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[IN&OUT]

Oh snap...he shredded Kinect to pieces!

also he said that he still didn't benchmark PS4/X1 to give honest answer about their specs.

 

[imtehman]

His answer is just PR, he hasn't done enough benchmarking to give a straight-up answer on the difference in power, as the article clearly states.

so is it just PR for him to criticize the kinect?

 

[x3sphere]

From a third-party developer perspective - he's right. You'll get similar looking games on both. At best there will be performance differences, but even then the gap in specs isn't big enough for a game to run 30 frames on X1 and 60 on PS4. First-party titles that fully max out the hardware sure will look impressive though.

 

[Becky]

I have specs. More than that, I will not share. Most of the stuff we know.

I find it amusing that he is making this call when the system aren't even out.

I stick to my words.

The article sheds some light on his pre-emptiveness.

You do not know more than Carmack. Please dont pretend you do. It makes you look foolish.

 

[Satchel]

This is an XB1 hater's worst nightmare.

Yep.

Takuya basically taking on the role of his avatar.

 

[Takuya]

so is it just PR for him to criticize the kinect?

He has to sell games on two platforms; he does not have to support Kinect in those games.

Yep.

Takuya basically taking on the role of his avatar.

I'm not angry, I'm just stating the facts. Read the article, it''s clear enough.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

You do not know more than Carmack. Please dont pretend you do. It makes you look foolish.

Never claimed that. Don't put words in my mouth.

As was noted in the article, his claim has no legs to stand on right now. No more than that.

so is it just PR for him to criticize the kinect?

It's not PR when most people criticize Kinect. He just happens to share some opinions that the mass consumer shares. At least when it comes to the enthusiast gamers.

 

[cyberheater]

As the article states, he hasn't done enough benchmarking to be able to give a real answer. He's just saying that for PR.

Have you actually viewed the live stream. He clearly has devkit for both machines and has run code on them. He is after all working on a multiplatform game for Xbox One and PS4. Although he's not done a deep dive on benchmarking. His vast experience and coding knowledge gives him the confidence to state to a live audience that they are very close in performance.

 

[imtehman]

He has to sell games on two platforms; he does not have to support Kinect in those games.

so why did he criticize the PS3 back in the day and say that the x360 is more powerful even though he was selling games on both those platforms back in the day.

maybe he is bipolar. Or maybe the truth that he is speaking is hard for you to accept

 

[iceatcs]

Of course they are very close compare to Wii U in the scale or even PC too.

So we all know both are different, even John didn't said both are same - but how much different or who has better, will have to wait when both out.

 

[Takuya]

Have you actually viewed the live stream. He clearly has devkit for both machines and has run code on them. He is after all working on a multiplatform game for Xbox One and PS4. Although he's not done a deep dive on benchmarking. His vast experience and coding knowledge gives him the confidence to state to a live audience that they are very close in performance.

Do you know how game engines work? Do you know how the process of developing for two new architectures work? Especially if those two architectures are fairly similar in nature?

His engine isn't optimized in the least for either console, his games won't take full advantage of either until he's able to properly push the hardware, and with the help of benchmarking tools and internal testing, that's how they find the power and then harness it.

so why did he criticize the PS3 back in the day and say that the x360 is more powerful even though he was selling games on both those platforms back in the day.

maybe he is bipolar. Or maybe the truth that he is speaking is hard for you to accept

If I remember correctly, he said the PS3 was more powerful, but a lot more difficult to get the power out of.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Have you actually viewed the live stream. He clearly has devkit for both machines and has run code on them. He is after all working on a multiplatform game for Xbox One and PS4. Although he's not done a deep dive on benchmarking. His vast experience and coding knowledge gives him the confidence to state to a live audience that they are very close in performance.

I give him a lot of credit but he isn't the end all be all when it comes to these types of things. I remember what he said about RAGE and that turned out to be a disappointment visually even on PC. Let's not put the guy on too high a pedestal.

 

[Becky]

His answer is just PR, he hasn't done enough benchmarking to give a straight-up answer on the difference in power, as the article clearly states.



Wrong in? He gave a PR answer, it's not a real comparison of power. Multiplatform games will be "close" at launch, but the difference will widen starting from year 2.

Why year 2? If the PS4 is far more powerful why not day one?

Do you know how game engines work? Do you know how the process of developing for two new architectures work? Especially if those two architectures are fairly similar in nature?

