Support NeoGAF

[UnemployedVillain]

Sony has definitely been behind MS in terms of helping players enjoy their PS3 libraries on their current systems, though I do think Digital Foundry showed the amount of work and care that went into getting it running on PS4 (comparatively, MK8D's engine has zero new textures or other visual upgrades beyond the resolution bump). Plus, it's gotten PS4 Pro upgrades.

You do realize MK8 on the Switch literally has new modes and characters, right? I don't know why you're trying to push the idea of a Remaster having remastered graphics as being superior to a port with extra features, simply being a port with extra features. Or ignoring that the Switch version, while not having new textures, has better performance

 

[Kyzer]

That is not way too good to be true. THAT IS THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES SENSE. That is what Steam is. That is what any other digital media content management system is outside of the strangely outdated practices on consoles.

I would even argue it would be long term good for business. It would incentivize hardware upgrades. It would smoothen generational transitions. It would lock down the userbase to your ecosystem. It would remove the huge aversion I have for buying anything digital on Nintendo when I don't have any qualms about buying on Steam or Google play.

Right now Nintendo has to basically win over every single new user from scratch every time they launch a new system. Heck, even in generation upgrades are painful sometimes.

They don't have to make your entire library available all at once, but once a game is available and compatible, you shouldn't have to rebuy it or upgrade it if it's the same exact game. People like collecting things, especially classic things. An ever growing library of Nintendo classics is a dream for many people.

With it's current practices, Nintendo is not realizing the potential of it's amazing library. The VC becomes something risky and unappealing because you don't know what the hell you are buying. Instead, it should be an asset.

Consumers now have certain expectations about how digital content works. You think the average person would gladly pay for digital games on steam when they get a new computer? You think non gamers don't expect their paid apps to transfer to their next generation phones that share the same operating system and digital storefront. Nintendo burning their biggest fans during generational transitions is a horrible business practice.



To me, remasters and upgraded ports are a separate question. When it's the same exact game, there is no "upgrade".



Virtual Console games are not really ports.

Theyre not really ports but Nintendo systems arent steam either. Playing on Nintendo Switch is different than playing on Nintendo Wii. It would be really nice but I would understand a fee

 

[boiled goose]

Theyre not really ports but Nintendo systems arent steam either. Playing on Nintendo Switch is different than playing on Nintendo Wii. It would be really nice but I would understand a fee

If it's the same ROM, but a different emulator then charge a fee for the emulator. Not on a per game basis.

My biggest issue is that there is no clear way to see what content is tied to your account. If I could see all my Nintendo digital content in a clear place, including platform compatibility then at least there is transparency. Right now I don't buy anything digital on Nintendo because I don't know what the hell I am buying.

 

[Dremorak]

Get ready for that $2 upgrade

I would be totally fine with that. Porting isn't free.

 

[boiled goose]

I would be totally fine with that. Porting isn't free.

Again. VC games aren't ports. NES mario Rom on Wii is the same as on WiiU will be the same on Switch and is the same you can play on emulators (hopefully legally) on PC, NES mini, other platforms. It's not a port.

 

[Jacknapes]

I wish

But this is Nintendo we're talking about, so i'm expecting the usual "fees" to get the VC games we've bought on the Wii/WiiU on the Switch.

 

[Aostia]

When you say Sony made it look easy, which bit are you on about? Your are referencing old titles from previous consoles, not indie/specific first party crossbuy, and the ps4 doesnt do what you are suggesting. My ps one classics i bought on ps3 don't work on my ps4. My ps2 classics don't work on my ps4.

Crossbuy was and is great on ps3/vita/ps4, as is the Sony account system, but that doesn't cover what you are talking about. I've rebought ff7, max payne, the warriors and many others because my old purchases are not compatible.

This
People continue mixing the topics and while Nintendo (account) was clearly behind competitors (even if cross save was availabke) in terms of cross gen digital library the passage fromy wii to wiiu was way ahead (available, even for free, or with small fee to upgrade) of competitors

 

[sfried]

Again. VC games aren't ports. NES mario Rom on Wii is the same as on WiiU will be the same on Switch and is the same you can pirate on PC. It's not a port.

The Mario ROM isn't the issue. It's the emulation.

From what I hear Wii U NES emulation is garbage.

 

[Kremzeek]

Nintendo doesn't give their "fans" anything for free.

