on 32bit Windows 10, yes.
on 64 bit Windows 10, you need to have the Pro version to run a VM or use a free virtual machine from the internet to run a 16 bit or 32 bit windows.
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iOS 11 is 64-bit only - 32-bit apps no longer work (i.e. some games)
- Thread starter Vashetti
- Start date
on 32bit Windows 10, yes.
on 64 bit Windows 10, you need to have the Pro version to run a VM or use a free virtual machine from the internet to run a 16 bit or 32 bit windows.
Quadraphonic
Member
An operating system is an operating system. iOS runs on devices that power untold amounts of businesses. The fact that Apple regularly breaks is not something to commend them over or ignore.
Huh, what are they breaking?
Why is there no need for compatibility on phones?
None of this is really important.
None of what?
These older buggy, forgotten apps.
In a few months no one is giving any of this a second thought.
The few of us that even realize it, that is.
I actually am preserving some in the same way I still have an old PC just for miniDV imports and editing, by keeping a device on an earlier iOS version. (8.2)
I just realize that in the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Businesses which extensively use iOS but cannot keep their sw up-to-date are asking for trouble.
Apple are in no shape or form obliged to support 32-bit apps ad infinitum. Whether the transition period was sufficient is a different matter.
Explains why you're defending this if you think these games don't matter at all. If you have any interest in game preservation - which you allegedly do - a platform holder rendering so many games, regardless of whether they're buggy and old which you have helpfully pointed out a number of times, obsolete is indefensible.
It's not a forced update and the games aren't being delisted from older devices (until the publishers close up that is).
Preserve away.
Edit: I don't mean to sound like a jerk. Sorry about that.
I'm surprised they got away with removal of the headphone jack with relative ease. This is nothing compared to that as far as customer impact.
Wowfunhappy
Member
Apple updates are barely optional. Until you agree to update, you're endlessly pestered with notifications that a new version is available. Not to mention all the tech media constantly telling everyone that their livelihoods will be ruined if they don't have the latest security patches.
And once a device is updated, it can never be rolled back. Let's say that five years from now, I want to buy a good-condition iPhone 7 running iOS 10. Will that be an easy device to track down? I don't know where I'd even begin looking.
Now, I doubt I would have any trouble finding an iPhone 5 running iOS 10, since that's the last update the 5 will ever receive. Unfortunately, the final update for a given iPhone or iPad usually leaves the device in a terribly slow and awful state, includingto an extentgame performance. If I bought an iPhone 5, I'd want it to be running iOS 8 or 9. For an iPhone 4, I wouldn't want anything newer than iOS 6.
This isn't about warnings and this isn't about developers. It's about pieces of art and culture getting lost, and Apple not giving us the control we need to stop it from happening.
And y'know what? I don't even really give a damn, because despite the massive explosion in mobile game development, I have played maybe ten iOS titles that I consider truly worthwhile experiences. Apparently most of the public agrees with me, because their primary reaction to Apple obsoleting tens of thousands of titles is "oh well, if a developer can't be bothered to update his or her game, that game probably wasn't worth playing anyway."
This story encompasses everything I hate about the state of the mobile games industry. Good luck to future designers who want easy access to old titles for study and analysis. And if anyone knows a decent way for me to replay Rolando 2, please let me know.
iOS is a platform, not a museum. Preservation doesn't make the top 10,000 list of priorities Apple has when targeting the next version nor should it. The loss of these games sucks, sure, but it was inevitable. This is creating a mass extinction instead of death by attrition but even minor updates inevitably break compatibility with at least a few apps, but sooner or later all abandonware stops working without extraordinary efforts to keep it working. But Apple's focus with iOS is on its future, not its past, and the move to transition it exclusively to ARMv8/AArch64 will make it a better platform going forward.
It's no different from other OS updates on computers that do the same thing. People still manage to play those games on old hardware or via emulation etc.
There has never been a platform which hasn't been made obsolete.
Now that just isn't true.
You get one notification that new iOS version is available and that's it. You will have the red dot on the settings but it won't ask you again about it.
I've been using a device with 8.2 for a couple weeks now and it doesn't bug me about updating.
iOS also does this thing where it occasionally pops up a password screen that looks almost exactly like the regular lock screen, but it has a little message saying that entering your password signifies your agreement to update the OS. If you enter your password, an unattended update is scheduled.
Once it starts appearing, this prompt comes up about once a day until you update.
I've seen that before but only when I've downloaded the update so it's ready to install later.
But you can delete the downloaded update from the storage menu.
I believe deleting that will stop the pop up.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
It is probably known now, but I contacted SoMoGa about the Lunar and Vay iOS apps and they replied saying they are going to update them to 64-bit.
Wowfunhappy
Member
In my experience, it keeps asking.
