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[Blackace]

Better games like Bionic Commando right?

Maybe for being behind bombs like Lost PLanet 2, Bionic Commando and Dark Void?

No one said he MADE great games, he just said we NEED to make better games. But nice spin job, Japan's GAIJIN award is in the mail.

EDIT: Also the man has made some gems.. Most of my favorite CAPCOM games are from him. Zelda, Dead Rising 1 and 2, SF4, Mega Man (not a producer), Duck Tales (not a producer) I don't get the hate for the guy just because he thinks Japan should try to expand their skills

 

[Fimbulvetr]

No one said he MADE great games, he just said we NEED to make better games. But nice spin job, Japan's GAIJIN award is in the mail.

But he didn't make those games, a western company did.

It's easily possible to agree with the spirit of his argument, i.e. that Japanese companies need to globalize (not westernize, globalize) if they want to make it in the industry, but still see many of his comments as completely stupid: "Man, with the exception of that company I work for and a company my company is about to team up with; no game is remotely good or interesting this TGS lol; save us west".

 

[Blackace]

But he didn't make those games, a western company did.

It's easily possible to agree with the spirit of his argument, i.e. that Japanese companies need to globalize (not westernize, globalize) if they want to make it in the industry, but still see many of his comments as completely stupid: "Man, with the exception of that company I work for and a company my company is about to team up with; no game is remotely good or interesting this TGS lol; save us west".

He was in charge of those projects. They were his, just like Metroid was made by Retro but Miyamoto was in charge.

Really? He should have blasted his company and their future projects? really? lol

Of course he is going to sugar coat CAPCOM but even then he tried to address some of their misses...

Not everything he says was correct. Some of it was outlandish. But having a man who has been in the industry since almost the start saying he thinks Japan is failing and a bunch of Internet gamers calling for his job is pretty silly..

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

No one said he MADE great games, he just said we NEED to make better games. But nice spin job, Japan's GAIJIN award is in the mail.

EDIT: Also the man has made some gems.. Most of my favorite CAPCOM games are from him. Zelda, Dead Rising 1 and 2, SF4, Mega Man (not a producer), Duck Tales (not a producer) I don't get the hate for the guy just because he thinks Japan should try to expand their skills

I don't think he's wrong, or at least totally wrong in the theory, but his solution for the problem is wrong, he made some good decisions this gen, MT Framework really made Capcom internal development go two steps ahead in efficiency and quality in graphics compared to most Japanese developers, but he clearly dosn't know the way to reach that globalization, and Capcom is bleeding money because of him.

Dead Rising was a hit, but then, it's sequel took 4 years in which the hot moment the franchise could have got a bit too cold, it was outsorcered to a western developer which tech was clearly inferior to the MT framework Capcom internal studios, case zero reached 500k downloads on Live!, but still I have my doubts the sequel will reach the original numbers, and that for the franchise that it's supoosed to take RE torch is quite dissapointing.

And then we have LP which validity as a another profitable IP for Capcom crushed because of him, and let's not forget Bionic Comando and Dark Void, which clearly shows total lack of vision selecting western developers to work with.

And no, I'm not even going to talk about DMC...


Yeah, the guy made some awesome games, but Mikami and Kamiya too and they were fired for much less.

 

[Dennis]

Why this extreme defensiveness and anger?

If some Western developer had said that the West needs to learn from Japan how to polish games, make characters or whatever - no one would get upset.

Japan is falling behind, Inafune gets it and wants things to change - and gets massive hate for his honesty.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Why this extreme defensiveness and anger?

If some Western developer had said that the West needs to learn from Japan how to polish games, make characters or whatever - no one would get upset.

Japan is falling behind, Inafune gets it and wants things to change - and gets massive hate for his honesty.

Bullllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllshit.

 

[Blackace]

I don't think he's wrong, or at least totally wrong in the theory, but his solution for the problem is wrong, he made some good decisions this gen, MT Framework really made Capcom internal development go two steps ahead in efficiency and quality in graphics compared to most Japanese developers, but he clearly dosn't know the way to reach that globalization, and Capcom is bleeding money because of him.

Dead Rising was a hit, but then, it's sequel took 4 years in which the hot moment the franchise could have got a bit too cold, it was outsorcered to a western developer which tech was clearly inferior to the MT framework Capcom internal studios, case zero reached 500k downloads on Live!, but still I have my doubts the sequel will reach the original numbers, and that for the franchise that it's supoosed to take RE torch is quite dissapointing.

