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[VanWinkle]

This isn't the case always, but generally, if there's combat in a game, then it's a big focus of that game. For me, regarding the various gameplay mechanics in a game (exploration, platforming, puzzle-solving, etc.), combat is my least favorite part.

I don't hate combat, and I appreciate when there are good mechanics in place, but I would like to spend most time doing other things. Take open-world games. I love open worlds, but almost all of them have combat as the main focus. I'm playing Borderlands 2 right now on The Handsome Collection, and I love the world, the humor, the art style, and what-not. I just wish it wasn't SO focused on shooting. I like some, but I'd love to see more quests revolving around traversal mechanics, exploring, stuff like that. Just mix it up more. Sunset Overdrive had some awesome traversal mechanics that were used fairly frequently, but it was almost always in conjunction with combat.

I guess what is unfortunate is that, if I want a small combat focus, I have to go all the way towards a non-combat game. That's not a solution I like, because I enjoy some combat. I think it's an important part of most games. Why does it have to be so BIG a part, though?

I think one game that satisfied my needs really well was Jak & Daxter: The Precursor Legacy. There was combat, but it was just one cog in the larger wheel. But that game came out like 14 years ago. So, that doesn't really help me. I do love platformers in general, in that regard, though.

I'd love to see a great open-world RPG where combat took more of a backseat to exploration and traversal and puzzles and investigating and stuff, but it still HAD combat.

 

[JCX]

Interesting you mention open-world games as being combat-focused since I don't see them that way at all. If anything, open-world games need a bigger focus on combat that is fun to just play. Battle/Combat systems are very important to me in games though, moreso than music and story.

 

[DoublePayje]

Worst game for me was Battlefield Hardline. A singleplayer-experience where you play a detective, and the whole game is a shooter. Which is okay to some part, its Battlefield. But there is exactly zero detective-work in there and the handcuffing-mechanic was embarassing/hilarious gameplay wise.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

I love games that are almost soley focused on good combat systems. Games like Vanquish, Bloodborne, Bayonetta (2), Metal Gear Rising, Bulletstorm, etc.

What sucks are all these half-baked combat systems in so many games. GTA V is a good example. Combat is trash.

 

[Noobcraft]

I hate being forced into combat situations in games. In The Last of Us for example, the world is falling apart and everyone is supposed to be trying to survive/ration supplies, but as soon as an enemy sees you they don't hesitate to unload unlimited amounts of ammo at the crate/wall you're hiding behind.

I love games like Deus Ex HR which, for the most part, allow you to play through the game without shooting a bullet.

 

[Olliewilldie]

I love games that are almost soley focused on good combat systems. Games like Vanquish, Bloodborne, Bayonetta (2), Metal Gear Rising, Bulletstorm, etc.

What sucks are all these half-baked combat systems in so many games. GTA V is a good example. Combat is trash.

Yep came here to say this.

It's a real problem for me in games like Skyrim where I just get bored after a few hours because the combat is in my opinion just boring as sin.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

Open world games usually have crap combat and are repetitive as hell, hence why it's awful when they focus on it.


Games with good combat focusing on combat are the best.

 

[345triangle]

I love games that are almost soley focused on good combat systems. Games like Vanquish, Bloodborne, Bayonetta (2), Metal Gear Rising, Bulletstorm, etc.

What sucks are all these half-baked combat systems in so many games. GTA V is a good example. Combat is trash.

i would extend this to uncharted 3, the last of us, bioshock infinite, and a bunch of other games that ostensibly should have good combat.

like, if you want to make a cool action game, cool, make an action game. don't make a story-led game in a super compelling setting and ruin it with uninteresting combat — it helps no-one.

so yeah that's why i like bayonetta more than the last of us despite wishing the last of us would have less action.

 

[Klossen]

Open-world games rarely focus on combat. Only DD comes to mind and that's a great game.

