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Ideal type of Sonic games going forward?

M

Mark1

Member
I'm very curious to see how people reply to this one, purely because the fanbase is so fragmented due to the inconsistency of quality in Sonic games throughout the years. But we have been introduced to some fun gameplay styles to suit the blue hedgehog.

People love the classic, momentum based gameplay, but we also have fans who love the more speed focused boost gameplay. And I don't see a problem with this, each gameplay style has their appeal. It's like the Zelda or Metroid games. Overtime they have altered enough to reach new audiences - compare Super Metroid to Prime for example, each game has their own fanbase now.

Looking below at the main games (not counting Boom since that had no involvement from Sonic Team and it's considered a different universe from these ones anyway) I've list them in multiple categories:

Classic
Sonic 1, 2, CD, 3, Knuckles, Advance (debatable) and Mania (mainline ones at least)

Adventure
Adventure, Adventure 2, Heroes, Shadow, '06

Boost
Advance 2, 3, Rush, Rush Adventure, Unleashed, Colours, Generations, Forces

Other
Lost World (so nearly put this in the Adventure category but it plays too differently to them)

Another reason I put this up is so people can see more of the positive aspects this series has brought to gamers.

You can choose more than one for the record. What would you prefer Sega to release after 2017?
 
R

_Ryo_

Member
If Mania is successful continue to make classic style 2D games. Experiment with 3D Sonic Adventure style games on the side. 2D should be the main focus.
 
B

Blue-kun

Member
I'd say a mix of both. Keep on improving on the boost formula and have Taxman and crew focus on 2D experiences. They've proven they can do Classic just fine, so leave 3D Sonic to Sonic Team.

I guess we're living the ideal Sonic time right about now with Mania and Forces coming up so soon.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Have a Classic series running concurrently with a modern series.

I want the next modern game to either reinvent the boost formula or try something new entirely. Maybe see what worked in Lost World, see what works in Forces and go from there. Drop classic Sonic, with Mania and hopefully sequels from there it's redundant and the Generations style - while closer to the classics than something like Sonic 4 - still misses the mark in some ways. Feel free to experiment with other characters again without diverting too hard from the standard Sonic gameplay, the Avatar stage seems like a step in this direction.

For the Classic series have Taxman do it and just give him more resources. Let Sonic Mania 2 be brand new and further innovate on the Classic formula. All new levels, maybe a new character (each Genesis game added a new one).
 
O

OrangeGrayBlue

Member
First of all, Chao Garden was more addicting than it had any right to be.

With that said, I wouldn't mind an attempt at refining the Adventure style, specifically how there are different gameplay styles depending on the character you're using. The classic games are great of course but realistically I can only play that style of game for like 30 minutes before it becomes a bit redundant. There's a lack of freedom to explore in 2D platformers that makes them less engaging than 3D games to me, even if said 2D game has tighter controls and less stupid design decisions.
 
N

Neoxon

Junior Member
I'd rather the Boost games not split their focus on Classic levels & let the Mania-like games handle those.

Honestly, I'd like to see Sonic Team refine their ideas from Lost World like how Colors was a refinement of the ideas from Unleashed's daytime levels.
 
S

SimonM7

Member
BossRush said:
Just make more games like Colors
Click to expand...

This! Why does Sega always have to overcomplicate things and IMMEDIATELY after they strike some sort of gold, promptly head off in a new direction? Gens and Rush Adventure were the exact same semi step backwards, and then the next one was a total start from scratch with none of the lessons learned in mind. Audible sigh.

I guess it's admirable that they'd want to keep evolving the games, but maybe make sure the next one is worthwhile before abandoning a template that is working. If they actually kept making Rush games with sweet Naganuma soundtracks I would keep playing them. And Colours is my favourite 3D Sonic, bar none, so I'd play Colours 2, 3, 4, and onward as well.

Lost World had potential, but it needed to stay in the oven for way longer, so that there were more than like three levels that leveraged the gameplay properly.
 
N

Nicky Ali

Member
I think they need to come up with a new style of 3D gameplay.

A lot of fans have been clamouring for a 3D modern Sonic game that is fully physics based and controls and feels like the 2D games. Like Sonic Utopia and Green Hill Paradise Act 2.
 
