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[AHA-Lambda]

No, and as I said in the other thread.

I still don't understand how Destiny is supposed to be an MMO.

It's got a campaign plus competitive and cooperative multiplayer like any other FPS, what else does it have?

The tower is just a lesser PS home, the galaxy we were promised to explore is just a map screen and any time we meet other people outside of our squad it's a fleeting moment akin to Journey.

I'm not saying I haven't enjoyed what I've played but I still feel this game may just amount to alot of chest beating from Bungie.

Given that it hasn't lived up to the promises of its reveal, I do think this has been an exercise in artificial hype almost akin to Titanfall.

 

[Icyflamez96]

But the world isn't shared. It's instanced extensively.

Instanced World Shooter

 

[lyrick]

In that case, Borderlands 2 is an MMO

Borderlands Loot > Destiny loot by a Universe, also I don't remembers Mobs respawning every couple seconds in Borderlands 2.

 

[FStop7]

It's an MMO. Here is my inarguable proof:

http://www.twitch.tv/racelap/b/548621612

 

[PeskyToaster]

It's not an MMO. It definitely doesn't play like any I've played. I think the term "shared world shooter", despite potentially being a lame marketing term, is an accurate term for the game's genre.

 

[imtehman]

if destiny is an mmo it is the most soulless mmo in existence,

 

[Doombacon]

Except real MMOs have the capability to show hundreds of people in the same place even if in practice people are spread out over the game world. Destiny can't show you more people than you would find in a CoD match.

Why is it important to be able to do that though? If it almost never happens anyway why build the game to support that rather than in a way that prevents zones from being completely empty?

 

[Icyflamez96]

And people saying it's not an MMO because it's an FPS are a bit off base. Those two terms aren't opposites. They can exist with each other.

It's not an MMO because it lacks the "Massive" part in the acronym (referring to the number of players who can be together at once)

 

[Blue Volt]

It's a first person shooter where people sometimes show up when you are playing if you're lucky. I saw more random world events and people not in my fireteam in the alpha than I have in the beta so far.

 

[Jackbooted]

I'm going to go with Yes it is an MMO. Nobody has a clear definition of what "Massively" means and Destiny has every single element of an MMO. If I'm playing a lowbie character in WoW and I'm out in the world just solo questing running in to only 2-3 people does that make WoW not an MMO because there are only a few people around? Until someone can definitively claim some sort of "cut-off" point for a game to be Massive then I'm going to call Destiny an MMO.

 

[Robdraggoo]

It's about add much as mmo as journey. You randomly come across people give a little wave get somewhere and part ways or hang out together for awhile. This gave me the same feels as that game did.......except killing things

 

[Conciliator]

I think whatever the less popular opinion is.

I like underdogs

 

[drak_dreamer]

No Barrens chat. Its not an MMO.

 

[K.Sabot]

It's a single player map with the capacity for coop and "mingleplayer" (hate that word) elements taken from games like Journey paired with a 16 player lobby town where you can dance, but not use a chat window or interact with people on a meaningful level.

It really lacks the social elements that MMOs usually have as a standard.

 

[Durante]

Why is it important to be able to do that though? If it almost never happens anyway why build the game to support that rather than in a way that prevents zones from being completely empty?

I don't know what MMOs you have been playing but in those I have been playing (e.g. recently GW2) dozens of players do interact all the time.

The "massively" part of the genre name isn't there just to make it sound better.

 

[Icyflamez96]

I'm going to go with Yes it is an MMO. Nobody has a clear definition of what "Massively" means and Destiny has every single element of an MMO. If I'm playing a lowbie character in WoW and I'm out in the world just solo questing running in to only 2-3 people does that make WoW not an MMO because there are only a few people around? Until someone can definitively claim some sort of "cut-off" point for a game to be Massive then I'm going to call Destiny an MMO.

Massively refers to the number of players. Planetside 2 is an an MMO.


Destiny has many features of a MMORPG. I assume that's what most people mean to refer to when they just say MMO though.

But yeah, destiny isn't an MMO

 

[BigDug13]

Path of Exile is my best example. All of the combat takes place in instanced zones and the only areas shared with all players is the town hubs. It's possible to find other random players in combat if the instance you jumped into was started by someone else.

