LightofRohan
Member
Cool, I'll give it a listen soon
I often hear shit like "Well, a used car has wear and tear and doesn't have X service or Y feature..." as if a used copy of a video game somehow has no wear and tear? Sometimes is missing its case? My used DVDs sometimes have little scratches on the surface. Or the box is dirty and scuffed. But apparently this isn't true in the magic world of video games, who defy the laws of entropy.
I think digital distribution should make everyone happy*. Pubs/Devs don't need to worry about used game sales, and customers don't mind because the price is lower**.
*except Gamestop
**assuming the prices actually are lower.
First off, all the makers of those products wish their was no second hand market. You think the auto industry wouldn't love to have the used car market destroyed? It's impossible though, and a used car is nothing like a used game. The game on the disk, assuming it's not scratched, doesn't degrade.. it's the same thing for both the new and used buyer.
The music business hates used sales as well, but it's not a huge problem anymore.. also even back in the day (early to mid 90's) when I bought a shitload of CD's I never bought newer releases used, because they just didn't exist. I bought old releases used, because it was the only way to buy them. People just didn't trade in music the way they do games.
Only in the videogame industry do you see companies fighting tooth and nail to deny consumers ownership of the things they buy. Worse yet, they honestly seem to believe they're entitled to a cut of any secondhand transactions - that somehow, videogames are more deserving than any other product that gets bought and sold secondhand, be it cars, books, clothes, or whatever. As much as I love games, they're not inherently special in that regard.
Those people are in no position to do anything about it, well.. except books, e-books have gone that route to a sense, but the others be it cars, clothes, electronics, etc have no means of stopping second hand sales. Video game devs and publishers DO have a way to control their product, and ultimately they will.
The model is there already with PC's, and it will be there one day with consoles.
No, that's been the fundamental problem with full retail DD games on consoles. Lack of HD space. When your market has from 0 to 320gb of space you don't have a full market to deliver too. Why would publishers want to commit to a full DD system that blocks out a large chunk of their market?
When HD space is no longer an issue (next gen) then that disappears and the full market has the open space to go full DD. Sure there are people without broadband access, but the % of people who own a PC and Console the % is quite high.
We won't see a full blown DD system of Day1 releases this gen, for that reason.
If Digital really is the future then why is it Digital only devices seem to not be selling so well i mean look at the PSPgo it is pretty much a failure and the Vita so far in Japan isnt doing to much better.
I still don't get it.
Why are used games special? Why are they different from, literally, almost every other item on the planet that I can buy and resell? I'm an avid Heroclix player. I buy miniature pieces of plastic that represent Super Heroes. Sometimes I buy them from other players. Sometimes I sell them. I also used to play card games. I bought packs of cards. I then sold some of those cards. I buy comics. I buy books. I buy DVDs. I could go on and on. And you know what? Never once do I think about who I bought it from originally, because it doesn't matter, they have absolutely zero say in what I do with my property.
Why the fuck are games special? This goes for Computer Games too, honestly.
They aren't special and this constant whining from the game industry won't end well. It has been mentioned in this thread how much a pain it has become to buy a new game, that extra code to prove your worthiness gives the edge to used buyers who may choose not to buy the online pass and skip putting a code in. Those buyers will also get the game for cheaper. Some might say the used buyer gets the better experience.
It's really not.Gaming is expensive as shit, and most games aren't even worth the high price-tag.
God bless used games.
They aren't special and this constant whining from the game industry won't end well. It has been mentioned in this thread how much a pain it has become to buy a new game, that extra code to prove your worthiness gives the edge to used buyers who may choose not to buy the online pass and skip putting a code in. Those buyers will also get the game for cheaper. Some might say the used buyer gets the better experience.
I don't have any issue with online passes. I do have issues with the offline content stuff such as in that recent Oblivion like game or Batman, that's bullshit. But considering used gamers aren't supporting the publisher, I don't see why the publisher should support them with hosting games, match making etc.
It's really not.
For what it's worth, agreed my friend.
Or if it bothers them that much they'd most not put the code in at all? Your prediction makes no sense. And I doubt your average consumer cares. I have yet to hear any friend or coworker that plays games complain about online passes or codes. This is why companies will keep doing it. It's like when people thought mp3s would never catch on because the sound quality was so lousy, and such a drop off from what people were used to, only we learned that your average consumer didn't really care about sound quality that much.
It's really not.
$300 gets you a system that should last you 10 years if you'd like it to (and it looks like it easily will this gen).
A game can range from $1 to $60 and could give you years of entertainment if you'd like it to, and $60 is the absolute highest they go under normal circumstances.