 

[rosesaredan]

I know exactly what you mean and I've never been able to articulate it. I think it was in New Vegas where you could beat the game by just talking your way out of everything and never shooting, but I want games to take it further. Like being able to barter your way through the game. Somehow...

 

[ppor]

Witcher 3 quests are better than most games, but they usually still throw in obligatory combat when traveling between Point A and Point B. Wish more quests could be just pure dialogue/puzzles/detective mode.

 

[Sagely]

Very much agreed. I'll gladly put hours and hours into a game that is dedicated towards satisfying and fun combat (echoing the sentiments about Bayonetta). However, I could do with a lot less of it in the likes of Uncharted and GTA. For me, the Zelda series has a good balance of combat with exploration and puzzle solving. I think it's nice to balance out combat with more relaxed activities, which is why I tend to enjoy RPGs the most.

 

[EatChildren]

I think what the op is saying is that he/she wishes there were more big, comprehensive games (like open world games) where combat was not a cornerstone of moment-to-moment play but instead perhaps a game system (irrespective of its quality) used sparingly. "Conquer the enemy/Defeat the target" is a pillar of design in almost every single game on the market, which is kind of crazy when you really think about it. The op is wishing there were games that emphasised other elements at the core of the design first and foremost. Like imagine an open world Tomb Raider or RPG where killing dudes/monsters/animals wasn't a recycled game component regularly encountered, but instead the game relied on other mechanisms to structure quests, exploration, narrative, and development.

 

[autoduelist]

This isn't the case always, but generally, if there's combat in a game, then it's a big focus of that game. For me, regarding the various gameplay mechanics in a game (exploration, platforming, puzzle-solving, etc.), combat is my least favorite part.

There are only so many gameplay systems you can develop and perfect per game. Once you build a few major systems, you build your game around them. So if you make a combat based game, you will fight a lot. If you build a huge conversation tree system (like ME, say) you'll use it in most conversations. If you build a parkour system, then you'll make tons of obstacles to run/jump over in the environment.

But ultimately, devs spend a lot of money/time/effort on each system, so you only build what you plan on using a lot. otherwise, you scrap it. So... a game with a well developed combat system but not much combat isn't likely - it would require a lot of investment into something they know, by design, they don't plan on using.

 

[VanWinkle]

I think what the op is saying is that he/she wishes there were more big, comprehensive games (like open world games) where combat was not a cornerstone of moment-to-moment play but instead perhaps a game system (irrespective of its quality) used sparingly. "Conquer the enemy/Defeat the target" is a pillar of design in almost every single game on the market, which is kind of crazy when you really think about it. The op is wishing there were games that emphasised other elements at the core of the design first and foremost. Like imagine an open world Tomb Raider or RPG where killing dudes/monsters/animals wasn't a recycled game component regularly encountered, but instead the game relied on other mechanisms to structure quests, exploration, narrative, and development.

Exactly correct.

 

[PooBone]

Imagine how much better Uncharted 1-3 would be if they had about one third of the enemy encounters.

 

[Scorpion Soldier]

Worst game for me was Battlefield Hardline. A singleplayer-experience where you play a detective, and the whole game is a shooter. Which is okay to some part, its Battlefield. But there is exactly zero detective-work in there and the handcuffing-mechanic was embarassing/hilarious gameplay wise.

I agree with this one. It was pretty much the equivalent of Bad Boys, but with less likeable characters and a much, much higher bodycount rather than a proper police game.

 

[345triangle]

Open-world games rarely focus on combat. Only DD comes to mind and that's a great game.

that's not an excuse for their combat sucking. GTAV felt like a revelation because its combat was maybe semi-acceptable for a gameloft iOS ripoff of uncharted

 

[Sagely]

One game I really enjoyed for its lack of boss fights and comparatively small focus on combat was Alice: Madness Returns. It had a lot of platforming, exploration and beautiful environments to enjoy, but did still tend to use combat to gate progress. All things considered, I liked the bigger focus on platforming but once again the combat was fairly shallow - at least the devs seemed to recognise this and refrain from adding boss fights (I hate poorly conceived boss fights).

