Different people can be disappointed for different reasons and, get this, a single person can even be disappointed for multiple reasons at the same time. I know, mindblowing.
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Kotaku: Underwhelming Gay Romance Options In ME: Andromeda Disappoints Many Fans
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
Different people can be disappointed for different reasons and, get this, a single person can even be disappointed for multiple reasons at the same time. I know, mindblowing.
PulseONE
Member
My Shepard was celibate until they added gay male romances, if these half fleshed out ones are the only options in Andromeda, I guess my Ryder will have to go the same route, this is really disappointing after Dragon Age Inquisition, hell they even brought up the concept of homophobia in that game, I thought Bioware had moved past this...
God no, that was the worst.
Unfortunately, the people who make Dragon Age aren't the same ones who make Mass Effect. The Dragon Age team seems to generally be a whole lot better at inclusiveness and LGBT+ content.
PulseONE
Member
Hmm, I see that would explain it
Would also explain the world of difference with all the lesbian options
This was solid gold. Hopefully this spate of bad press and fan umbrage prompts them to integrate more gay romances in patches and DLC, to balance the scales. They'd generate a tremendous amount of good will (at a time when they need it badly) if they did that.
Unfortunately David Gaider no longer works there, but they still have aware and receptive writers as far as I know.
Yabberwocky
Member
There are pros and cons to it, for me. The con is that you can't specifically have character arcs like Dorian. The pro is that you could romance a plot relevant character, where they were male or female, regardless of sexuality. If you want a plot relevant romance for some drama in DA2, Anders and Isabela had overarching plot relevant roles, as opposed to Fenris and Merrill who weren't directly plot related. Bioware is also kind of a bit dodge in that the leading plot characters out of your companions are always straight, and the LGB characters are the same archetypes over and over. Liara, Dorian and kinda Kaidan are the first ones to break the mould, though Kaidan might not even be in your game depending on your ME1 choices. Morrigan/Miranda/Cassandra/Cora and Alistair/Cullen/DA:I's spoiler character/Liam/(possibly Jaal?) are all more relevant to the main plot, and are all straight romances. In comparison, the supporting rogue-ish types, Leliana/Zevran/Sera/Josie/Iron Bull are more diverse in their sexualities, and in what I think has been an entirely accidental unfortunate implication, they all stray towards the criminal side of things with their pasts. Cortez and Traynor break this mould, but they are barely in ME3. Until Bioware stops making the more plot relevant characters automatically straight, whilst also reusing the same archetypes over and over again, I'd prefer a DA2 approach.
I feel like comparing Andromeda to ME1-3 is a bit unfair in a way, the first series has 3 games of characters to build up romance partners, and at the same time they only put in a gay romance option in the 3rd. Though Off the top of my head I believe there were files found in ME1 for male romance with Kaiden.
Not that excuses Andromeda of course, for all the time they had there seems to be a serious lack of this sort of stuff that they have done in previous games with less time.
Considering Ryder, like Shepard, of either gender have pretty similar if not the same lines for almost every conversation, I don't know why they don't do something similar to Skyrim. Anyone can marry anyone of either sex or any species in Skyrim, sure it's not very in depth in that game, but it gives everyone more options. Sure it would need tweaking for either Ryder, but I'd assume having a general base romance scene for each romancable character that is then changed slightly would be a good start. Better than what I believe is 2 almost entirely animated romance scenes for two characters and then some fades to black for the rest of them.
Not that excuses Andromeda of course, for all the time they had there seems to be a serious lack of this sort of stuff that they have done in previous games with less time.
Considering Ryder, like Shepard, of either gender have pretty similar if not the same lines for almost every conversation, I don't know why they don't do something similar to Skyrim. Anyone can marry anyone of either sex or any species in Skyrim, sure it's not very in depth in that game, but it gives everyone more options. Sure it would need tweaking for either Ryder, but I'd assume having a general base romance scene for each romancable character that is then changed slightly would be a good start. Better than what I believe is 2 almost entirely animated romance scenes for two characters and then some fades to black for the rest of them.
It's shitty to be relegated to this after the trajectory made with ME3 and Inquisition. Still no m/m alien romance, and no romance on the actual squad. As the dev that is essentially the cutting edge on the subject of equality in their video games, it really sucks.
It's a true shame because Gil is a pretty good character, but he's still a side character (and so was Cortez). All they had to do was make a male squadmate a romance option. If Jaal was bi we'd be seeing far less complaints about this. As it stands the only Bioware game that's had a true m/m only romance with a plot relevant PC is Inquisition, and even then Dorian is one of the few companions you can make leave the Inquisition altogether.