S

SomeRandomWeirdGuy

Member
I love the Unleashed/Boost style, but I honestly think it's high time to give another go at an Adventure styled game. The boost style spends so much time in 2D mode, that it almost defeats the purpose of being a 3D game. Let Mania and it's possible sequels cover 2D gameplay and have the 3D games refine genuine 3D gameplay.

I also miss the sense of place that Adventure 1 and 2 (to a lesser extent) had. They were weird, but if you squinted some of the zones and the hubs actually felt reasonable in-universe. The modern games have been way too abstract. That's fine for platforming don't get me wrong, but we've had so much that.

Of course the first Sonic game I ever played was SA2B, and the one I played most was probably SADX. So what I like about Sonic games is probably a lot different than most here.
 
W

Waddle Dee

Member
I think, going forward for now, they should have two games being made at the same time. One being a Classic-styled game by everybody working on Mania (continue to give them larger budgets) and the other being a 3D game that plays like Unleashed/Colors/Generations, though without unneeded gimmicks. Just focus on making the controls feel tight and satisfying and polish up the various mechanics.Sonic Forces is looking a bit cluttered but if they toned it down and focused on just Boost gameplay I think it could work out.

So yeah, just release those two types of games for the next half decade or so, with a couple spin-offs from other developers on the side.
 
Silvawuff

Silvawuff

Member
I think all those different game styles are important to Sonic, but nothing can beat Classic for me. Also don't forget about those niche Sonic games that have popped up over the years, like Spinball/Mean Bean Machine.

It would be nice to see a proper return to the Adventure format, but I really hope Mania kills it and Sega takes a "more like this" approach with Classic.
 
M

Mark1

Member
I'd be happy with two main focuses on games like Mania and Colours/Generations/Forces (just no more Classic Sonic - focus on improving the boost gameplay).

And if you can get a third team for the Adventure like games then boom, more factors would be solved than convoluting them.
 
N

NinjaCoachZ

Member
I'd honestly be just fine with either a modern attempt at Adventure (if it was done well) or just continuing the Boost style, keeping it fully 3D, and maybe giving another shot to Unleashed's adventure fields since I actually liked those. Maybe more the latter since that's what we've seen Sonic Team of the past 10 years be good at with the series.

Definitely let Taxman and his crew continue making Mania-style games.
 
T

TreIII

Member
They can do whatever the hell they want for the Boost-style or whatever, as far as I care.

But as long as I can get more Classic goodness like Mania every few years, too, I'm great.
 
P

Piers

Member
What gameplay type they pick isn't important. What's important is they focus on getting project management down.
Sega's new CEO vowed to give projects more time to simmer, and you'd think Sonic Team would of seen that as water in the desert.
Going by Sonic Forces development, they spent years scratching their heads over what to do and thought "SHIT, DEADLINE, just redo Generations!! Fuck it!!"
 
Shifty

Shifty

Member
Honestly I'd like to see them combine Boost and Lost World physics. Switch by holding a button, weave a combination of tight platforming and boost highways more intricately into the level design.
Oh, and leave the 2D gameplay to its own subseries.

Given that it'll never happen, I guess I'll take more Boost style games. Just quit it with swapping out gameplay types, bouncing between 3D, 2D and Inspector Gadget Mode in the new one looks lame as hell.
 
S

Stat Flow

He gonna cry in the car
Just saying "Classic" isn't enough. Classic has been bastardized by Sonic Team to mean "Cute sonic and 2D gameplay" while the physics are still not nearly as good, the design and overall gameplay isn't anything like 1-3K.

Now that we are at this point, the "Type of Sonic Game" has two definitions to me:

Mania

Or

"Everything else"

And the obvious answer to OP's question is Mania.

I've said it in every Sonic thread I've posted in: The ideal scenario is that Mania sells very well, and the current Mania team gets a nice budget and ample development time to come out with a "Sonic Mania 2" or "Sonic ____" that is a further evolution on the Mania formula, but with 100% original levels.

The inclusion of the drop dash in Mania is such a simplistic yet seemingly amazing advancement of the formula that I have no doubt that they could continue to add to the formula and make it fresh every time, going beyond level design.
 