I suppose combat is still a common driving force in many games, to the point where it's given more focus than necessary. It would definitely be nice to see a quality over quantity approach.

 

[TimeEffect]

Id love some good puzzles. How great would witcher be if there were more missions that were puzzles?

I like Uncharted's puzzle breaks but want more of them

 

[Magic Mushroom]

i would extend this to uncharted 3, the last of us, bioshock infinite, and a bunch of other games that ostensibly should have good combat.

like, if you want to make a cool action game, cool, make an action game. don't make a story-led game in a super compelling setting and ruin it with uninteresting combat — it helps no-one.

so yeah that's why i like bayonetta more than the last of us despite wishing the last of us would have less action.

I quite like ND's combat systems. They're really dynamic. Uncharted has lots of verticality to play with and The Last of Us has this on the fly improvisation where you can switch between stealth, melee, gun combat and even make a run for it if you see fit.

But games like Skyrim, AC and GTA are so, so bad.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Metroid Prime is like that - its focus is on the exploration, combat is only "required" for boss fights and certain rooms.

 

[lazygecko]

Thief might fool a lot of people into thinking it's another first person action game, but it will pretty much eviscerate you if you treat it that way, and ultimately condition you into avoiding combat as much as you can.

This also makes me remember my first experience with Resident Evil 2. I could never get past that first scene with the zombies swarming the car wreck, because I had been so conditioned by prior video games that I always just tried to kill all the zombies before moving on. It never once occured to me that I ought to just run away.

 

[Punished_Snake]

It depends on the game. Games such as Bayonetta 1 & 2 (third person brawler), Dark Souls series and Bloodborne (action RPGs) are focused on the combat because the combat is deep and rewarding. In God of War games they mix it up with combat, puzzles and platforming because the combat alone can't carry the whole game. You have the Zelda games which don't focus heavily on combat and mix gameplay elements in a fun way.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Until they can sell walking, talking, and puzzle solving as an exciting and entertaining a core gameplay loop they can sell to millions of people...

 

[BigTnaples]

Alien: Isolation.

 

[GeeTeeCee]

I agree. I prefer games like God Of War to Bayonetta and the later DMC titles precisely because the world/exploration/puzzles etc are more compelling and fleshed out to me than the combat arena focused approach of the latter games.

 

[AgentP]

I love games that are almost soley focused on good combat systems. Games like Vanquish, Bloodborne, Bayonetta (2), Metal Gear Rising, Bulletstorm, etc.

What sucks are all these half-baked combat systems in so many games. GTA V is a good example. Combat is trash.

GTAV isn't bad, I would substitute Witcher 3, Skyim and Arkham series.

 

[EatChildren]

I agree with the op, mind you, as someone who adores action heavy games anyway. Even Wild Hunt, my favourite game of the year, most of my strongest memories come from moments outside of combat; following a narrative driven quest arc, discovering something unique, or simply the combination of weather, time of day, and music coming together for perfect ambience. Similarly I really don't like the Assassin's Creed series at all, but I love the sailing in Black Flag. Taking your ship out on the ocean, the rolling waves, knowing you can dive off into the water at any point, discovering little islands on your own, etc. That really excited me. It's also why, even though it's my least favourite 3D Zelda, I loved the sailing in Wind Waker; it was a massive game component that emphasised exploration and mystery without relying on combat too much.

When I think about games like Bayonetta and Vanquish I get a hard on for how fucking incredible and rich the combat systems are, and I wouldn't have it any other way. But for other series I wish it was used sparingly, especially when there's a big open world to explore and other game systems that could take centre stage. Like the new Tomb Raider, for example. I really didn't like the reboot, and I don't care about the new one, but I'd love the idea of a semi-open world game set in Siberia where I'm braving forests, climbing mountains, surviving the cold, etc, without that conquest almost always involving some sort of aggressive enemy opponent I either need to kill or stealth past.