It's a true shame because Gil is a pretty good character, but he's still a side character (and so was Cortez). All they had to do was make a male squadmate a romance option. If Jaal was bi we'd be seeing far less complaints about this. As it stands the only Bioware game that's had a true m/m only romance with a plot relevant PC is Inquisition, and even then Dorian is one of the few companions you can make leave the Inquisition altogether.
I swear, if they did this I would sell my fucking copy of ME:A and never buy another Bioware game again.
It's bad enough that we have to settle for scraps in the game that we already bought. To have to then pay for some type of meaningful gay male romance option would be a slap in the face.
Even if we were to ignore Dragon Age, this is still a step backwards even from ME3's m/m content. Which took three games to get. Come on, Bioware.
Patrick Weekes, who took over Gaider's role as the lead writer on Dragon Age, recently came out as pansexual.
I think you make some good points about how and who they've chosen to interweave with the main plot, but yes, the ideal solution would be for them to stop shorthanding their LGB options. I want characters with their own personalities and preferences, likes and dislikes, and just homogenizing romances would make them feel more like Sims characters that can be shaped by your inputs instead of "people" you get to know and discover and, yes, maybe even get rejected by. I know these are power fantasies and there's always an element of pandering and romance/sex as a reward, but the power dynamics between your "chosen one" leader character and its followers who are eager to do anything for you are dubious enough already, so to also take away a potential layer of identity from characters doesn't sit right with me.
I feel for my gay bros who wanted a deeper, more elaborate interactions, and even thrusting and slurping, and they should get that. That's on Bioware and it sucks they keep failing at that, but it was imo just as bad in DA2.
WaterAstro
Member
How about being disappointed that the entire game is shit. lol
A Link to the Past
Banned
I'm sure you went into the animation thread making a similar thread?
I do think that they were right to move away from the whole playersexual thing (though I'd also say that it was an overall better fit for Dragon Age, anyway, than it would be for Mass Effect) and that fixed orientations are the way to go (though when it comes to alien species from another galaxy, I also really think that "realism" or "it has to make sense" are somewhat bullshit excuses for not making them bi). But yeah, if you've got fixed orientations, you really need to make sure that, at the very least, the content available to different groups of people is of equal quality.
And I mean, this type of disparity can also be seen in some of the straight and lesbian romances, where some LIs get more and better content than others which, I think, also isn't fair to fans of these characters who get less content than, say, people who romanced Cora. Of course, they've at least got other options to fall back on so I don't want to equate that problem with the M/M romance issue but it is an issue nonetheless.
Yeah, you didn't get the point.
And I mean, this type of disparity can also be seen in some of the straight and lesbian romances, where some LIs get more and better content than others which, I think, also isn't fair to fans of these characters who get less content than, say, people who romanced Cora. Of course, they've at least got other options to fall back on so I don't want to equate that problem with the M/M romance issue but it is an issue nonetheless.
Yeah, you didn't get the point.
SatoAilDarko
Member
I finished watching the film Splice last night.
Now those were some uncomfortable (and in one case illogical) sex scenes.
Would love some body horror.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
honestly, most of the romance encounters in these games have been kind of underwhelming tbqh. The people who want male on male romance are, im guessing, a very small minority of the player base so its not at all surprising if they put even less effort than usual. Unless this is somehow unfair? id like to know why its not fair if thats the case.
I mean you're literally saying they put less effort in gay male representation, is that not unfair enough for you ?
Dandy Lyin
Member
I am actually totally fine with the gay male option wasn't a squadmate. What I think is bullshit is that Gil is completely under developed compared to the squadmates. He is a CC-generated nobody, and his arc is short and completely underwhelming. Non-squaddie relationships can be good(see DAI and even ME3), but it feels like no effort was put into Gil.
Right, I'll give you an example.
Jimmy is a straight guy. Jimmy likes Mass Effect so he buys Mass Effect: Andromeda for 60$. Throughout the game, he can choose one of three female LIs - all of whom are squadmates, all of whom have unique faces, extensive romance content, loyalty missions and two of whom get fully animated sex scenes - and two female flings specifically made for straight guys. And if Jimmy ever wants to play as a female Ryder (I know, who would want that? Silly me.), there'll be three lesbian romances for him to pick from, most of which have been designed for straight guys like him.
