Support NeoGAF

[linkboy]

The handheld ones are hardly what I would call "3D." Yes, they do use 3D graphics, but the gameplay itself is no more 3D than its 2D predecessors (with few exceptions, like the train).

That's not to say the gameplay isn't different, but it's not due to the graphics.

I want a Zelda to look like this

not like this

I want sprites, not polygons.

 

[redbarchetta]

I want a Zelda to look like this

not like this

I want sprites, not polygons.

Fine, but that's not what you conveyed when you said "Here's the thing, both the console and handheld Zelda's have gone 3d. I don't want the classic gameplay to die, that's the whole point I'm trying to make."

My point was that, if the "classic gameplay" is dying, it's not the fault of the graphics, which you seem to have ascribed it to.

 

[Eccocid]

Gah me and Zelda games can never get along well...
I like the world maps and finding new stuff in it so many details to discover
but dungeons...
especially in 3d Zeldas dungeons are just one big HASSLE!
You see a door and you can spot the puzzle to open the door in 5 minutes but you have to run to several places, activate switches and etc etc just to open god damn door. I always felt puzzles are so easy but they just require too much time and backtracking.

Confession: I had never finished a Zelda game. I always got bored in the middle of the game after those lifeless&dull dungeons.

 

[Red Scarlet]

Yeah, those last two palaces will see to that!

I hope someone out there pulls a 3d Dot Game Heroes of sorts on Zelda II.

I think I always wind up killing myself on level 4 and 6 at least once to get more magic; I think I'm alright on level 7..unless I really need magic and go for those elevator room ones and get unlucky with birdguys instead.

 

[Garl_Vinland]

I want more of this:

mixed with this:

 

[cartman414]

I want more of this:

mixed with this:

I'd be fine with more of the first image myself. Never got that second game to develop/smooth out/etc. those concepts.

 

[Raist]

When did you guys start playing video games? I remember my parents holding me up to the Pac-Man machine at the arcade and playing like that...

:I

I think I was about 4 or 5.

 

[Requeim]

question zelda fans: I am about to buy a wii and i am going to buy both twilight princess and wind waker. I have never played a zelda game before.

Which one do you think i should play first?

 

[hipgnosis]

question zelda fans: I am about to buy a wii and i am going to buy both twilight princess and wind waker. I have never played a zelda game before.

Which one do you think i should play first?

Wind Waker definitely. It looks and plays better than TP. Also the overworld is miles better than the empty one in TP.

 

[_Alkaline_]

Wind Waker definitely. It looks and plays better than TP. Also the overworld is miles better than the empty one in TP.

:lol

 

[hipgnosis]

:lol

Well the yeah the sailing was pretty slow, but I think there was a lot more to do in WW than TP. There were more secrets to be found and a lot of cool places to visit. Also the sea looked amazing and it still does. The music playing on the background and the sound of seagulls and all that stuff was also great. I just like it a lot more.

 

[geinou]

I really freaked out while I had to fight Shadow Link. For me, beeing a kid, it was just mind-blowing. I mean... Shadow Link. Damn! I was so freaked out, after the fight, I called my friend, told him what I just did -- his reaction: "Dude, you call me during dinner to tell me a story that you fought Shadow Link?" He didn't "get" it, I suppose...

 

[darkwings]

Last night I decided to play the original Zelda for the first time. I had never done it! It was an interesting experience.

I started playing and wandered around for about 10 minutes. It struck me how open the game actually was. Since I bought it on Virtual Console and did not get the original box and manual, the game's introduction was pretty perplexing. You just get dropped into this pretty big world and you get to wander around. So I wandered around! I thought this was pretty challenging, as I was struggling to find some rupees to buy bombs and stay alive. Heart drops are not nearly as common as they are in Zelda nowadays...

After that, I got pretty frustrated just wandering around, so I pulled up a map. I followed that pretty closely and managed to get my heart containers to about five, and I got a better sword, a better shield, and lots of money. This made the game much more enjoyable. Bombing and burning random spots on the map was pretty weird-- I understand that they were going for discovery, but sometimes I felt like things were pushed a little too far in that direction (burn the fifth bush of the third row, etc).