His engine isn't optimized in the least for either console, his games won't take full advantage of either until he's able to properly push the hardware, and with the help of benchmarking tools and internal testing, that's how they find the power and then harness it.

Just sad. The Carmack said they are close. He has both dev kits. He has done benchmarks. He is a genius. You do not have dev kits and have not done benchmarks.

I give him a lot of credit but he isn't the end all be all when it comes to these types of things. I remember what he said about RAGE and that turned out to be a disappointment visually even on PC. Let's not put the guy on too high a pedestal.

He actually is and knows far more than anyone here.

 

[EagleEyes]

I have specs. More than that, I will not share. Most of the stuff we know.

I find it amusing that he is making this call when the system aren't even out.

I stick to my words.

The article sheds some light on his pre-emptiveness.

My goodness. This thread is really gonna bring out the armchair quarterbacks lol.

 

[RedAssedApe]

funny how people are trying to spin again for both sides haha


i would wait until carmack has had more time. are id even developing anything at the moment for next gen consoles? doom 4 perhaps?

 

[Takuya]

Why year 2? If the PS4 is far more powerful why not day one?

Tools?

 

[LiquidMetal14]

My goodness. This thread is really gonna bring out the armchair quarterbacks lol.

Care to criticize what I said because it's hard to take conversation seriously when you get passive aggressive remarks like this. I think it's too early to make the call on how marginal the difference is but on spec alone, it's a disparity.

I agree with both sides of the argument, ironically. I just don't care to get into some type of argument over comments that are baseless and not relevant to the point at hand. I'm not an armchair quarterback. If it goes the same route then I have said enough in this thread. I hope it gets a little back on track.

 

[NIGHT-]

Quite generous of him but I wouldn't say very close.

Because obviously you'd know better than him. Lol

 

[IN&OUT]

I feel stupid when I hear him! Damn he is smart.

 

[cyberheater]

Do you know how game engines work? Do you know how the process of developing for two new architectures work? Especially if those two architectures are fairly similar in nature?

I'll take his word over yours any day.

His engine isn't optimized in the least for either console, his games won't take full advantage of either until he's able to properly push the hardware, and with the help of benchmarking tools and internal testing, that's how they find the power and then harness it.

Really. It must be amazing working for Carmack on his games and being part of his dev team. Which you must do to know all that. Please tell us more.

If I remember correctly, he said the PS3 was more powerful, but a lot more difficult to get the power out of.

He just said in this stream that he thought that the 360 was more powerful.

 

[RedSwirl]

At this point, is anyone expecting them to be different.

I think this gen it's going to come down to

Software (Games/Exclusives) vs. Services

I don't think hardware is the problem. Obviously, the systems are mostly identical in someways but what it's really going to be about is what people care about when they buy each system.

If you want a services dominate system (Apps). Of course the Xbox is a no brainer
If you want a software all about gaming social experience. The PS4.

Though MS also has a head start robust social experience from the 360, now that the playing field is even its now down to what extra's they can bring outside what they have already mastered and they are bringing it, however is it innovative enough if games are evolving to fit those features? I think the Kinect is the answer to that. I like it and it isn't underwhelming, however I feel it's usage will be system based, than gaming based.

This is pretty much what I've been thinking ever since Microsoft's 180. Other than Kinect and the $100 difference, the Xbox One and PS4 are almost identical sales propositions coming out of the gate. Even most of the software between the two is the same.

What's it's really gonna be about is whether you prefer Xbox Live or PlayStation Network. It's basically gonna be like picking between two competing cable companies that offer video games instead of TV programs. That and it's gonna be about what operating system you prefer.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Because obviously you'd know better than him. Lol

Absolutely not. Nor have I ever said that. Next comment like this will go unnoticed.

Take note, I'm not laughing or lashing back out at you because this discussion will go nowhere.

I suggest handling yourself with civility as well instead of resorting to that type of (lol) remark. I find it disrespectful. If you think I'm kidding, come on Steam and I will tell you on voice chat.

 

[BigDug13]

This thread seems to be all about yet another multiplat developer under NDA saying both are pretty much the same.

What this thread should really be discussing is a prominent game developer slamming Kinect.

 

[Kibbles]

Microsoft hasn't showed why Kinect is needed. They mainly have shown voice commands.... Why can't we use a damn Mic to do that?

 

[cyberheater]

I give him a lot of credit but he isn't the end all be all when it comes to these types of things. I remember what he said about RAGE and that turned out to be a disappointment visually even on PC. Let's not put the guy on too high a pedestal.