John is a gay guy. John likes Mass Effect so he buys Mass Effect: Andromeda for 60$. Throughout the game, he can choose one of one male LIs - who isn't a squadmate, has a generic character creator face, shoddily thrown together, unpolished romance content, no loyalty missions and no proper sex scene - and one male fling whose entire romance content was sloppily copy-pasted from its straight counterpart.
Does that sound fair to you?
(And let's not forget that they profit from having a reputation for being inclusive and LGBT-friendly. They can't, on the one hand, claim that and profit from it and, on the other hand, treat gay male players like an afterthought.)
lvl99 Pixel
Member
unfair based on which expectations? unless its worse than their usual (havent checked it out for the new game). Unfortunately if you want that romance, bioware will always cater to the largest demographic which, im just guessing here, is disproportionately straight male.
ill have a look at how it functions in this game because it sounds like it must be worse than usual.
That sounds unfortunate yes.
truestatic
Member
It really is a shame that Liam and Jaal
and Drack
and make a romanceable Krogan
ScaryShark
Banned
You're actively avoiding them but you know them to be universally terrible?
okay.gif
Considering how long some of them draw out (a good 40 to 50 hours) I'm surprised anyone could draw a conclusion on them this quickly. Especially if you're also actively avoiding them.
Dandy Lyin
Member
After Drack's loyalty mission,
Scott(maybe Sara too, not sure) has a flirt option with Drack. It's just a joke though, sadly.
truestatic
Member
Bioware are filthy teases. I guess we just kick that can down the road a ways.
You really don't see why fans are disappointed when they have only 2 romances available and they're not even fleshed out (no squadmates, no custom face, barely any development, etc) ? Just look at the picture in the OP lol. I don't see how catering to straight males means you can't also make an effort to please your LGBT fans, which Bioware has plenty of. Dragon Age Inquisition handled it much better 3 years ago.
TatteredHat
Member
That's disappointing, everyone should be able to share equally in the shitpile that is Bioware Romances.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
I get why they're disappointed comparing it to DA:I. The writer responsible for ME3 (if you dont count the uncredited Drew Karpyshyn) is now directing, with 3 new writers? im not sure if thats related to this issue exactly but I havent expected much from the series since.
I can't really understand how this happened to begin with. Sure having not everyone be pansexual and having actual character is great. But this is a game filled with aliens.
Why aren't at least the aliens bi fi they didn't want to create a fleshed out male gay character? It is not too much to think that if aliens can overcome being an entire different species they can overcome the sex of the main character. Combine that with the gay romances going to black and I doubt it was just an oversight.
Especially since the Lesbian options are pretty great.
I never play as male so according to much of the internet this should not really bother me but the only joy I got out of DA:I was shamelessly flirting with Dorian.
He really added depth to a game I hated.
Why aren't at least the aliens bi fi they didn't want to create a fleshed out male gay character? It is not too much to think that if aliens can overcome being an entire different species they can overcome the sex of the main character. Combine that with the gay romances going to black and I doubt it was just an oversight.
Especially since the Lesbian options are pretty great.
I never play as male so according to much of the internet this should not really bother me but the only joy I got out of DA:I was shamelessly flirting with Dorian.
He really added depth to a game I hated.
truestatic
Member
I mean, just to shoot down that little bit of logic, if you can overcome the difference in species to be attracted to an alien, surely you can at least overcome the difference in gender, right? Even if you're gay, why would Vetra's gender matter if her species isn't a deal breaker?
Not that I disagree that there should be more gay romances. I totally do. This little bit just struck me as funny.
Excellent point! I guess it is because the main character is us and deals with our human values and automatically divides the aliens between man and woman. Where the aliens might not even have two genders so they should not automatically work from our perspective.
Bioware gay romance options have always been scraps to me anyway. Dragon Age had Zevran (!?) but no Anders. Mass Effect 3 had no Johnny Vega (or whatever his name was). DA:I had Dorian which was a better attempt I guess but still not to my tastes. So, its pretty sad that things have actually regressed but it was never anything worth writing home about in the first place. Still, better than nothing I guess.
Anders was available as an LI for both male and female Hawke in DA2, though. There was also Fenris in DA2 and DAI didn't just have Dorian but also the Iron Bull. All in all, DAI was actually pretty good regarding LGBT content (though, of course, there'll always be the problem of a character not appealing to everyone - I've got that problem with Gil in Andromeda - but that's not exclusive to gay/bi LIs).