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[Spirited]

I disagree on his points of the shrines, love how they are implemented and having multiple ways of solving them is actually really good instead of being forced to do it one way by removing abilities that might "cheese" the puzzle.
I agree on many of his points though but as usual I believe Joseph is a bit nitpicky and I prefer mathewmatosis, gamemaker's toolkit and Noah Gervais over his analysis in most cases.

I'm only five minutes into the video and he seems a bit... extreme in both his position of the game and the verbiage he uses to describe his experiences.

He first bemoans the "perfect scores" and "10/10's", saying the game has "huge critical problems" that somehow 60+ reviewers "ignored". So either it's a conspiracy (he obviously doesn't think that, but here we are), or these "problems" aren't as problematic to the vast majority of players as it was to him.

And it's fine that he can have those problems. But it was a bit of an odd rail against the other reviewers/opinions of the game that stuck out immediately (I mean, it's basically his introduction).

He then goes on to call some aspects of the game "unfinished", calling the developers who were involved in the areas he criticizes a "team of amateurs". Later on he says that in fact that some parts of this game are "diseased" (He's made it very clear so far that he absolutely abhors the shrines haha).

And that's just 3:07 into the video. Whew! It's... a bit much, when in fact myself and the vast majority of players have had a very different experience with the game. And again, that's fine. But he's made it pretty clear that he's right and everyone else is either ignoring these issues or are compartmentalizing them... when in fact they could actually be very much enjoy them! Other than probably two gyro controlled Shrines (the "mini golf" Shrine actually was one of my favorites!), I thought that was a brilliant aspect of the game (and can totally understand the issue of the shrines not being aesthetically pleasing/diverse).

I can definitely agree that some improvements can be made, but with such verbiage, I'm very hesitant to continue further into the video. Kinda just want to wait for Mark Brown's "Boss Keys" video. Those are some good stuff.

I agree with you completely, he has some solid points but he goes too far in how he expresses it and also goes in hard on an aspect that is oftenly liked by people (the shrines) and states how they are bad as a fact without really proving it.

 

[Lizardus]

Disagree about combat and weapon durability.

Lynels? Use bows and mounting to kill them very quickly

Silver enemies? I have yet to see more than 2 in a group and they ALWAYS carry good weapons. Think they have bloated HP? Freeze them and the next attack does 3x damage. Just one of many tools you can use for combat.

Also hitboxes are very precise, based on my experience with putting thousands of hours in monster hunter.

For a non-combat based game, the combat is pretty deep.

Im regards to BotW not being like a Zelda game, I think that was the developers' intention.

 

[pringles]

I just can not relate to most of what he's saying. Almost all the changes he proposes would make the game clearly worse and less special in my eyes. Some of the adjustments he wants for the combat/healing systems could, maybe even should, be implemented in a hard mode but it's not something necessarily suited for the standard BotW. It's already perhaps the most difficult Zelda yet.

Also what he's saying about shrines.. it's like we played different games.

 

[Chill Penguin]

Its a great game and still has several areas to improve on. Not sure why people get so butt hurt over the fact the game isn't 100% flawless.

The game is so overwhelmingly good the negatives wash away when you're playing. I don't think an honest assessment of its negatives is going to be possible for a year or two. Everyone's too in love with the game right now.

 

[McNum]

I don't really see how combat balance being fragile, as he calls it, is a bad thing. It's meant to incentivize different playstyles yet let them all accomplish what they set out to do.

The example of accidentally taking down one of the bosses in seconds with the Master Sword really sticks out as a "Well, what did you expect?" moment. That's an Explorer reward. By exploring the world and finding the legendary blade, you unlocked the ability to cheese boss fights. The ability to drain all challenge from those fights are so hardcore explorers can skip their least favorite parts. Likewise, if you just want to beat the game, you can just outright rush the bosses with no Master Sword, no food, not armor and win with skill alone. Both are valid playstyles, and both beat the boss. One uses hours of preparation, the other uses reflexes and combat skill.

Essentially, the more non-combat stuff you do, the easier combat gets. By design. The more you explore, the sloppier you can fight. Up to the point where nearly any boss can be dealt with very easily. So complaining that your exploration rewards makes combat easier, when you did 30 hours of exploring and not fighting bosses.... well yeah. If you wanted to fight challenging bosses, they were right there the last 25 hours. Why didn't you?