Nothing really MMO about it other than the "lobby" of town is shared by everyone.

MMO's are defined by PERSISTENCE of the world, like the world is an actual place that all the players interact with. The fact that there is an area that everyone playing the game could meet at (or thousands of people playing on "that same server"). The amount of persistence to the world is important as it's hard to call something an MMO if "town" is the only place where everyone could meet. And I don't even think it's possible to meet all gamers in town....meaning I think town might even be instanced.

There's way too much that is instanced down to smaller slices in Destiny. Almost nothing about it is persistent as a game world. It is "massive" in its sliced instances. It is "multiplayer" in the sense that everyone can join together online on their platform to play. It is "online" in the sense that everything is based on central servers and must be connected to in order to play. But none of it comes together in a cohesive, persistent world where a massive number of players interact. It's sliced down to tiny dimensions of the same world where only a few people can interact with each other in their own dimension.

 

[Pimpwerx]

No, and as I said in the other thread.



Given that it hasn't lived up to the promises of its reveal, I do think this has been an exercise in artificial hype almost akin to Titanfall.

Not sure how this is anything like TF. The hype here is coming from the gamer, not the media. You're reading praise from people like me who never owned any Bungie games, and spent maybe an hour playing Halo or their early Mac shooter combined. I had no interest in the game, jumped on the alpha when I heard it was free, and preordered as a result.

Any hype is real and not marketing. I'm not the only person who feels this way. Just look how many people are playing the beta. Bungie isn't paying them to do it. Artificial hype my eye. PEACE.

 

[Forsaken82]

The only reason Bungie is not advertising it as an MMO is because people make assumptions about the combat system from that genre label that does not hold true for this game.

What exactly are you trying to get across with this statement? That because its an FPS it is being mislabeled as NOT an MMO?

You do realize that MMOs are not tied to hack and slash games correct? Planetside 2 is an MMOFPS. Does Destiny come anywhere even close to reaching that massive scale? The answer is No. It has nothing to do with the type of combat.

 

[Jackbooted]

Massively refers to the number of players. Planetside 2 is an an MMO.


Destiny has many features of a MMORPG. I assume that's what most people mean to refer to when they just say MMO though.

But yeah, destiny isn't an MMO

When I said definition I should have said delineation. Apologies for that.

 

[lyrick]

Not sure how this is anything like TF. The hype here is coming from the gamer, not the media. You're reading praise from people like me who never owned any Bungie games, and spent maybe an hour playing Halo or their early Mac shooter combined. I had no interest in the game, jumped on the alpha when I heard it was free, and preordered as a result.

Any hype is real and not marketing. I'm not the only person who feels this way. Just look how many people are playing the beta. Bungie isn't paying them to do it. Artificial hype my eye. PEACE.

I seen quite a few that have also been dreadfully let down by the Beta.

 

[Tiops]

I'm going to go with Yes it is an MMO. Nobody has a clear definition of what "Massively" means and Destiny has every single element of an MMO. If I'm playing a lowbie character in WoW and I'm out in the world just solo questing running in to only 2-3 people does that make WoW not an MMO because there are only a few people around? Until someone can definitively claim some sort of "cut-off" point for a game to be Massive then I'm going to call Destiny an MMO.

Of course we can't define exactly what massive is, but it gives an idea. 16 is definitely not massive.

 

[Dre_G_Writer]

I could have sworn MMO meant MASSIVELY Multiplayer online.

Massively this game does not have.

It's just a multiplayer online game.

This game does not have tens, to hundreds of players occupying and interacting with one another in the same world space at once.

Even in the tower, no more that 16 people can be in a tower at once, thats like the normal size of a deathmatch lobby.

 

[Jackbooted]

Path of Exile is my best example. All of the combat takes place in instanced zones and the only areas shared with all players is the town hubs. It's possible to find other random players in combat if the instance you jumped into was started by someone else.

Nothing really MMO about it other than the "lobby" of town is shared by everyone.

