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[BanjoLayleeYookaKazooie]

indeed

Well if you say so. I feel so awful, repugnant and guilty for things people who aren't me said years ago just because I like some of the things they like.

What a riveting and fascinating point of discussion this is!

Spoiler

Not. Obviously.

 

[brinstar]

That's not really frustrating.

What's frustrating is your failure to provide evidence beyond "Nintendo fans said these things, I swear!" As if "Nintendo fans" are a monolith who all say the same things and all hold the same opinions. As if "Nintendo fans" are the only people who said these things about Vita.

"Nintendo fans" and their mean words aren't the reason the Vita failed. The market rejected it.

It also implies that fans of the Switch can't have possibly been Vita owners themselves, like we all have to be locked into these arbitrary console tribes.

On top of that, a lot of the criticism towards the Vita was in threads specifically about why it failed in the first place, in those kinds of discussions all people can do is speculate even if it's ultimately incorrect. Saying "it failed cuz of [blank]!" isn't the same as saying "I'll never like [blank]"

 

[inner-G]

This is almost laughable. Keep telling yourself how great those console Vita ports were without a full set of buttons needed for those games. No one wanted to play gimped handheld versions on the vita.

You sound like a misinformed fanboy.

Vita had a lot of amazing ports.

The post you quoted mentioned games like Persona 4 Golden and FF X/X-2, they weren’t ‘gimped’ on vita. Shit, P4G is the most feature-complete version of the game that has ever released. Plus it’s higher resolution than the console version. Put the PS2 and PSTV versions side by side and it’s clear the vita version is not ‘gimped’.

Other games like Muramasa are better on Vita than their original systems, too. Im sure there are more, I haven’t played a lot of newer stuff that come out for it though.

 

[family_guy]

It's amazing how many people are still saying they will wait for a portable only or a TV only version of the Switch. You will be waiting a long time. The market does not support your desires right now. Consumers are seeing the value of a hybrid experience. Some that want it as a portable have decided the $300 price tag is worth it. Some that see it as a TV only experience have decided the same. But the majority of consumers think the hybrid experience is an incredible value. Nintendo does not see any reason to cater outside of that market right now.

You have no real data to support this. Wii U is dead and 3DS support is drying up. You don't have any other option if you want to play future Nintendo games. I don't doubt that many people like the hybrid nature, but to say the majority bought the Switch for that reason probably doesn't reflect reality.

 

[Cerium]

It's amazing that some people have truly convinced themselves that the Vita failed because of unfair no good double standards.

 

[inner-G]

I don't doubt that many people like the hybrid nature, but to say the majority bought the Switch for that reason probably doesn't reflect reality.

Even if someone never plays in handheld mode, they still know they can, though. That increases perceived value and differentiates it from competing consoles/handhelds.

It may not be THE reason they bought it, but it is a big part of the product image, marketing, branding and appeal.

 

[molnizzle]

Even if someone never plays in handheld mode, they still know they can, though. That increases perceived value and differentiates it from competing consoles/handhelds.

It may not be THE reason they bought it, but it is a big part of the product image, marketing, branding and appeal.

This is me.

I mostly play on the TV. But last month when I had to go to Michigan for a week for a wedding it was amazing when I realized I could bring my Switch and all my games with me. For the plane, down time at night, whenever. Everything was just right there.

I'd honestly use handheld more around the house with a more comfortable "grip" accessory. I've ordered one and am looking forward to others in the future that can stay on while docked. That'll be a game changer for me.

 

[Crayon]

Ive had no issue with the joycon face buttons as a dpad. I like it thanks to the size, spacing, height, placement, resistance etc. I don't see any reason to change it. A third party can make a dpad joycon if there is a market for users who are serious about their dpad looking right.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Even if someone never plays in handheld mode, they still know they can, though. That increases perceived value and differentiates it from competing consoles/handhelds.

It may not be THE reason they bought it, but it is a big part of the product image, marketing, branding and appeal.

Yup.

This is me.

I mostly play on the TV. But last month when I had to go to Michigan for a week for a wedding it was amazing when I realized I could bring my Switch and all my games with me. For the plane, down time at night, whenever. Everything was just right there.

I'd honestly use handheld more around the house with a more comfortable "grip" accessory. I've ordered one and am looking forward to others in the future that can stay on while docked. That'll be a game changer for me.