Of course there won't be cross buy.

 

[boiled goose]

The Mario ROM isn't the issue. It's the emulation.

From what I hear Wii U NES emulation is garbage.

Emulation is a platform level cost. Not a per game cost. "Upgrade" fee per game makes not sense. It just punishes your biggest fans most invested in your platform.

You know how many Wii VC games I bought? Probably close to 100.
Guess how many on WiiU or 3DS?

Spoiler

0.

 

[dock]

"Cross Buy" shouldn't even be a thing.

I don't cross buy for Laptop or Desktop, or my current PC and my next PC.
Or between Ipad and Iphone.

There are still plenty of iPad games that have a separate edition than the iPhone game. Not all iOS games are universal app.

The previous tech is too different, and there's pressure from shareholders to squeeze customers until supply is ample. Don't expect a cross buy. Nintendo want a clean slate.

 

[True Fire]

I'd pay an upgrade fee to keep 3DS Virtual Console purchases tbh. ESPECIALLY Pokémon

 

[boiled goose]

There are still plenty of iPad games that have a separate edition than the iPhone game. Not all iOS games are universal app.

The previous tech is too different, and there's pressure from shareholders to squeeze customers until supply is ample. Don't expect a cross buy. Nintendo want a clean slate.

If it's a separate SKU, separate versions make sense. That is cross buy vs not cross buy.

The VC games are different. They are the same ROM.

If it's emulation, it's the same game.
If it's a port, it's a different version.

I'm ok with different versions not having cross buy. It's a nice bonus, but it's a separate conversation.

 

[Weltall Zero]

People will pay the fees over and over. Nintendo has literally zero incentive to do anything to benefit the consumer.

Having consumers know their VC consoles purchases aren't pretty much void when upgrading is an incentive for consumers to buy them, and Nintendo hopefully wants their games to be bought. I've not bought VC games since the Wii despite owning both a 3DS and a Wii U, for this reason. One would think having many people entirely skip the VC because of this is not beneficial to Nintendo in the long run.

So yes, there is an incentive for them to do so. They just think it's more beneficial for them to keep the current scheme, so whatever floats their boat.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Can you play the Psone, PS2 and PS3 games you bought previous Gen on your PS4? I don't think so... Don't know why you would expect Nintendo to eat the cost involved when porting and testing old content to a new system/architecture.

Letting people upgrade for 2bucks is a pretty good deal all things considered. I would be pissed if had to rebuy content within the Switch console family and generation. So from now on I expect content to have forwards compabilty if the stick with Nvidia SoCs for the next 10years.

 

[Kthulhu]

Get ready to buy all your shit again for the 3rd time ,buddy.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Emulation is a platform level cost. Not a per game cost. "Upgrade" fee per game makes not sense. It just punishes your biggest fans most invested in your platform.

You know how many Wii VC games I bought? Probably close to 100.
Guess how many on WiiU or 3DS?

Spoiler

0.

NOPE. Contrary to belief Nintendo had a separate packaged emulator with each VC games to ensure "perfect emulation" (whatever that is). The NES Mini was the first time they had a platform level emulator and each game was simply a rom. It's the reason they charge for each game and why they can't simply run on other systems. But, like I said, considering they changed this approach with the NES Mini, hopefully they do the same with the Switch. This will obviously only apply going forward though

 

[Plinko]

A couple months ago Laura D speculated there would be an upgrade fee for VC titles purchased on the WIiU

Laura ended up with a horrible track record on the reveal.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I'll die before I pay a VC fee

 

[boiled goose]

Having consumers know their VC consoles purchases aren't pretty much void when upgrading is an incentive for consumers to buy them, and Nintendo hopefully wants their games to be bought. I've not bought VC games since the Wii despite owning both a 3DS and a Wii U, for this reason. One would think having many people entirely skip the VC because of this is not beneficial to Nintendo in the long run.

So yes, there is an incentive for them to do so. They just think it's more beneficial for them to keep the current scheme, so whatever floats their boat.

This.

A reasonable upgrade system could be a good compromise, IF there was a clear way to see all your account tied digital content.

Right now you can't, which makes every digital purchase a huge risk.

Get ready to buy all your shit again for the 3rd time ,buddy.

