don't respond to this approach (because you're not actually buying things) it will stop and try one you're more amenable to.

 

[Jacqli]

When the system realises that you don't respond to this approach (because you're not actually buying things) it will stop and try one you're more amenable to.

Don't ruin my dreams of being as pro as my favourite Twitch™ streamers.

 

[ghostjoke]

Devil's advocate - people are totally misreading this. It is putting people ON YOUR TEAM. So, if your profile shows you have an interest in sniper weapons, it pairs you with some dudes with sick sniper items.It's not a matter of "no items, get rekt". Doesn't seem quite as scummy, just trying to get you to buy stuff through envy. Which I guess is still a bit scummy, lol.

I know you're playing Devil's advocate, but that doesn't really make it any better. They're still trying to instil the idea that skill can be bought. Getting "rekt'd" by someone on an opposing team carries the risk of a rage quit. Longingly eyeballing your team saviour's weapon of choice is a calculated moved. People spend ungodly amounts of time analysing pro players in MOBA's builds with the idea of emulating them. Same reason in physical sports people get into routines/diets that they here their idols do, so it's not exactly new, I guess, but Activision building an automated systems to monitor/generate such behaviour does seem like a new low in this particular part of the AAA industry. *waits for news story where higher ups in Activision who moonlight as lobbyists ensure no restrictions are ever put on such systems*

 

[Retro]

Heh, everyone complaining about how gross this is, they’re not even keeping up with the Chinese in the scummy business practices department. This interview is 8 years old; https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/116832/VGS_09_Game_Designers__Everything_You_Know_Is_Wrong.php

Ye sees fairness as just another tool in the toolbox rather than as a core concept. "But in the free-to-play world, especially in China, a lot of game designers believe fairness is not a goal, just a means -- the goal is to create a highly dynamic environment and community where a lot of conflict and drama can happen; if it helps to create conflict, fairness and unfairness can be used as tools to create those conflicts and add tension to the game world."

. . .

"Conflicts make the game world more energetic and more lively," says Ye, but "more importantly they trigger emotions, and when people are more emotionally unstable, they'll make purchases."

. . .

"Good monetization design is based on a deep understanding of human psychology. The best game designers in Chinese people all understand what Chinese people want, what they think; their weaknesses, actually. Good free-to-play game designers are exploiting people's weaknesses in the game."

. . .

"It's very easy to play with peer pressure," because of the volume of users in an MMO. One of the most popular items that Ye knows of is one that lets you respawn with your party when you die instead of returning to town. "Most people will say, 'I'll just pay', so they don't let their friends down." That's convenience and peer pressure rolled into one.

Devil's advocate - people are totally misreading this. It is putting people ON YOUR TEAM. So, if your profile shows you have an interest in sniper weapons, it pairs you with some dudes with sick sniper items.It's not a matter of "no items, get rekt". Doesn't seem quite as scummy, just trying to get you to buy stuff through envy. Which I guess is still a bit scummy, lol.

Heh, this quote is relevant here:

Ye discussed a game where to attract rich users who could afford to buy powerful items, poor players were paid by the company to stick around. "Rich people were just killing poor people all the same time -- but you just have to solve that problem." This created a "welfare state" in the game, and tarnished both the game's and the company's image.

A better solution, Ye said, in all seriousness, was a game that allowed users with a lot of resources to form clans and attract followers, gifting them with items. "If you think about who these people were in the real world, they were business owners, used to managing hundreds of people." Rather than letting rich users mow down poor users, "We let rich people fight with rich people with the help of poor people."

 

[Vic_Viper]

The biggest offender in the whole Matchmaking to sell microtransactions I can think of are games that have XP doublers that stack with how many teammates are using them. Best example I can think of is from the latest Rainbow Six.

 

[Pie and Beans]

This is infinitely more scummy and dark than whatever EA is up to right now, but this won't get close to the same coverage because its too confusing. So Acti must be cackling into their refibrillators right now.

 

[levyjl1988]

Isn't this a case of purchasing power. Man the video game industry is truly bastardizing the form, exploiting it.
Remember when games were a product, now they are a service. And when it becomes a service they try to emphasize its worth by showing a sense of addictiveness.

I remember when dlc was large expansions, then the content gotten smaller and we were faced with horse armor that people petioned against. This mutated to something even worse. We got loot boxes. Gone are the cheats, you pay for them now. Gone are the worthy unlocks, you pay for them now. And in addition to the $60 game you bought, it will be another $300 or so in small transactions with little effort in additional content. Just exploitive grindy tactics to get you all levelled up to take on the next mission.