MMO's are defined by PERSISTENCE of the world, like the world is an actual place that all the players interact with. The fact that there is an area that everyone playing the game could meet at (or thousands of people playing on "that same server"). The amount of persistence to the world is important as it's hard to call something an MMO if "town" is the only place where everyone could meet. And I don't even think it's possible to meet all gamers in town....meaning I think town might even be instanced.

There's way too much that is instanced down to smaller slices in Destiny. Almost nothing about it is persistent as a game world.

There are tons of instanced areas in the open-world of WoW, they introduced it a few years ago to separate people on different legs of a quest so Blizzard could dynamically change the world according to your progress in a quest.

 

[K.Sabot]

Of course we can't define exactly what massive is, but it gives an idea. 16 is definitely not massive.

My 24 player Counterstrike server is an mmo because I think it's massive and I can trade and chat in it.

People try to stretch the term to fit their view.

 

[BigDug13]

I could have sworn MMO meant MASSIVELY Multiplayer online.

Massively this game does not have.

It's just a multiplayer online game.

This game does not have tens, to hundreds of players occupying and interacting with one another in the same world space at once.

Even in the tower, no more that 16 people can be in a tower at once, thats like the normal size of a deathmatch lobby.

Yep, exactly. The Tower is basically an interactive lobby. The entire world is non-persistent and tiny dimensions of areas are created for a few players to be in at a time.

Just because it's possible to bump into another random player or two who are within the same "dimensioned world instance" that you are in, doesn't make it an MMO.

 

[BigDug13]

There are tons of instanced areas in the open-world of WoW, they introduced it a few years ago to separate people on different legs of a quest so Blizzard could dynamically change the world according to your progress in a quest.

And I equally feel that adding more instances and less static persistent content to WoW has stripped part of the MMO away from that game as well.

WoW is much less of an MMO than something like old school EQ where NOTHING in the game world was instanced.

I'm not saying that instancing is bad for a game, just saying for something classified as an "MMO", instancing makes it less of an MMO. So a game built entirely around instancing every single zone, whether the game sucks or is GOTY, I'm just saying it makes not NOT an MMO. And that's not a bad thing. It's only a bad thing if you're going to try to call it an MMO.

 

[border]

I'm going to go with Yes it is an MMO. Nobody has a clear definition of what "Massively" means and Destiny has every single element of an MMO. .

The only feature that binds all MMOs together is a massive, persistent world that is shared between hundreds or thousands of players. Destiny does not have this feature. Crap like loot, skill trees, awful quest design, and XP are not the hallmarks of the MMO - they are just RPG elements.

 

[Ardenyal]

Even MAG was more of an MMO in its scale than Destiny. It lacked the persistence though.

 

[AmaterasuOni]

It has MMO elements, but it's not a traditional MMO. It's like a co-op in an MMO world and this is why I expect that the game moves into more deeper MMO world with some mission hubs and world PvP zones after we get past the alpha/beta starter areas. At least I hope so, because Old Russia feels really dead even though it's supposed to be a "persistent world" like in other MMOs. Old Russia feels like a typical starter zone for new players.

If the full game world is like Old Russia, I have a feeling it gets old quite fast as it's just too static for the MMO(RPG) crowd. I feels too empty.

 

[Requiem]

Most people calling it an MMO probably haven't ever played an MMO and are probably forgetting that the first 'M' in MMO stand for 'Massively'

 

[Netherscourge]

It's an MO, not an MMO. (taking out the "Massively part)

An MMO = thousands of players persistently occupying the same game space.

In Destiny, you got like...12? in one area at one time.

Not sure about the "Tower" hub, but I think that might be 12 too.

Plus, unless I am mistaken, you can only communicate with other people in your own Strike Team and only through headsets. And not everyone uses headsets to begin with.

So the lack of an actively communicating in-game community kinda kills a big social aspect of the game.

I would call it a MO-ARPG.

In fact, I'm not sure I would even call it an RPG.

 

[PodcastFips]

Bungie picked the best elements of an MMO and a FPS and put them together. So it's 50:50 - simple, but amazing.

 

[Diprosalic]

it's most definitely not. Otherwise MK8 is a MMO too.

 

[BigDug13]

It's an MO, not an MMO. (taking out the "Massively part)

An MMO = thousands of players persistently occupying the same game space.

In Destiny, you got like...12? in one area at one time.