And then we have LP which validity as a another profitable IP for Capcom crushed because of him, and let's not forget Bionic Comando and Dark Void, which clearly shows total lack of vision selecting western developers to work with.

And no, I'm not even going to talk about DMC...


Yeah, the guy made some awesome games, but Mikami and Kamiya too and they were fired for much less.

MT Framework is his crowning jewel for this gen.. and Western Devs have been working like this since the last gen and before (for PCs) and that is the kind of stuff he is pointing to...

Of course just slapping happy go lucky gaijin in a game won't make it a hit out west but at least he is thinking of the west.

I don't know, Inafune isn't exactly attacking his company but talking about its future, I don't think even by Japanese standards he has done anything over the line

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Bullllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllshit.

Let's test his theory and get Cliffy B to say it in his next interview. Someone shoot him a PM.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

He was in charge of those projects. They were his, just like Metroid was made by Retro but Miyamoto was in charge.

'Cept Miyamoto knows what he's doing and he went down on Retro until they did things right.

Really? He should have blasted his company and their future projects? really? lol

Hey, he has no problem directly blasting the company's management. What's stopping him now?

Of course he is going to sugar coat CAPCOM but even then he tried to address some of their misses...

Like when he claimed the biggest problem with LP2 was the lack of an icy planet....

Not everything he says was correct. Some of it was outlandish. But having a man who has been in the industry since almost the start saying he thinks Japan is failing and a bunch of Internet gamers calling for his job is pretty silly.

1) Literally everything outside the basic idea that Japan needs to expand was pretty dumb. Though I guess you are technically right in that "some" can also mean "most".

2) I don't care how long he's been with the industry; a clueless position is still a clueless one.

3) Nobody wants his job, just that he either actually knows what he's talking about or shut up. Going by most of his attempts to appeal to the West the former hasn't happened yet.

If some Western developer had said that the West needs to learn from Japan how to polish games, make characters or whatever - no one would get upset.

You would; and, assuming everything about this gen would be the same other than his position on this matter, I would too.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

'Cept Miyamoto knows what he's doing and he went down on Retro until they did things right.

0_o

 

[Blackace]

'Cept Miyamoto knows what he's doing and he went down on Retro until they did things right.

um ok?

Hey, he has no problem directly blasting the company's management. What's stopping him now?

He is trying to hype up their future projects.

Like when he claimed the biggest problem with LP2 was the lack of an icy planet....

As far as what people know the series for not having one most likely was a desgin mistake... but it is far from the biggest

1) Literally everything outside the basic idea that Japan needs to expand was pretty dumb. Though I guess you are technically right in that "some" can also mean "most".

2) I don't care how long he's been with the industry; a clueless position is still a clueless one.

3) Nobody wants his job, just that he either actually knows what he's talking about or shut up. Going by most of his attempts to appeal to the West the former hasn't happened yet.

1) no I meant some and don't try to put words in my mouth because it doesn't make you look smarter..

2) How can you discredit what he has seen. He had seen a time when console gaming was policed by Nintendo and how Japanese companies could work then to now.. If you want to ignore that go ahead

3) Most people in the industry would kill for his job. CAPCOM has given him the ability to look west, and the ability to make or recreate IPs... who wouldn't want that job?

You would; and, assuming everything about this gen would be the same other than his position on this matter, I would too.

I assume it would be the same folks saying "I don't want fake looking Japanese characters!"

 

[Fimbulvetr]

He is trying to hype up their future projects.

He's sure doing a great job at that.

As far as what people know the series for not having one most likely was a desgin mistake... but it is far from the biggest

That.... was kinda my point.

1) no I meant some and don't try to put words in my mouth because it doesn't make you look smarter..

I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I was making a joke based off the fact that "some" has multiple meanings, one of which is pretty much equivalent to "most". It was entirely harmless.

2) How can you discredit what he has seen. He had seen a time when console gaming was policed by Nintendo and how Japanese companies could work then to now.. If you want to ignore that go ahead

I can certainly look at some of his current views and say he probably doesn't know what he's talking about(again, Japan should globalize but it's pretty clear by "RE5 sold well because of a white guy who speaks English" that Inafune doesn't quite get it).

3) Most people in the industry would kill for his job. CAPCOM has given him the ability to look west, and the ability to make or recreate IPs... who wouldn't want that job?