 

[Red]

I don't really see how combat balance being fragile, as he calls it, is a bad thing. It's meant to incentivize different playstyles yet let them all accomplish what they set out to do.

The example of accidentally taking down one of the bosses in seconds with the Master Sword really sticks out as a "Well, what did you expect?" moment. That's an Explorer reward. By exploring the world and finding the legendary blade, you unlocked the ability to cheese boss fights. The ability to drain all challenge from those fights are so hardcore explorers can skip their least favorite parts. Likewise, if you just want to beat the game, you can just outright rush the bosses with no Master Sword, no food, not armor and win with skill alone. Both are valid playstyles, and both beat the boss. One uses hours of preparation, the other uses reflexes and combat skill.

Essentially, the more non-combat stuff you do, the easier combat gets. By design. The more you explore, the sloppier you can fight. Up to the point where nearly any boss can be dealt with very easily. So complaining that your exploration rewards makes combat easier, when you did 30 hours of exploring and not fighting bosses.... well yeah. If you wanted to fight challenging bosses, they were right there the last 25 hours. Why didn't you?

You're right on.

 

[Majukun]

how can he be so analytical and still don't get that weapon degradation has nothing to do with forcing you to use a variety of weapons?

 

[-MB-]

how can he be so analytical and still don't get that weapon degradation has nothing to do with forcing you to use a variety of weapons?

Because there is such a thing as being overly analytical and overthinking it, that you are missing the obvious things that are plain in front of you.

 

[nynt9]

Disagree about combat and weapon durability.

Lynels? Use bows and mounting to kill them very quickly

Silver enemies? I have yet to see more than 2 in a group and they ALWAYS carry good weapons. Think they have bloated HP? Freeze them and the next attack does 3x damage. Just one of many tools you can use for combat.

Also hitboxes are very precise, based on my experience with putting thousands of hours in monster hunter.

For a non-combat based game, the combat is pretty deep.

Im regards to BotW not being like a Zelda game, I think that was the developers' intention.

The hitboxes are precise, but the window for dodging is the issue. The video explains this better.

how can he be so analytical and still don't get that weapon degradation has nothing to do with forcing you to use a variety of weapons?

He lists out 6 common arguments people use in defense of the durability system. I can't summarize the entire video in my OP. You should either read the relevant section in the text or watch the video.

 

[SomTervo]

All his points seem excellent and valid, except two i take issue with.

1.

He points out that you can seemingly only get the flurry attack when you dodge attacks that wouldn't have hit you anyway

I've definitely dodged strikes that were right on course to get me and I'm quite sure this will be easy to disprove.

2. The argument about weapon variability being moot because the types all have the same animation.

That's crazy. Animations aren't the only thing that make weapons different/interesting. In some games, yes, but not in every game with combat. Even with the same animations it's the weapons highly variable properties, reaches, strengths and weaknesses etc that make swapping it up interesting.

 

[HeroR]

I don't really see how combat balance being fragile, as he calls it, is a bad thing. It's meant to incentivize different playstyles yet let them all accomplish what they set out to do.

The example of accidentally taking down one of the bosses in seconds with the Master Sword really sticks out as a "Well, what did you expect?" moment. That's an Explorer reward. By exploring the world and finding the legendary blade, you unlocked the ability to cheese boss fights. The ability to drain all challenge from those fights are so hardcore explorers can skip their least favorite parts. Likewise, if you just want to beat the game, you can just outright rush the bosses with no Master Sword, no food, not armor and win with skill alone. Both are valid playstyles, and both beat the boss. One uses hours of preparation, the other uses reflexes and combat skill.

Essentially, the more non-combat stuff you do, the easier combat gets. By design. The more you explore, the sloppier you can fight. Up to the point where nearly any boss can be dealt with very easily. So complaining that your exploration rewards makes combat easier, when you did 30 hours of exploring and not fighting bosses.... well yeah. If you wanted to fight challenging bosses, they were right there the last 25 hours. Why didn't you?

Or, they can just not used the Master Sword and just used other weapons for challenge sake. I mean, it isn't like you're forced to used it once you get it.