Not sure about the "Tower" hub, but I think that might be 12 too.

Plus, unless I am mistaken, you can only communicate with other people in your own Strike Team and only through headsets. And not everyone uses headsets to begin with.

So the lack of an actively communicating in-game community kinda kills a big social aspect of the game.

I would call it a MO-ARPG.

In fact, I'm not sure I would even call it an RPG.

Even better, MOARPS. Multiplayer Online Action Role-Playing Shooter

 

[Forsaken82]

Bungie picked the best elements of an MMO and a FPS and put them together. So it's 50:50 - simple, but amazing.

But they didn't...

The "best elements" you are referring to can be found in ANY online game Co-op/Competitive game made in the last like 10 years regardless of max players.

 

[Yoda]

Going to go against the grain here and say it is more of an MMO than most will give it credit for. MMOs with persistent worlds don't really mean anything nowadays. Lets look at WoW as that's the one I imagine most people can relate too. WoW does have a large exploitable world; but is it intrinsically "persistent" as people apply the term? Almost every zone now is instances in multiple fashions. There are quests which will place you in instance A or B and then there are server clusters which will place in with X, Y ,Z servers instead of R, W, S (random variables for sake of argument). Given the advertised population of these games, outside of launch week, the chances are actually encountering many people in these areas is extremely low in comparison to say Vanilla or TBC. Then there is the fact that after you've "completed" the zones 90% of people literally never leave the shrine/city/hub unless its for a daily (usually a single player experience) or another instance. The game is more of a lobby game itself than a persistent open world game. The only reason I think it is still a persistent world is because of said feature being a carry-over from the original design back when people were accustomed to a more flowing world (not having a form of instant travel between points of interests in most cases). I think Destiny could have had a persistent world if they wanted too but simply opted not too. Today's player has a certain degree of instant gratification they expect, and having to travel a distance to begin an activity simply isn't what the market-demographic Destiny is appealing to wants.

So compare the two after the aforementioned fact and you find them very similar. Character progression is mainly determined by acquiring items. There is a mix of PvP and PvE to progress one's character. Areas are designed for people to be able to interact without any prior knowledge of each-other w/o a lobby. I think Bungie's insistence on the game not being an MMO stems from not wanting the MMO stigma. MMOs get compared to WoW even if they aren't a Themepark MMO and have an expectation of flowing quality content w/o charge. If Destiny marketed itself as an MMO it might receive a less favorable reception than if they had marketed it as a "next-gen FPS" (which is what they are doing).

 

[Netherscourge]

Destiny is a cross between CoD, Halo, BF4, Hellgate: London and Borderlands.

It's basically a loot-driven FPS with Co-op and PvP.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Not sure how this is anything like TF. The hype here is coming from the gamer, not the media. You're reading praise from people like me who never owned any Bungie games, and spent maybe an hour playing Halo or their early Mac shooter combined. I had no interest in the game, jumped on the alpha when I heard it was free, and preordered as a result.

Any hype is real and not marketing. I'm not the only person who feels this way. Just look how many people are playing the beta. Bungie isn't paying them to do it. Artificial hype my eye. PEACE.

As much as I appreciate that, and the beta threads are proof enough of this, I can't look at that Eurogamer beta article from earlier today with a straight face: first console MMO to work? You can see the $500m on screen? Halo 5 is in trouble? Please.

 

[Izayoi]

Shared World Shooter is too specific, and doesn't work for Phantasy Star and Vindictus, both of which feature types of combat other than shooting.

I would call them Cooperative online action RPGs on the part of Vindictus,PSO2,DFO. For destiny I'd call it an online FPS with RPG elements.

We don't need this massive MMO umbrella. More over if you bring in a traditional MMO player to any of those games they would feel had. "Where are my macros in destiny?!"

These games are something different let's put them in their own category.

I also find the term roguelike something stupid too. Call them what they are.

A new category is appropriate, I think.

It's an MMO for people who are afraid to admit to themselves that they're playing an MMO. Deep down you know it to be true. Accept it, and love yourselves again.

:lol

You see that many people in cities, in the world questing, etc.

Raid sizes have little to do with anything. That's instanced content. If the game was nothing but instanced content, it would be like Guild Wars or PSO.