That right there was just bad wording on my part.

I assume it would be the same folks saying "I don't want fake looking Japanese characters!"

I guess? Sure.

 

[cvxfreak]

I'm betting Capcom's westernization strategy fails because Inafune is looking at it completely the wrong way. He's right that there are some fundamental flaws in the Japanese development system that can use an overhaul, but every industry in the world has that, so it's not like Japan stands alone in that sense. Inafune strikes me as the great Western pretender with absolutely zero substance to back his position up.

If (when?) this strategy fails, they'll have Monster Hunter 4 and Biohazard 6 bail them out. What a pity.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

0_o

Sexiest, business meetings, ever.

 

[TAJ]

If some Western developer had said that the West needs to learn from Japan how to polish games, make characters or whatever - no one would get upset.

People would argue against that point, but this thread is further proof that nobody can beat weeaboos when it comes to meltdowns.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

People would argue against that point, but this thread is further proof that nobody can beat weeaboos when it comes to meltdowns.

Horse shit.

If it was announced that the next Mass Effect was being developed by Compile Heart and they revealed Shepherd with belt buckles and zippers and Greg Zeschuk gave multiple interviews about how the games industry in the West was dead, all the Western games around him were awful, and the only hope was to look to Japanese influence to save the day, and then proceeded to go on about how Ratchet & Clank was successful in Japan because Ratchet had bushy black eyebrows added, fans of Western games would have posted 'fucking weeaboo' so many times by now it would have broken the internet. And I'd be right there with those fans calling him a fool.

But hey, I guess if you can just try to discredit the other side of the argument with moronic stereotypes, it makes it easier to cover up the fact that you can't make a decent argument of your own.

 

[Wallach]

People would argue against that point, but this thread is further proof that nobody can beat weeaboos when it comes to meltdowns.

Haha, the fuck are you talking about?

Wait until Tali gets killed at the start of ME3 or something. You will learn the meaning of "meltdown".

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Wait until Tali gets killed at the start of ME3 or something. You will learn the meaning of "meltdown".

Umm, what?

 

[Wallach]

Umm, what?

The BioWare forums.

 

[AwesomeSyrup]

Japanese games would be better if they quit trying to "appeal to western audiences."

Make games they way you've always made them and let western devs make games their way.

 

[Blackace]

Horse shit.

If it was announced that the next Mass Effect was being developed by Compile Heart and they revealed Shepherd with belt buckles and zippers and Greg Zeschuk gave multiple interviews about how the games industry in the West was dead, all the Western games around him were awful, and the only hope was to look to Japanese influence to save the day, and then proceeded to go on about how Ratchet & Clank was successful in Japan because Ratchet had bushy black eyebrows added, fans of Western games would have posted 'fucking weeaboo' so many times by now it would have broken the internet. And I'd be right there with those fans calling him a fool.

But hey, I guess if you can just try to discredit the other side of the argument with moronic stereotypes, it makes it easier to cover up the fact that you can't make a decent argument of your own.

it is different when you change a franchise, it makes fans upset.. but say have Bioware make a Sonic game and I am sure the reactions wouldn't be so bad; if the game sucked...

 

[Curufinwe]

Gears is clearly better than Vanquish.. But that doesn't make Western games better than Japanese games by default.

Vanquish isn't out yet so that's a farcical statement.

 

[Blackace]

Vanquish isn't out yet so that's a farcical statement.

not really...from what I played Vanquish is not as good as Gears

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

it is different when you change a franchise, it makes fans upset.. but say have Bioware make a Sonic game and I am sure the reactions wouldn't be so bad; if the game sucked...

Generally speaking, handing a spin-off of a tarnished franchise with a crappy developer over to a well-liked developer is going to meet with better reactions, to be sure. But that's not an equivalent situation to what happened here.

I'm not sure what your point is here. That if Inafune had actually gone about his ambitions in a good way, people would react better? I don't think that point is controversial and I for one will agree with it entirely.

 

[Azure J]

Sexiest, business meetings, ever.

Suddenly, table flipping has a whole new meaning...

And I'm all up for that western dev saying "west needs to be more like the east" idea. We need the opposite spin on things to really get the full picture and light this party up.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

The BioWare forums.

Oh right, that.

Vanquish isn't out yet so that's a farcical statement.

He played the demo and didn't like it.

