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Koji Igarashi Kickstarts Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night (2.5D, backdash, 2018)
- Thread starter PranooY
- Start date
StarCreator
Member
No she wasnt
There was no sexual intention with her old child designs.
I think we have very different ideas of what "moe" means there.
Order of Ecclesia was able to skip 2007 because of Dracula X Chronicles more than likely, so it gave IGA's main team more time to think and come up with ideas.
While the game isn't winning points on originality, it's probably the best blend of Classicvania and Metroidvania the series ever saw, and that alone makes it one of the better titles.
We also have to be mindful on certain staff between games. For example, Harmony of Dissonance and Curse of Darkness are two games with crazy copy-paste design, and they share a great deal of staff. The same director between both games too, IIRC.
Not really a fan of the innocent looking, big breasted, stockings and garter wearing (why the garter?) nun with glasses. With a few fixes that design could have been a lot better. I'm tired of the innocent looking big breasted woman design, at least give her face some more life, make her looks as if she's ready for action, but I guess making her look submissive while having a smoking hot body is the point of the design... sadly.
No she wasnt
There was no sexual intention with her old child designs.
Moe doesn't have anything to do with being sexualized, try again.
All good, that wasn't what I took it as but that's fine.
Theonik
Member
That is indeed a moe loli. Trust me I'm an expert Loliologist.No she wasnt
There was no sexual intention with her old child designs.
You get my point. He turned her into a sexualized child, who only talks about boobs. That paired with the Sonia Belmont commentary, female writing during decades, and the designs for this game, at this point, I'm about to say he's just plain misogynist.
Both Judgement and the PSP remake of Rondo of Blood were produced by Iga so I don't really get the complaint. Judgement gave everyone terrible redesigns and new personalities.
You're giving Iga too much credit even if in the opposite direction of what people usually do.
You're giving Iga too much credit even if in the opposite direction of what people usually do.
AcademicSaucer
Member
The last Igavania was the best since Aria of Sorrow tho.
Davey Cakes
Member
Shanoa in OoE is definitely one of the best female character designs in any game, not just Castlevania.
Team Alucard
Banned
The art is pretty bad but its not like you're going to ever see it outside of very brief cut scenes. The actual in game models and environments we've seen thus far look great, and that's far more important.
I mean, was anyone really that torn up over Death's mickey mouse gloves in Portrait of Ruin?
I mean, was anyone really that torn up over Death's mickey mouse gloves in Portrait of Ruin?
Pyrrhus
Member
...What?
I mean, I'm pretty sure he was press ganged into making the Wii game entirely. Even then, he didn't write the dialog or design the characters. I have issues with how Konami treated CV and him, but I don't put the quality of that particular embarrassment at his feet. I mean, misogynist? Again, I just don't even know what you're talking about when it comes to Igarashi. Some sexist ideas, yeah, maybe. He's a Japanese guy in his 50s. But that doesn't mean he hates women or that a spin-off game he was mandated to make with a guest artist is proof of that hate.
I don't even hold him directly responsible for the Monique design. I just think he should have his character designer take another pass with an eye toward historical influences and fashion and mores in the time and location the game is set in. I don't mind him removing Sonia Belmont from the continuity either. The Belmont Clan being born of a tryst between Alucard and an underage Sonia was a stupid direction to take the story. If you really hate Igarashi that much, why do you spend so much time in this thread fighting with people who are basically his diehard fans?
Except he was also in charge of Symphony of the Night which you were just praising her design and characterization in. You kind of dodged that part completely when you started to throw around Japanese buzz words you don't actually understand the meaning of.
She started as a moe lolita then "Igarashi happened" and she turned into the character you were praising.
He also was in charge of OoC which is generally agreed upon as having a good female lead as well.
You're ignoring things and cherry picking the things you can bash him for because it fits your argument better, just like when you replied to me earlier.
For freaking real. Perfect design that was unique, cool, classy, dynamic, attractive, etc.
Japan simply doesn't put out that kind of characters anymore.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Spiritreaver
Member
Agreed. Great, time to replay OoE for the 50th time.
butman
Member
Shifty
Member
Dominique's design looks like it could come straight out of a Tales or Star Ocean game to me. There's little cohesion to her outfit, just a collection of clothes cut in odd ways with signature accessories to make it fantasy and cosplay-able. The art style also just looks flat and cheap compared to Order of Ecclesia.
