OldJadedGamer
Banned
Actually there is a huge orange sticker that must be cut through in order for the pacage to be opened on first shipment games. After the first shipment they remove the sticker.
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Just got my console (and I assume my account) banned from Live for playing Halo 4.
- Thread starter Skel1ingt0n
- Start date
Actually there is a huge orange sticker that must be cut through in order for the pacage to be opened on first shipment games. After the first shipment they remove the sticker.
robotzombie
Member
Really? Because I've read the topic, repeatedly seen no one make a single logical point against the argument I've made (and made already in this topic which was straight up ingored) and still continuously see people defending MS. So tough shit that you had to read it again.
Not for the consumer there isnt
Zoe
Member
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Ravensmash
Member
Why would this have been seen by a consumer? Why should the consumer be the one to point it out if he witnesses someone doing it anyway?
If I'm in a store and someone offers to sell me a highly anticipated game a bit early, then I'm probably going to take it - not question the invisible legalities of my actions.
Apologies if this has already been brought up. But I am assuming MS thinks the game is stolen because your copy was not actually rung through the system when you bought it correct. So you were playing a game which according to digital records was never purchased or authorized yet for play.
When you went back to get the receipt, did the store ring up your copy or another one they had in stock at the store? If the latter, your copy may still be deemed illegitimate to MS, so I would be wary about playing it online in another 360.
When you went back to get the receipt, did the store ring up your copy or another one they had in stock at the store? If the latter, your copy may still be deemed illegitimate to MS, so I would be wary about playing it online in another 360.
Uno Venova
Banned
vikingvessel
Member
How could it not be seen by the consumer? You cannot get these Halo cases open without removing the sticker. Plenty of games have them. You know that.
robotzombie
Member
Yea there is. Here is an example:
That is absolutely not the standard scenario and the vast majority of stores do not have a sticker like that on any copies of the games they sell, including the initial shipment. ESPECIALLY not for any games that aren't AAA major releases. Even still, that sticker is directed at the employee, not the consumer, why in the fucking world should the consumer have to abide by it?
OldJadedGamer
Banned
For the majority of most stores, the computer software system won't let the sale happen. It has to be shady and under the table for the consumer to get the sale. Just like the OP stated.
blitzcloud
Banned
Look, NO.
It would be nothing alike.
Changing your internet connection proxy to be forward in time to unlock it would be comparable. And even then, it's still not alike.
Let's make this pretty clear: Microsoft is banning because they want.
Because they want and no other reason at all. They can have ways of preventing this from happening yet what they want is to ban pirates, even with collateral damage.
Let me tell you two solutions at the top of my head.
1. Game can't be played online (as in, online status) as it has the launch day coded into a small file and will contrast it with the LIVE servers (can be played offline).
2. Only people in the whitelist are allowed online pre-launch.
Do you think MS can't do this? As I stated previously, they use this to get pirates, because they have no actual proper tools of detecting some of the mods unless they do something stupid like modding lobbies or alter avatar colors.
PS: Sticker says DO NOT SELL. I don't see DO NOT BUY anywhere.
paperspace
Member
Last edited:
Ravensmash
Member
I didn't know that - I've got online preorders early before and had nothing but a sealed copy that arrived a day or two before release.
Retail is obviously different I presume, but can't a store just remove said sticker if prepping for a street date break?
Shady or not, I'd rather OP not be hit by bans or lockouts of his content because of the active choice of a store to break release date - emphasis should be on them, not the consumer.
Uno Venova
Banned
Halo 4 cases have these stickers for the consumer? because that Halo 3 picture is the only one I can find.
True.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
First shipments do. Every single game I bought at a midnight launch has the sticker. They remove it after the first batch.
vikingvessel
Member
But it is the standard for 360 Halo releases, including the one the discussion here is based on. Halo 4 copies will probably still have this orange sticker beneath the cellophane a year from now. The OP having to abide by it is not what I am commenting on. This sticker being an odd occurrence is what I am attempting to address.
robotzombie
Member
You didn't know that because you don't have to know that. Many stores don't have that sticker, especially if you order online and even in many retail scenarios. On top of that, those stickers only ever show up on rare cases, namely major AAA releases. You'd NEVER see a sticker like that on some JRPG. Lastly, that sticker is not meant for you, the consumer. It says specifically, "Do not SELL before x date". That sticker is meant for the person selling it to you. If they sell it to you anyway, why is that your responsibility. So don't feel bad for "Not knowing better"
Speaking of buying online, Capcom's own store has sent out copies of games that reached consumers early that they've been able to play. Should Microsoft ban them?