Now building muscle cars as a hobby, that's expensive as shit.
Stamp and coin collecting, that's expensive as shit.
Gundam and anime model collecting, that's expensive as shit.
An MMA/boxing gym membership is expensive as shit.
Two tickets to see a movie or even worse, a 3D movie, is expensive as shit.
Gas is expensive as shit.
Lego is expensive as shit.
Diapers are expensive as shit.
Get your priorities straight, gamer.
The average consumer isn't the one who spends so much on games. Gamers do care and if they stop buying then the average consumer isn't enough to keep this bloated industry afloat. Sort of like how the Wii sold well but Wii third party software didn't because casual gamers just don't buy that many games.
Sterling said it best. Both side are governed by dicks.
Yes, they fucking do. THe hardcores and diehards aren't' driving the industry, and you are naive if you believe that.
I can see that you're getting upset.
I'll tell you what, you win.
what exactly is there to be upset about? And how can you see someone is upset by reading words?
I don't even know the other guy, but from reading your last post you seemed upset bro ...
I hear all the time about how ridiculous Steam sales are.Nice edit.
Some of us have extensive collections of games, hence why we say gaming is expensive.
Some of us have built very nice gaming computers ,hence why we say gaming is expensive.
Some of us have very nice headphones, hence why we say gaming is expensive.
Some of us have even bought very nice gaming computers , hence why we say gaming is expensive.
Just because you are content with a $300 dollar console (your words), does not mean everyone else has the same set up.
Sorry you came off extremely pompous, figured I'd reply back with junior might.
I hear all the time about how ridiculous Steam sales are.
Gaming is as cheap or expensive as you want it to be, but don't blame the industry because YOU absolutely HAVE to have the latest and greatest, day one, every time.
I will never understand how anybody can ever say gaming is expensive. I just bought some Japanese Macross game for the PSP for $5 yesterday. I bought Vanquish for $20 on 360 like a year ago. I just pre-ordered Mass Effect 3 for $60 that will last me a couple of months to beat single player, not including replays and then there is the online that I will be sucked into for hours a day, maybe for years to come. Skyrim is too expensive?? Really? I'm 80 hours in and still haven't scratched the surface. Even $10 games that last about 45 minutes like Trouble Witches Neo or well worth the asking price for the incredible replay value they posses.
Time is money, time is life and if a game sucks me into it and demands that I spend my precious and limited time enjoying it and prevents me from blowing my money on something else that I don't need, then its well worth every penny asked for it.
Complain to me that gaming is an expensive hobby and I'll direct you to Micheal's. I hear they have a sale on knitting yarn and shit right now.
Yes, they fucking do. THe hardcores and diehards aren't' driving the industry, and you are naive if you believe that.
I'd wager that to your average consumer, an "online pass" is no different than the "digital copy" that comes with all the DVDs and blu-rays that they buy, and never redeem and end up expiring a year later.
Yes and no. Casuals inflate the numbers of the industry as a whole but hardcore push the niche segments which helps drive the variety we see in games. The hardcore are more likely to have a large library of games per gamer versus the casuals who purchase a handful... it is just that there are alot of casuals.
Because of the finicky nature of casuals, the effect is obvious when a casual title succeeds.
The thing about this interview is stuff like, " the profit margin on new games is slim for gamestop." First of all people need to understand the difference between profit and revenue. Once that is figured out, look at their last fiscal report (actually 2010) in which they kindly separated profits made from new and used games. When you realize they made 1 billion in profit off of new games alone, it really breaks the argument that selling new games alone can't help them keep the doors open.
Yes and no. Casuals inflate the numbers of the industry as a whole but hardcore push the niche segments which helps drive the variety we see in games. The hardcore are more likely to have a large library of games per gamer versus the casuals who purchase a handful... it is just that there are alot of casuals.
Because of the finicky nature of casuals, the effect is obvious when a casual title succeeds.
The thing about this interview is stuff like, " the profit margin on new games is slim for gamestop." First of all people need to understand the difference between profit and revenue. Once that is figured out, look at their last fiscal report (actually 2010) in which they kindly separated profits made from new and used games. When you realize they made 1 billion in profit off of new games alone, it really breaks the argument that selling new games alone can't help them keep the doors open.
Jaffe is right. All this bullshit is just speed bumps on the road to digital distribution. It's going to be a long painful transition, but once it's done we'll have a healthier industry and still get our games.
There is nothing stopping Sony or Microsoft from having daily deals like Steam but they don't and they won't with bigger HDD's. These guys don't want to kill used games so they can give us better deals, they want to kill used games so they can make more money. Now you can say that dropping prices would increase sales and that is true but it isn't something either Microsoft or Sony have embraced, nor do I believe they will when they have bigger HDD's.
