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Iwata implies he may resign over poor business performance
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
Iwata: The Last Laugh
I think what's frustrating is that, IMO, all Nintendo had to do was follow their traditional model: innovate, then refine. NES -> SNES, 2d graphics, N64 -> Gamecube 3d graphics, Wii -> Super Wii motion controls. The Wii's original promise was somewhat limited by the technology in the Wiimotes not being up to what people thought it should do. Nintendo solved that with Wii Remote Plus. They just needed to make Wii Remote Plus the standard controller for the Super Wii, and then make something easy to develop for and as graphically impressive as, say, $299 retail could have produced (WITHOUT CARING ABOUT HOW MANY WATTS IT USED OR HOW BIG THE CASING IS WTF NINTENDO ARGHHH!!!).
It's a false dichotomy to say Nintendo could either do another gimmick or get into an expensive arms race with Sony or Microsoft that they could never hope to win (never mind that at one point Nintendo was the largest company in Japan by market cap). They could have produced an impressive machine that was capable of easily handling downports from the PS4 and Durango. They didn't.
Your point about the software is also well taken. I've been saying for a long time, I don't think Nintendo themselves fully understood what made the Wii successful, and their failure to provide the kind of software the market was clearly desperate for was stunning.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
It's funny how everybody was calling Iwata's business strategy 'ballsy' in 2005-6, when in hindsight I think most would agree it wasn't ballsy enough. It needed to be more refined and better focused in order to send the intended message across to gamers and developers. It took far too long to accumulate enough quality software to make a meaningful argument in favor motion and gesture controls or to demonstrate some of the benefits of having a lower-tech development environment with quicker turnaround times, and in the mean time the market was flooded with crap by third parties who were just in it for the cash.
And the fact that Wii U is perceived as a change of direction does even more harm to Wii's legacy since it basically allows developers to move on without ever fulfilling the promise of the original concept. 3DS may be perceived more as an incremental update, but the DS was able to build up the software library it needed in order to prove to the market that its core concepts were viable. The Wii never really made it that far before it was essentially killed, and in that sense it was a failure.
But to be fair, lets not forget the bitter reaction of gamers to Nintendo's new direction, and the clamoring for more 3D Zelda, more Metroid Prime, more 3D Mario, when what the console really needed was more Wii Sports and the like.
Karsticles
Member
He cultivated Platinum Games to make two exclusives for the system, gained Monster Hunter 4 as a Nintendo exclusive, funded one of the three best RPGs this last generation, made developer updates free on the console, and is doing DLC how it ought to be done. The man has my endless praises right now. Considering that Bayonetta and Monster Hunter Tri were my favorite two games this last generation, that secured both for Nintendo this coming generation means he's doing more for me than the other two big platforms have thus far.
Plus, he brought us Nintendo Direct and Ask Iwata, two ways to reach out to the fanbase to keep them up to date. He let Sakurai have free reign with Kid Icarus, resulting in what I consider to be the best non-RPG handheld ever made.
I think most people are just upset that he isn't cultivating western developers, but that was never going to happen anyway. People need to get over it. That's not what Nintendo is about. Iwata is cultivating good games, and that makes me happy.
Nintendo is a business. Whether you like what Iwata has done or not is irrelevant. It doesn't change the sales figures.
I think most people are just upset by Nintendo's current offerings on 3DS and Wii U, especially the latter. They just seem to be too focussed on Mario and simple sequels like Animal Crossing, NSMB, or even Wii Fit U.
I'm pretty sure securing Bayonetta 2 and especially Monster Hunter 4 are not irrelevant business moves. XD
This post sums up my feelings about the Wii U, minus the bolded. I'm really only sad that the launch window titles just did not work out. It's really infuriating when you purchase a system for a specific reason only for those reasons to deteriorate week after week.
Nintendo got Monster Hunter because it threatened their handheld dominance. Monster Hunter single-handedly made the PSP a serious competitor to the DS (in Japan). It wasn't a gesture of goodwill toward gamers. It was, again, solely about protecting their product (in one particular region - more on that later).
Bayonetta may be a good title, but it wasn't picked up for a sequel by anyone except for Nintendo for a reason. It's not going to move a lot of units.
Nintendo is "about" selling hardware and software across the globe. Japan is their SMALLEST market. To the extent they produce stuff that is quirkily Japanese, they're focusing on their smallest potential for profit. Cultivating developers outside of Japan is absolutely the job of Nintendo. They're terrible at that. They don't have to be - Sony, another Japanese console maker, managed to do a pretty great job at it.
Would people still call it a drought, if Nintendo had only been producing Wii Tennis, Wii Bowling, Wii Brain, Wii Cooking, etc. etc. etc.? I don't know, but you're right, they sure would have bitched.
This is pretty much exactly how I feel about the whole Wii U situation right now, but we're still only what? Five months in? I still don't like to judge until the first Christmas after launch, but that's just me.
