Lucky Seven
Banned
Ugh, this thread is ugly. Am I'm looking at the defenders primarily for basically belittling everbody.
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Jonathan Blow plays Breath of the Wild
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Member
4 hour tutorial? I knew the Japanese love their tutorials but holy shit.
Ban Puncher
Member
Mocking Jonathon Blow is as easy as shooting Phil Fish in a barrel.
Conkerkid11
Member
This thread's finally convinced me to start Stephen's Sausage Roll. Why do only 2 of my Steam friends have it.
A lot of his comments while playing are bitter remarks even going as far as attacking the game's Metacritic score based on him being bad at the game.
Even the thing about making puzzle games though is that because you made the game, you know the solutions to every puzzle beforehand. Dunno if he's even technically capable of playing puzzle games that aren't his own.
???
A lot of his comments while playing are bitter remarks even going as far as attacking the game's Metacritic score based on him being bad at the game.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
I bought Nioh due to one of Jim's videos.
The Hermit
Member
I get what you say, but when almost all Zelda games post Lttp use it as a template, the definition of "Zelda game" as a formulatic dungeon -> weapon -> dungeon is more accurate.
And personally, the only Zeldas I've never play a lot/finished are precisely 1 and 2.
But yeah, BotW was a return to roots and I can see people missing that room to room puzzle game, because that was what Zelda meant since 1994.
Insert avatar
Its always you Zelda fans that complain about someone being reductive of your beloved game but are in the same breath reductive of others opinion. So the argument is now "he can't play as well as I can so I won't even respect his opinion." How does that make any sense or right? You say hypocrite but your doing the same. He calls it like he sees it, even when it's about other games positive or negative. Dude said SSR was a better game than the Witness. If he was so enthralled by his own work he would NOT say things like the. He made valid criticism. Like the inability to rotate items under magnetism, etc. Things like that are perfectly valid. When the point is the puzzle fighting with controls are a detriment.
The tutorial is as long as you want it to be. Basically the start of the game is wake up -> activate tower -> complete 4 shrines -> get paraglider. Once you do that you can get off the tutorial plateau. If you beeline for those things, even as a first time player, it should take around 30 minutes to an hour. If you wander around the opening plateau and explore it, you could easily spend 10 hours there. It's open so it's really up to you how you complete it, and there's a lot of stuff you can do in the opening area that isn't required. Blow spent a lot of time wandering around, trying things out, and collecting food
Conkerkid11
Member
Because if the negative reviews a game received ended up being backed up by game footage of that critic playing the game poorly and not understanding basic game mechanics, that critic would have significantly less credibility.
I ain't touching this with a bargepole, but I will say that when I play games for fun, I just sit back and enjoy, and when I play them for reference or research or competitive analysis I think, speak and react to them in a totally different and pretty sterile way, that doesn't really reflect how I feel about the game holistically.
That said, Zelda is one of the most broadly impressive games I have ever played. Like, I'd have to dig deep to find a valid objective complaint about it.
That said, Zelda is one of the most broadly impressive games I have ever played. Like, I'd have to dig deep to find a valid objective complaint about it.
Belgian Dude
Member
It's also not really a 'tutorial' in the traditional way: the only things that 'teach you' mechanics are the shrines themselves, right after they give you a tool, and the old man on specific spots all tied to their actions (you'll learn about chopping trees near the trees next to his house, you'll learn about sneaking when he's hunting for boars...).
The Great Plateau's "tutorial" is more of a place for you to get acquainted with the game before being overwhelmed by the entire world, and less of a 'tutorial', so yeah, you shouldn't start out using the Pro mode there haha.
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
I swear, my daughter struggled less in the opening area than he did. She's 8. She actually got her Switch and Zelda on her 8th birthday.
Is this performance art or what.
It is definitely a traditional tutorial. There's even popups that interrupt the game and spell out how to do various actions.
So why ape the 98/100 rhetoric when you can play better than all those reviewers? 98/100 is bull shit going by the posters logic. To be clear numbers don't mean shit to me nor do they sway me one way or the other. I base a game on it's on merits and faults and if it fits MY TASTES. Which is exactly what blow is doing. The thing I find most disgusting is the people on here shitting on others for having differing opinions. No matter how you see it there is no right or wrong here. It's doesn't matter if that 98% was the percentage of people on earth who liked the game. That doesn't make the 2% who didn't like it wrong it makes them the minority nothing more. This is what wrong with the world. Being in the majority doesn't make you right, just means your OPINION aligns with that of others FFS.