I went to the first dungeon. The first Zelda I have played was Zelda 3, so I expected the dungeons to be pretty similar. I guess they aren't so much! Before I got bored, I managed to complete the first four dungeons. They're not really very puzzle oriented. You can generally walk around and whack things and get through the dungeons. Cool dungeon music. Got a bunch of the familiar Zelda items, like a boomerang, a bow, and...a raft? That was new.

Overall, fun experience, but I ended up getting a little bored. Seemed like the game could be completed in a few hours if you knew where you were going. I think it might be pretty frustrating without a guide telling you to bomb random things and throw whatever into various fountains.

what did you expect? The game was released in 1986. A couple of hours game were pretty unheard of at that time.

 

[Red Scarlet]

So did you beat the game, Kev?

what did you expect? The game was released in 1986. A couple of hours game were pretty unheard of at that time.

? there were lots of long games on PC's by then. Ultima 4 came out in 1986, and stuff like Wizardry was already out too. DQ1 was out, too.

 

[_Alkaline_]

Well the yeah the sailing was pretty slow, but I think there was a lot more to do in WW than TP. There were more secrets to be found and a lot of cool places to visit. Also the sea looked amazing and it still does. The music playing on the background and the sound of seagulls and all that stuff was also great. I just like it a lot more.

WW excelled its exploration and sense of adventure, but the overworld was very, very empty. Less due to what was actually in it (since there were actually quite large number of islands and secrets) and more as a result of its sheer size. Nintendo went completely overboard and thus made sailing a considerable hassle after the initial excitement of it wears off.

TP's, whilst more synthetic, was better designed. It also conatins a rather large amount of secrets as well - those who claim it to be empty either refuse to acknowledge the presence of its many holes and caves, or never searched for them in the first place.

Not to say that TP's overworld couldn't have been better - I think the overworld was actually one of its more disappointing aspects, though in a way that demonstrates the sheer quality of the game.

 

[beelzebozo]

Wind Waker definitely. It looks and plays better than TP. Also the overworld is miles better than the empty one in TP.

i agree that the ocean overworld is much more interesting, and actually compels you to look in every corner, even if the rewards for doing so can sometimes be perfunctory.

 

[Dr. Muganda]

Whoever thinks the WW overworld was interesting is fucking crazy.
There was nothing to do, no interesting stuff to find and changing wind-direction was a fucking chore - every single time.
The WW overworld would have had potential if it had hidden pirate coves and towns, islands full of cannibals. The overworld was fucking desolate. There was no life except tingle and the great fairy. The potential was huge, swamps full of voodoo magic and crazy zombie pirates, anything - there is so much you can do with a pirate-theme.
Just talking about it annoys me to no ends. tl;dr Even that fucking barren overworld of TP is superior to WW.

 

[Requeim]

guess i'll start with wind waker then

 

[KanZolo]

I've tried getting into the NES Zelda games, but they are primitive to a fault. I couldn't get into them. They haven't aged as good as Super Mario Bros. or Final Fantasy.

Shame, shame.

It's funny how resistant some people are to the idea of being plopped in a world with no signs about what to do, considering that every game is bloated with tutorial content for the first half of the game nowadays. I wish some games would do this nowadays.

I think ICO did a wonderful job of this. I also would love more games that did this. I think it's the most rewarding/most fun in video games.

Would the Wii owners buy this game, if nintendo remade the whole game in 3D? I dont think so, but I would.

Hopefully PS3 owners will with 3D Dot Game Heroes.

 

[KevinCow]

i agree that the ocean overworld is much more interesting, and actually compels you to look in every corner, even if the rewards for doing so can sometimes be perfunctory.

What? No it doesn't. You don't need to look for stuff, because there is exactly one thing to do on 90% of the squares, and it's always on the one piece of land sticking out of the otherwise flat blue carpet.

"Hey, there's a giant shell on this island. And there seems to be a rock that I can bomb blocking its entrance. Perhaps I shall do that. Oh my, what do you know, there is a great fairy in here that upgrades something."

That sure took a lot of exploring!


Twilight Princess gets a lot of flack for its overly large and mostly empty overworld - an admittedly well deserved complaint - but it doesn't get nearly enough praise for how the secrets that are there are extremely well hidden. They actually require you to look around and pay attention to your surroundings. I'd often run through an area several times before I noticed something.