I think the problem for the Wii beyond 2009 was just lack of software. If Nintendo had kept the damn thing alive with new software in 2010 and 2011, maybe the idea of the Wii would still be alive to make people notice the Wii U. I don't care how weak the hardware is, if it can still get good software people will still give a shit. I think it should've had at least one more Wii Sports or Wii Fit-like hit.
These are good points too. A big part of the problem is that no one could really advance the idea of motion controls beyond Wii Sports Plus. The sword mechanic didn't really get mastered until very late-on with Red Steel 2 and Skyward Sword.
However, I'm not sure if Nintendo could have convinced 3rd parties (at least western ones) to really get in on the idea of the Wii if they tried. A few tried -- you had things like Just Dance and EA Sports Active, but by and large 3rd parties weren't gonna veer that far off from what they were already used to making. The problem of the Wii is that it required developers to rethink their game ideas from the drawing board on up, something they weren't prepared to do. A lot of them probably paid for it with their jobs and businesses (at least by making bigger and bigger action games that had no chance of selling enough to justify their huge budgets).
I think a central problem here is that Nintendo itself is ideologically and philosophically opposed to most other companies in this industry, especially those the west.
That might have worked, especially since they'd JUST figured out sword fighting with the Wii Remote.
In that respect, you could look at the Wii as the sort of N64/PS1 era of motion controls. Most 3D games on those console have downright awkward controls compared to today's games. But once again like I noted above, I don't think most developers were really willing to support motion controls. They were too different. Compared to that, the GamePad looks like an easier pill to swallow. I honestly don't understand why so many people hate it.
They still need to. The business of console games is increasingly becoming an American's game. Plus, so much of their money comes from overseas markets right now that they probably need to have more content on their consoles targeting those markets. It's nice when you can just have third party support come to your console with those games, but when that doesn't happen Nintendo needs to find a way to make it happen.
Yeah I know their internal games have true international appeal. That's great, but it still isn't enough to hold up a whole game platform. It sucks but that's kind of how it is.
You didn't say much of anything to be fair :/
Grampa Simpson
Banned
Iwata: (laughs)
Exactly
This is pretty much the best explanation for the entire situation. The ideology of Nintendo is diametrically opposed to that of the typical western developer. This is the same for me as well. With the exception of a few things like Portal and Starcraft (which I can play on my PC), 90% of the games released by 3rd party western developers these days do not interest me in the least.
The problem is that Nintendo seems to be out of step with the most powerful counter cultures to big budget western console development as well, which are the Steam style PC published games and the App Store style iOS/Android games.
Nintendo is the Cheese.
Shadow Hog
Member
They are the best character in the show, better than the bologna and the salami combined?
If only he were purely the head of the portable part of Nintendo operations.
Hero of Legend
Member
Well I was going for They Stand Alone. But Ok.
A Sentient Keyboard
Member
Who would host Nintendo Direct
Get Shibata to host all Directs. That guy is great!
Dr. Zoidberg
Member
I honestly don't know if Iwata is the primary cause of Nintendo's misfortunes or not, but often people don't take time to think about all the factors in these situations. I've noticed in sports that when a team has a particularly bad year, you always start hearing cries of "Fire the Coach!" even when the problem was a lack of available talent or injuries. The leader always takes the blame for what happens under his watch, even when it is beyond his control.
SolarPowered
Member
It's bad news for Iwata if the factors that led to Wii U's current situation have been out of his control since 2008 when they started making the Wii U.
Nintendo didn't get MH. Capcom decided it because they want to sell MH outside Japan.
MHF is still alive in 360 and look at the new MH online in China. Where is Nintendo? People are complaining less third party support for Nintendo. But when third party releases their game for Nintendo system, they also complain about it.
MHF is still alive in 360 and look at the new MH online in China. Where is Nintendo? People are complaining less third party support for Nintendo. But when third party releases their game for Nintendo system, they also complain about it.
Dr. Zoidberg
Member
Sorry, I wasn't trying to comment on Iwata's role in Nintendo's misfortunes, I'm sure he does deserve some blame. I was simply giving the poster I replied to a parallel where ordinary people want to "throw the bum out" even when they haven't really thought about the causes of an organization's failure. "Anybody would be better than this guy" seems to be the primary response from fans in Sports when a team has had a particularly bad year.
To put things into perspective the smartphone market barely existed in 2008. It's peaking now. The idea of the modern app store would have been created that July. PCs had a bright future, and the modern idea of a tablet didn't exist. You aren't going to claim Iwata had direct control over all of these things are you?
About the most we can say is that he's currently (because this ain't over) missed his foresight 1 of 4 times. Whether that alone should account for removal is I suppose up to people in charge. But I'd say pretty much this whole thread is driven on "what have you done for me lately" syndrome.