 

[TheJoRu]

The only real solid point he has regarding the shrines is how they would very much benefit from a kind of tier system depending on how many you've completed. It's quite jarring to enter your like 90th shrine after over a hundred hours and be greeted by a minor test of strength. That shrine would've been worth so much more if I'd gotten it much much earlier.

Granted, that means the shrines would now truly be separated from the overworld to the point where every player would get different shrine content even though they went in through the same entrance. But since the connection to the overworld as it is right now is minor at best (I've noticed some few patterns in terms of what kind of shrines goes where) it wouldn't make much of a difference in that regard. But it would balance things out a lot better.

EDIT:

About the video generally I think he has a good eye for details and can analyze things well, but his tone is incredibly irksome. Even the most nitpicky, minor complaints are positioned as some baffling display of utter garbage. The game's systems "falls apart" so many times in that video it becomes ridiculous. So even when he mentions stuff you kinda agree with, you also kinda don't, because in most cases it's such a small thing you just can't relate to the strong feelings he has about everything.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Maybe some people don't care that much about those aspect of the game?

I see that the game is flawed, but the highs outweigh the lows so much that it doesn't really matter to me.

But it's not simply about their opinions, it's that they have opinions and treat them as fact to bludgeon other opinions.

 

[Spinluck]

Yeah the combat could've been much better.

Incredible game though, gotta watch this some time.

 

[archreaper93]

There are absolutely damage sponges. White enemies take a lot of hits to down without introducing any added complexity to the encounter. You just have to hit them more, in most cases a lot more, and that is the very definition of a "bullet sponge."

Whether or not it bothers you as a player is another question entirely, but I think it's fair to say most players generally dislike enemies that demand more hits but no extra strategy.

Silver enemies are a lot more aggressive than other enemies. They also don't seem to stagger or drop their weapons as much. I think that adds enough complexity, especially when you'receive fighting groups of them. Plus, they always have good weapons to replace any you break.

 

[pringles]

The only real solid point he has regarding the shrines is how they would very much benefit from a kind of tier system depending on how many you've completed. It's quite jarring to enter your like 90th shrine after over a hundred hours and be greeted by a minor test of strength. That shrine would've been worth so much more if I'd gotten it much much earlier.

Granted, that means the shrines would now truly be separated from the overworld to the point where every player would get different shrine content even though they went in through the same entrance. But since the connection to the overworld as it is right now is minor at best (I've noticed some few patterns in terms of what kind of shrines goes where) it wouldn't make much of a difference in that regard. But it would balance things out a lot better.

I really dislike this idea as it's pretty much one of the big things wrong with most open-world games; the illusion of freedom. The awesomeness of stumbling into a Major Test early on and managing to beat it and being rewarded with some very powerful weapons more than makes up for the disappointment of entering a Minor Test in the late-game and just breezing through a 20 second fight to collect a spirit orb.

 

[Lizardus]

Let’s go through these in more detail. The argument in favor of balance is that if weapons weren’t breakable, you could sneak into Hyrule Castle early in the game and pick up a bunch of powerful weapons and steamroll all of the content. This argument makes a bad assumption in that if weapon durability was removed, that it would be the only change—that you would still be finding all of these weapons everywhere and you just keep replacing old ones with better ones. It also ignores that the world levels with you, and that these weapons in Hyrule Castle wouldn’t always be this powerful.

Actually yes, the only thing that I have seen scale is the modifiers on the weapons. The base stat is always same. So yes, someone could take Royal Guard Sword (48 damage) and steamroll Great Plateau with it.

He keeps talking about lots of different weapon types but there's only 3 melee: 2h,1h and spears. Each type has lots of different skins and stats. The game forces you to use different weapons and succeeds.

Same goes for other weapons. If you’re constantly switching, you’ll lose track of what weapons are already close to broken. You want to avoid the situation of having half of your weapons with low durability, so it makes sense to keep using the same weapon until it breaks before moving onto another, which also frees up a slot for whatever weapon you find next.

Why does it matter if weapons are close to low durability if a replacement is so easy to find, as he points out bit later in the article. But then again, he points out that there's no way to renew a weapon's durability. Again, why worry about it when they are plentiful?