Double yup.

My Switch rarely leaves its dock. But I took a vacation with my wife a few months back and was able to bring my Switch with me. Having my entire "console" library in the hotel room was pretty awesome. Got a few hours of Neo Turf Masters, ARMS, and various other games in during downtime.

My Switch will primarily act as a device tethered to my television. But having portability as an option adds value to the hardware for me and I'd be surprised if many other users who primarily play the system on the TV don't feel the same way.

 

[BanjoLayleeYookaKazooie]

It's amazing that some people have truly convinced themselves that the Vita failed because of unfair no good double standards.

Ain't that the truth, I'm just re-reading it all a little flabbergasted to be honest. I mean even if there's a "Nintendo fan" who can be identified here who said the things said... so what? Even if we can find 2, 3, 4, more? What happens? Those people would look a little silly but even then it is understandable why the Vita failed beyond people being "hypocritical" and why people like buying games on the Switch more.

And as pointed out above most of the Vita's biggest critics were people who owned one and wanted to see it improve and succeed, for most of everyone else it was easy to find it irrelevant, and I know that was me from experience, Sony didn't do anywhere near enough to convince me otherwise.

So... yeah I guess all Switch owners owe Vita owners an apology for not buying one? Or something? Was there even a point to this beyond that?

 

[Coricus]

It's amazing that some people have truly convinced themselves that the Vita failed because of unfair no good double standards.

I always thought people said the Vita failed because the memory cards were too expensive and Sony didn't support it.

I don't think I ever heard the idea that people didn't want to play indie games on the go before this thread, just that they weren't seeing other kinds of games they did want.

 

[Phoenixus]

I'd honestly use handheld more around the house with a more comfortable "grip" accessory. I've ordered one and am looking forward to others in the future that can stay on while docked. That'll be a game changer for me.

Quoting myself from this thread;

I've been using the grey version of these for a few months, can highly recommend;

You can't see it in the picture but they have a rubber bulk at the back that gives more grip room for the hands, and since it only covers the joycon it doesn't block the dock so you never need to take them off.

Worth checking out that thread if anyone is looking for grip options.

 

[MiketheBSG]

I can't imagine it being any good in a game like Super Castlevania 4 (playing right now on SNES) or Cuphead due to diagonals.

Tbh I thought it sucked even for Sonic and that's barely a platformer. We definitely need a joycon w/ dpad before Kirby and Yoshi come out. Honestly just slap a SNES dpad right where the face buttons are and call it a day. This pad is perfect.

This might sound crazy, but couldn't someone come out with a glove/clip/cover to put on/over the Joycon so that it has a proper D-Pad? Like a cover so the diagonals would work properly?

 

[VistraNorrez]

You have no real data to support this. Wii U is dead and 3DS support is drying up. You don't have any other option if you want to play future Nintendo games. I don't doubt that many people like the hybrid nature, but to say the majority bought the Switch for that reason probably doesn't reflect reality.

It's selling very well and being sold on the concept that you can play games on your TV and on the go. You don't need anything else to compare it to.

And I never said they purchased it for that reason, just that it adds value. And I bring that up because if the system sells as well as it does on the hybrid concept, then why would Nintendo release a portable only or TV only version? The market his telling them, in no uncertain terms, that people want the Switch as is at this price.

The people that say they want it just as a portable or just hooked to a TV, and for cheaper, are not people Nintendo has to listen to right now. Those voices are being drowned out by everyone else purchasing the Switch.

 

[Rayis]

Threads like this always turn into dumpster fires and this one is no different.

Anyway, I'm a lapsed "gamer" ( hate that word) and the Switch brought me back into gaming and is perfect for me due to its hybrid nature plus I've always been partial to Nintendo's offerings.

 

[tenderbrew]

Yah it's maybe the best piece of hardware I've ever owned. I still get a smile on my face docking and undocking it. Take it everywhere with me when traveling. And the embarrassment of riches that has been the library so far has led me putting 50+ hours into games that I may have not picked up were they not in a place I could pick up for a few minutes at a time and suspend at will. Regular consoles have become the odd man out for me. If I want peak performance I got PC and if I want hybrid I go Switch.

