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[D4Danger]

the transcript is online btw if you can't watch the video.

[PDF] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/29111503.pdf

AM: When we first talked, I think at the time of the Labour Party
conference, we talked about some of these issues, and you said
you thought matters of peace and war should be left to individual
conscience, it was such an important matter. And as a result of
that are you going to whip Labour MPs one way or another?

JC: No decision has been made on that yet. I will go and find out
what MPs think. Obviously there are strong views on both
directions. We’ll have a further discussion about this. My view –

AM: You can’t really whip them, can you?

JC: Well, my view about the membership of the Labour Party is
they must have a voice. Labour MPs need to listen to that voice,
need to try and understand where people are coming from on
this, and we will come to a decision as a party. But, I say this,
why can’t the government –

AM: So they have their own consciences and intelligences as MPs.

JC: Of course they do.

AM: And they presumably have to use those consciences.

JC: We will make that decision, not at this moment, later on.

AM: I understand that. I still ask you again, given –

JC: I thought you would. It’s your job.

AM: It’s my job. Given your background, given your own history,
you can’t really whip Labour MPs to vote against the government
if they believe something else.

JC: Listen, I understand dissent. I understand disagreement from
leadership. I talk to people who don’t agree with me, I talk to
people who agree with me, just as when I was a backbencher
myself I often talked to people with whom I actually had some
disagreements, but it doesn’t have to be abusive, it doesn’t have
to be personal, it doesn’t have to be nasty, it can be respectful,
and I’m respectful of differences of opinion within our party.

AM: And just to clear up the kind of – the kind of legal basis of all
of this – not the legal base, but the traditional base of it. Diane
Abbott says this decision on whipping or not whipping is for the
leader, is for you alone. But there’s been a suggestion that
actually it is something that could be decided by the Shadow
Cabinet, so which is it?

JC: It’s the leader who decides.

AM: The leader who decides. Alright, that’s fair. And you will make
up your mind when?

JC: I’ll make up my mind in due course.

AM: In due course, alright.

JC: Do you want to be the first to know?

AM: I was hoping we’d all be the first to know.

JC: No, no, you can’t be the first to know this morning, it’s Sunday
morning.

 

[Moosichu]

Yes and it went down like a lead balloon. Hence why his team edited it out when he tweeted a video of his official response hrs after the autumn statement.

I self proclaimed socialist chancellor brandishing the little red book at the dispatch box. What the fuck was he thinking. There were plenty of ways of making the point about the Chinese buying assets but surely not that one.

I never said it was a good move. As evidenced by the poster I was replying to. I was just saying that McDonnell didn't bring it out because he supported Mao.

 

[Spaghetti]

Corbyn said on Marr today its the leader who decides on airstrikes.

So much for consensus politics.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...ll-choose-position-on-Syrian-air-strikes.html

as the transcript at the top of this page says, it's not a case of "i'm making my mind up which way we go". it's very premature to say this is the end of his consensus politics when there is every indication that corbyn is feeling the situation out and not rushing into a decision.

 

[hohoXD123]

Corbyn said on Marr today its the leader who decides on airstrikes.

So much for consensus politics.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...ll-choose-position-on-Syrian-air-strikes.html

AM: And just to clear up the kind of – the kind of legal basis of all
of this – not the legal base, but the traditional base of it. Diane
Abbott says this decision on whipping or not whipping is for the
leader, is for you alone. But there’s been a suggestion that
actually it is something that could be decided by the Shadow
Cabinet, so which is it?

JC: It’s the leader who decides.

AM: The leader who decides. Alright, that’s fair. And you will make
up your mind when?

JC: I’ll make up my mind in due course

He answered a question with a simple fact. Don't try to twist this into him ending his consensus politics position.

 

[Rktk]

Sounds like it will be a free vote to me, he's backing off from saying the whip will be used.

He answered a question with a simple fact. Don't try to twist this into him ending his consensus politics position.

Nicktendo86 should have watched the interview instead of reading it through the Torygraph filter.

 

[funkypie]

You do realise McDonnell quoted Mao because it's been the Conservatives selling our land and assets to China right?

and not because he is a radical left wing socialist...

and why is diane saying Mao got soemthing right?