Lots of inconsistencies in his arguments, seems to me that he just wanted Skyward Sword 2.0.

The only real solid point he has regarding the shrines is how they would very much benefit from a kind of tier system depending on how many you've completed. It's quite jarring to enter your like 90th shrine after over a hundred hours and be greeted by a minor test of strength. That shrine would've been worth so much more if I'd gotten it much much earlier.

Its like that because people aren't going to do the shrines in the exact order. It would make sense of easy shrines to be in starting areas. As someone pointed out, stumbling upon a major test of strength when you are just starting out is quite the experience. Sure, they could have scaled shrine difficulty but it takes away from freedom of the game.

 

[Vena]

The hitboxes are precise, but the window for dodging is the issue. The video explains this better.

I genuinely cannot believe this to be the case, and I have sunk a lot of hours into the Lynel fight challenges people do with all sorts of weapons and conditions. You know when you fucked up a timed dodge and you're effectively in the Lynel's crotch, there is no way "that hit would have missed anyway" is in any capacity a valid reality of the game's activation of Flurry Rush.

There is no frame data that would allow one to run away from/out of reach of a Lynel's crossed swing in time to avoid being hit hard by his weapon, especially when its the sword variant as they swing far too fast.

 

[Geno Breaker]

I love the game but he makes some strong points. I feel like a couple of years from now way more people on GAF are going to agree with him. For me the positives mostly outweigh the negatives.

 

[DrArchon]

I agree with his general point of shrines being too easy on the whole, but I disagree with his idea of having shrines be randomized and their difficulty tied to your progress in the game. There's a lot to be said about stumbling upon something that's much more difficult than what you've encountered before and still coming out on top.

A better solution would be to simply increase the overall length of difficulty of all of the shrines across the board. It's not like the game isn't challenging outside of the shrines, especially early on, so I don't see why so many of them are so simple.

Also, either scrap the tests of strength or overhaul them completely. They're embarrassing as they are. For God's sake, how is their not a single one with multiple enemies? Not even different types of enemies, just more than one!

 

[DecoReturns]

Watching some of the Video. In fact that not flaw at all as it would go against the idea of Breath of the Wild

I really disagree with the Shrine complaints. One of my very first shrine was a major strength trial, beating it with three hearts and earning that armor prize felt great. Discovery something hard and choosing to try and beat it seem to be the point of this game.

I think another problem he has is that the game is meant to be play by everybody, I felt the difficulty was handled well. Not everybody is good at videogames, this game wanted you to progress how you can.

 

[DanielJr82]

Will watch when I finish the game. He goes really in depth... maybe too in depth? =P

 

[Poyunch]

I was alright with his shrine complaints until he complained about the ball puzzle with the stasis. I did exactly what he complained about in that same shrine and I thought doing that was pretty hilarious.

He called it bad game design but the entire game is all about playing free-form and using your wits to solve challenges through a ruleset you come to learn and understand.

That part bothered me a lot. It was solely intentional to allow players to fudge some things. There are some other shrines that intentionally prevent you from breaking the game too much so it's not like the designers were stupid.

 

[Parshias7]

I like some of his suggestions, like having an infinite durability weapon with low damage that you could upgrade as the game goes on, but never enough to outpace the limited durability weapons you pick up.

But other things he talks about are just completely baffling to me. Like suggesting that a shrine's challenge not be tied at all to a location but just pulled up depending on whether it is your fifth shrine vs. your fiftieth. Just awful.

Also some pieces of criticism don't seem to gel with statements earlier in the video. He doesn't seem to mind there being a bajillion Korok Seeds since you should only pick up so many, but then he goes out of his way to do all the shrines he doesn't like and then complains he's overpowered. It runs into the same kind of criticism Superbunnyhop had where he binged the game and got burnt out. Of course you're going to be overpowered if you get 100% completion. Nintendo no doubt balanced the game around a player completing something like 30-40% of the shrines. If they made it so that the bosses were legitimately challenging to players who had 30 hearts and maxed out armor sets then the average player would be totally fucked.

And then there was the whole "shrine puzzles are bad because they have more than one solution!" The fact that they applied the same open approach to the puzzles they made for the stuff in the open world is the best damn part!