K

Keinning

Member
If Sonic Mania is good, more games like it
If its not, then i won't care anymore so whatever - let the fans of the other stuff have their games then. It's not like i was buying sonic games in the last years so i wont be surprised if they're not catering to my taste
 
G

Galactic Specter

Member
With Mania releasing, classic Sonic can be its own series much like the New Super Mario Bros. I want Sonic Team to refine boost gameplay in future titles so that gameplay won't be split so much like Forces is.
 
S

Shadoken

Member
Spaced Harrier said:
Sonic Team can have a break and make a new IP in. New genre and get some air.
Click to expand...

You know this might be interesting to see their take on a more traditional game , they did make the original PSO after all. Would be interesting to see if Sonic Team is an actual good dev studio or if they are just constantly working on the wrong concepts.
 
Vlaphor

Vlaphor

Member
Freedom Planet is a great place to look. It started out as a Sonic fan-game, then the devs realized they had something amazing on their hands and decided to make their own original game, and it worked out great. It does feel like a progression of what Sonic games could have been going into the 32 bit era if they had stuck with sprites over polygons, and I fully recommend it. A sequel is coming out in the near future I believe.
 
Y

yyr

Member
I think it's too early to ask this question. Ask again when this year's games are out.

For all we know, Sonic Mania might show us that 2D Sonic isn't as fun as we thought it would be in 2017, and Forces could kick ass. I know we're all expecting the opposite, but...

I think back to when Metroid Fusion and Prime came out. I expected to love Fusion and hate Prime, but the exact opposite turned out to be true. Turns out Fusion was too linear to feel like a Metroid game at all, and Prime was awesome on every possible level.
 
I

I Wanna Be The Guy

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Classic Sonic needs to be a series going forward. Other than that first thing's first. Get Sonic Team the hell away from this franchise. Keep them on mobile spinoffs or something to give them something to do. Get another developer to come up with a new type of 3D Sonic game. A competent developer.
 
B

BlazinSkatinAxel

Member
They need to put Whitehead to work on an Adventure style Sonic game.


Use inspiration from Sonic Adventure only any not other ones listed like SA2, Heroes, or '06.
 
B

Blue-kun

Member
ScientificPizza said:
Yeah exactly. There's not reason why both shouldn't exist.

I am very curious to see how the sales of Mania stack up against Forces though
Click to expand...

The only thing that's going to keep more Mania from existing is if Mania somehow bombs. If not, and especially assuming it sells close to or even outsells Forces (which is doubtful, but we'll let people hold on to that belief for as long as possible), it's obvious that SEGA can just throw more money at Whitehead and the team and order a follow-up to it right away.

And... that doesn't mean that more modern Sonic can't be made. Because Forces will still end up selling more and it's developed by a completely different team. It's not like SEGA is in a position where they need to pick one or the other, a poor company who can't afford two projects that will both be commercially successful at the end of the day.

I Wanna Be The Guy said:
Classic Sonic needs to be a series going forward. Other than that first thing's first. Get Sonic Team the hell away from this franchise. Keep them on mobile spinoffs or something to give them something to do. Get another developer to come up with a new type of 3D Sonic game. A competent developer.
Click to expand...

GAF Sonic threads are always such incredible places. It's always this, or "Nintendo can make a good Sonic game", or even my favourite, "Sonic Team needs to look at Sonic Utopia to see what's good level design and what the fans want!". Truly top class stuff, lads.
 
G

Giga Man

Member
7Th said:
Rush counts as Boost even if it's 2D? It's pretty much just a follow-up to the Advance series.
Click to expand...

Rush introduced the boost mechanic that carried over into the 3D games.

I do think the OP should have mentioned the Advance series, though.

As for me, I'm still in the camp that loved Adventure/2's gameplay the most. Mainly the Sonic (and Shadow) parts, obviously. Heroes was fun, too. Everything else in that generation was trash, unfortunately.

If all else fails, they can try Sonic Shuffle again! :D
 
I

I Wanna Be The Guy

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Blue-kun said:
The only thing that's going to keep more Mania from existing is if Mania somehow bombs. If not, and especially assuming it sells close to or even outsells Forces (which is doubtful, but we'll let people hold on to that belief for as long as possible), it's obvious that SEGA can just throw more money at Whitehead and the team and order a follow-up to it right away.