Really? It's odd, BotW has made me very confused, because I'm with you where it's one of the most impressive games I've played, and it's potentially my favorite game ever. But there are games I've played that are "perfect" in my eyes. They do exactly what they set out to do, the game doesn't really have any noticeable flaws, it's well-designed and balanced, etc. And with BotW, I have a long list of complaints and improvements I'd make. But despite those flaws, the highs are so high that it gets above my "perfect" games, even though it has these flaws. But I'm just surprised you don't have any complaints at all. Not even higher-leveled versions of enemies essentially becoming damage sponges? The Divine Beasts being short and disappointing? The lack of enemy/boss variety?
Yes that's true
CEJames
Member
lol so true. Amazes me every time.
I mean, he seems pretty competent mechanically. He just keeps overthinking and overanalyzing every simple puzzle where the solution is pretty straight forward. He keeps trying to find lateral thinking ways to solve problems that are really simple, which trips him up. He's thinking as a puzzle designer and not as a typical gamer plowing through an adventure game. He's also making off the cuff remarks during his first impression, and he's not an experienced critic. I don't see why people are taking him so seriously here.
Seems like anyone who has a gripe with Blow has just come in here to do some extreme shitposting, and also defending BOTW. If he bothers you that much then just don't watch.
Seems like anyone who has a gripe with Blow has just come in here to do some extreme shitposting, and also defending BOTW. If he bothers you that much then just don't watch.
I can see that - but I already played it for fun, so all the little niggling issues - like maybe there could be more obvious feedback on how much climbing stamina I have relative to a canyon wall, for example, tend to have meaningful fun experiences tied to them elsewhere. So any nitpicks I had objectively had been softened or eliminated by the holistic experience. Like a Miata. "Too slow, but turns out that's incredibly fun going through the apex of a corner"
MisterR
Member
LOL, isn't that the truth. I'll bet there are a ton of the biggest Zelda fans who have more posts in Horizon threads than they do in Zelda ones.
You can't rely on it too much or you're quickly out of arrows.
That's also the thing because the game early on isn't throwing arrows at you and you're literally scavenging for arrows you're trained in being careful with your bow.
On top of that if you keep dropping headshots you kind of kill monsters quicker than with any other weapons.
So unless you're in an area without any archers around you'll going to end up swimming in bows because by the time you kill an archer you're not finished with the last bow you had.
I really feel like the game should have been more punishing with the bows and a little less so with melee weapons.
Heck even in the way the game is you can still coast the game relying only on melee weapons (pretty much what I did).
I mean, that wasn't what he was doing when he made these tweets:
If he, despite not having actually played one in years, feels warranted enough to say BotW had inflated scores before he'd even touched it how is that judging a game on its merits instead of his personal biases and cynicism? If, before playing The Witness (which I liked quite a bit but found to be too obtuse overall and, even worse, actively discriminatory in places but that's a topic for another thread) I had come on here and said "Jonathon Blow's The Witness? More like Jonathon Blow's The Shitness why is everyone praising it?!" would you expect me to go in looking to judge it on its merits alone?
Still a talented designer but what a fucking lame position to take.
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
As a person that might consider BotW the best game, I can still be critical of it, so it's not like I can't handle criticism. The way the game handles rain and climbing is just awful. AWFUL. The slow climbing and stamina bar aren't great. And weapon/equipment management in the first 20 hours is far from great.
Yup, I just watched a huge chunk of it. He's actually as tedious and as clueless as Makai makes him out to be. Very painful to watch.
TwistedFreeze
Member
Really? Damn, even as someone who absolutely loved the game and considers it the best game this generation by far, there's quite a bit of room for improvement in my eyes, such as having longer thematic dungeons, more interesting and varied side quests and towns, later enemies becoming smarter and more aggressive as opposed to merely tougher, and more options to travel efficiently in the rain
Surprisingly, the biggest things people complain about, like weapon degradation and inventory management, I'm either in love with, the former, or indifferent to, the latter
Thanks for the info. It sounds really unpleasant to watch.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
He reminds me of Phil Fish, you can tell he just wants to dislike it. Maybe because it's japanese, or it's a Nintendo game, or it's popular, or all of the above, who knows...
I think BotW has plenty of flaws and it actually took me a good 20 hours before I started understanding why everyone else was liking it so much. Not that I hated the beginning of the game, it was fine, it just didn't click with me at first. But he's not even trying.
Too bad, Braid is one of my all-time favorite games but Blow himself really doesn't have much to contribute as a commentator on the game industry.
I think BotW has plenty of flaws and it actually took me a good 20 hours before I started understanding why everyone else was liking it so much. Not that I hated the beginning of the game, it was fine, it just didn't click with me at first. But he's not even trying.
Too bad, Braid is one of my all-time favorite games but Blow himself really doesn't have much to contribute as a commentator on the game industry.
He being pretentious is regardless of him playing BotW and criticizing it tho.