Sigh, if this is the next step for further mictrotransaction lootbox crap ahead of us. I wonder what's next that will be even worse. They already killed full on expansions. We don't even get a single player gta v experience anymore. It's very rare do we get something like CD Projekt Red does with Witcher 3 with free dlc and huge expansions. That shows dedication, and a solid ambition to the craft and genre of video games.

The arcade was $0.25 to play, then we got home consoles, in a way it killed the arcades. Arcades were replaced with pachinko machines. Pachink machines are making their way into home consoles. They are already present in mobile games. Sigh.

 

[old manatee]

There should be a multiplayer game where it's free2play, but if you don't spend a dollar a player who did spend a dollar gets to ride on your back for a round

 

[Robottiimu2000]

Nice.
I really like how my favorite hobby is developing to a cashcow gambling service. Where my job is to gief moneyz to fill the void of my self esteem... "It's not really good until it's corporate good!"

 

[Smellycat]

I don't see the issue here. No one is forcing you to purchase these items. Publishers want to make money. SHOCKED

 

[Anarion07]

Activision didn't merely file the patent, they were granted it, as it says in the very first line of the story.

A granted patent does not neccessarily mean they use it. A patent is neither a right to use or an obligation to use.

Article title is misleading as it makes it sound like Activision already does this. It should be more like “How Activision Plans to use Matchmaking Tricks...”

Activision might have been doing this for years. Since nobody knows their algorithms, they can use it for decades before filing a patent, if they want.

 

[recursive]

I'm more amazed than you can actually get a patent for this.

You can get a patent for just about anything.

 

[Anarion07]

I'm more amazed than you can actually get a patent for this.

As long as it's novel, involves an inventive step exceeding the normal innovation curve and has technical applicability you can try to patent it. Just costs a bunch and you will have lots of costs in case of oppositions

 

[Syf]

I don't see the issue here. No one is forcing you to purchase these items. Publishers want to make money. SHOCKED

For me the issue is it sounds like they'd compromise matchmaking to tempt more sales. For sure, companies exist to make money and people are naive to think other gaming companies aren't looking at the psychology of this stuff, but intentionally matching vets with noobs is asking for a bad experience.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

If it isn't regulated in actual advertising, in real life, don't bet on it happening to kideo games.

Muuuuch bigger fish to fry irl. And I'm not saying this because WHAT ABOUT ADVERTISING ON TV or whatnot, I'm saying we have seen what's happened with advertising in media, and how nothing will be done, so don't expect it.

 

[NeonBlack]

I don't see the issue here. No one is forcing you to purchase these items. Publishers want to make money. SHOCKED

This could make online just a pay to win party.

 

[BadManEd]

If I were matched with a much better player who was using highly effective weapons bought through microtransactions, my reaction wouldn't be to also buy those weapons.

Instead, I'd quit playing the game for its piss-poor matchmaking.

My thoughts exactly

 

[DAROCK2300]

Is there any evidence that is is actually happening? It sounds horrible for sure, but companies files tons of patents they never use all the time.

Thread title makes it sound like this is happening already.

Or that it's coming.

 

[Defuser]

Imagine if EA got hold of this instead on Activision.

 

[tebunker]

If it isn't regulated in actual advertising, in real life, don't bet on it happening to kideo games.

Muuuuch bigger fish to fry irl. And I'm not saying this because WHAT ABOUT ADVERTISING ON TV or whatnot, I'm saying we have seen what's happened with advertising in media, and how nothing will be done, so don't expect it.

This is really a good point. We have been conditioned to be okay with slimy practices in advertising and marketing as being okay. Americans have no truth in advertising laws and companies have been trying to break down those regulations elsewhere.

We should applaud or be happy with companies developing and using more predatory practices to sell shit. In fact we should push against it.

When people say, well you have a choice to do xyz, you are missing the fact that companies are working to circumvent that choice because using tactics to subvert and alter the way you make decisions. So the illusion of choice exists but you do not control all of your brain. There are 1000s of things affecting your thoughts and decisions in your subconscious and this is what this kind of marketing is trying to attack.

This isn't new in advertising. They are using more and more psychological means to make you feel like you are making that choice on your own. When in fact they have spent money and time bombarding you with messaging in hopes of altering the way you think without you realizing it. This isn't tinfoil hat shit, this is Science used in Advertising.

And while it is fascinating it is also scummy.

 

[paperspace]

⁣

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Honestly, these trucks are nothing new. There are other tricks that we know exist but there's no direct confirmation.