I'd love to hear the explanation for why she's wearing a garter over her leotard like that and high heels as someone with presumably a job that involves moving around crumbly old castles. Is it because she isn't a girl wearing stockings for a change and they wanted something else to draw attention to her legs or something.
I don't know, there's no one particular part of it I really dislike, but I think there's a lack of a unifying theme, like the elements that might be striking in their own way have just been thrown together without thinking about the overall effect. The whole outfit just says 'bog standard, interchangeable 2017 jrpg character' to me rather than 'Exorcist from the world of Bloodstained'.
The other two I'm indifferent towards, but on the whole I much prefer the art from Ecclesia that mixed gothic with anime. Particularly the way they start with Edwardian high collars, blouses/shirts and ribbons/scarves and then add layers from there, it gave a cohesive look to the cast that helps inform the world/period. Shanoa's character design has far more depth than this lot.
I'd love to hear the explanation for why she's wearing a garter over her leotard like that and high heels as someone with presumably a job that involves moving around crumbly old castles. Is it because she isn't a girl wearing stockings for a change and they wanted something else to draw attention to her legs or something.
I don't know, there's no one particular part of it I really dislike, but I think there's a lack of a unifying theme, like the elements that might be striking in their own way have just been thrown together without thinking about the overall effect. The whole outfit just says 'bog standard, interchangeable 2017 jrpg character' to me rather than 'Exorcist from the world of Bloodstained'.
The other two I'm indifferent towards, but on the whole I much prefer the art from Ecclesia that mixed gothic with anime. Particularly the way they start with Edwardian high collars, blouses/shirts and ribbons/scarves and then add layers from there, it gave a cohesive look to the cast that helps inform the world/period. Shanoa's character design has far more depth than this lot.
Massive boobs aside, it's just a really crappy design. I don't like any of these new characters' looks, really. I don't really care for any non-monster design we've seen so far besides Miriam.
Definitely. Top tier design.
Her design in Judgment was a crime against humanity.
Definitely. Top tier design.
Her design in Judgment was a crime against humanity.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
These posts are so embarrassingly dumb and/or disingenuous. Holy shit guys.
It's not about her chest size and you all know it. People explicitly criticized the costume and otaku-bait art style, for crying out loud.
Tragic.The difference in quality and artistry is massive. I think it might be your memories that are faulty.
[pics]
If only...Probably because they don't know how to draw non-sexualized females so they're stuck to making them look like stiff mannequins.
I'm only joking. Sort of.
Uh, you do realize this is a crowdfunded game...? I'd say feedback is more than warranted.
Funny, isn't it?
You said they were "body-shaming", which is just as nonsensical (and borderline offensive).
Kind of like how people attack the design's critics by calling them "puritan", "body-shamers", or implying they are so dumb as to not believe large-chested women exist in real life? Yeah, I hate that kind of bullshit too.
Yeah as soon as I saw that character's design I immediately knew there'd be a bunch of complaints here.
Rabid Dwarf 76
Member
You are correct. It goes both ways. It seems most would rather throw insults at the other side than have a level headed discussion. It's frustrating for those that try to have a real conversation only to have a few people throw a some bullshit zingers out and then a pile on beings. The discussion dies and the conversation turns unreasonable. It sucks. People no longer know own to disagree with someone and still keep the conversation civil.
Yeah, you probably wouldn't be able to tell from the thread, but it's actually possible to state that you like or dislike a design without hurling insults or acting like there's something inherently wrong with it one way or the other.
No doubt this will fall on deaf ears and the thread will continue the same way though.
Edit:
This is part of a larger problem IMO and it's only getting worse as time goes on.
How many times have to be said that Igarashi didn't fully create, direct or make Symphony of the Night? he came in halfway through. that he took the credit is super shameful, as Hagihara deserves it too.
Maria's change in design might have been Ayami's thing, as it was changed on the first opportunity another artist got his hands on her. Also, the design is the LEAST of its problems. He just turned her into some sex joke, a child sex joke. I just can't.
And now we got sexy submissive nuns with skintight habits and big boobs. I mean, do we need more evidence that he doesn't have a female sensibility really.
I gotta admit, Shanoa is a great character. Her development is still chained to a male, but whatever, it's leagues better than his other protagonists.
This game is whatever is left of my favorite series. I still root for it. But Igarashi makes it hard.