Uno Venova
Banned
But it's not sold like that is it.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Yes. I personally have removed these stickers on my games once I got home in order to open the boxes and get the game disc out.
WrenchNinja
Member
I bought Halo 4 at launch and mine didnt come with that sticker. Wtf are you talking about.
robotzombie
Member
Who cares if it is the standard for Halo 360 games? It still has nothing to do with the consumer, is not the standard for all video games or even all items sold to consumers. I guarantee its not even the standard for Halo games at all retailers. Release dates have absolutely nothing to do with a consumer and a consumer being punished for not abiding by one is insanity.
Ravensmash
Member
On a side note, does MS offer consumers an opportunity to redownload purchased content in the event of a ban?
Example being; I get banned but have XBLA/Games on Demand linked to my account that are not currently on my system - do I lose access to that, and if so how is that legal?
Example being; I get banned but have XBLA/Games on Demand linked to my account that are not currently on my system - do I lose access to that, and if so how is that legal?
The problem is, there isn't a good analogy for this kind of thing, because it is something emerging from the move to digital identities etc. analogies require something in common, and this is just punching someone in the face and taking their stuff because they 'look funny'. No logic is being applied.
RedNumberFive
Banned
The Lord Microsoft giveth and The Lord Microsoft taketh away.
blitzcloud
Banned
That seems to be the case. I mean, not being able to.
I'll never understand why account status is bound to content. If i'm banned from a service for the use of profane language (for example), why would my financial side (not community) be influenced by it?
They should enforce (as in, make it a legal requirement) it so people lose access to chats, messaging, all that stuff but their legitimate purchases. Unless it was a billing issue of course.
robotzombie
Member
Do you not realize that that sticker says "do not SELL" and not "do not PLAY". Again I will make the point that consumers are given no information upon purchase that they are not allowed to use an item before a certain date. That sticker means nothing to the consumer. If the store chooses to ignore it, it is their responsibility.
Uno Venova
Banned
Yeah this doesn't' sound standard so it's not worth talking about, I've seen boxes opened on launch with nothing like that in there.
lastflowers
Banned
I a stunned that this guy hasn't called customer service. Like really!?
That is a horrible analogy. A friend of mine used to work at Burger King. She gave out plenty of free food. None of the people who got the free food got in trouble. She was the only one who was fired and banned from working at any Burger King. (Though she was rehired a few months later with a raise).
In the OPs case he DID pay for the game, he gave his credit card information with the intention to pay. You can consider that a "pre-order". The store did charge his credit card on release date so the OP upheld his argreement to the store. There was no theft. It was the store (cashier) who decided to ring it in at a later date as to not get THEMSELVES into trouble.
Using BK as an example again. If I gave my friend money for a meal and she decided to pocket the money or not ring it in until the end of the day. I'm not the one who's doing wrong she is. I paid my money and she told me she'd ring it in. As a customer that's all I'm really entitled to do. Pay for the goods that I buy. If the cashier gives me a deal or a discount because I know them THEY are the ones that are doing something "shady". Why should I argue with them or decline their offer?
The OP is being treated unfairly. Anyone who sees it as anything less than that is just being silly and arguing for the sake of just arguing. Yes he knew that he broke the street date for the game. Yes he was even stupid to try and play online, but then again nobody has ever had their account banned for this kind of thing before. Should he lose access to every game and DLC he's ever purchased from the MS Store because the STORE broke street date?
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Depends on when the store you got it from received their shipment. Obviously the copy you got was not from an early shipment.
Its disgusting that this guy still isn't unbanned.
robotzombie
Member
So you are ignoring every point made by everyone to just keep repeating that you've got a sticker on your game that isn't even the answer to my question in the first place. Your sticker says "do not sell", not "do not use/play/open/etc."
No one cares that you've gotten that sticker. Other people didn't get that sticker on games at or before release and the sticker is irrelevant as it has nothing to do with informing the consumer of anything.
I worked at gamestop for about a year and never seen stickers like that before.
Uno Venova
Banned
figures, another worthless point brought up to try and put the blame on anyone unfortunate enough to buy a game they anticipate early.
It's not a worthless point because I have seen them on some games but not one copy of Halo 4 I had ever seen had it, This guy shouldn't have been banned and as soon as he was, MS should have unbanned him and made it right.