And... that doesn't mean that more modern Sonic can't be made. Because Forces will still end up selling more and it's developed by a completely different team. It's not like SEGA is in a position where they need to pick one or the other, a poor company who can't afford two projects that will both be commercially successful at the end of the day.



GAF Sonic threads are always such incredible places. It's always this, or "Nintendo can make a good Sonic game", or even my favourite, "Sonic Team needs to look at Sonic Utopia to see what's good level design and what the fans want!". Truly top class stuff, lads.
Click to expand...
Sonic Team have had their chances. They fumble over and over and over and over again. How many chances do they need? A change is needed. Sonic Team do not deserve the benefit of the doubt any more. They are a developer with absolutely no confidence and a piss poor track record.
 
K

Kneefoil

Member
The game I'd like to see the most right now is a more refined take on the gameplay in Sonic and Shadow stages in Adventure 2. No treasure hunting, no mech shooting, no fishing, nothing like that.

Going forward infinitely though, I would like to see several gameplay types. I don't want boost to go away, I don't want classic to go away, and I also don't want them to stop making 3D Sonic games that are different from "boost to win". Iron out those kinks in the level design and park-our mechanics of Lost World, do more Adventure type action platforming, try more new things. I just don't think that any one type of gameplay would keep me happy forever. Even 3D Mario almost always experiment with new actions and movement for Mario, and I want Sonic to do the same.

Ideally, though, each game would mainly focus on one type of gameplay. It made sense for Generations because it was an anniversary game, but I'd rather keep boost and classic in separate games for the most part. If not for anything else, then at least just so the Classic Sonic segments won't give me an immediate comparison point for how bad the 2D Modern platforming sections are.

Shoving these two types of gameplay into the same game also creates the risk of forcing people to play through half the game that they don't like that much just so that they get to play the parts they do like. In Sonic Forces that might even be two thirds that some people don't like and only one third that they like. That doesn't seem like wise design to me.
 
P

PeakPointMatrix

Member
There's going to be a lot of militant Classics die-hards here, hey but why not both. Considering Mania, I think it's a guaranteed thing that Sega will continue a strictly Classics line of releases.

Anyway, I've argued this before, but people have nothing but troll answers and faulty logic to poke holes in it. But the Adventure route is the way to go. Sonic Adventure 1 is still the best attempt at translating Sonic the Hedgehog into 3D.

  • An attempt at real pinball physics for momentum and movement.
  • A blend of speed and 3D platforming in a freer, semi-open environment
  • Multiple playstyles ala Sonic 3 + Knuckles, alowing you to view and access stages from entirely new perspectives.
  • Oppurtunity for a fun and "epic" narrative. SA1/Unleashed have been the only ones to really nail this.
  • Centralized Hub/Adventure fields that interconnect all stages and create a sense of "place".
  • Unlocking abilities that further flesh out your move set
  • Most importantly, the Chao Garden!

Adventure 1 is a robust, flexible gameplay style that has been marred in past attempts by poor management, crunched deadlines, transitioning to HD hardware and general incompetence. I believe the Sonic Team of today could attempt it with very few of the shortcomings that plagued past retries. And really, the only other time they actually attempted it was with Sonic 06, and a fraction of Unleashed. I'd say it deserves one last fair shot under better conditions.

Reducing the amount of playable characters will help Sonic Team's focus even further. Starting with Sonic, Tails and Knuckles as the only playable characters is enough.

Boost Style is fucking tired. We've had a decade of this shit already. It was novel at first but enough is enough. I want to play a 3D platform, not a track based racing/platformer thing.
 
P

PeakPointMatrix

Member
I Wanna Be The Guy said:
Sonic Team have had their chances. They fumble over and over and over and over again. How many chances do they need? A change is needed. Sonic Team do not deserve the benefit of the doubt any more. They are a developer with absolutely no confidence and a piss poor track record.
Click to expand...

What? No they haven't. Their games have been largely well received and well made over the last decade. Unleashed, Colors, Generations have all shown that. Even Lost World is just "okay". The hyperbole here is insane sometimes.

edit: aw feck, double post
 
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