 

[War Peaceman]

and not because he is a radical left wing socialist...

and why is diane saying Mao got soemthing right?

dude it was clearly a joke.

McDonnell is a chump and it was a TERRIBLE joke, but it was obviously a joke.

 

[Coriolanus]

and why is diane saying Mao got soemthing right?

Because people are not caricatures?

 

[hohoXD123]

and not because he is a radical left wing socialist...

and why is diane saying Mao got soemthing right?

Well no, clearly not if you actually watch the exchange, I understand how inconvenient that would be when it comes to publishing sensationalist headlines though.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/25/john-mcdonnell-mao-zedong-little-red-book-george-osborne

It was pretty silly of him to give the Tory press such an open goal though.

 

[funkypie]

dude it was clearly a joke.

McDonnell is a chump and it was a TERRIBLE joke, but it was obviously a joke.

I know he's a chump, but no politician quotes Hitler and goes LOL jokes for obvious reasons. Mao killed more people and doesn't get a free pass either.

Because people are not caricatures?

Because Diane abbort is an idiot who more often than not says moronic things.

Well no, clearly not if you actually watch the exchange, I understand how inconvenient that would be when it comes to publishing sensationalist headlines though.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/25/john-mcdonnell-mao-zedong-little-red-book-george-osborne

It was pretty silly of him to give the Tory press such an open goal though.

I saw the exchange, didn't need to read a headline and then post on gaf.

 

[Rktk]

I saw the exchange, didn't need to read a headline and then post on gaf.

So either you are saying McDonnell threw The Little Red Book at Osborne because he is left wing or you are saying nothing at all, probably the latter.

 

[funkypie]

So either you are saying McDonnell threw The Little Red Book at Osborne because he is left wing or you are saying nothing at all, probably the latter.

dismiss my opinion because it doesn't agree with yours by equating what I am saying as nothing, ok.

I said mcdonnell is a joke who does moronic things such as the little red book. Some people might not agree he's a joke, but agree the red book stunt makes him look like a fool, so what is your point?

 

[Wrestlemania]

I know he's a chump, but no politician quotes Hitler and goes LOL jokes for obvious reasons.

You're right. When they quote Nazis they don't actually say "LOL jokes" - they stand by it.

 

[Rktk]

dismiss my opinion because it doesn't agree with yours by equating what I am saying as nothing, ok.

I said mcdonnell is a joke who does moronic things such as the little red book. Some people might not agree he's a joke, but agree the red book stunt makes him look like a fool, so what is your point?

You suggested McDonnell pulled the stunt because he was "radical left wing socialist", that seemed to be your opinion and that's what you were being quoted on. You want to say something different, that it was a moronic thing to do then fine, no one is disagreeing with you there.

 

[funkypie]

You're right. When they quote Nazis they don't actually say "LOL jokes" - they stand by it.

did he go through goebbels note pads and pull it out? because it sounds like something generic someone would say when trying to defend mass surveillance.

definition of clutching at straws there.

You suggested McDonnell pulled the stunt because he was "radical left wing socialist", that seemed to be your opinion and that's what you were being quoted on. You want to say something different, that it was a moronic thing to do then fine, no one is disagreeing with you there.

I said on the previous page he was a joke for it.

 

[Nicktendo86]

He's not going to use that bullshit poll as justification for a whipped vote, surely?

 

[openrob]

I have come to the conclusion that the focus on Corbyn and the Syria stuff is just a distraction. Put people just off the mark, make the discussion not about the bombing of a country and entering into a war, but rather about the popularity of an old bloke from Islington.

Ridiculous

 

[kmag]

Lord forgive me, but I actually agree with McDonnell. No MP on any side regardless of whether they're in the Government or the shadow cabinet should be whipped on matters of war. It's a matter of personal conscience and morality.

I heard McDonnell on 5 live yesterday and he seemed pretty sincere about that regardless of what Corbyn decides to do.

While the Labour chaos is amusing, no one seems to be batting an eyelid that the Tories will be getting whipped for the vote. The Tory divisions are all in their backbench but there's still a reasonable number of them according to David Davis.