 

[Timeaisis]

Why are there so many posts linking to analysis of Breath of the Wild? I mean, I get it, it's a fantastic game, but are we so interested in proving why it's actually imperfect that we continue to share every video we find that claims this? You could just use the OT...

Maybe I should make a video about Nier Automata being incredibly poorly designed despite unanimous critical acclaim. Will GAF make a thread about it? I'd hope so.

 

[kunonabi]

He captures many of the issues I had with the game although I reacted much more negatively to the divine beasts and Hyrule Castle than he did.

Boy am I glad I didn't really upgrade my armor until after I beat Ganon though because I would have disliked the game even more than I did.

The game is amazing early on but it becomes so obvious how much is missing and how poorly designed some parts of it are the longer you play. It's sad because I went back and beat the original LoZ for the first time afterwards and it does a much better job of avoiding some of these issues than BotW does.

 

[HeroR]

I like some of his suggestions, like having an infinite durability weapon with low damage that you could upgrade as the game goes on, but never enough to outpace the limited durability weapons you pick up.

But other things he talks about are just completely baffling to me. Like suggesting that a shrine's challenge not be tied at all to a location but just pulled up depending on whether it is your fifth shrine vs. your fiftieth. Just awful.

Also some pieces of criticism don't seem to gel with statements earlier in the video. He doesn't seem to mind there being a bajillion Korok Seeds since you should only pick up so many, but then he goes out of his way to do all the shrines he doesn't like and then complains he's overpowered. It runs into the same kind of criticism Superbunnyhop had where he binged the game and got burnt out. Of course you're going to be overpowered if you get 100% completion. Nintendo no doubt balanced the game around a player completing something like 30-40% of the shrines. If they made it so that the bosses were legitimately challenging to players who had 30 hearts and maxed out armor sets then the average player would be totally fucked.

And then there was the whole "shrine puzzles are bad because they have more than one solution!" The fact that they applied the same open approach to the puzzles they made for the stuff in the open world is the best damn part!

Doing that would make it like Skyward Sword when you start out with a fairly weak sword and upgrade through the game. Or several other Zelda games that give you several powerful, but breakable weapons. All this will do is make people used the low level weapon for most of the game.

He captures many of the issues I had with the game although I reacted much more negatively to the divine beasts and Hyrule Castle than he did.

Boy am I glad I didn't really upgrade my armor until after I beat Ganon though because I would have disliked the game even more than I did.

The game is amazing early on but it becomes so obvious how much is missing and how poorly designed some parts of it are the longer you play. It's sad because I went back and beat the original LoZ for the first time afterwards and it does a much better job of avoiding some of these issues than BotW does.

That is kind of the point of the game. You can upgrade all your armor and be overpowered or you can go naked with a wooden stick. You can not do the shines at all and do a three heart run. So the complaint that the game is 'too easy' because you purposely made yourself overpowered is kind of like complaining that you over leveled in a RPG because you had to do all the side-quests before going to the final boss.

 

[TheJoRu]

Alright, I recognize the merits of having this non-controlled free nature behind shrines and not having a progression (though I do think the benefits of that wears off in the late game). I've changed my mind on that.

 

[SunBroDave]

Frankly it's embarrassing how some people in this thread are unable to reconcile their love for this game with the fact (FACT) that this game doesn't so everything perfectly. No game is above criticism, no matter it's Metascore. And people SHOULD criticize. Feedback, and consideration of that feedback, is what will make the next game even better.

 

[yurinka]

Seriously, for me the main negative point is that the game doesn't have fishing rods.

Spoiler

2/10, I'll ask for a refund, Nintendo is doomed etc. xDD

There are quite a few questionable choices and decisions but i can't think of anything that is "very poor" in this game.