 

[electroshockwave]

I've recently been playing some old games on virtualnes.com and the original Zelda was among them. I got up to the second dungeon but closed the tab and forgot to copy the save code. At first I found the game really open and confusing, I assume that there was a lot of background information in the original detailed manual that I always see in retrospectives and when people get nostalgic about it that makes up for this. But I eventually settled into the game and the lack of guidance and sense of exploration that comes as a result of this is pretty refreshing. Sometimes when I play games like this I'm always a little saddened that I'm only playing them years or decades after their original release so I'll never quite feel the same as someone who played it for the first time in 1986. I also tried a little bit off Zelda II but I didn't enjoy that at all.

Also, I kind of feel that the Zelda series would have been better if the subsequent games had been more spiritual sequels than anything. The franchise feels a little like it's been bogged down in the consistent Hyrule universe which is why Ganon returns, or the game follows a certain pattern in the dungeons or the attempts to provide a timeline just confuse things further.

 

[redbarchetta]

Whoever thinks the WW overworld was interesting is fucking crazy.
There was nothing to do, no interesting stuff to find and changing wind-direction was a fucking chore - every single time.

Nailed it. I hated that baton. It seriously got to the point--and i'm not exaggerating at all--that I simply stopped using the baton all-together and would sail across the entire ocean opposing the wind by weaving back and forth...slowly. It took forever, but it was more entertaining than using the wand. Ugh.

 

[KTOOOOM]

This reminds me, I've never played any Zelda game ever. Oh well.

same goes here

 

[beelzebozo]

What? No it doesn't. You don't need to look for stuff, because there is exactly one thing to do on 90% of the squares, and it's always on the one piece of land sticking out of the otherwise flat blue carpet.

"Hey, there's a giant shell on this island. And there seems to be a rock that I can bomb blocking its entrance. Perhaps I shall do that. Oh my, what do you know, there is a great fairy in here that upgrades something."

That sure took a lot of exploring!

just the guarantee that there was something in every square was enough to drive me to go to each one, and being able to "collect" the information about that area of the map was also a nice touch that i enjoyed a lot. it certainly wasn't perfect, but i liked it; someone in another thread proposed a similar dedication to "segmenting" the overworld for the sake of filling it with content, but in a less obvious way. he had a diagram. it was sweet.

to your comment earlier about drawing the map being potentially annoying: yes, i agree. you should be able to amend the map, not draw it, adding important elements or making little notes, while the larger structure of the area is drawn in for you.

 

[PsySal]

[deleted]

 

[Dr. Muganda]

just the guarantee that there was something in every square was enough to drive me to go to each one

You got OCD or something? Maybe they'll expand that and the next zelda will have a feature to compulsively wash your hands or punish stepping on the gaps between dungeon tiles.

Exploring is awesome, but it shouldn't be a pain in the ass but come naturally within the gameworld and exploring in windwaker was more than painfull - it was torture.

 

[idwl]

question zelda fans: I am about to buy a wii and i am going to buy both twilight princess and wind waker. I have never played a zelda game before.

Which one do you think i should play first?

I had never played a Zelda before getting wii. So twilight princess was my first, go with that, Its an amazing experience. Wind waker is also good- but i didnt finish it.

 

[D-Pad]

I beat level 6 before calling it quits. Once you get the blue ring and the last sword, the enemies are nothing. Well, until you get to a room full of those shield things, the ones you can't hit from the front -- Those bastards are tough...

 

[beelzebozo]

You got OCD or something? Maybe they'll expand that and the next zelda will have a feature to compulsively wash your hands or punish stepping on the gaps between dungeon tiles.

Exploring is awesome, but it shouldn't be a pain in the ass but come naturally within the gameworld and exploring in windwaker was more than painfull - it was torture.

yeah, i have ocd man. i'd appreciate you not poking fun at me for it. medical conditions aren't funny.

 

[cartman414]

I've recently been playing some old games on virtualnes.com and the original Zelda was among them. I got up to the second dungeon but closed the tab and forgot to copy the save code. At first I found the game really open and confusing, I assume that there was a lot of background information in the original detailed manual that I always see in retrospectives and when people get nostalgic about it that makes up for this. But I eventually settled into the game and the lack of guidance and sense of exploration that comes as a result of this is pretty refreshing. Sometimes when I play games like this I'm always a little saddened that I'm only playing them years or decades after their original release so I'll never quite feel the same as someone who played it for the first time in 1986. I also tried a little bit off Zelda II but I didn't enjoy that at all.