One that really bugs me is when games give you these items for characters that you barely play as, as a way of you either picking that character or getting that feeling of "almost there". Like I'll unlock items for all but the few characters that I main as, and it's quite frustrating that these systems are in place to keep you longing for more.

 

[ithorien]

Surprise, surprise, Activision proves it's as big of a scumbag publisher as we all already thought. Unreal.

I don't see the issue here. No one is forcing you to purchase these items. Publishers want to make money. SHOCKED

I mean yea, sure, let's all sit idly by until this becomes standard everywhere and you can't escape it. You're right. That's definitely the best way to go.

 

[sjay1994]

Lol thats predatory as fuck.

But I haven't noticed it in the only Activision games I play (being Destiny and OW), because

1) OW is all cosmetic
2) Destiny 2 PVP is garbage, and throwing money at it ain't going to make it better

It's probably super prevalent in COD, since the last one I played was AW and those games are now filled with MT's and loot boxes giving better weapons.

 

[Skii]

If I were matched with a much better player who was using highly effective weapons bought through microtransactions, my reaction wouldn't be to also buy those weapons.

Instead, I'd quit playing the game for its piss-poor matchmaking.

It doesn't matter at that point. They've got your $60 and that was all you was ever going to spend. There are people they can exploit by creating conditions that feel unfair until they pay to make it feel fair. It's about maximising the amount of money they can take from them.

 

[Kayant]

Pretendstobeshocked.gif

From the company that still does map packs and have in-game MT that are not only tied to cosmetics (iirc for COD). Has the audacity to be the only one to charge for additional content in a remaster(correct me if am wrong) unsurprisingly map packs again. As well as add MT to said remaster... yh

 

[ResoRai]

Pretty shameful.

I don't see the issue here. No one is forcing you to purchase these items. Publishers want to make money. SHOCKED

Purposefully matching a player against more skillful players to entice them into buying MT's? You don't see a problem with that?

 

[Raylan Targaryen]

I feel like Valve does this as well. Anytime I play CS everyone has covert skins gloves, and knives. I know damn well most people don’t have skins. I’m the only one running around with default items

 

[Kayant]

I don't see the issue here. No one is forcing you to purchase these items. Publishers want to make money. SHOCKED

If this was all about cosmetics sure but it isn't.

I feel like Valve does this as well. Anytime I play CS everyone has covert skins gloves, and knives. I know damn well most people don’t have skins. I’m the only one running around with default items

Good thing skins can give you an unfair advantage. Oh wait...

 

[Azusa]

All PvP games with microtransactions are p2w. In games where you can buy only skins you still win when you buy the hottest skin now instead of grinding it for years. It doesn't matter if its lootboxes or direct purchase. Both are bad and unhealthy in PvP games.

If the game has online pvp component players will more likely to buy skins to show off in matches than in online single player/pve game. All game companies are using all data available to sell useless stuff in games. And it could means matchmaking tricks mentioned in this thread or other changes in game to encourage purchases.

Most mobile f2p games wont hide that they are trying to sell useless stuff like timer speedups/resources/items/etc but in big games like CoD, CS, DOTA2, OW, Destiny2 or PUBD its hard to tell if developers are changing something in game to make users buy more skins or other items or not.

 

[Raylan Targaryen]

This is was all about cosmetics sure but it isn't.

Good thing skins can give you an unfair advantage. Oh wait...

Good thing the OP is about using matchmaking tactics to promote micro transactions and has nothing to do specifically with gameplay advantages.

Reading is hard it’s okay

Just in case you’re still confused, obviously in a game like CS pay to win isn’t possible as you don’t buy new weapons. You can still try to tempt people by matching them up with people that have all the cool skins so they feel left out and want to purchase them and take their chances on a weapons case.

"For example, in one implementation, the system may include a microtransaction engine that arranges matches to influence game-related purchases," according to the patent. "For instance, the microtransaction engine may match a more expert/marquee player with a junior player to encourage the junior player to make game-related purchases of items possessed/used by the marquee player. A junior player may wish to emulate the marquee player by obtaining weapons or other items used by the marquee player."

The key phrase. Again, I get reading is hard but maybe next time take 5 seconds to think what you’re about to post so you don’t look like a fucking idiot

 

[Audioboxer]

https://twitter.com/JimSterling/status/920436197012443136



Oh boy.

Here is a video on the patent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSpP3Ge-dq0 (by Jim Sterling)

 

[rrs]

Is this how Splatoon 2 does matchmaking? Can't wait for games in the future to do it on purpose because money

 

[Kayant]

Good thing the OP is about using matchmaking tactics to promote micro transactions and has nothing to do specifically with gameplay advantages.