Didn't pay a cent for wiiu upgrades. Given the disaster that was wiiu, not too many people did either

Switch is looking like it could be a success. Will Nintendo figure out how to keep users locked to their ecosystem or burn them come the gen transition? Stay turned.

 

[Nosgotham]

Get ready for that $2 upgrade

That's perfectly fine for me if they upgrade the emulation to be on par c nes mini.

 

[phantasmic_glaive]

When you say Sony made it look easy, which bit are you on about? Your are referencing old titles from previous consoles, not indie/specific first party crossbuy, and the ps4 doesnt do what you are suggesting. My ps one classics i bought on ps3 don't work on my ps4. My ps2 classics don't work on my ps4.

Crossbuy was and is great on ps3/vita/ps4, as is the Sony account system, but that doesn't cover what you are talking about. I've rebought ff7, max payne, the warriors and many others because my old purchases are not compatible.

Those were never announced as a cross-buy titles tho. It's minuscule, but added features to those titles are probably why they are not Xbuy. Don't get me wrong, I would love it if they were.. but the ones that are cross-buy are great and works as intended.

Cmon man, you know ff7 isn't the ps1 version to begin with.

 

[gogojira]

I think it's more that they're taking a different approach with VC.

 

[Leafhopper]

I would be totally fine with that. Porting isn't free.

You mean running an emulator?

 

[RockmanBN]

They're not getting my money until it transfers from system to system like when I change my Android phone. All my Playstore apps transfer for free.

 

[jonno394]

Those were never announced as a cross-buy titles tho. It's minuscule, but added features to those titles are probably why they are not Xbuy. Don't get me wrong, I would love it if they were.. but the ones that are cross-buy are great and works as intended.

Cmon man, you know ff7 isn't the ps1 version to begin with.

The point i was making though is vc titles are equivalent to ps/ps2 classics and the latter definitely aren't working on my ps4 yet for free.

 

[Sylverstone14]

Cross-buy for VC? Unsure.

Cross-buy in general? Yeah, they had it for Wii U/౩DS games.

 

[MarcoZombieCannon]

Of course not. Anyone with a 3DS or Wii U as well as a Switch has their purchases linked, shares an eShop balance, so could feasibly redownload a Switch version. But Nintendo will add some silly extraneous feature to sell it as a completely new feature or charge an upgrade fee.

Also of note is that our eShop purchases from a 3DS or Wii U were visible on our Nintendo Account pages until the launch of the Switch. Now they are not. So I'm guessing that completely arbitrary move can be their excuse for not allowing crossbuy.

 

[Reallink]

I mean there is some work to port them to any new platform. An upgrade fee is not unreasonable

Porting costs should be offset by new purchases, not arbitrary upgrades fees. If they're forecasting a game won't sell enough new full price units to justify the expense, don't port it.

 

[iBlue]

Dont think so. I was really under the impression that nintendo was gonna give some sort of Discount to the ones who bought their wii u games digitally like let say mario kart 8..

 

[Sword Of Doom]

I'm guessing Mario Galaxy 2 is a typo.

I'm not expecting anything really. People keep buying the games. They'll probably do the upgrade thing since people can link their accounts

 

[polyh3dron]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Thanks for the joke. There's no way Nintendo will ever do this.

Expect a similar VC drip feed like with the Wii U, 3DS and Wii before it.

 

[fernoca]

Main post is missing many stuff though...

-Cross buy was already on Wii U and 3DS. From first party releases like Mario and DK, to third parties like Olli Olli. Not many used it, because...

-Like on PS4 and Xbox, it comes down mostly to the publishers. Not every game released on multiple PlayStation devices was or is cross buy. Some circumvented it for later releases with special editions/re-releases to fall under a new SKU, others just didn't.

Will Switch has offer crossbuy with something? Who knows. The possibility is there, but the extent and when is another thing.

Some seem to mix things also. I always rolled my eyes whenever someone wanted a "real account system" on Nintendo, because it would meant cross purchases.

And as far as VC goes, the most people should expect is a discount...if anything. Since they already did that on Wii U (were you could play the Wii vanilla versions, but that was backward compatibility not cross buy, cross buy was only a discount).

 

[Maintenance]

Oh you sweet summer child. I will gladly eat crow if that happens, since it would benefit me a lot, but it won't.

Some seem to mix things also. I always rolled my eyes whenever someone wanted a "real account system" on Nintendo, because it would meant cross purchases.