 

[Mr. Sam]

It's being reported by The Guardian (this link is to some sort of live blog bullshit: http://www.theguardian.com/politics...give-cameron-victory-on-a-plate-politics-live) that Corbyn is giving MPs a free vote on Syria while making it clear that official party policy is against the bombing, which seems the most sensible solution to me.

 

[D4Danger]

Tomorrow

Labour in chaos as Leader Corbyn says he can't control his own party. Who will take over?

 

[Goodlife]

Tomorrow

Labour in chaos as Leader Corbyn says he can't control his own party. Who will take over?

Spot on

 

[hohoXD123]

He's not going to use that bullshit poll as justification for a whipped vote, surely?

Confirmed to be giving his MPs a free vote, not the end of consensus politics like you were hoping I guess.

 

[Goodlife]

Tomorrow

Labour in chaos as Leader Corbyn says he can't control his own party. Who will take over?

You called it.

 

[funkypie]

You called it.

Nothing remotely the same. Do corbyn fans think their is a conspiracy against them? Then again corbyn seems like he could very George Gallowayesq.

 

[MisterFalcon]

'48 HOURS FROM WAR IN SYRIA'

How British that it's not a real war until they get involved, just some locals having a bit of a tussle.

 

[Moobabe]

Nothing remotely the same. Do corbyn fans think their is a conspiracy against them? Then again corbyn seems like he could very George Gallowayesq.

Take the Metro headline as an example. A few days ago the press were attacking Corbyn for being against military action in Syria. Today we're going to war in Syria BECAUSE of Corbyn's decision to allow grown men and women to make their own minds up...

 

[Mr. Sam]

Nothing remotely the same. Do corbyn fans think their is a conspiracy against them? Then again corbyn seems like he could very George Gallowayesq.

There's certainly been some fucking ludicrous criticism of him (e.g. NOD IN MY NAME) but, aside from the usual colourful language from the tabloids, this is a rather tame set of headlines.

 

[Goodlife]

Nothing remotely the same. Do corbyn fans think their is a conspiracy against them? Then again corbyn seems like he could very George Gallowayesq.

You don't think it's strange that the man trying to stop us bombing Syria us today blamed on the front pages for making us bomb Syria?

 

[Mr. Sam]

You don't think it's strange that the man trying to stop us bombing Syria us today blamed on the front pages for making us bomb Syria?

That particular headline is perhaps strangely worded but it's not necessarily false.

 

[Condom]

The left is always gonna get more resistance in a neoliberal world.

 

[Real Hero]

Evil scruffy pacifist wants us to bomb Syria

 

[Calabi]

You don't think it's strange that the man trying to stop us bombing Syria us today blamed on the front pages for making us bomb Syria?

It's so blatant its laughable, anyone with half a brain can see the media's bias, and the more they do this sort of thing the more obvious they make it.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Confirmed to be giving his MPs a free vote, not the end of consensus politics like you were hoping I guess.

Did you read the reports of the shadow cabinet meeting? They told him they would not leave the room until he gave them what they wanted, he had to cave.

Anyway, he limps on. The next test will be the Oldham by election I guess on Thursday.

 

[BriareosGAF]

As an American the only UK paper I read with any regularity is the Guardian so this stuff always looks so bizarre. Is the majority of readership in the UK for trash tabloid format like the DM and Sun?

At least you guys have the balls to call it war, here in the US it's still an 'intervention'. Drives me up the fucking wall how Congress abrogates its responsibility in reigning in the executive in this regard.

 

[twobear]

As an American the only UK paper I read with any regularity is the Guardian so this stuff always looks so bizarre. Is the majority of readership in the UK for trash tabloid format like the DM and Sun?

At least you guys have the balls to call it war, here in the US it's still an 'intervention'. Drives me up the fucking wall how Congress abrogates its responsibility in reigning in the executive in this regard.

Yeah, the Mail and the Sun are the two highest circulation newspapers, unfortunately.

 

[funkypie]

As an American the only UK paper I read with any regularity is the Guardian so this stuff always looks so bizarre. Is the majority of readership in the UK for trash tabloid format like the DM and Sun?