I did, I also like the gears series but whatever. I'm more waiting to see how the mainstream reacts to it(though I'm guessing it'll get a lot of "what a rip-off, will not buy" regardless of how good it is or how it's received by reviewers :/).

 

[Curufinwe]

He didn't say he didn't like it. He said a game which has been out for years is "clearly better" than a game for which only a 15 minute demo is currently available. That's farcical, no matter how much you or he try to justify it or backpedal.

It's like saying Killzone 3 is clearly better than Halo Reach based on playing 15 minutes of Killzone 3 at a game show.

 

[Wallach]

How are they advertising Vanquish exactly? That seems like it would be the biggest problem. It has no name recognition, and if they're only advertising in game magazines then the joke's going to be on them.

 

[Blackace]

I'm not sure what your point is here. That if Inafune had actually gone about his ambitions in a good way, people would react better? I don't think that point is controversial and I for one will agree with it entirely.

mostly that he wasn't very far off based with the truth in a lot of his points and omg he should be fired is knee jerk bs..

 

[Blackace]

He didn't say he didn't like it. He said a game which has been out for years is "clearly better" than a game for which only a 15 minute demo is currently available. That's farcical, no matter how much you or he try to justify it or backpedal.

It's like saying Killzone 3 is clearly better than Halo Reach based on playing 15 minutes of Killzone 3 at a game show.

demos are there to form an opinion.. the core gameplay isn't going to change from here to release. So imo Gears is a better game. Maybe it will have some super killer levels. But doesn't change the gameplay isn't as good as Gears.. no backpedalling here..

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

mostly that he wasn't very far off based with the truth in a lot of his points and omg he should be fired is knee jerk bs..

That he should be fired is certainly knee-jerk BS, but I don't think it's fair to say that only Japanese game fans would react in that way.

And I think he couldn't be farther from the truth in *most* of his points in that interview, aside from his main point which, hey, I'm totally down with. But you and I obviously don't see eye-to-eye on that so there's not really a lot of point going in circles again.

 

[Blackace]

That he should be fired is certainly knee-jerk BS, but I don't think it's fair to say that only Japanese game fans would react in that way.

And I think he couldn't be farther from the truth in *most* of his points in that interview, aside from his main point which, hey, I'm totally down with. But you and I obviously don't see eye-to-eye on that so there's not really a lot of point going in circles again.

Hey it's all good! We still bros!

 

[Fimbulvetr]

demos are there to form an opinion.. the core gameplay isn't going to change from here to release. So imo Gears is a better game. Maybe it will have some super killer levels. But doesn't change the gameplay isn't as good as Gears.. no backpedalling here..

So, moving a bit away from the topic at hand, what didn't you like about it?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Hey it's all good! We still bros!

For sure, man.

Debate is what makes the boards interesting.

 

[Technosteve]

japan needs to make games like Stalker

 

[HK-47]

japan needs to make games like Stalker

America needs to make games like Stalker. Canada and Britain, too. They all wish they made godlike games like Ukrainians do.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

japan needs to make games like Stalker

How convenient; I just tried this today at a friend's house.

I only got to try the first mission, but pretty good though.


Though I'm afraid that the game will own my soul with all the lootan.

 

[El Sloth]

America needs to make games like Stalker. Canada and Britain, too. They all wish they made godlike games like Ukrainians do.

Only godlike if they're less buggy.

 

[HK-47]

Only godlike if they're less buggy.

Bugs arent too much of a concern due to the incredible mod community.

 

[Dennis]

Only godlike if they're less buggy.

I never encuntered a single bug when playing Stalker. But of course that was after several patches and the Complete mod.

And I still dn't see why peple are getting so upset abut Inafune. Smaller japanese developers or those focusing on handhelds can probaly get away with a very japanese-centric approach, but Capcom with its level of ambition have to try and make games that appeals very globally. Could he have phrased it better? Sure. But the 'insulting japanese honor' kind of response he has gotten, seems silly to me.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I never encuntered a single bug when playing Stalker. But of course that was after several patches and the Complete mod.

And I still dn't see why peple are getting so upset abut Inafune. Smaller japanese developers or those focusing on handhelds can probaly get away with a very japanese-centric approach, but Capcom with its level of ambition have to try and make games that appeals very globally. Could he have phrased it better? Sure. But the 'insulting japanese honor' kind of response he has gotten, seems silly to me.