No, for some it meant something easy: can I keep my games without having to call anyone if my console is broken / stolen? As far as I know they still haven't implemented remote deactivating / transferring, so the account system is still flawed. You can now at least deactivate within the console, but that means jack shit if it is broken or stolen.

 

[Xbro]

 

[JrBaconCheeseburger]

I am not sure if OP is serious?

We are paying $59.99 for MK8 again just FYI.

 

[Smasher89]

I think they stated in a interview early when mynintendo was introduced, that they changed the "online structure" to work for wii u and more systems forward, I believe we havent seen the fruits of that promise yet (or do we count regionfree for that?)

Sad i cant find the source, it was probably close to the september release of mynintendo.

 

[i-Jest]

Yo bruh bruh, you better pray Nintendo offers upgrades on virtual Console purchases from Wii U and 3DS, assuming plans aren't in the works (non-Switch owner here).

Cross-buy? Nah dude, benevolent Nintendo is not benevolent.

 

[Famassu]

I am not sure if OP is serious?

We are paying $59.99 for MK8 again just FYI.

That's base MK8 + all the digital content released + new content + technical improvements, so it's not JUST "MK8 again". A totally fair asking price for such a content packed expanded port.

 

[WarioFan63]

Nintendo? Cross buy?

Well its happened. Mario vs DK: Tipping Stars is buy one verison get both. There was also a Mahjong game from Nintendo that only came out in Japan that was crossbuy. That's where the mahjong tile costume in Mario Maker is from!

I'm guessing Mario Galaxy 2 is a typo.

No theres a great handful of Wii games that you can buy from the Wii U shop.

 

[AlexFlame116]

I want them to port Harvest Moon 64 and Friends of Mineral Town from the Wii U to the Switch ASAP.

I need my Elli!

 

[Machina]

I'm guessing Mario Galaxy 2 is a typo.

No? I had it, installed, sitting on my Wii U dash

 

[Gxgear]

I think people are suffering from Post-BotW Syndrome.

Not going to happen until Nintendo figures out how to do online accounts properly, which is most likely never.

 

[Occam]

Nintendo has the ability to make its customers repurchase the same ROMs every couple of years until the end of their lives.
It's free money.

The most insulting part of this is perhaps how they curate the hunger by drip-feeding you these ROMs every generation instead of making the entire library available right at the beginning.

 

[AGoodODST]

I like to think this is part of the reason why Nintendo is taking this long to reveal the VC. They're trying to work out a way to make this work effectively. I bought Super Metroid and Mario Galaxy 2 on my Wii U but never got around to playing them much before getting rid of it. I would greatly appreciate not having to buy them again when I know for a fact that they're linked to the same Nintendo Account I have on my Switch. There really isn't any excuse for this. Sony have made it look easy.

It really all comes down to Nintendo's business decisions, and that has been a debate that's been raging for years over them and their games, especially on the VC. It should have started going from Wii to Wii U, all things considered. The fact that it never did is a testament to the bubble that Nintendo used to inhabit, and I say used to because it seems like they're throwing out the old habits and finally taking a few pointers from their competitors.

What you are describing is not cross buy the way Sony uses it so that comment doesn't make much sense.

You are talking about being able to bring previous purchases from one generation to the next, which ironically enough Nintendo is the only one that has allowed this with Wii --> Wii U.

But I doubt this will happen again (nothing like Wii mode this time etc). At best we will pay an upgrade fee for VC purchases.

 

[The Spoony Hou]

Reggie said they are looking into it, so I do believe they are doing just that. I'm hoping they'll offer a $2 upgrade option for games that you own on Wii U or 3DS, or maybe even for free (low chance, but possible).

Maybe free if you have a game both on Wii U and 3DS?

Anyway, an upgrade fee is reasonable enough and puts Nintendo at above Sony levels, at least.

 

[notaskwid]

Cross buy with what.

 

[ricelord]

Lol when pigs fly to the moon, OP.

 

[Zambayoshi]

Nintendo has a monopoly on the games in that they aren't available on any other platform.

Any cross-buy would be welcome, but they are unlikely to do so given the Switch's strong sales.

If sales tank, they might introduce cross-buy as an incentive to Wii-U owners to upgrade.

 

[Sky Chief]

C'mon OP this is Nintendo we're talking about NIN-TEN-DO