You see them in cities, yes. Very rarely do you see dozens of players at once out on the field outside of the launch window or public events. Hell, even around launch, some areas in GW2 felt completely empty. I see more randoms in Destiny than I did there.

 

[Abinash117]

Of course we can't define exactly what massive is, but it gives an idea. 16 is definitely not massive.

Exactly otherwise nearly every shooter would be a MMO. I think one of the issues is with people comparing aspects of MMORPGs to Destiny and calling Destiny an MMO because sometimes mmos=mmorpgs in some people's eyes. Which is obviously wrong if you think about it.

MMOs nowadays have a vague term because many are calling games like Diablo 3 an mmo or other games like Vindutus and LoL.

Imo Destiny isn't an mmo because there's no central or multiple server(s) everyone plays on , it is missing the massive part, players are matched made and can only interact with players them even in the Tower, and there is very little persistence in the world. It seems to me one of the reasons some people are calling Destiny an mmo is because it shares similar game content of mmos(rpgs) which is makes little sense to me since not every mmo even has dungeons or raids and some single player games have similar content to that of MMOs(rpgs).

 

[Kilrathi]

nope not even close.
Its a lobby based Online FPS with RPG elements in it.

It is more in line with
Guild Wars 1
Diablo
Phantasy Star Online
Phantasy Star Universe
Phantasy Star Online 2

Than it is

Defiance
Tabula Rasa
Planeside
Planetside 2

 

[quickwhips]

No. It has MMO features but isn't an MMO.

What is an MMO feature besides massive amounts of people?

 

[Durante]

You see them in cities, yes. Very rarely do you see dozens of players at once out on the field outside of the launch window or public events.

Play more WvW. Now that's real MMO gameplay.

 

[Kouriozan]

It's an online game but not MMO.
In short, it's a MOFPS.

 

[Icyflamez96]

What is an MMO feature besides massive amounts of people?

Yeah I assume when people say MMO like that, most of the time they are referring to MMORPGs

 

[Gaogaogao]

we need a new name for phantasy star online-ish games

 

[Pimpwerx]

As much as I appreciate that, and the beta threads are proof enough of this, I can't look at that Eurogamer beta article from earlier today with a straight face: first console MMO to work? You can see the $500m on screen? Halo 5 is in trouble? Please.

Gotcha, and agreed. I won't defend hyperbole in journalism.

It isn't so much a case of Defending tr00 Emm Emm Ohhz, as it is wanting to prevent confusion. Especially when the terms are so stark. I mean, most of the things people list that make Destiny an MMO are found in games like Diablo or even Dark Souls.

I fully understand that genre is more complex than terms that simply describe exactly what something is. But with MMO, it has been used for a very, very long time to mean something so extremely obvious and basic as having a shitload of players in the same instance.

And on the other side of it, if we're going to call any game that cribs WoW's progression an MMO, isn't that going to increasingly mean almost every game in every genre? What's the point of even using a label as specific as Massively Multiplayer Online game when it can largely cover almost every major multiplayer game?

There are other games that ape mmo stuff that don't get called MMOs. There's a reason Destiny gets it and other games don't. Destiny is closer, at first blush, than other hybrids before it. We can create subgenres for everything, but then that's not curing any confusion, only creating more. On that note, why the concern for confusion? I tell people it's a fps crossed with an mmo. I then explain the differences to give a better picture. It establishes a starting point close to the actual product, then fine tune the description from there.

I classify games onto a set number of genres, and fps and mmo are the two closest to it. I assume those two genres are familiar to most gamers, so those are the best descriptors. The phrase shared world shooter screams geek who takes himself too seriously. Plus, it doesn't make the ensuing explanation easier. PEACE.

 

[Forsaken82]

we need a new name for phantasy star online-ish games

They are simply called Online Action RPGs/Hack and Slash games.

I like Gearbox's coined term of an Online Shoot and Loot in regards to Borderlands to be honest. I think it fits nicely. It isn't that difficult to simply label Destiny as an Online FPS with Lite RPG elements. It doesn't need a new genre created for it because it isn't a new genre.

 

[JaseMath]

No...but it will consume my life like one.