I don't see how anyone can still defend MS in this case.
If the OP's copy is legit, Microsoft are douchebags for banning him. Being banned for nothing and not being able to play games you purchased is an asshole move. I don't invest much money into Xbox games or Steam games on the off chance that a bs ban happens and I happen to lose my games.
That's what I thought, too. Apparently I was wrong.
Fox Mulder
Member
He thought he was going to be rescued by angel posters at MS.
Besides the core issue what I don't get is the sudden policy change about banning people over breaking street date. Major Nelson has come out in the past and said that they won't ban people for playing legit copies of games that were acquired before release, and that they only target pirates. That policy seems to have changed with zero warning or acknowledgement. Everything else aside, the OP deserves to get his account and console unbanned for that reason. MS has set an expectation for years that this is OK, you can't just reverse the policy and start banning people without so much as first warning them.
Maybe, but the OP just went out and bought another console and another Live account like a good little consumer.
They fucked him over for hundreds of dollars worth of hardware and software and he still came back for more. If that isn't validation that the system works I don't know what is.
actually. Yeah there is. Here in Australia pretty much every Microsoft first party game has a do not sell before sticker on it.
By the point he was banned it had not been bought yet, so the 'DO NOT BUY' wouldn't apply either.
It's the retailers responsibility though if they choose to bend the purchasing rules, and I don't think that warrants a system ban for a person. It's certainly a weird situation.
robotzombie
Member
1. Australia
2. Just Microsoft first party means nothing
3. Do not sell has nothing to do with the consumer
Customer service would be pretty useless without a post-dated receipt, and even if he had one, and even if he was willing to narc on his store and give it to them, there's no guarantee that they would help him. They have apparently told others "Thanks for the ammo. Now get lost."
People with genuine connections have been trying to help him. He gave them time to do their thing. Sometimes it can be a bad idea to call up customer service and say "Hey, I have a friend named Frankie from 343 and he's trying to circumvent your official channels and get me unbanned, but he's taking too long. Can you circumvent your own channels and unban me already? Thanks." Sometimes that's just a way to destroy Frankie's progress and get Frankie in trouble.
They're still "banning for piracy", but they're putting the burden of proof onto the accused. If the OP had a receipt from the store dated before he was seen online, the OP's problems would likely all be gone by now, and the store would be in trouble for breach of contract.
Even if you choose to defend that stupid little DO NOT SELL sticker, it doesn't matter. Legal has a lot to do with wording. The consumer is not selling the game. The consumer is BUYING the game and PLAYING the game. That sticker is there to hold the store accountable. If a consumer were given the game for free, early, by a store as some promotion or something, would that count as selling? There's really a lot of ways this can be worked around, but "Dear God, it's Microsoft so we can't do shit!"
This mentality is stupid. Write Microsoft an email. If you hear about this, write them an email. Enough emails will show that consumers are displeased with things and could get it to change. This should be a learning experience for MS, not a slap in the face to one consumer who got screwed by Microsoft because some store was not held accountable for it's actions.
This mentality is stupid. Write Microsoft an email. If you hear about this, write them an email. Enough emails will show that consumers are displeased with things and could get it to change. This should be a learning experience for MS, not a slap in the face to one consumer who got screwed by Microsoft because some store was not held accountable for it's actions.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Kind of moot when the op, the victim himself, didn't hold MS accountable. In fact, he gave them even more money.
ChimpanzeeThat
Member
I work for an entertainment supplier in the UK, we do DVD's, CD's, Blu-Ray and of course Video Game stuff for big retailers, i've been doing it around 5 years.
For the big releases like Call Of Duty, GTA and Halo, the company might mark the box with "do not display/sell" but nothing the customer would ever see.
I've never seen stickers on actual products though because that would mean removing the cellophane wrapper and we're not suppose to do that. I heard of Gamestation and Asda (a supermarket) here in the UK getting into trouble for removing cellophane and taking games out of the cases, which they would then use for display purposes.
For the big releases like Call Of Duty, GTA and Halo, the company might mark the box with "do not display/sell" but nothing the customer would ever see.
I've never seen stickers on actual products though because that would mean removing the cellophane wrapper and we're not suppose to do that. I heard of Gamestation and Asda (a supermarket) here in the UK getting into trouble for removing cellophane and taking games out of the cases, which they would then use for display purposes.