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[Choc]

I do not understand this. I mean, a store buys a product from the creator. The store now owns this copy of the product. Surely the store can do with it what they wish?

There are contracts around the sales of product that must be adhered to.

I wrote a thing about street dates last year

very Australian specific but a bit of it flows to the USA

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2011/10/why-street-date-breaks-are-bad-for-the-games-industry-as-a-whole/

 

[FyreWulff]

This kind of pro-corporation talk is really scary

The idea that MS is somehow obligated to allow people to connect to their servers with copies of games people only have because of a broken contract is just as silly.

For some reason the store is treated like Robin Hood even though they broke a contract they had to sign to even get the copies in the first place. MS can't discern between pirate and actual discs this far out. Because pirate copies are 1:1 digital copies of the retail disc. Hence the gamertag whitelist.

Banned Xboxes can still play games. The copy that the consumer got off the back of the truck still works. MS is under no obligation to allow you onto Live.

 

[polyh3dron]

So you bought it early and I am assuming you know that people have been banned before for playing early released games while signed in. So why'd you do it?

Your post just makes you seem like such a victim and Microsoft is so evil.

I would just think "I have a legit copy, there's no way MS would ban someone for playing a legit copy, they're not that evil, and why should I hide my console from XBL, I've done nothing illegal" and then boom.

 

[Dabanton]

its not awesome at all, its not super good and its just a fact of development that this happens

You guys won't see it at all

Is it some sort of title update to the game?

 

[Cake Boss]

Wait, this game has 2 dics? WTF?

For the love of god please don't let this be another BF3 where I have install the game for HD graphics, My 20GB barely has any room left.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

In terms of paying the vendor the proper amount of money, yes he did.

Nothing proves he did this on his end or the stores end.

 

[element]

I do not understand this. I mean, a store buys a product from the creator. The store now owns this copy of the product. Surely the store can do with it what they wish?

Actually most stores don't buy directly from the manufacturer. They buy from a distributor.
The store can do what they want with it, but they do have to pay the consequences for doing so. Which can go from storages in future shipments to fines or even in very remote situations prosecution.
Many of these grey stores actually will attempt to go around a fixed ship date and sell items at a premium, which isn't good for anyone.

 

[Risette]

The idea that MS is somehow obligated to allow people to connect to their servers with copies of games people only have because of a broken contract is just as silly.

For some reason the store is treated like Robin Hood even though they broke a contract they had to sign to even get the copies in the first place. MS can't discern between pirate and actual discs this far out. Because pirate copies are 1:1 digital copies of the retail disc. Hence the gamertag whitelist.

Banned Xboxes can still play games. The copy that the consumer got off the back of the truck still works. MS is under no obligation to allow you onto Live.

Nearly nobody in this thread is treating the store like "Robin Hood." Most people (including myself) hold them at fault for this and feel they should be punished.

 

[Einbroch]

Are people making the distinction between legitimately purchasing a copy ahead of time and what the OP did? The OP did not buy the game. He was essentially handed a copy under the table and was told to play it until launch, when he would then buy the game. The game isn't his.

If a store sells a game to someone ahead of time, the consumer is at no fault, in my opinion. The situation in this topic is different. It might be a minor distinction, but it's an important one in this topic.

Not that this SHOULD matter, because all MS needs to do is have a service like Steam that locks the game (at least from online) until a certain time or unless MS themselves activates a gamertag (for reviewers).

 

[Retro_]

Even then nothing he did hurts the corporation or the people working for it. His money goes down the food chain just as it would a week from now. If Microsoft wants to get mad they could you know use that private info the subscriber supplies to contact them and find out who broke the street date.

He tried to go online with the game.

I believe Stinkles said they're still trying to set up features online up until the day of release.

I can only imagine what a pain in the ass that must be with a bunch of people who got early copies through whatever means already playing on it.

So I imagine that's why these zero tolerance measures are in place

 

[Dug]

its not awesome at all, its not super good and its just a fact of development that this happens

You guys won't see it at all

Is this what you are talking about?