There are several ways around it—what I've done in the past is subscribe to beta updates for tvOS, which tricks iOS into thinking there are no compatible updates available—but they aren't obvious. Either way, the end result is that there are very few out-of-date iOS devices in circulation.
Other platforms let you downgrade. If a game isn't compatible with Windows 7, I can install XP. I can't install Windows 95, but it would be easy to track down some old hardware to build a (comparatively very fast) Windows 95 machine. You could give me literally any piece of Windows or MS Dos software, and I would be able to get it up and running with relatively little effort.
If iOS wasn't so locked down, none of this would be a problem. But that's not the world we live in, and so it's on Apple take some steps to preserve pieces of our culture. Write a damn emulator or something, or release documentation that would allow others to do so.
thequickandthedead
Member
Was SMT ever updated?
I need to know this...
Not all platforms. Intel Macs don't let you use older versions of Mac OS for instance.
There are many cases where to play old games you need old hardware. Older iPhones which won't get iOS 11 will still play these games. Only newer devices won't. This is the same scenario with most gaming hardware, newer devices won't play older stuff, so you keep the old hardware.
If this was a hardware compatibility issue then no one would care, it would be a console type backwards compatibility question. The fact that it's a software one actually makes no practical difference as older iOS devices won't get ios11 and so essentially become the 'previous gen' consoles of the iOS world.
Diablohead
Member
iOS updates have broken games that are under a year old many times because they feel like changing how something works, sure the app developer can update that app but a lot of them dissapear and that cool game or app you played before is now impossible to play unless you keep an old device on an older OS.
slightly related but I can't use twitch tv on my ipod touch 4th gen because it asks for too many new features and it won't allow me to roll back to an older build.
I just checked and no. It's never been updated in fact. Better pester Atlus and/or SEGA to do sountil then, I'm planning to beat this game.
Wowfunhappy
Member
No Mac lets you downgrade past the version it originally shipped with—but updating doesn't forever lock you out of previous versions. That's a very important difference. If I ever need to run Snow Leopard, it will be easy to track down a Snow Leopard compatible computer, because all I'd need to know is the model number. It doesn't matter if the previous owner has upgraded to El Capitan, because I'll always be able to downgrade again.
Now you're right, if I ever needed iOS 10, I could buy an iPhone 5, because iOS 10 is the last version that model will ever receive. But then performance would suck. If you need an older OS, your only option is a device that won't run that OS particularly well. This is completely different from how previous gen consoles work.
There's no good game console analogy, so bare with me, but imagine if Nintendo removed 95% of the DS Lite's and DSi's from circulation? Sure, you could use an OG DS or a blurry 3DS, but is that really the best way to play DS titles? And the DS at least has mostly-decent emulators, whereas iOS does not.
Every phone from the iPhone 5s and up is going to be supported by iOS 11. Same thing for iPads since the iPad Mini 2.
You have to go a long way back to find 32-bit hardware for iOS, and that hardware is not going to run these 32-bit games at their best - especially games like XCOM.
The issue is that they are disabling 32-bit support on processors which can support both 32-bit and 64-bit apps, and there's no way to go back once you've updated.
If the A11 is a 64-bit only CPU, I would have no issue with the iPhone 8 and iPhone X not being able to support 32-bit apps. I'd keep my older devices around for them.
But Apple being Apple, they are removing support from older devices to ensure feature parity.
It's the same thing with the headphone jack. The iPhone 7+ could have supported a headphone jack, but they removed it because they wanted feature parity across all iPhones 7.
Deputy Moonman
Member
You're assuming the developer is even still around lol. Have you seen the turnover in the game industry?
While Apple isn't likely to go anywhere any time soon, small companies that make mobile games come and go all the time. But sure blame the devs for something they worked on years ago with a group of people they may not even be on speaking terms with anymore lol.
Yep. For as much as people want to praise Apple for moving on to a more efficient system, I still think it's a pretty cruddy move to not somehow incorporate a legacy option.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I think in the end the issue is I really don't care. And tbh ensuring legacy support for, in this case, a tiny minority of users who are bothered seems like a lot of work and bloat on the OS. I long for the day that they reset Windows and we can finally be free of the damn registry.
Xcom, and most other games of worth are getting updates. Has anybody named a game or app they're really going to miss as a result of this? Or is it just the 'principle' at stake?
Software used to be hardware based, on floppies or carts or cassettes, so the concept of something vanishing forever was possible, if nobody cared enough to maintain it. The 'app store' model means people are now expecting everything to be archived and available forever. I guess I just don't see that as reasonable.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
When is the date where Apple stopped accepting 32bit games?
Just if I buy one what date would I look for to see if it will work with iOS11?
Just if I buy one what date would I look for to see if it will work with iOS11?
If it had any kind of update or was submitted past say.. March 2015 you're good.
Do you have an iOS device already? Once you're on 11 you won't see apps that are incompatible when browsing the store.