 

[AgentOtaku]

Nailed it OP

 

[GamePlay Johnny]

There has to be some middle ground here, where one recognizes the way Vita advanced handheld gaming, without pretending that the Borderlands port on the Vita is comparable to the Doom port on Switch, or that Uncharted: Golden Abyss and Killzone: Mercenary are comparable to BOTW and Odyssey.

 

[AgentOtaku]

Same. The amount of games I've completed since I've gotten the Switch is insane. Before the Switch I used to complete two to four games a year. With the switch I've now completed at least a dozen. 5 minutes here and there really does add up. I mean, I have over 200 hours in Zelda. There's NO way that would've happened if I were tethered to a TV.

Man, I remember playing Persona 5 shortly after I completed Zelda and Jesus, was that rough.

Amen!

 

[Huge Succeeded]

It's amazing that some people have truly convinced themselves that the Vita failed because of unfair no good double standards.

It's straight up stupid. And we'll be seeing the same names spouting the same bullshit in the next like thread.

 

[Bioshocker]

I've never been a handheld gaming kind of a guy, but PS Vita almost changed that. What a wonderful system. Perfect size, wonderful controllers and an amazing screen.

If it had been successful and been supported with more AAA games like BioShock and The Last of Us I might even have dropped one of my two main consoles at home to make time for Vita. Switch, however, mostly lacks the kind of games I'd like on a handheld and is way too expensive for a handheld as well. So no. I'm back playing on my Xbox and PlayStation again.

 

[MattKeil]

I like my switch. It’s been a good purchase for Zelda alone and I’m really looking forward to Mario.

But I feel like I’m missing something crucial because for me it’s not nearly been the revelatory experience as it seemingly is for so many here on gaf.

If you believe, like I do, that nothing is ever better on handheld, the Switch is just another Nintendo exclusive device.

 

[Occam]

It's portable, but not portable portable. There's definitely a refresh in the pipeline in the next year.

I'd love a Vita-sized Switch, but I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. There are several components (most notably the battery) that won't be further miniaturized for a while.

 

[Cerium]

I'd love a Vita-sized Switch, but I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. There are several components (most notably the battery) that won't be further miniaturized for a while.

Incompatible Joy-Cons would also be a bitch, unless they remove that feature and just glue it all back onto the handheld.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I've never been a handheld gaming kind of a guy, but PS Vita almost changed that. What a wonderful system. Perfect size, wonderful controllers and an amazing screen.

If it had been successful and been supported with more AAA games like BioShock and The Last of Us I might even have dropped one of my two main consoles at home to make time for Vita. Switch, however, mostly lacks the kind of games I'd like on a handheld and is way too expensive for a handheld as well. So no. I'm back playing on my Xbox and PlayStation again.

Interesting. Did you find the Vita to be "way too expensive for a handheld"? I ask because you seem to genuinely love that device, so I have to assume you were able to accept its asking price.

A Vita + the cheapest memory card (games on the system are unplayable without a memory card) was $270 at launch. A Switch is $300. Is a $30 difference really "way too expensive for a handheld"?

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

I’m still bitter over the Switch’s sudden success, but I’ll get over it.

 

[Cerium]

I'm still bitter over the Switch's sudden success, but I'll get over it.

Honestly can't tell if this is satire.

 

[redcrayon]

Am I allowed to say that I liked the Vita, and like the Switch (it's likely to be my only console for new games going forward) too? The Vita's form factor is my favourite one on a portable, the d-pad is great and it's my preferred way to play PS One classics and indie games. Decent sales on PSN counts for a lot for picking up a lot of games that didn't appeal to me until they were at impulse-buy level, which is something I don't think Switch will do. I appreciate neither of them are devices for everyone but for me they've been perfect.

 

[tenderbrew]

Honestly can't tell if this is satire.

Haha, same. I'll assume it is because I (foolishly) believe in humanity.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

It also implies that fans of the Switch can't have possibly been Vita owners themselves, like we all have to be locked into these arbitrary console tribes.

On top of that, a lot of the criticism towards the Vita was in threads specifically about why it failed in the first place, in those kinds of discussions all people can do is speculate even if it's ultimately incorrect. Saying "it failed cuz of [blank]!" isn't the same as saying "I'll never like [blank]"

First no one implied that Switch owners couldn't have been Vita owners as well, I mean I'm both myself.