I assume he's just taking about the fact that we put whitelisted everyone in the media with a copy so they have access to all our pre-launch hoppers

 

[Jake Tower]

I do not understand this. I mean, a store buys a product from the creator. The store now owns this copy of the product. Surely the store can do with it what they wish?

It's the retail equivalent of embargoes on game information in the enthusiast press.

 

[MotionBlue]

This type of topic happens every year. Coincidentally around the same time too(COD season).

Why do you people act surprised? Microsoft doesn't exactly have a good reputation, or history, for customer service.

 

[Tunavi]

Wait, this game has 2 dics? WTF?

For the love of god please don't let this be another BF3 where I have install the game for HD graphics, My 20GB barely has any room left.

your prayers have gone unanswered.

you'll need 8 gigs available.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Are people making the distinction between legitimately purchasing a copy ahead of time and what the OP did? The OP did not buy the game. He was essentially handed a copy under the table and was told to play it until launch, when he would then buy the game. The game isn't his.

If a store sells a game to someone ahead of time, the consumer is at no fault, in my opinion. The situation in this topic is different. It might be a minor distinction, but it's an important one in this topic.

Not that this SHOULD matter, because all MS needs to do is have a service like Steam that locks the game (at least from online) until a certain time or unless MS themselves activates a gamertag (for reviewers).

What? Am I misreading something he clearly says in the first post he bought the game.

 

[netBuff]

The idea that MS is somehow obligated to allow people to connect to their servers with copies of games people only have because of a broken contract is just as silly.

For some reason the store is treated like Robin Hood even though they broke a contract they had to sign to even get the copies in the first place. MS can't discern between pirate and actual discs this far out. Because pirate copies are 1:1 digital copies of the retail disc. Hence the gamertag whitelist.

Banned Xboxes can still play games. The copy that the consumer got off the back of the truck still works. MS is under no obligation to allow you onto Live.

Yeah, why should Microsoft have any obligation to allow a paying user (Xbox Live Gold) that just purchased one of their games at a store (Halo 4) on their servers? /sarcasm

In plain old English: Microsoft is a terrible company for banning people that posses legally bought retail copies of the game. A customer can reasonably expect to not get his console banned for buying a legitimate Microsoft game at a store. Customers do not have to care about retailer agreements or the Halo 4 marketing plan.

 

[vocab]

Love the people here who are defending Microsoft.

You guys are hilarious.

 

[Einbroch]

What? Am I misreading something he clearly says in the first post he bought the game.

He later states he has no receipt and that they will ring him up on launch day.

There was no transaction, or if there was, it was completely off-the-books, or verbal.

 

[EatinOlives]

What is scary about it? It work in games. My livelihood depends on my job. Think of the people that worked on the game. You get upset because someone got their gamertag banned, but something like this could cause a game not to sell which could cost people their jobs at the developer (if it were to affect sales). This is why there are street dates and embargos.

Uh, nobody's going to lose their job over lack of sales because one guy broke the street date, dude.

And you should know this considering you're a dev.

 

[Choc]

Is this what you are talking about?

nope

and like i keep telling you don't get hyped or anything its nothing special, its nothing free, its not dlc etc

its just a major reason why MS is limiting the game right now

Don't think its breaking the NDA to say its not a BF3 style install....

 

[Retro_]

Uh, nobody's going to lose their job over lack of sales because one guy broke the street date, dude.

And you should know this considering you're a dev.

Yes this is the only case worldwide of something like this happening in history

Im sure hes the only one they sold it too early at that store because hes such a valued customer

 

[DopeyFish]

nope

and like i keep telling you don't get hyped or anything its nothing special, its nothing free, its not dlc etc

its just a major reason why MS is limiting the game right now

spartan ops?

 

[Choc]

The funny thing is one part of the reason street dates exist (except for super hype AAA games) is to level the playing field of retail....

edit: its not spartan ops.

Crikey guys.

Think about it. Game is not out yet, MS expects onslaught of gamers Nov 6th and not before.

 

[Homeboyd]

The funny thing is one part of the reason street dates exist (except for super hype AAA games) is to level the playing field of retail....