Igarashi didn't fully create any of those games, yet you give him full blame for the stuff you don't like. You're not even remotely subtle about this. You like Maria's design in SoTN so that might have been Kojima, but the designs you don't like in Judgement and Bloodstained are firmly his fault and couldn't be the result of him letting the character designer do what they want.
Igarashi was the director for the second half of the game, Hagiwara in his own words was the producer and programer. I don't see why it's a massive leap of faith to assume that the director for the second half of the game would be calling the shots. Furthermore in the interview I've read with the two of them Igarashi was the one talking about the story elements and writing the story, so I don't really think it's a huge leap to believe he was the one who did the characters and story, it's certainly more telling than anything your presenting.
Furthermore I've never seen Igarashi ever act like her deserved all the credit for the game and I'm not really sure why you're acting like he is. If anything he's come off as being rather humble.
Maria's character design changed drastically I'm every game she was in, if anything her design in Judgement is closer to the original than any other game she was in.
Honestly, I'm kind of at a loss as to why you find the version of her character in Judgement so incredibly offensive. She isn't a "child sex joke", they used a younger version of her character and gave her a complex about her breast size for a couple of jokes. This isn't something massively out of the ordinary, it's a common anime trope and it's a younger version of her character so you acting like it ruins her makes no sense. Her character in Rondo was a joke too, it didn't make people not take her seriously in SoTN.
If you want to hate on the guy I honestly couldn't care much less but if you're going to try to convince people you have good reasons for it you're going to have to try to act like you're not just selectively blaming him and maybe come up with some better reasons too.
He was calling the shots by then. He was the producer, the manager, simply the main man of Castlevania and no decision was over him. I can safely blame him for everything that came up in his games during his tenure, while also admitting he kept good design through most of them. Which is why i'm interested in Bloodstained in the first place.
Ayami Kojima DID influence the writing and design of SOTN, while I'm not sure Tabata had that authority in Judgment.
How nice must be being named director when you got all the blueprints and just have to execute half of the work. And then be cherised as the mastermind behind it!
I'll give you this one. SOTN story while minimalist, was not bad.
Yeah it weas really humble of him when he retconned every game not made by him after his hiring.
Admirable, pure art.
Rondo is not canon anymore. And it was a cute joke character back then, not a sex joke character. it also came out like 15 years before Judgment and times had changed by then.
I don't search for those reasons. I want to focus on the game, but his hands are noticeable on the bad aspects, and I'm not sure I'm seeing a stellar showing of his other, supposed,strenghts.
Pyrrhus
Member
CV64, Circle of the Moon, and CV Legends all made a dog's breakfast of the lore and weren't very good games on top of that. It was a little imperious to say they're not canon but at the time he was trying to mold the series from Conan the Barbarian with a whip fighting the Universal Movie Monsters into something you could hang a modern series on. If one timeline had to go, the right one was chosen.
STOP RIGHT THERE
I'd dare to say CV64/Legacy of Darkness had far more interesting stories than any Igavania, with sensible relatable characters and a great air of mistery, not to mention some good twists (Malus, Gilles de Rais).
Those games just needed a next iteration. and CV would have sailed smoothly into the PS2 generation.
Igarashi was calling the shots when SoTN shipped. Where exactly is this evidence that Igarashi basically did nothing in developing the game? I'm under the impression it's a baseless claim especially since the interview I saw with the two of them Hagihara didn't even mention that he worked as a director for the first half of the game. If you have any actual evidence for this assumption I'd like to see it, as well as whatever led you to believe that Kojima had influence in the story.
I also want to see where you claims that Igarashi is denying others credit comes from, I asked you about it and you changed subject to claim he retconned the games he didn't work on after he started working on CV out of continuity. That claim is actually a false one, he delegated 64, LoD and CotM to being side stories. You could look up his interviews to prove this, but honestly it's obvious even just looking at the games as Cornell is in Judgement and wouldn't have been if your claim was true.
I'm not really sure what you're talking about with Rondo not being canon. Are you referring to the remake or the statement about the SNES game not being canon? Or something else completely?
Again it's not a sex joke, she doesn't talk about sex, have sex with anyone. He has a couple of lines about how big female character's breasts are. I'm not saying it's fine art, if anything it's a cultural difference. What people consider to be funny and/or acceptable differs from culture to culture.
You don't seem to really know what Igarashi is responsible for and what he's not responsible for and until you actually show me some evidence I'll continue to dismiss your claims as conjecture as I've never seen you present anything that backs your claims up aside from Hagihara being the director of the first half of development for one game Igarashi worked on.