LegendofLex
Member
JamesJoyce1882
Member
Any news about the great Cave shmups?
Any new apps submitted after February 2015 were required to be 64-bit and all app updates after June 1, 2015 were required to be 64-bit. So all apps that have been updated after June 1, 2015 should be fine.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Not on 11
Cool. Good to know.
Are most Square Enix games good? Seems most are around 2016
Yes, that was obvious.
Seems unlikely to happen. One of the main selling points for Windows is its backwards compatibility and its broad range of hardware support. Microsoft supports old Intel Mac hardware better than Apple does. I can run Windows 10 on Macs that stopped receiving MacOS updates years ago.
They're working on virtualizing the registry though. Anything using Centennial (Win32 apps running as UWP) basically has its own self-contained registry, and I would not be surprised if they eventually roll that out so that any time you install an application it will be virtualized - or it will give you the option to try it.
I can't think of the last time the registry has caused problems for me though. (changing hidden settings via the registry ≠ problems caused by the registry)
XCOM is getting an update? That's (good) news to me.
I have about 20 or so games remaining after clearing out everything I didn't really care about (of the apps that I could even still download to this device) which have not received updates - nor are they likely to.
It's a mixture of board games, puzzle games, and roguelikes - a few of which I still actively play. Aside from XCOM, the biggest game is probably Civilization Revolution 2.
People are not asking for indefinite backwards compatibility - though it would be ideal.
The issue here is that perfectly working apps are going to be intentionally broken/removed via a system update that we have little say in.
Either you forego security updates and put up with constant nagging, which no sensible person will do on a primary device, or you will not be able to run apps/games that you have purchased.
All they needed to do was say that the iPhone 8/X and the next iPads would not support 32-bit apps, allowing support to die off as people upgrade devices, instead of removing 32-bit support from 23 devices where those 32-bit apps currently work just fine.
badcrumble
Member
only app I cared about, goodbye 32 bit forever
Wowfunhappy
Member
For me personally? No*—and this was the point I was trying to make in my last post. I often feel like, as someone who considers himself a game enthusiast, I should have an appreciation for the huge boom in mobile gaming, and how many new people has attracted to the medium. But as much as I tell myself to be open minded, I can't make myself see value in basically any mobile titles. There are exceptions, but I could count them on my fingers.
This story—Apple cutting 32bit app compatibility—tells me that no one else really cares about mobile games either. If people were having actually worthwhile and engaging experiences on mobile, there would be more of an outcry over the prospect of losing tens of thousands of games forever.
------------------------
*I would really like to replay Rolando 2. I remember enjoying that game a lot the first time around, and it would be fun to return to now that I've forgotten almost everything. Unfortunately, Rolando 2 was already basically unplayable as of when I last tried it on iOS 8. It technically ran and I was able to play through a couple of levels, but there were graphical glitches everywhere.[/spoiler]
Edit:
In many ways, a system like the iOS app store makes it much easier for something to get lost forever, because it creates a single point of failure. A developer loses the rights to the game's soundtrack? Boom, no one can buy it anymore. Apple decides to delist it? Boom, no one can buy it anymore. With a cartridge, cassette or CD, even though a limited number of copies were made initially, there's usually a used market that enthusiasts can dive into in order to acquire a game.
(Floppies are different in that they deteriorate, although the fact they were easy to copy helps mitigate this somewhat.)
Zippedpinhead
Member
Here we are iOS 11 is in the queue to download.
I just want to pause and say Goodby to the following:
Shin Megami Tensei
Dungeon Raid
Shining force
At least taito gave an update that infinity gene and groovecoaster were sun setting and would never update. They will be missed but at least their developer acknowledged the change.
Goodbye as well to the games removed from the store and replaced with shittier versions
Crystal defenders
Mega man 2
I just want to pause and say Goodby to the following:
Shin Megami Tensei
Dungeon Raid
Shining force
At least taito gave an update that infinity gene and groovecoaster were sun setting and would never update. They will be missed but at least their developer acknowledged the change.
Goodbye as well to the games removed from the store and replaced with shittier versions
Crystal defenders
Mega man 2
Rodney McKay
Member
Peggle Classic is the only 32bit game I care about keeping.
I don't use my iPad Mini 2 that much, so I don't have a real need to update to iOS 11 for quite a while.
I don't use my iPad Mini 2 that much, so I don't have a real need to update to iOS 11 for quite a while.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
For me, it's:
- All Cave shmups,
- All Metal Slug games
- Monkey Island 1 & 2 Remasters (these two have been removed from the app store completely some time ago, and can't even be downloaded to iOS 10 devices anymore)
- Pinball Dreams HD / Pinball Fantasies HD
So about 15 games just on top of my head that seem highly unlikely to be getting an update (in case of MI1/2, there's absolutely no chance)
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