Ranks

 

[SMT]

Microsoft is ban-happy, what the fuck, people pay you money to get banned?

Here, have this Premium Ban.

You legitimately bought one of their products, and get a fuck you. lol

 

[JABEE]

Actually most stores don't buy directly from the manufacturer. They buy from a distributor.
The store can do what they want with it, but they do have to pay the consequences for doing so. Which can go from storages in future shipments to fines or even in very remote situations prosecution.
Many of these grey stores actually will attempt to go around a fixed ship date and sell items at a premium, which isn't good for anyone.

How often do stores purchase items through wholesalers? Is it mostly smaller in terms of size and larger in terms of location numbers stores like GameStop?

 

[polyh3dron]

Nothing proves he did this on his end or the stores end.

I'm going off of what is in the OP. That thing you chastised me for not comprehending properly.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

What? Am I misreading something he clearly says in the first post he bought the game.

iwanttoseethereciepts.gif

I'm going off of what is in the OP. That thing you chastised me for not comprehending properly.

In the OP he said he has no reciept and the store didn't ring up the sale.

 

[Xenon]

Also, I don't have a receipt. Bought it from a local game shop; they said they'd "ring it out" on launch day. Obviously a bit shady- but far from fucking stealing.

Yeah, just a bit shady. It's the stores fault for selling it to you not MS.

 

[DopeyFish]

Ranks

I dunnnnnnno

that would be

too easy of a victory

 

[StuBurns]

nope

and like i keep telling you don't get hyped or anything its nothing special, its nothing free, its not dlc etc

its just a major reason why MS is limiting the game right now

Don't think its breaking the NDA to say its not a BF3 style install....

This is a really interesting thing, because if it's the game is fucked, and is getting a day one patch, I wonder about the validity of the reviews we'll see.

People were irritated that MoH wasn't reviewed ahead of time, but it shouldn't be if that day one patch is vital to it's quality.

Halo is the kind of game where MS could make anything they want in the NDA and people will sign it, even super sketchy shit like Konami did with MGS4.


EDIT: The last post makes me think the game has dedicated servers, and they're not ready.

 

[FyreWulff]

Yeah, why should Microsoft have any obligation to allow a paying user (Xbox Live Gold) that just purchased one of their games at a store (Halo 4) on their servers? /sarcasm

And just because you bought a TV from Sam's Club and have a current membership doesn't mean they can't ban and bar you from the store. There's limits in both directions.

In plain old English: Microsoft is a terrible company for banning people that posses legally bought retail copies of the game. A customer can reasonably expect to not get his console banned for buying a legitimate Microsoft game at a store. Customers do not have to care about retailer agreements or the Halo 4 marketing plan.

Except the copy in question wasn't even legally bought - the store never rang it up and there's no receipt. As far as all the systems are concerned, that copy is still supposed to be in a box with an unbroken orange seal.

 

[Homeboyd]

I dunnnnnnno

that would be

too easy of a victory

Frankie fiddles = we get ranks

I poo

 

[Tunavi]

Love the people here who are defending Microsoft.

You guys are hilarious.

yeah Fuck that company that just spent over $100 million on a video game I really appreciate. fuck the system man.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

What risk? Playing a game before release is not a risk.

It is now. More and more I think consoles going online has been bad.

 

[Choc]

This is a really interesting thing, because if it's the game is fucked, and is getting a day one patch, I wonder about the validity of the reviews we'll see.

People were irritated that MoH wasn't reviewed ahead of time, but it shouldn't be if that day one patch is vital to it's quality.

Halo is the kind of game where MS could make anything they want in the NDA and people will sign it, even super sketchy shit like Konami did with MGS4.

shite guys its not a day 1 patch


arrrrrrrrrgh, totally misreading me. Why wouldn't a consumer see a day 1 patch?

and FWIW teh Halo 4 nda is very fair indeed. We can mention we have it for example. A recent NDA i signed we couldn't even acknowledge we had the disc :|

 

[netBuff]

yeah Fuck that company that just spent over $100 million on a video game I really appreciate. fuck the system man.