Sounds like you barely gave Zelda II enough time for it to click.

Also, I kind of feel that the Zelda series would have been better if the subsequent games had been more spiritual sequels than anything. The franchise feels a little like it's been bogged down in the consistent Hyrule universe which is why Ganon returns, or the game follows a certain pattern in the dungeons or the attempts to provide a timeline just confuse things further.

Yeah, true. It seems like only the most popular games in the series got them.

yeah, i have ocd man. i'd appreciate you not poking fun at me for it. medical conditions aren't funny.

So true. Especially if it's mixed with ADD.

 

[Firebug2K9]

this one, 3 for SNES, and Ocarina of time were the best

 

[Firebug2K9]

oh and isnt "Dark Cloud" for the playstation a rip off of link????

 

[djtiesto]

It's funny how resistant some people are to the idea of being plopped in a world with no signs about what to do, considering that every game is bloated with tutorial content for the first half of the game nowadays. I wish some games would do this nowadays.

Me too... some of the holistic "tutorials" in Zelda and the early NES games were incredible. Subtle hints pointing you to what you're supposed to do, instead of beating you over the head with it (i.e. something Zelda has become increasingly a victim of in recent times. No shit that a Blue Rupee is worth 20 Rupees, no need to tell me after playing TP for 50 hours ).

I do agree that some elements, i.e. bombing a crack in the wall on the other side of the river to find level 8 in the Second Quest, were a bit too obtuse.

 

[spliced]

I got inspired to go back to some LoZ after seeing a few people talking about playing the old NES Zelda's around here. I had played it in my early days years ago but it never really clicked with me the way a lot of other Nintendo classics did.

This time around I found I really enjoyed it. The pure gameplay without a story bogging it down is something that really appeals to me. The exploration of trying to figure out what to do next was for the most part really cool and rewarding. The challange was just about for me.

I played thru the first quest twice, the first time I died 20 times, second time 8. The things that gave me trouble were the 6th level which is an absolute nightmare with those blue Wizzrobe guys that are bar none the hardest enemies in the game, especially when they are in a room that has other stuff to deal with. The 9th level as expected was also fairly tough. But the thing that slowed me up the most was trying to find the 8th level. I didn't think the clue was very good for that. I thought "secret is in the tree at the dead-end" meant these trees.

So anyway I spent hours trying to figure out what to do before I finally gave up and checked a walkthrough to find level 8.

Overall I liked the first quest alot and perhaps I should have quit there. But no I went on to play the very frustrating 2nd quest. The jump in difficulty is huge. The first 2 levels were fine but then I couldn't find the 3rd level so I am searching for hours until I give in and check a walkthough and find that somehow I was supposed to know to walk through a wall to get the flute which opens up the 3rd level.

Anyway I continue on, get through 3, 4 and even 5 which gives me a beating. Then oh joy it's the nightmare of nightmares, level 6 second quest. First of all once again I can't find the stupid dungeon, I have no idea where on the entire map it is. I actually did play the flute in one of the graveyard screens but it wasn't the right one and nothing happened. So back to the walkthough to figure it out.

When I get into the 6th level I just got destroyed. Blue Wizzrobes in an even tougher dungeon and this time I didn't have a ring to reduce damage. I created a new graveyard in that dungeon but eventually I cleared it. I actually beat level 8 first which enabled me to get the Magic Sword and made going back into and beating level 6 easier.

Next up level 7 and wouldn't you know it again I can't find the entrance. Hours of searching later I check the old walkthrough again. I had to look on Youtube this time because I didn't know that shooting the flame at the bush you are standing immediately next to won't burn it down.

I got through 7 and had already done 8 so I went to 9 and sort of got stuck and by that time my patience had run out and I really just wanted to get it over with so I checked what in-dungeon wall I needed to bomb. I had so many runs of get a red potion and bombs explore a bit of a dungeon, use up my potion and bombs, die, go get more supplies that I was sick of it by then.

Finally after about 30-40 hours and 147 deaths later I beat the 2nd quest. I didn't so much mind the difficult dungeons(other than 6, I wish I had the blue ring for that)., it was the next to impossible task of finding the dungeons that sucked hard.

Things I think the second quest should have had:
Red Candle - needs to be given before level seven. Being restricted to one burn per screen is just a frustrating waste of time when you have to search out a bush to burn to continue the game.