EDIT: Another example: even though I think it plays mostly fine in first person with the shooting, I've spent far more time passively exploring the open world than I have engaging in any conflict.

 

[Punished_Snake]

I agree. I prefer games like God Of War to Bayonetta and the later DMC titles precisely because the world/exploration/puzzles etc are more compelling and fleshed out to me than the combat arena focused approach of the latter games.

But God of War games puzzles are uncreative (Been there, done that) and the platforming is simple. I love focused games more than jack of all trades master of none.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

No Man's Sky is for you then

 

[GeeTeeCee]

But God of War games puzzles are uncreative (Been there, done that) and the platforming is simple. I love focused games more than jack of all trades master of none.

I understand that action game aficionados prefer Bayo etc to GoW, and I get why, but they do nothing for me personally. I think he first DMC game is still the best in the series because it still retains some of the Resi design elements it started with. If I don't want to delve into the complexities of the combat system, at least there's other things in the game I can enjoy.

I'm not going to say Bayo etc are awful (because they aren't), they're just not for me.

 

[Lil'DigiOp]

Exactly correct.

I agree with the op, mind you, as someone who adores action heavy games anyway. Even Wild Hunt, my favourite game of the year, most of my strongest memories come from moments outside of combat; following a narrative driven quest arc, discovering something unique, or simply the combination of weather, time of day, and music coming together for perfect ambience. Similarly I really don't like the Assassin's Creed series at all, but I love the sailing in Black Flag. Taking your ship out on the ocean, the rolling waves, knowing you can dive off into the water at any point, discovering little islands on your own, etc. That really excited me. It's also why, even though it's my least favourite 3D Zelda, I loved the sailing in Wind Waker; it was a massive game component that emphasised exploration and mystery without relying on combat too much.

When I think about games like Bayonetta and Vanquish I get a hard on for how fucking incredible and rich the combat systems are, and I wouldn't have it any other way. But for other series I wish it was used sparingly, especially when there's a big open world to explore and other game systems that could take centre stage. Like the new Tomb Raider, for example. I really didn't like the reboot, and I don't care about the new one, but I'd love the idea of a semi-open world game set in Siberia where I'm braving forests, climbing mountains, surviving the cold, etc, without that conquest almost always involving some sort of aggressive enemy opponent I either need to kill or stealth past.

EDIT: Another example: even though I think it plays mostly fine in first person with the shooting, I've spent far more time passively exploring the open world than I have engaging in any conflict.

That's a very interesting view I've never noticed before. While I think that's a valid trend in bigger games at the moment, part of that is finding the right games because there are plenty throughout the years. Also part of that is defining what is combat to the actual player? Is it the player vs enemy construct, or player vs ideal, player vs resource

OP, you should play games like Zack and Wiki. A very troubling and witty game that leaves me stumped. The combat of that game is truly your logic and timing, rarely enemies and as a result can leave you frustrated in a really motivating way. Completely different from normal games.

Catherine is a good one too. Interesting story and very engaging puzzle system. You should play Phoenix Wright series as well.

I thinking on a meta level that games always require some form of combat to be defined as a game. It may not have to take the form of a physical enemy. Even in Farming Simulator, your conflict is the time you have to generate a resource.

 

[Punished_Snake]

I understand that action game aficionados prefer Bayo etc to GoW, and I get why, but they do nothing for me personally. I think he first DMC game is still the best in the series because it still retains some of the Resi design elements it started with. If I don't want to delve into the complexities of the combat system, at least there's other things in the game I can enjoy.

I'm not going to say Bayo etc are awful (because they aren't), they're just not for me.

I understand. I love the first dmc as well for its structure and atmosphere. But my favorite dmc game is dmc 3. Also, I enjoy God of War games, God of War 2 is my favorite. And I have enjoyed Castlevania: Lords of Shadows too. But I prefer Bayonetta, MGR and dmc games to GOW and CLOS. What's your opinion on Zelda and Darksiders games?