Why do you care about the amount of money MS allegedly (could be marketing bullshit) spent on developing and marketing Halo 4? And why does it make such a blatantly anti-consumer move acceptable? A person paying $60 should demand to be able to play it without hassle.

The funny thing is one part of the reason street dates exist (except for super hype AAA games) is to level the playing field of retail....

Which is something end-users don't have to care for because it is against their interest as consumers.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Tweet MajorNelson and the other 6 or 7 XBL guys who are active on twitter. I had people banned (Some for life) within a matter of minutes for sending me stupid messages

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

He later states he has no receipt and that they will ring him up on launch day.

There was no transaction, or if there was, it was completely off-the-books, or verbal.

Seriously? OP isn't what we refer to as a sharp one if thats the case.

 

[Prologue]

If anything, it just shows that MS can't tell a difference between a "modded" copy and a store bought copy.

 

[Zeal]

I don't care what people say, MS is not in the wrong this time.

 

[DopeyFish]

shite guys its not a day 1 patch


arrrrrrrrrgh, totally misreading me. Why wouldn't a consumer see a day 1 patch?

and FWIW teh Halo 4 nda is very fair indeed. We can mention we have it for example. A recent NDA i signed we couldn't even acknowledge we had the disc :|

must be ranks!

 

[Wildesy]

It wasn't his responsibility to know that MS said that, how do you know he knew that for sure?

If he doesn't want to get banned it's his responsibility to know it. Do you expect Microsoft to confirm with every Xbox owner that you will be banned for playing the game early? They did their part, they made the announcement and it's undoubtedly been in the T&Cs for a long while now.

If anything, it just shows that MS can't tell a difference between a "modded" copy and a store bought copy.

I guess when you think about it, that has probably been obvious for a while now. Modded consoles have had Live access for yonks since the last ban wave that I heard about. If they could detect it without issue, why wouldn't they just be banning users automatically/at will?

 

[polyh3dron]

He later states he has no receipt and that they will ring him up on launch day.

There was no transaction, or if there was, it was completely off-the-books, or verbal.

But money still changed hands, receipt or no receipt.

 

[Tunavi]

Why do you care about the amount of money MS allegedly (could be marketing bullshit) spent on developing and marketing Halo 4? And why does it make such a blatantly anti-consumer move acceptable? A person paying $60 should demand to be able to play it without hassle.

It's being pirated since it got leaked. They're trying to prevent pirates from playing the game.

Do you people think games just come from magical trees that grow on sunlight and water?

Its not even anti consumer, it anti pirate

 

[xJavonta]

You took a risk and came out on the wrong side. Deal with it.

This is why the industry is fucked. People actually think shit like this is acceptable.

I don't care what people say, MS is not in the wrong this time.

Yeah, your avatar suggests that you're a bit of a biased on this issue.

 

[polyh3dron]

If he doesn't want to get banned it's his responsibility to know it. Do you expect Microsoft to confirm with every Xbox owner that you will be banned for playing the game early? They did their part, they made the announcement and it's undoubtedly been in the T&Cs for a long while now.

So after I buy every game I should scour the Internet for the console manufacturer's latest press releases to date every time to make sure I can safely play them. Got it. Not everyone is that Internet savvy.

 

[StuBurns]

shite guys its not a day 1 patch


arrrrrrrrrgh, totally misreading me. Why wouldn't a consumer see a day 1 patch?

and FWIW teh Halo 4 nda is very fair indeed. We can mention we have it for example. A recent NDA i signed we couldn't even acknowledge we had the disc :|

I thought dedicated servers, but apparently they confirmed they don't have them. This is going to irritate me for days.

 

[EatinOlives]

Yes this is the only case worldwide of something like this happening in history

Im sure hes the only one they sold it too early at that store because hes such a valued customer

The amount of street-broken copies is damn minimal for any game. It's never going to cost people jobs due to "lost sales" from street-broken copies, that's just silly hyperbole.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

What kind of retail store even does something like this?
Uhh yeah man take the game but I can't give you a receipt till launch day.. The fuu?