Bombs - If I have to go around blindly searching for dungeons the bomb carrying limit needs to be like 100 and bomb item drops need to be 10. I wasted so much time going to refill my bombs.

Hints - Not having hints to help you find hidden dungeons is just plain bad. Searching for hours and hours to find something you have no idea where it is or how to find it is not fun.

Blue Ring - I think early in level 6 you should have a chance to buy the blue ring if you haven't found it up to that point. 6 and 9 are just too hard without it imo.

Even though I had some problems with the second quest I'm really glad I revisted LoZ and I think I'd rate it higher now than I would have before.

 

[WillyFive]

:lol

Wind Waker's overworld is one of the best in the series. It actually encourages you to explore.

 

[Carnby]

I really freaked out while I had to fight Shadow Link. For me, beeing a kid, it was just mind-blowing. I mean... Shadow Link. Damn! I was so freaked out, after the fight, I called my friend, told him what I just did -- his reaction: "Dude, you call me during dinner to tell me a story that you fought Shadow Link?" He didn't "get" it, I suppose...

if you and i had known eachother when we were kids, we would have been good friends. :lol

 

[jdogmoney]

Gah. I don't know where to go for this, but does anyone happen to have a picture of Anju's wedding dress from Majora's Mask?

 

[TheCardPlayer]

Played it, but never finished it before. I got a Wii Points card, and now I am totally finishing this bitch. Oh hell yeah. Haven't played this one since I was a kid. Let's do this shit.

 

[KittyKittyBangBang]

welcome to my childhood, enjoy your stay.

Same here, This was the first NES game I got (besides the SMB/Duck hunt) and was the only game I had for 6+months and played the ever-loving shit out of it. Played it again when it came out on VC and cemented it as my favorite game of all time (probably nostilgia driving the hyperboli)

Has there ever been a game more "ahead of its time" than the first Zelda?

 

[KittyKittyBangBang]

question zelda fans: I am about to buy a wii and i am going to buy both twilight princess and wind waker. I have never played a zelda game before.

Which one do you think i should play first?

Buy Ocarina of Time on VC and play it first, then play Wind Waker, then play TP.

All three of those games are absolute classics that should be among the best video game experiences of your life.

 

[WillyFive]

Buy Ocarina of Time on VC and play it first, then play Wind Waker, then play TP.

All three of those games are absolute classics that should be among the best video game experiences of your life.

Yeah. I played Wind Waker first, and it made Ocarina of Time look like an archaic mess. I recommend going in order to appreciate them more.

 

[Marvie_3]

Played it, but never finished it before. I got a Wii Points card, and now I am totally finishing this bitch. Oh hell yeah. Haven't played this one since I was a kid. Let's do this shit.

Meet the old man at the grave.

 

[TheCardPlayer]

Meet the old man at the grave.

Fuck yes! So far, I found and completed Level 1, stumbled on Level 5, then 3, meet an old guy with a sword that I couldn't pick up, and an old lady that was mute. :lol :lol

This is glorious. I am so glad that I never read anything on the game. It's pretty much a new game for me. Can't wait to dig farther in!

EDIT. Found Level 2, then the boss without finding the map or compass or the dungeon item. And killed him with 2 fucking bombs. :lol :lol That's the piece of shit that I couldn't defeat as a kid. Adult self 1, kid self 0.

EDIT 2. Fucking sweet. Went back in to find the dungeon item and looking at the hub map and the start menu map, I saw that I was missing two rooms. Bombed some walls and scored a sweet fucking blue boomerang. Fuck yeah!

 

[Nir3m3diados]

I still waiting for A links awakening done in 3d that is one of the best games in the series, but I guess people won't play it since it is for the gameboy and gameboy color.

 

[Nir3m3diados]

Yeah. I played Wind Waker first, and it made Ocarina of Time look like an archaic mess. I recommend going in order to appreciate them more.

QFT the is the reason that new zelda fans think that Tp is better than Ocarina, since at the time Ocarina was released that was the best graphics of the 1998, other games did not have the good graphics that is the reason it is one of the best of all time, while Tp was released when all games looks with good graphics, well to the point that if you play Tp first you won't appreciate Ocarina as it deserves it and the is the same going to the past, with A links' awakening, A link to the past and the original games.
Nobody appreciates A link's awakening since it is for the old gameboy and gameboy color