You would be very sad if Iwata wouldn't give you a reason to bash Nintendo anymore though. Not that whoever would follow Iwata up would do things differently.
This is all well and good, but Nintendo needs the support of western markets and, more importantly, they WANT that support. So they cannot continue to ignore the realities of what type of games are most popular in the west. There's no having your cake and eating it too, as Iwata is now learning with the Wii U.
Ideally, Nintendo needs to go back to operating like it did in the SNES and N64 eras. NOJ was the heart of Nintendo, pumping out those games that really defined the company. But, to balance that out they had a MUCH stronger NOA that was able to go out and independently secure and fund popular western titles to balance out Nintendo's first and second party offerings.
But Nintendo no longer allows that, and It make no damn sense that Nintendo continues to become MORE Japan-centric at a time when western development is becoming more and more vital to the industry, all the while claiming to want to appeal to that market. No fucking sense.
Iwata must go.
Napalm_Frank
Member
I'd imagine whoever followed Iwata would have to present a plan that... would be pretty much doing things differently.
I'll be incredibly pissed if they hire some Iwata sycophant. I'll be incredibly stoked if its a progressive hire willing to change course.
I want Nintendo to succeed and become a modern company.
Yeah but he's not Satoru Iwata great
Humor me for a second, let's say Iwata does get booted, wht would that mean for current fledgling initiatives like Web Framework and the openness towards indies that Nintendo put into motion? I want these initiatives to keep going and become bigger, but wouldn't a change in corporate have a bigger chance of killing this before it gets anywhere than going with it any further?
This isn't a "leave Iwata alone" in disguise by the way, so don't go there.
This isn't a "leave Iwata alone" in disguise by the way, so don't go there.
These initiatives seem to be primarily led by NoA and NST, even though NCL definitely had to give approval. But I guess that's why we see so many Western eShop announcements.
Probably because these decisions are made in Japan.
Well, there's just as much possiblity of someone else coming in who wants to do that stuff even more, and places a greater priority on it.
Nitnendo's been slow going on adapting to web connectivity. Someone who isn't afraid to jump into this stuff faster may not be a bad thing. But there's always the chance that the next guy could be worse. It's a coin flip.
Ask Iwata
Aquamarine
Member
They're the most Japanese-centric out of any major Japanese gaming company right now.
Their primary audience first and foremost is Japan.
So at the moment they're outsourcing Western development. To that end, they have funded SiNG Party and LEGO City Undercover, with more Western titles to come.
It also helps that Mario is a global brand...that appeals to all territories.
I'm sorry, but this is a poor excuse. It completely disregards the heap of mistakes Iwata has made that are COMPLETELY independent of the success of the mobile industry.
The Wii U is a travesty of a device with no clear focus, terrible marketing, no system selling games, poor 3rd party support that Nintendo continue to not fight for, a price too high for what it is, a laughably shitty OS, and an expensive controller gimmick that's practically DOA.
These are ALL fuckups that Nintendo can blame on nobody but Iwata's poor leadership and complete lack of vision. Not the burgeoning mobile industry, not the resurgence of PC gaming, not the bad economy. Iwata.
Which makes absolutely no sense considering that:
1: Japan is the smallest market.
2: Japan is a handheld-centric market.
3: Japanese games have become a niche in the west.
4: Japan is where Nintendo is located
5. But not sustainable for how their business has grown or where gaming is headed long-term.
Because they're losing money on the Wii U and they need to acknowledge it's existence and turn a profit out of it. Pokemon X & Y and a million Mario titles is great for 3DS but they need to turn the Wii U situation around so investors can see that Iwata can sustain their console business after the Wii's success.
The Wii U is equally part of the equation and the 3DS would have to do beyond gangbusters to both shoulder those losses and give the company a 100 billion yen increase alone. With all the R&D that's being put into some of the Wii U and some of it's bigger games it would be a massive waste for them to ditch it and do even worse with it now.
You are aware that Iwata is not a dictator who makes every decision on his own while the rest of the company does whatever he says? You can probably blame Nintendo's complete management, their board of directors, for what went wrong in the company. That's also why getting rid of Iwata probably wouldn't improve the company's condition all that much if at all. Nintendo doesn't need a scapegoat, they need the realization that their strategy -- especially outside of Japan -- has serious flaws.
Sadly, I think this is correct. Rather than face the music on his completely shitty handling of the Wii U and Nintendo in general, he's going to put everything they company has into the 3DS in an attempt to hide the Wii U in its shadow.
Eh, it's what he did with the 'Cube and GBA.
I expect a lot more joint "3DS and Wii U" language in the near future.
Graphics Horse
Member
I thought the quote was that they could only reach that profit by making Wii U a success. Maybe someone can find it.
JordanN
Banned
Can you explain what Iwata's powers are?
Responsibilities of a CEO said:
Seems very influential to me.
Iwata needs to go, and NOA needs Howard Lincoln again