Reading is hard it’s okay

Just in case you’re still confused, obviously in a game like CS pay to win isn’t possible as you don’t buy new weapons. You can still try to tempt people by matching them up with people that have all the cool skins so they feel left out and want to purchase them and take their chances on a weapons case.




The key phrase. Again, I get reading is hard but maybe next time take 5 seconds to think what you’re about to post so you don’t look like a fucking idiot

Well that escalated quickly.

From the first post -

. A junior player may wish to emulate the marquee player by obtaining weapons or other items used by the marquee player."

"In a particular example, the junior player may wish to become an expert sniper in a game (e.g., as determined from the player profile)," according to the patent. "The microtransaction engine may match the junior player with a player that is a highly skilled sniper in the game. In this manner, the junior player may be encouraged to make game-related purchases such as a rifle or other item used by the marquee player. "

Edit -

Plus more -

"For example, if the player purchased a particular weapon, the microtransaction engine may match the player in a gameplay session in which the particular weapon is highly effective, giving the player an impression that the particular weapon was a good purchase. This may encourage the player to make future purchases to achieve similar gameplay results."

Indeed reading is hard and apparently makes you attack people /s.

 

[Kaako]

Fuck yo cosmetics. This is straight up garbage and fully expected from most of these big greedy publishers.

 

[m00h]

I don't see the issue here. No one is forcing you to purchase these items. Publishers want to make money. SHOCKED

You don't see the issue with the matches being matched by ingame purchases, matching lovver skilled player with higher skilled players on purpose, so the actual match is balanced into an unfair game on purpose?

 

[shimon]

Here is a video on the patent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSpP3Ge-dq0 (by Jim Sterling)

Thx,good video on a pretty disgusting idea.

That shot at DSP lmao @ 7:30

 

[Tahnit]

Ya know I miss the days of games being designed to be fun. Not trying to get more money out of you.

I play less and less AAA Games now because of this. There is one company tho that continually gets my money.

Nintendo. Because they still care about making games fun and not exploitive. Amiibo can be argued is kinda like the microtransactions but you don’t have to buy them and if you do you get a nice well designed figure for your shelf.

I’m playing more and more games on switch lately and I’ve never been happier.

 

[Duchess O'Death]

I'm not fully against microtransactions but this is really disgusting!

 

[Tahnit]

Bright engrams in destiny 2 can definitely drop gear like weapons and armor. I wouldn't call the the best, I wouldn't call them worst. I haven't seen too many using them either though.

Destiny's mts are more cosmetic than anything right now. Much like Overwatch.

They drop at 10 power level. They are designed for appearance. You feed other items into it to get it to usable status. The rest is just cosmetic. And I get a few bright engrams a day. It’s not an issue.

Battlefront 2 is way worse tho.

 

[JohnTinker]

MCDONALDS!!!

This got me good

 

[Audioboxer]

Thx,good video on a pretty disgusting idea.

That shot at DSP lmao @ 7:30

Who is DSP? A developer?

 

[katsais]

What fuck? This shit is scummy as fuck. I get that it’s a business, but there are times where companies cross the line, and this is one of them.

Articles states that Activision has not implemented this system yet, but frankly, Overwatch matchmaking feels off, at least on console. It takes a long time to mm at times, the team balancing makes is sketchy (specifically for Quickplay).

Edit:

A granted patent does not neccessarily mean they use it. A patent is neither a right to use or an obligation to use.

Activision might have been doing this for years. Since nobody knows their algorithms, they can use it for decades before filing a patent, if they want.

This reaffirms my suspicions. I’ll bet money that Activision uses this method or a similar algorithm in Overwatch.

 

[Hjod]

They're just being protective of your time.

 

[shimon]

Who is DSP? A developer?

You don't want to know unless you like watching trainwreck youtubers...

 

[mrklaw]

So it never was Skill-Based matchmaking (SBMM) that replaced Connection-Based matchmaking (CBMM). It was Microtransation-Base matchmaking (MBMM) this whole time!

Seriously, though, don't tell me this doesn't fuck with queue times.

Skill and Connection Unprioritised vs Microtransaction Matchmaking

 

[Ahasverus]

Ya know I miss the days of games being designed to be fun. Not trying to get more money out of you.

To be fair, Activision was the first company that pnely said they wanted to take fun out of videogames, literally.

God, they succeded.

 

[ithorien]

To be fair, Activision was the first company that pnely said they wanted to take fun out of videogames, literally.

God, they succeded.

I mean we've all known that Kotick is a huge piece of shit and literal cancer to the industry. I guess par for the course?