Weapon durability, stamina durability when running or climbing even if you maxed all the upgrades, stupid amount of mostly repetitive collectables (900 seeds), shrines repeated many times (like the stregth tests), side quests that literally are "bring me 55 of these toads placed in difficult places", not including an indication of the first location of the guy who can increase the -very limited during a big portion of the game- amount of stuff you can bring with you (I had to use a guide after 150h of playing the game), the limit of stuff you can leave at home and in which moment is it unlocked, the bullet sponges (include guardians here until you get certain items much later in the game or master the parry, after 200h+ I don't know how to direct the reflection), some pointless minigames, not being able to climb when raining even if you have the full climbing costume and upgraded it, physics+motion sensor puzzles being poorly designed so a few of them you accidentally solved in a clearly, non-planned or designed way because poor consideration of physics and completly broken and unplayable motion sensor gameplay in that puzzle (I'm ok with having multiple logic ways to solve them), no indication of the total amount/remaining korok seeds and shrines -it would be perfect to show the remaining ones per map area-,the guy who repeats again and again the same song/story, fps performance in some areas until was fixed, hiding the chests you earn for buying the season pass, the bloody moon message beign repeated again and again when you need to press multiple buttons each time to skip it, not being able to remap most buttons, to have voice over for some stuff only and some other ones I may forget now.

Yes, the game is awesome and has a lot of great stuff but also has many negative points.

 

[Wedzi]

/sigh

I want to watch it but can't stand the way he talks.

I don't know but this comment made me crack up

 

[PillarEN]

About one of the shrines he criticizes for having 2 solutions.

I did it another way.

Spoiler

the one where there is a ball at 41:44. yeah it never occurred to me to do the box solution. But it didn't even occur to me to stasis the ball. In the end I magnetized a box to prevent the ball from falling in. Then when I was on the platform I removed the box and let the ball fall in.

So it's super cool how that puzzle had various solutions for people whose brains have different problem solving methods.

EDIT: OMG I just learned through this video that for the puzzles with leaves I could

Spoiler

just smack the small fire stand with a weapon to make them fall over. What? Hahaha. How did that never occur to me to try that. Incredible

 

[kunonabi]

Frankly it's embarrassing how some people in this thread are unable to reconcile their love for this game with the fact (FACT) that this game doesn't so everything perfectly. No game is above criticism, no matter it's Metascore. And people SHOULD criticize. Feedback, and consideration of that feedback, is what will make the next game even better.

The sad thing is that refusing to be at all critical is what that lead to 3D Zelda stagnating for as long as it did. Nobody wanted to acknowledge OoT's problems so nothing was ever really done about them until SS.

 

[Parshias7]

Frankly it's embarrassing how some people in this thread are unable to reconcile their love for this game with the fact (FACT) that this game doesn't so everything perfectly. No game is above criticism, no matter it's Metascore. And people SHOULD criticize. Feedback, and consideration of that feedback, is what will make the next game even better.

Would you care to point out the people in this thread who think that BotW is perfect?

Seems to me that certain posters are taking issues with certain points made in the video.

 

[TheJoRu]

The sad thing is that refusing to be at all critical is what that lead to 3D Zelda stagnating for as long as it did. Nobody wanted to acknowledge OoT's problems so nothing was ever really done about them until SS.

Apart from the poor framerate and child dungeons being notably inferior to the adult dungeons (they were still good) I honestly have nothing bad to say about OoT, at all. It's the closest to a perfect game we've ever gotten in my book.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

BOTW might be the most disappointing game ive ever played. Got a Wiiu at launch because its a safe bet there will be a Zelda on every Nintendo console.The trailers looked great, all these fun looking characters and scenes, only to find out they're all just optional flashbacks and don't amount to anything. Its essentially a Hyrule Carnival where you dick about until you want to go home ie. beat the main boss, which to some people seems to be the greatest game ever but its definitely not for everyone.

 

[yurinka]

Apart from the poor framerate and child dungeons being notably inferior to the adult dungeons (they were still good) I honestly have nothing bad to say about OoT, at all. It's the closest to a perfect game we've ever gotten in my book.

How about the awful, blurry graphics and camera that made the game almost unplayable (especially in a CRT tv) even back in the N64 days?

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Apart from the poor framerate and child dungeons being notably inferior to the adult dungeons (they were still good) I honestly have nothing bad to say about OoT, at all. It's the closest to a perfect game we've ever gotten in my book.

I could name a few, though some are mostly opinion. Hyrule Fields was mostly empty and a waste of time to traverse through, Epona and horse combat was completely optional and pointless, Water Temple and the Iron Boots (They fixed it though), elemental arrows like the ice arrows were pointless, the running man race was pointless, the two trading quests were boring and a bit tedious, the world felt a tad stagnate even for 1998 standards, combat was too simplistic mostly due to how simple enemies attack (this excludes the Darknuts but even then), the time travel aspect was under utilized, and there's a cow in my treehouse when I finish Malon's race.