Furthermore Vita criticism was in every single thread about it, I could link you dozen of threads as exemple. There's a reason as to why most Vita talk was kept in the community thread (which was later killed as well).

Making fun of the double standard isn't some console tribes thing, quite the opposite since I was making fun of people who don't care about some feature until their prefered console maker do them.

 

[phanphare]

I’m still bitter over the Switch’s sudden success, but I’ll get over it.

what a strange thing to be bitter about lol

did I miss the sarcasm?

 

[Viale]

People who don't care for switch really gloss over the fact that it's a hybrid. It really is the best feature. Not that it's never been done before, but this is designed for it. It switches in a second and you don't have to go searching for a controller, a cable, or even the right channel or input cuz of CEC. It's removed any trouble there could have been.

Feel like it's overlooked because so often people have to revert to calling it a handheld due to the people constantly knocking it because of 'weak' graphics. Which is true, the brains of it are entirely mobile, but the experience isn't.

It may be the best feature to you, but the dock is just a glorified charger for me as my rationale is if I can play it handheld, why would I play it differently. If it came out as a handheld only, I doubt my perception of it would change at all really. Best feature is actually split joycons controller as man it's so nice to be able to be any weird position I want and play a game comfortably.


A lot of the pros people list for the switch are all great, but I felt the same years ago about my vita, and I absolutely loved and still love my vita. I'm not entirely sure why people take it being compared to vita as an insult to the system, but I'm stoked for it seeming like a successor, and while there isn't a lot for me on the console at the moment, I'm very optimistic about the next year.

 

[phanphare]

It may be the best feature to you, but the dock is just a glorified charger for me as my rationale is if I can play it handheld, why would I play it differently. If it came out as a handheld only, I doubt my perception of it would change at all really. Best feature is actually split joycons controller as man it's so nice to be able to be any weird position I want and play a game comfortably.


A lot of the pros people list for the switch are all great, but I felt the same years ago about my vita, and I absolutely loved and still love my vita. I'm not entirely sure why people take it being compared to vita as an insult to the system, but I'm stoked for it seeming like a successor, and while there isn't a lot for me on the console at the moment, I'm very optimistic about the next year.

it's not that it's an insult it's just that most of the comparisons to vita are disingenuous as all hell

the "oh now people care about gaming on the go" line of thought mostly

it's just silly and it's even sillier that we're in october and people are still trotting that line out

 

[Huge Succeeded]

First no one implied that Switch owners couldn't have been Vita owners as well, I mean I'm both myself.

Furthermore Vita criticism was in every single thread about it, I could link you dozen of threads as exemple. There's a reason as to why most Vita talk was kept in the community thread (which was later killed as well).

Making fun of the double standard isn't some console tribes thing, quite the opposite since I was making fun of people who don't care about some feature until their prefered console maker do them.

The thing you aren't quite getting is that there is no double standard. Those of you suggesting that there is some sort of double standard are disregarding as much context as possible to support that perspective. You've boiled down all Vita criticism of that nature to "oh nobody wants console/PC games on a portable". People perceive the Switch differently in that regard but they've got good reasons to.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Honestly can't tell if this is satire.

Nah. As someone who loved the Wii U from day one I’m just a bit bitter that both publishers and customers didn’t give a fuck about the platform.

 

[jorgejjvr]

It's hard for me to play on anything but switch nowadays. Feels like a shore, and it feels restrictive

Like, my ps4 is now forcing me to play on the TV. When I just want to play laying down on the bed or couch, or with split controllers/joycons.

The switch in hindsight, feels freeing

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Honestly can't tell if this is satire.

Haha, same. I'll assume it is because I (foolishly) believe in humanity.

what a strange thing to be bitter about lol

did I miss the sarcasm?

It is not satire.

And you did not miss any sarcasm. NOLA_Gaffer has been struggling with the Switch's positive reception since launch day.

There is a small handful of diehard Wii U, 3DS, and Vita owners on GAF who are genuinely miffed about Switch's early success, because in their minds, Switch is succeeding for the same reasons those devices failed (3DS didn't really "fail", but it had a rough start and was never widely embraced by the west as a truly serious platform), when the reality is those devices dealt with their own issues. When you've grown so personally attached to a piece of hardware that the success of a separate platform calls your earlier beliefs into question, this is the result. In the mind of this type of person, Switch's success simply cannot be legitimate. Or if it is, it was built on the backs of the true innovators, so it hasn't really earned it.