 

[Molemitts]

There's to many games which have a focus on combat but the combat is complete shit. Many open world games and WRPGs come to mind. It's because it's easier to market action and it's expected from games as combat is easy to turn into mechanic. Games like Dark Souls and Bloodborne are some of my favourite games for having incredible exploration and combat. Many games can't pull this off so I'm gonna link to MrBtungue's Video on violence in games, which basically says slow it down. Instead of games throwing loads of enemies at you in scenarios where it makes no sense for the main character to come out alive, instead find more interesting and unique scenarios with smaller amounts of enemies. That's my take on this anyway.

 

[BlackRock]

Combat sells. And it's easy content to make. Adding in more battles is much easier than making story or well done puzzle encounters. This has been true since forever.

I do agree with you that many games the combat gets very tiresome and I often wish for more substance, but I'm not sure it's likely to change due to the above.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

I do agree that a classic style Tomb Raider would be awesome thought and I want more RPGs to have quests in which you solve puzzles, do detective work or talk your way out of situations, as long as these are well thought-out systems.

 

[Kalopsia]

I wish games about driving weren't so focused on driving.

 

[Peltz]

I feel like the post-NES era Zelda games are not really focused on combat. I'd like to hear about OP's thoughts on them.

 

[Kanye]

I wish more games focused on actually developing combat systems instead of being slash/roll simulators.

 

[GeeTeeCee]

I understand. I love the first dmc as well for its structure and atmosphere. But my favorite dmc game is dmc 3. Also, I enjoy God of War games, God of War 2 is my favorite. And I have enjoyed Castlevania: Lords of Shadows too. But I prefer Bayonetta, MGR and dmc games to GOW and CLOS. What's your opinion on Zelda and Darksiders games?

I've only played a little of the first Darksiders (I liked it), but I love Zelda. The scale and ambition of the Zelda series (or Zelda-alikes like Okami) are in another league to most games in my opinion. Zelda probably has the best balance between combat/exploration/puzzles etc than anything else I can think of.

 

[VanWinkle]

I wish games about driving weren't so focused on driving.

What you mean to say is "I wish games that have driving in them weren't so focused on driving." Then, with the added context that you aren't talking literally about driving games, it would make sense. In that case, you could be talking about the Batmobile in Arkham Knight, in which case I'd agree.

I feel like the post-NES era Zelda games are not really focused on combat. I'd like to hear about OP's thoughts on them.

Wind Waker is great. Only one I've played, since it was redone for Wii U.

 

[Cyber Caesar]

We have an unhealthy appetite for socially destructive behaviors. We know killing virtual people shouldn't be a form of entertainment but we can't help ourselves. We are murderous pack hunting apes.

 

[maxcriden]

I feel like the post-NES era Zelda games are not really focused on combat. I'd like to hear about OP's thoughts on them.

I came in to say this, too. Even Skyward Sword with its focus on thoughtful combat didn't feel like that was its sole or primary focus necessarily.

OP, I know you dig Sly, too. I think you do, at least. So there's one with combat but not focused on it.

 

[NickFire]

I think that in another two or three generations the OP may get their wish. As great as today's graphics are, they are not exactly immersive yet without something action packed to keep our attention.

 

[EatChildren]

That's a very interesting view I've never noticed before. While I think that's a valid trend in bigger games at the moment, part of that is finding the right games because there are plenty throughout the years. Also part of that is defining what is combat to the actual player? Is it the player vs enemy construct, or player vs ideal, player vs resource

When I say combat in this case I'm specifically referring to player vs enemy/target and not a more abstract interpretation of a challenge. I can understand why 99% of games (especially of the AAA variety) have this; it's a very simple concept that eloquently balances ideas of "game", challenge with play. "Beat the enemy" is as basic as game design gets (not just for virtual games either), and it makes sense to develop a fun variant of "beat the enemy" integrate it into your game.