At least you guys have the balls to call it war, here in the US it's still an 'intervention'. Drives me up the fucking wall how Congress abrogates its responsibility in reigning in the executive in this regard.

The sun and the daily mail are still a cut above the shit show you call cnn, Fox News etc

 

[Rktk]

As an American the only UK paper I read with any regularity is the Guardian so this stuff always looks so bizarre. Is the majority of readership in the UK for trash tabloid format like the DM and Sun?

At least you guys have the balls to call it war, here in the US it's still an 'intervention'. Drives me up the fucking wall how Congress abrogates its responsibility in reigning in the executive in this regard.

The Sun and Daily Mail do a great job of catering to their audience with a reading age of 11, mix of right-wing bias, anti-immigration, borderline racist pieces and a focus on celebrity gossip.

 

[twobear]

The sun and the daily mail are still a cut above the shit show you call cnn, Fox News etc

Lets not fool ourselves here, The Sun published Hopkins' 'asylum seekers are like cockroaches' column.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

You called it.

Aren't you guys already in Iraq and Afghanistan? The first head line makes no sense

 

[hohoXD123]

The sun and the daily mail are still a cut above the shit show you call cnn, Fox News etc

Not really. I mean, we're talking about papers which published columns calling immigrants cockroaches, unpublished fearmongering from the guy who "found" a link between the MMR vaccine and autism after he was discredited and dodgy surveys about Muslims sympathising with ISIS at a time of heightened islamaphobia. Heck, DM even has an entire section of their site called "Femail" dedicated to the most asinine stories because obviously that's what women like reading.

Did you read the reports of the shadow cabinet meeting? They told him they would not leave the room until he gave them what they wanted, he had to cave.

Anyway, he limps on. The next test will be the Oldham by election I guess on Thursday.

Which reports exactly? He has never expressed his desire to go for the whipping approach at any point, before the cabinet meeting or otherwise.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Aren't you guys already in Iraq and Afghanistan? The first head line makes no sense

Those aren't wars, they're just 'hullabaloos'.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Aren't you guys already in Iraq and Afghanistan? The first head line makes no sense

It doesn't have to make sense. And our presence in those countries is barely mentioned any more, it's a play on people's short memories and ignorance.

 

[CadetMahoney]

why are the brits all interested in airstrikes now anyway?

we know it's not to "fight ISIS" and we know cameron wants Assad dead and Turkey is an ally. Guess they don't want history to name Russia as the main player to "defeat ISIS".

"we did it" *victory pages.

 

[D4Danger]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...old-in-2015-says-michael-fallon-a6755711.html

“Is there a single commander who can weld all this together as Lawrence of Arabia tried to do 100 years ago – that I’m not sure,” he added.

“They are spread through Syria: over 20,000 in the Free Syrian Army [FSA] in the north, around 20,000 in the Southern Front commanded by [FSA commander] al Zoubi. There are groups throughout Syria that add to give you the overall figure of 70,000.”

Lieutenant General Messenger said the 70,000 were “not a coherent force” but said it would be wrong to consider them “a rag-tag army”.

this is going to be a disaster

 

[twobear]

shush you, now isn't the time for serious consideration

now is the time to bomb people and then claim afterwards that the result was unforseeable

 

[travisbickle]

The Brits love a good war, all those headlines are very positive.

 

[Maledict]

The Brits love a good war, all those headlines are very positive.

Given the scale of the protests and marches against the Iraq war, and the fall out from that, I think you are not completely up to speed on the UK. The Iraq war broke the most popular prime minister Labour had ever had, and has left an isolationist streak a mile long in all parties. The very fact Cameron even called a vote on air strikes in the first place shows how much the country is against military action nowadays - he didn't have to.

 

[Lime]

Why exactly is it that UK politicians are so eager to bomb Syria? They must have a reason, I'm just not seeing why.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Why exactly is it that UK politicians are so eager to bomb Syria? They must have a reason, I'm just not seeing why.

Sitting at the big boy's table, that's all.

 

[Valhelm]

Why does everyone take the piss out of Corbyn? Just seems like a run of the mill left-wing person.

His foreign policy is a little bonkers.