 

[Viale]

it's not that it's an insult it's just that most of the comparisons to vita are disingenuous as all hell

the "oh now people care about gaming on the go" line of thought mostly

it's just silly and it's even sillier that we're in october and people are still trotting that line out

I don't mean to start an argument or anything in the slightest, but a lot of praise I hear is still gaming on the go while commuting, in bed, etc. Is there something that makes that part different for people enough to make more of it? Is it just the selection of games? I'm not referring to the addition of some cool features like joycons and local coop. Personally, it doesn't feel much different to me except it's a newer(and nicer) piece of hardware

 

[Mass_Pincup]

The thing you aren't quite getting is that there is no double standard. Those of you suggesting that there is some sort of double standard are disregarding as much context as possible to support that perspective. You've boiled down all Vita criticism of that nature to "oh nobody wants console/PC games on a portable". People perceive the Switch differently in that regard but they've got good reasons to.

Hum no, I never said that those were all the criticism the Vita received, I just said that something which was seen as a negative back then is suddenly a positive in another platform.

There's no context which will change that.

it's not that it's an insult it's just that most of the comparisons to vita are disingenuous as all hell

the "oh now people care about gaming on the go" line of thought mostly

it's just silly and it's even sillier that we're in october and people are still trotting that line out

How is it trolling though?

 

[phanphare]

I don't mean to start an argument or anything in the slightest, but a lot of praise I hear is still gaming on the go while commuting, in bed, etc. Is there something that makes that part different for people enough to make more of it? Is it just the selection of games? I'm not referring to the addition of some cool features like joycons and local coop. Personally, it doesn't feel much different to me except it's a newer(and nicer) piece of hardware

Switch is a hybrid, Vita was a pure portable

How is it trolling though?

because anyone with any sense can see why the two platforms are different

 

[eKongDiddy]

You sound like a misinformed fanboy.

Vita had a lot of amazing ports.

The post you quoted mentioned games like Persona 4 Golden and FF X/X-2, they weren’t ‘gimped’ on vita. Shit, P4G is the most feature-complete version of the game that has ever released. Plus it’s higher resolution than the console version. Put the PS2 and PSTV versions side by side and it’s clear the vita version is not ‘gimped’.

Other games like Muramasa are better on Vita than their original systems, too. Im sure there are more, I haven’t played a lot of newer stuff that come out for it though.

Sorry man, I had a Vita and the only game I played on there was P4G. Never played the original, but it seemed made for a handheld. Loved that game, but it’s not some massive system seller. I had FF X/X-2 on my PS4 that could play the game way better. All those try-to-be “console” games were all jumped due to the control options.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Switch is a hybrid, Vita was a pure portable



because anyone with any sense can see why the two platforms are different

Who said that they're the same?

 

[sneas78]

I don't think its ram can handle it.

My GPD win disagrees:
This is cuphead.

https://youtu.be/4jnedN-Vcz0

 

[Viale]

Switch is a hybrid, Vita was a pure portable



because anyone with any sense can see why the two platforms are different

I guess I just don't personally see as many comments regarding it being a hybrid and mostly see people raving about taking it somewhere to use it. I almost exclusively use it as a portable, so that might color my opinion of it as well I guess.

 

[jariw]

Who said that they're the same?

The post that the poster replied to?

 

[MiketheBSG]

I see a lot of sentiment regarding the Vita in here. I love my Vita, but my point is that the Switch is both beneficial as a console and a handheld. The Vita has console experiences but is still just a handheld, it can’t be docked to a TV for continued play. You can get a PlayStation TV and play Vita games on TV, but that’s separate hardware and still requires transfer of saves (if digital) or game card to continue play, an extra step not needed with Switch.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

The post that the poster replied to?

He's specifically talking about the praise the Switch is receiving for " gaming on the go".

He didn't say that they're the same.

 

[phanphare]

Who said that they're the same?

read any switch thread? including this one?

 

[Lothars]

This thread has convinced me that there are lots of folks who don't own a Switch but who have a burning need to comment about it.

how bout people that don’t think the switch is the be all to end all and still owns one?

 

[mugwhump]

The Nintendo Switch sucked my dick yesterday