In all honesty, some of these are nitpicks and some were fixed as early as Majora's Mask (ice and fire arrows had actual usages.)

 

[kunonabi]

Doing that would make it like Skyward Sword when you start out with a fairly weak sword and upgrade through the game. Or several other Zelda games that give you several powerful, but breakable weapons. All this will do is make people used the low level weapon for most of the game.



That is kind of the point of the game. You can upgrade all your armor and be overpowered or you can go naked with a wooden stick. You can not do the shines at all and do a three heart run. So the complaint that the game is 'too easy' because you purposely made yourself overpowered is kind of like complaining that you over leveled in a RPG because you had to do all the side-quests before going to the final boss.

The thing is the game isn't hard even if you don't build yourself up. The whole game is pretty much designed for players at the base level to succeed. The fact that every encounter can accomplished with the base techniques, that also happen to be super effective, means that the game can never really build up to anything substantial. It's just continually flat or a downward slope if you do decide to engage with the main quest and side stuff. It pretty much punishes everyone since doing the whole speed run/3 heart thing is actually something laid out for you instead of a being worthwhile challenge that you conquer by exceptional execution and mastery of the game's underlying systems, etc.

 

[TheJoRu]

How about the awful, blurry graphics and camera that made the game almost unplayable (especially in a CRT tv) even back in the N64 days?

I...disagree. That's all I have to say about it. I think the game looked great back in the day, and the camera was neither particularly good or bad in my opinion. It fades compared to games today, but worked fine, especially considering the limitations of the N64 controller.

Edit: the 2D backgrounds in the market for example were certainly a blemish on the game's visuals thinking about it, but it wasn't uncommon back then. They age the game a lot, though, that's for sure.

 

[atr0cious]

The ne shot mechanics are consistent, if you have full health, there is no way to be one shot.e one shot even if you have 19.5 hearts.

Seen this a lot but it's simply not true. It depends on what you have equipped. Combat complaints have had so many threads I really don't feel like it's worth the time to go back over. Every one plays the game differently, but i will agree the lock on system is trash and it's ridiculous how bad it can be, especially against lynels.

The thing is the game isn't hard even if you don't build yourself up. The whole game is pretty much designed for players at the base level to succeed. The fact that every encounter can accomplished with the base techniques, that also happen to be super effective, means that the game can never really build up to anything substantial. It's just continually flat or a downward slope if you do decide to engage with the main quest and side stuff. It pretty much punishes everyone since doing the whole speed run/3 heart thing is actually something laid out for you instead of a being worthwhile challenge that you conquer by exceptional execution and mastery of the game's underlying systems, etc.

Disagree completely, and I don't even know what flat means in a game with this type of world that has pockets of surprises in different ways other than a small key or heart piece.

 

[Thetinman]

the whole their need to be more dungeons thing is something I just don't get am I the only one who thought that all of Hyrule was just one massive dungeon. Past Zelda you enter a dungeon use tools found in dungeons to complete puzzle and kill enemies in that dungeon. Hyrule is covered in small puzzle some that unlock much larger puzzle in shrines for some of them you must use the tools give to unlock. The tools given can also be used in many different ways to kill all the enemies found in Hyrule. With the shrines and the divine beasts acting as rooms with in the massive dungeons that is Hyrule. So we didn't get four or how ever many dungeons we just got one really big one.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

the whole their need to be more dungeons thing is something I just don't get am I the only one who thought that all of Hyrule was just one massive dungeon. Past Zelda you enter a dungeon use tools found in dungeons to complete puzzle and kill enemies in that dungeon. Hyrule is covered in small puzzle some that unlock much larger puzzle in shrines for some of them you must use the tools give to unlock. The tools given can also be used in many different ways to kill all the enemies found in Hyrule. With the shrines and the divine beasts acting as rooms with in the massive dungeons that is Hyrule. So we didn't get four or how ever many dungeons we just got one really big one.

That sounds like gibberish. Every open world game is just one big dungeon by your meter.
You're comparing 100% optional content with designed, directed, and necessary dungeons.