Belgian Dude
Member
Oh, there's definitely tutorials IN the great plateau, and it's definitely a (even if big) starting area that serves both as a way to lead you to those tutorials and to get you accustomed to how you'll be traversing the world... but I don't think the Plateau itself is a 'tutorial level' in the traditional sense. (Or at least, in the sense that you can say the 'tutorial' takes a quantifiable amount of time).
You're definitely learning techniques and picking up tidbits throughout your stay there, but it's already game: between these areas you can do whatever you want (inside the game rules, of course), in any order, through a lot of different ways - it's just in a contained area (until you get the four runes) as to not overwhelm you from the get-go.
Tarextherex
Banned
Read my post, I said well known. He already has a history of being a caricature of the insufferable hipster, this has nothing to do about how good he is at games. You start by completely belittling Japanese games in that one conference by criticizing entries from big series that were made more linear/guided to appeal to the West in the first place. Then, when a game with near universal appeal that addresses most of your criticisms comes out, you shitweet about it by saying garbage like "lol people only like it because it's Zelda". The guy even got legit upset at Soulja Boy for making a video of him having fun with the mechanics in Braid because "he didn't understand his vision". Developer or not, his arbitrary, poorly constructed and extremely biased opinions aren't worth anything.
But Zelda never had traditional tutorials. The past games' intros were simply highly scenarized gameplay segments anyways. People love to shit on those yet a bunch of modern games feel like never ending tutorials. While they may spell you out how to do actions and such they still provide much more player agency than most other games/actual tutorials. FYI I think the plateau is the worst Zelda intro of them all but even then this isn't Zelda II levels of obtuse. The game clearly tells you to go to shrines. You mark them, you figure out how to get there, you can do almost anything. BOTW might not quite have that Super Metroid feel of guiding the player or whatever but it's still very functional. Blow getting upset at that is just another display of his hypocrisy and pettiness
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
No bro, dude is a genius.
semiconscious
Member
smh. just plain embarrassing, & insulting. to the point it's like he actually seems to be envious of the game's massive success...
Of course he is! My little brain can't even comprehend what he's trying to accomplish in that video.
VivaciousSoul
Member
People always want to say that it's someone's right to say whatever they want to say about a game. It's their opinion for goodness sake! I always hear this. Seems like some of these same people will not allow you to have an opinion of that opinion.
unless you love the MCU, taco bell and the latest 90+ metacritic AAA games you are a pretentious whining edge-lord. It disgust me to what level some just can't stand people who are more cultivated and intellectually sophisticated than themselves.
No i wouldnt have expected you to play it at all or give it a chance. Yet here he is giving it a chance playing a game. Also don't want to get off topic but I agree with that sentiment to an extent. There are many that grew up with Zelda, some of those became reviewers. Go into a the Crash thread and try to spot who grew up with the series and who didn't, it pretty clear cut. As you said people do in fact do that (shit on games they've never played) then the opposite is also true. People that did play the game will call it the greatest game ever made. Especially for games in a long running franchise like this (seriously just snoop the Crash thread). The dude is giving it a shot and has made valid criticism about puzzles (a subject I'll trust his opinion on). I don't give a shit what he has to say about the open world or combat because I know he has no expertise there. In that I have my on pre conceived notion on what a good open world and combat should feel like. I've played many good (and bad) ones to know. I take some of what he has to say a challenge what I think on the matter. All I see these Zelda fans (In my experience I've never seen fans of any game or franchise get as testy) do is complain about any negative reception and say "see 98% that means I'm in the right". They won't listen to what other people have to say and challenge their OWN opinions. Again being in the majority does NOT make you right(not directed at you)!
Edit: Look at all the posters bad mouthing/dismissing him with Zelda or Nintendo avatars, complaining about bias.
Edit 2: Example:
There's many more but I wont bother.
Chainsawkitten
Member
Are you kidding me? Every Zelda game since the NES era has had traditional tutorials. Some quite extensive. And so what if other games have lots of tutorials? There are plenty of people shitting on those too, I assure you.
Team Filler
Member
Cultivated and intellectually sophisticated? LMAO, I'm sure Jonathan probably thinks so!
Great insight.
GamePlay Johnny
Member
Before he started playing:
"Some people say this game is amazing. I don't tend to believe that kind of thing. From what I've seen of the game I can't tell why people like it so much, except that maybe, it's got the magical Nintendo 20 points score boost or something."
I have nothing against Jonathan but I cannot take someone's opinion seriously when he goes in with this kind of attitude.
"Some people say this game is amazing. I don't tend to believe that kind of thing. From what I've seen of the game I can't tell why people like it so much, except that maybe, it's got the magical Nintendo 20 points score boost or something."
I have nothing against Jonathan but I cannot take someone's opinion seriously when he goes in with this kind of attitude.
Let me tell you about Sega fans circa 2001...
Yes rabid Nintendo fans are a special breed of crazy and it's a shame since they're my favorite developer/publisher
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