I don't know how it looked on your PC but it looked amazing on mine. There were times it looked like realtime moving concept art.

 

[USC-fan]

Anyone have a link to the keynote video?

/sarcasm

Not shit....

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Not really surprised he's saying this, as the two platforms really are pretty close. I don't for a second feel it's a matter of simple political correctness either. Even with him admitting that he hasn't performed enough benchmarks on either system, this isn't just some random guy we're talking about here. He knows what he's talking about.

 

[Takuya]

I'll take his word over yours any day.

Really. It must be amazing working for Carmack on his games and being part of his dev team. Which you must do to know all that. Please tell us more.
.

His words: "To be completely honest, I haven't done really rigorous benchmarking on them. Even if I didn't have NDA protection, I couldn't give you a really completely honest answer."

 

[Minions]

Why year 2? If the PS4 is far more powerful why not day one?



Just sad. The Carmack said they are close. He has both dev kits. He has done benchmarks. He is a genius. You do not have dev kits and have not done benchmarks.

quote from op
You can watch the clip from Carmack's keynote above. While he says he hasn't done enough benchmarking to be able to do a straight-up comparison between the PS4 and Xbox One, Carmack says that they're "very close" and that "they're both very good."

I'm sure he has an ideas of what they can do at a minimum, I have high doubts he knows what they can do as a maximum. (Look at Last of Us), end of generation games always look substantially better than anyone thought in the first half of the generation.

 

[Steroyd]

Why year 2? If the PS4 is far more powerful why not day one?

Because the first year of any console is usually riddled with up ports of previous gen games.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I don't know how it looked on your PC but it looked amazing on mine. There were times it looked like realtime moving concept art.

I thought the megatextures were underwhelming.

I should have noted that it looks pretty good on PC but I expected more after some of the stuff he said. I still can't say he delivered on some of the promise there but at least on PC, it was a good game visually.

That's why I'm a little pessimistic when this guy hasn't exhaustively tested both platforms at this early point in their infancy. To that end, I have a lot of respect for him and love hearing him speak.

 

[cyberheater]

His words: "To be completely honest, I haven't done really rigorous benchmarking on them. Even if I didn't have NDA protection, I couldn't give you a really completely honest answer."

Selective cut and paste.

Are you a dev. Give me a straight answer.

 

[blastprocessor]

So Carmack and Kojima are saying they are similar. Predictable given their games are multi platform.

 

[Takuya]

Selective cut and paste.

Are you a dev. Give me a straight answer.

I am a developer, I do not work for his company though.

And I'm not being selective, you're ignoring his exact words, only to make yourself happier about Xbone.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

There are still people who think Microsoft has some secret sauce to make up the 6 additional Compute Units, 100% ROPS etc and the 158% faster memory bandwidth of the PS4?

 

[jaypah]

Aw man, dude kept it sooo real on Kinect! But he gave a standard PR response about the power difference between the 2 consoles. Wait...that makes zero sense.

<3 Carmack. I'm getting a launch PS4 and my best friend is getting a 180. I can't wait to see how it all shakes out.

There are still people who think Microsoft has some secret sauce to make up the 6 additional Compute Units, 100% ROPS etc and the 158% faster memory bandwidth of the PS4?

I don't know, maybe? It'd help if you pointed out the person that you're accusing. Unless you mean Carmack?

 

[Splenivore]

In the grand scheme of things, the Xbox One and PS4 are very close. Carmack has been in this industry long enough to see Moore's law, the assertion that processing power doubles every two years, proven true. Even if the PS4 is fully 50% more powerful than the Xbox One, that's still only a technological gap of roughly one year. Compared to the eight year console generation we're leaving, that's pretty insignificant.

That's not to say the performance gap between the PS4 and Xbox One will be trivial. Developers should be able to squeeze more out of the PS4 hardware. It's just unlikely that anyone but people like us will notice.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

So Carmack and Kojima are saying they are similar. Interesting.

Those 2 know nothing. Just brainless drones.

 

[cyberheater]

I thought the megatextures were underwhelming.

I should have noted that it looks pretty good on PC but I expected more after some of the stuff he said. I still can't say he delivered on some of the promise there but at least on PC, it was a good game visually.

I actually thought the megatexturing looked pretty good. I've not come across a game that looked to have so many different and blended textures. Nothing looked the same.
I just hope he can take that tech and really improve on it.