 

[Kuro]

Frankly it's embarrassing how some people in this thread are unable to reconcile their love for this game with the fact (FACT) that this game doesn't so everything perfectly. No game is above criticism, no matter it's Metascore. And people SHOULD criticize. Feedback, and consideration of that feedback, is what will make the next game even better.

This is the same place where people lost their shit over an 8.9 for Twilight Princess back in the day and then a few years later people start seeing the issues with the game. It just takes time. Its why we ended up with rehashes of OoT for a while. They finally mixed up the formula but it still needs plenty of work regardless of the gushing that current games media gave it.

 

[nynt9]

That sounds like gibberish. Every open world game is just one big dungeon by your meter.
You're comparing 100% optional content with designed, directed, and necessary dungeons.

Indeed. Having small environmental puzzles everywhere isn't the same thing as having thematically consistent closed off environments with related puzzles building towards each other, and culminating in a boss that plays on those themes and puzzles.

 

[Twilight Princess]

This is the same place where people lost their shit over an 8.9 for Twilight Princess back in the day and then a few years later people start seeing the issues with the game. It just takes time. Its why we ended up with rehashes of OoT for a while. They finally mixed up the formula but it still needs plenty of work regardless of the gushing that current games media gave it.

it's 8.8

 

[kunonabi]

Seen this a lot but it's simply not true. It depends on what you have equipped. Combat complaints have had so many threads I really don't feel like it's worth the time to go back over. Every one plays the game differently, but i will agree the lock on system is trash and it's ridiculous how bad it can be, especially against lynels.

Disagree completely, and I don't even know what flat means in a game with this type of world that has pockets of surprises in different ways other than a small key or heart piece.

well 95% of every intriguing destination leads to a shrine or korok seed for one thing. The game never builds on anything is the problem. Puzzle design rarely ever iterates on an idea to any significant degree or does anything worthwhile in terms of combining multiple concepts. Hell, as far as the divine beasts go the gerudo one is the only one that has a second layer to its puzzle design. Combat never really changes either and there is never a point where the game hits any sort of climax whether you're talking about the gameplay, the narrative, or even the music.

the whole their need to be more dungeons thing is something I just don't get am I the only one who thought that all of Hyrule was just one massive dungeon. Past Zelda you enter a dungeon use tools found in dungeons to complete puzzle and kill enemies in that dungeon. Hyrule is covered in small puzzle some that unlock much larger puzzle in shrines for some of them you must use the tools give to unlock. The tools given can also be used in many different ways to kill all the enemies found in Hyrule. With the shrines and the divine beasts acting as rooms with in the massive dungeons that is Hyrule. So we didn't get four or how ever many dungeons we just got one really big one.

You people keep peddling this excuse but it's never going to be true.

 

[Lilo_D]

well 95% of every intriguing destination leads to a shrine or korok seed for one thing. The game never builds on anything is the problem. Puzzle design rarely ever iterates on an idea to any significant degree or does anything worthwhile in terms of combining multiple concepts. Hell, as far as the divine beasts go the gerudo one is the only one that has a second layer to its puzzle design. Combat never really changes either and there is never a point where the game hits any sort of climax whether you're talking about the gameplay, the narrative, or even the music.



You people keep peddling this excuse but it's never going to be true.

perfect example why developer should not listen to players lol

 

[Dynheart]

Here's captain obvious:

There is no such thing as a perfect game. The developers cannot (impossible) cater to 100% of the gaming crowd an their gaming sensibilities. I feel like a lot of the "negatives" to Zelda are very opinion based (very few are unanimously shared among the industry), and they vary from thread to thread/article to article. If the negatives were apparent, then they would be more wide-spread.

IMO, Zelda is not the perfect game. It has some negatives, but none that I have seen in this thread. To me, it's the rain that has negative impact to me in the game. Sure, have it rain Do not have it rain for 15 minutes, real time, so I cannot climb anything (or just speed through my stamina potions).

But that's just a nitpick. If it comes down to nitpicking, which it seems people love to find flaws if a product is really good, then it has to be a damn good game.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

perfect example why developer should not listen to players lol

Developers not listening to the players would have prevented BOTW from ever happening