There's been very little of that kind of response, except for joking around. The guy saying he should be fired, sure. Give him hell. But most of the people upset with his comments aren't going about it any differently than the way you phrased your disappointment in the thread about SSF4 PC.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

But the 'insulting japanese honor' kind of response he has gotten, seems silly to me.

I didn't think revisionist history was possible after only a day or two.

 

[Dennis]

I didn't think revisionist history was possible after only a day or two.

A day or two? Defending 'Japanese Honor' is a recurring theme in all of the West vs. Japan threads on GAF. And we get a lot of those.

Many older console gamers in the US grew up on mainly japanese games. I wonder how the recent dominance of games like Halo, CoD, Uncharted etc., will influence the younger generations. Will they care about japanese games at all?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

A day or two? Defending 'Japanese Honor' is a recurring theme in all of the West vs. Japan threads on GAF. And we get a lot of those.

How are you defining "defending Japanese Honor"? Is that just where you sort everyone who likes Japanese games?

See, this is the kind of thing that pisses me off. Having a preference for Japanese games and saying so means you are a weeaboo who is defending Japanese honour, while having a preference for Western games and saying so is super-duper normal and merely making statements in a healthy, regular way.

You wear your bias on the sleeve the same way any of us do. But you act like you're better, and it really makes it hard to try to have a reasonable discussion with you.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

A day or two? Defending 'Japanese Honor' is a recurring theme in all of the West vs. Japan threads on GAF. And we get a lot of those.

Ah, so you're redefining history from a few weeks back too?

Okay then.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Many older console gamers in the US grew up on mainly japanese games. I wonder how the recent dominance of games like Halo, CoD, Uncharted etc., will influence the younger generations. Will they care about japanese games at all?

The uh, younger gamers who are still growing up on Nintendo games?

 

[Dennis]

How are you defining "defending Japanese Honor"? Is that just where you sort everyone who likes Japanese games?

See, this is the kind of thing that pisses me off. Having a preference for Japanese games and saying so means you are a weeaboo who is defending Japanese honour, while having a preference for Western games and saying so is super-duper normal and merely making statements in a healthy, regular way.

You wear your bias on the sleeve the same way any of us do. But you act like you're better, and it really makes it hard to try to have a reasonable discussion with you.

I am refering to what I perceive of as much greater degree of anger leveled at those who critize the state of japanese gaming as opposed to those who critize aspects of contemporary western games.

Like many others have said, I used to play a lot more japanese games before than I do know. I don't see how I am biased. I want to keep Japan, and not just Nintendo, relevant in a big way in the future and so does Inafune. For that to hapen change is necessary.

 

[Dennis]

Ah, so you're redefining history from a few weeks back too?

Okay then.

:lol I suspect you know thats not quite what I meant.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I am refering to what I perceive of as much greater degree of anger leveled at those who critize the state of japanese gaming as opposed to those who critize aspects of contempory western games.

Like many others have said, I used to play a lot more japanese games before than I do know. I don't see how I am biased. I want to keep Japan, and not just Nintendo, relevant in a big way in the future and so does Inafune. For that to hapen change is necessary.

Maybe you don't think you're biased. But let me tell you, you've had nothing but a hostile attitude towards the Japanese game industry for as long as I've remembered your name around here. Not a "I want to see it get better" attitude. A "that shit sucks and you guys are a bunch of dumb fucking weeaboos if you like it" attitude.

I dunno, it's kind of a shame.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I am refering to what I perceive of as much greater degree of anger leveled at those who critize the state of japanese gaming as opposed to those who critize aspects of contempory western games.

Like many others have said, I used to play a lot more japanese games before than I do know. I don't see how I am biased. I want to keep Japan, and not just Nintendo, relevant in a big way in the future and so does Inafune. For that to hapen change is necessary.

You know I have said in this very thread that I support the idea of Japanese globalization, but that Inafune doesn't even know what that means.

He doesn't even acknowledge that maybe RE5 sold well because it was the sequel to one of the greatest games from last gen; a game that inspired stuff like Gears of War.

Oh wait no; a white guy who has been in the series from the very beginning speaking a language he's always spoken.

Who knows though; maybe talking about Kamiya and Mikami causes him physical pain or something.




By the way, I love many Japanese and Western games this gen; you only seem to like the western ones. My avatar is a parody of a Japanese game that I hate. Doesn't that make me less biased?