 

[JABEE]

You do not know more than Carmack. Please dont pretend you do. It makes you look foolish.

No. I think he was saying he knows more about the systems and the way they are running? What is with the antimosity?

 

[AgentP]

Have you actually viewed the live stream. He clearly has devkit for both machines and has run code on them. He is after all working on a multiplatform game for Xbox One and PS4. Although he's not done a deep dive on benchmarking. His vast experience and coding knowledge gives him the confidence to state to a live audience that they are very close in performance.

But of course, close is a subjective term. Of course they are close, they are the same CPU, same GCN tech and come out at the same time.

 

[Becky]

There are still people who think Microsoft has some secret sauce to make up the 6 additional Compute Units, 100% ROPS etc and the 158% faster memory bandwidth of the PS4?

No, we think Carmack knows more than the people here.

 

[Vashetti]

Since Carmack is a PC guy from way, way, back, his opinion sense.

From a PC perspective the two systems look similar:
1) Identical CPU's (8 AMD Jaguar cores)
2) 8 GB of RAM
3) Both use AMD GCN graphics achitecture

We know that there are differences:
1) GDDR5 vs. DDR3 + ESRAM
2) 18 CU GPU vs. 12 CU GPU
3) 32 ROP's vs. 16 ROP's

Once Carmack gets a chance to do actual benchmarking, the differences (or lack there of) will be apparent to him.

His opinion on Kinect though, doesn't bode well for Microsoft's long term plan to bring Kinect to PC's.

Calm down on the apostrophes.

Just sayin'

 

[Klocker]

Since Carmack is a PC guy from way, way, back, his opinion sense.

From a PC perspective the two systems look similar:
1) Identical CPU's (8 AMD Jaguar cores)
2) 8 GB of RAM
3) Both use AMD GCN graphics achitecture

We know that there are differences:
1) GDDR5 vs. DDR3 + ESRAM
2) 18 CU GPU vs. 12 CU GPU
3) 32 ROP's vs. 16 ROP's

Once Carmack gets a chance to do actual benchmarking, the differences (or lack there of) will be apparent to him.

His opinion on Kinect though, doesn't bode well for Microsoft's long term plan to bring Kinect to PC's.

there's the ESRAM too and move engines and a different memory subsystem and a powerful audio chip capable of freeing up CPU usage on Xbox One too so the differences are mitigated in a lot of respects. also similar resources reserved for OS

people are reaching to think PS4 is ahead

 

[BruiserBear]

Why do people keep wanting to have the same argument over and over again?

The PS4 is a good deal more powerful than the XB1. Why can't we all just accept that and move on? I say this as someone who is very likely buying the XB1 first.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I actually thought the megatexturing looked pretty good. I've not come across a game that looked to have so many different and blended textures. Nothing looked the same.
I just hope he can take that tech and really improve on it.

You know something, I played it more when I had an AMD GPU. Maybe I should re-install it since upgrading to SLI 670's.

 

[NIGHT-]

So Carmack and Kojima are saying they are similar. Predictable given their games are multi platform.

So who should we trust? A 1st party dev? Lol. Carmack is never afraid to speak his mind

 

[Gemüsepizza]

No, we think Carmack knows more than the people here.

So he knows about the secret sauce? Cool. Have you seen the actual quote of Carmack above?

 

[GamerTime]

What's it's really gonna be about is whether you prefer Xbox Live or PlayStation Network. It's basically gonna be like picking between two competing cable companies that offer video games instead of TV programs. That and it's gonna be about what operating system you prefer.

I prefer Sony's exclusives, because I've grown very tired of Microsoft's over the past 7+ years. Without Bungie Halo is worse to me. Fable is a joke now, Gears is done/finished, and Forza 5 isn't showing me anything new to get excited over except a new coat of paint. I'd rather have an open World racer.

It's really the future exclusives that pushes me to Sony's side, and that mandatory camera. I don't like being forced to use something I don't want, so even if I want the XBO console for certain future exclusives, I'm not going to buy it to be forced to have a damn camera plugged in.

 

[Takuya]

there's the ESRAM too and move engines and a different memory subsystem and a powerful audio chip capable of freeing up CPU usage on Xbox One too so the differences are mitigated in a lot of respects. also similar resources reserved for OS

people are reaching to think PS4 is ahead

This is one of the funniest things I''ve read/seen since the Xbone reveal.