I'm pretty sure we're never going to see eye to eye on this. I personally trust him as the head of this project because he made a bunch of games I enjoyed and he surpassed SoTN several times. You're completely entitled to your own opinion, but I take issue with you presenting conjecture as fact among other things.
Pyrrhus
Member
CV64 was interesting but severely flawed. On top of that it was incompatible with Bloodlines and the original Dracula novel. And it had dumb stuff like skeletons riding motorcycles in 1844 and that TNT-carrying section before that existed as well. It also featured a non-Belmont wielding the Vampire Killer in Reinhardt Schneider. Similarly, Circle of the Moon took place in 1820 which severely crowds out SotN in 1796 and CV64 in 1844-1852 and features a third non-Belmont in Nathan Graves. He didn't even fight with the Vampire Killer. So you're left with a handful of tiles that badly complicated the series and weren't great, so the best solution was to cut them out of the continuity.
Igarashi was big on not deliberately contradicting the original novel and on having elements of the time period in the game, such as not having a clocktower in Lament of Innocence because clocks didn't exist yet. (Admittedly kind of pointless since the original CV breaks this rule.) Similarly he viewed CV1-3, Rondo, and SotN as the pillars of the franchise and protected their place in the timeline as well. Of course he was going to cut out those titles.
While I might agree with you at some extent, it's not like CV timeline is some sacred bastion of cohesion. There are lots of plot holes, lots of premature Dracula resurrections and lots, LOTS of anachronisms. The clock thing was cute but I'm 100% one of the pre Aria games have robots and stuff.
Guy has an eye for details, which is the biggest praise I can give to him (Didn't Curse of Darkness have like 398613298 craftable weapons?). That and his insistence of giving player additional playable characters for free, which are always welcome.
Can't argue in favor of the motorcyle skeletons though.
Worked well enough in Lords of Shadow. We all know he just did it because he wanted his own origin story. which was decent, except for the part he literally firdged every woman in the game. Which brings the argument to the start: Guy is not very good with women.
It was fantastic. Best SOTN clone imo. IGA literally stole its complementary weapon effects system for all his remaining games.
CotM is a very solid entry IMO. I think the 64 games get trashed a lot more than they deserve, they are far from perfect but they have their place. Legends I honestly agree with him writing out (The only game he actually removed). It's cool to have a female Belmont but aside from that it didn't have anything going for it. Putting Dracula into the Belmont bloodline was also pretty stupid imo.
I wouldn't quite go that far, but I think the games had more going for them than they get credit for. It would have been interesting to see what that team would have come up with if the had a chance to work on another installment or two though.
Circle of the Moon is one of the best castlevania games imo :/
Pyrrhus
Member
I appreciate Circle of the Moon for being a great launch title for the GBA. Really catchy first area theme, too. But the card system and the infuriating random drops that they chose to dole them out with badly hurt the game. The game was good for a first purchase for the GBA in 2000 but it doesn't stand toe-to-toe with the console entries, and for the purposes of this discussion, it did fit in poorly with the main continuity. So removing it from that main continuity wasn't hubris. It was proper stewardship of the franchise. That's my main thrust in bringing those titles up.
I actually enjoyd CotM more than SOTN. I know I'll be labelled as heretic but SOTN comes after AoS and CotM for me
Edit:
SOTN looks and sounds really good but it was piss easy for me. You can cheese these games but I didn't cheese SOTN and it was still so damn easy. I actually started doing self-imposed challenges because of that.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Circle of the Moon was a decent launch title, but it's severely outclassed by every Igavania (yes, even Harmony of Dissonance).
IMO of course. The stiff controls and meandering level-design date the game terribly.
IMO of course. The stiff controls and meandering level-design date the game terribly.
Harmony had the best bosses of the GBA era, but then, every resource went to the bosses in that game.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Well, that and collecting furniture.
Actually didn't Harmony have an absurd number of bosses? That game was all over the place.
Alex_Mexico
Member
CotM shits all over Harmony of Dissonance! Hell, the music of HoD alone, which is garbage, is enough to put it in the bottom of the pile of otherwise great Igavania. And I don't care CotM wasn't actually made by Iga it's still a very worthy entry and at LEAST better than Harmony.
My biggest gripe with CotM was the dark graphics but nowadays if you play it in a GBA SP, Micro, DS or WiiU VC that's not a problem anymor.