Many of my favourite games do a really fantastic job of pacing their encounters between satisfying down time. Resident Evil 4, Metroid Prime, Half-Life 2 are use combat/action as a cornerstone of the design, but don't use it excessively except for necessary climaxes. These three games also appreciate the importance of slower pacing, lows defining the highs, giving the player more time to internalise their adventure and exploration before throwing aggressive, reflex driven challenges at them. The 'Souls series does this a bit too, despite combat being so important in the game, by subverting character action game design of scripted encounters to instead give you almost full autonomy on when and how you engage.

When I use my previous examples (Black Flag, Wind Waker) I don't mean to say I wish these games had no combat. I'm glad Zelda does. I'm not glad Black Flag does because it's fucking shit, but if it had good combat I'd be stoked! So I suppose I'd say that I don't necessarily need games to totally abandon combat, but for combat to be a secondary, sparingly used game system (that still plays well by its own merits) cleverly paced between stretches gameplay not focused on combat. Like sailing the seas in Black Flag, finding an island, exploring it a little bit, getting back on your boat, battling tidal waves in a storm, then running into an enemy ship after that long stretch of gameplay and having a climatic 1-on-1 dual with cannons firing, wood burning, sails splitting, boarding the enemy ship, etc. That's fucking exciting and a great gameplay loop. When you sail out of a port and there's like 8 ships waiting for you to fight them the combat high is lost as it becomes saturated by repetition.

I think this is what attracts me to Zelda. Between dungeons (which already have plenty of down time via puzzle solving) you can spend a lot of solid game time outside of combat.

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

The Order: Inspection simulator

 

[Punished_Snake]

I've only played a little of the first Darksiders (I liked it), but I love Zelda. The scale and ambition of the Zelda series (or Zelda-alikes like Okami) are in another league to most games in my opinion. Zelda probably has the best balance between combat/exploration/puzzles etc than anything else I can think of.

I agree, too bad that games like Zelda and Okami are none existent these days and no one is trying to replicate the Zelda experience in a different way.

 

[RespectThySole]

I agree with the op, mind you, as someone who adores action heavy games anyway. Even Wild Hunt, my favourite game of the year, most of my strongest memories come from moments outside of combat; following a narrative driven quest arc, discovering something unique, or simply the combination of weather, time of day, and music coming together for perfect ambience. Similarly I really don't like the Assassin's Creed series at all, but I love the sailing in Black Flag. Taking your ship out on the ocean, the rolling waves, knowing you can dive off into the water at any point, discovering little islands on your own, etc. That really excited me. It's also why, even though it's my least favourite 3D Zelda, I loved the sailing in Wind Waker; it was a massive game component that emphasised exploration and mystery without relying on combat too much.

When I think about games like Bayonetta and Vanquish I get a hard on for how fucking incredible and rich the combat systems are, and I wouldn't have it any other way. But for other series I wish it was used sparingly, especially when there's a big open world to explore and other game systems that could take centre stage. Like the new Tomb Raider, for example. I really didn't like the reboot, and I don't care about the new one, but I'd love the idea of a semi-open world game set in Siberia where I'm braving forests, climbing mountains, surviving the cold, etc, without that conquest almost always involving some sort of aggressive enemy opponent I either need to kill or stealth past.

EDIT: Another example: even though I think it plays mostly fine in first person with the shooting, I've spent far more time passively exploring the open world than I have engaging in any conflict.

This is pretty much me.

 

[VanWinkle]

I came in to say this, too. Even Skyward Sword with its focus on thoughtful combat didn't feel like that was its sole or primary focus necessarily.

OP, I know you dig Sly, too. I think you do, at least. So there's one with combat but not focused on it.

Yeah, I'm a big fan of Sly. I hope we get a new one this gen.

The Order: Inspection simulator

Oh man. Now, see, that's one of the most egregious examples of wasted potential by overstating the importance of combat. That world and art style are so incredible, and the roles these characters played in society could have made for such an amazing game. Instead, it's the most bottom-of-the-barrel, bog-standard pure shooting game ever.