Today you can put any HDD into your PS3 can't you? You can upgrade your 360 HDD to 250GB can't you? You can re-download games that you deleted can't you? HDD space isn't the reason the Live Marketplace or PSN aren't throwing deals at consumers.
It's not nonsense... it's brilliant.
They've taken advantage of gamers' often irrational brand loyalty and obsession with identifying with developers and publishers, and idolizing game creators. Star power. Fashion.
When people go out shopping for a used fridge, a used car, or second hand furniture, they're not thinking "should I cheat makers of fine new products out of their hard earned money today?"
No, they're thinking "I can't afford to buy new on this," or "let's see if I can find a good deal on used before I buy new".
It's called bargain hunting for fuck's sake. Forget Gamestop. There's things called yard sales.
But, gamers have psychological triggers that can be manipulated due to how fandom works. The industry is trying really hard right now to sell this new tactic and see if they can't use it to patch over their flawed development funding and business models.
You don't know that, and I've explained why they haven't done a more robust redesign of their stores. The amount of DD available has increased considerably in the last 12 months.
Also, to say they haven't embraced sales is disingenuous to say the least. Things are on sale all the time, often times at pretty good discounts.
Also, why would you think they'd ignore sales, when it shows now that they embrace them..
Sure, I did that.. but do you really think that high of a % of people swapped their HD's in their PS3's? Doubtful.
And by that point they'll be getting 0% of my money.Jaffe is right. All this bullshit is just speed bumps on the road to digital distribution. It's going to be a long painful transition, but once it's done we'll have a healthier industry and still get our games.
It's not that hard to do a few minutes of research on this stuff.You'll have a service industry and not a product based industry. The console makers need to look at Steam and figure this out. Nintendo ties games to your console and when that console dies, it's not easy to get your games transferred. Microsoft will let you transfer your games but only once per year and I think you have to buy a $20 cable to do it. Sony has the best, even though they recently downgraded it. Allowing you to register X number of machines to an account.
And by that point they'll be getting 0% of my money.
Agreed. I think I'll be through with gaming, or at least newer games if they go all digital for consoles.
It's not that hard to do a few minutes of research on this stuff.
You can play your 360 stuff on any console as long as you are logged in to Live or you get one console you can use your stuff on without being logged in and you can transfer that license once a year if you need to. I don't know what the $20 cable is but transferring the license doesn't cost money. It's the best model on consoles and there is no issue with that being the future.
Yeah, I always think about CD keys for PC's. I wonder if devs will eventually just say "fuck it" and bring that over to the consoles. It's worked on the PC for decades.I don't hear PC gamers bitching they can't sell their games, and not every PC game is priced cheaper than consoles.
$300 gets you a system that should last you 10 years if you'd like it to (and it looks like it easily will this gen).
Yeah, I always think about CD keys for PC's. I wonder if devs will eventually just say "fuck it" and bring that over to the consoles. It's worked on the PC for decades.
Though maybe the idea of used console games has become so entrenched that there would be too much of an outcry for that to happen.
Still, I think it'll be either digital distribution or something like CD keys in the future that squashes this whole debate all together.
$350 360, survived 2 years of heavy use. Paid $150 to fix. Survived one year extra.
$600 PS3 Peter Parker with PS2 BC. Heavy use->2 years. Paid $150, survived two weeks. Sent back and got replacement for free for limited warranty. Survived a year. Died.
Got a $300 replacement thanks to someone on GAF being niceand I still need to pay that off...
How does it feel to be living in dreamland where paying as much as I have to get 2-3 years worth of play out of a console in comparison to paying as much for the 360 twenty years ago for a console that continues to work 15+ years later is a sad dismal reality?
So, yes, gaming can be expensive and your console defense is weak. I and many others have had to fork twice the price you've listed just to get a replacement console because said console makers can't make sure they last.
And PC gaming hardware can be just as expensive. The only saving grace there is that they get Steam sales where if they wait they can swoop in like a hawk and get a 6+ month old game for far less than the console counterpart.
Gas is expensive, Diapers are expensive, yeah. But gaming is just as expensive and you can go without. Just like developers can go without our money because they want to charge $60 for a 2-12 hour single player experience and then split the community with online passes and $10-15+ map packs every two-three months for a year.
I buy used games. Why not.
Online Passes have not affected be because I do not sell games and do not buy used, but they bug me because I freaking hate putting in those stupid codes. Come up with a better system please, such as biometric readers or blood extraction devices. That will work.