Generalized to the point of meaningless takes?
Like saying all white people are racist?
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LOreal Drops Transgender Model After All White People Racism Post
- Thread starter DogDude
- Start date
Generalized to the point of meaningless takes?
Like saying all white people are racist?
Nah, I'm still not seeing the chain of logic. Complicit is a lot more than just 'involved in' and even if it wasn't being born white does not mean some infant in complicit in racial violence. It's ludicrous.
Not looking to get into some drawn out semantic argument though, I'll agree to disagree.
Edit: You edited
Yeah, your edit makes more sense to me, but the logic is still flawed to me. A passive beneficiary is not responsible for the situation that gives those benefits, to me. They may be, but it's not inherent in being a beneficiary.I was taking my mom to get some prescriptions today and by average GAF standards most people would not label her a racist. Out of nowhere though we are leaving the parking lot and a black woman and her child walk by and as were leaving the parking spot she says "Oh that black woman was driving that Porsche" I immediately shot her some serious side eye and she realized what she had done and said she was sorry saying that.
What people just don't get is how ingrained this stuff is, and no matter how much people want to protest no one is perfect and everyone has room to grow. For starters we still have a long way to go even defining racism since so many people believe it only pertains to people in hoods carrying torches. And even then the PoTUS calls them very fine people.
Dongs Macabre
aka Daedalos42
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GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
She could have picked her words more wisely. The gist of what she is saying is true: white people benefit from their privilege, and those that don't actively fight against it are complicit in maintaining it.
Problem is, she just went in emotionally and phrased it poorly, which isn't likely to change anyone's mind about anything, which is a shame
Off-topic: She is crazy pretty. Hope she lands on her feet because I could stand to see her model a bit more. Edit: And because I think her heart was in the right place.
Problem is, she just went in emotionally and phrased it poorly, which isn't likely to change anyone's mind about anything, which is a shame
Off-topic: She is crazy pretty. Hope she lands on her feet because I could stand to see her model a bit more. Edit: And because I think her heart was in the right place.
Race is socialized to an extent, I don't think she would argue that a white baby is born racist but that in the status quo it will eventually grow up in an environment and be taught forms of racism, overtly malicious or not. It's the responsibility of society to prevent that.
On an international level, couldn't this be the case for any first-world society? Is to live one's life with the benefits that a first-world nation while not doing much to help those in impoverished nations also a form of complicity to their troubles?
What did you do wrong or illegal to further institutional oppression?
Subpar Spatula
Banned
"Honestly I don't have energy to talk about the racial violence of white people any more. Yes ALL white people."
Like, she has good intentions but you don't phrase that all white people are racially violent and don't expect a bit of backlash. This isn't even a "she's not saying all white people" because she actually literally says it.
Like, she has good intentions but you don't phrase that all white people are racially violent and don't expect a bit of backlash. This isn't even a "she's not saying all white people" because she actually literally says it.
Aaronrules380
Member
I mean this is definitely true to a large extent, but it ignores that a lot of white people are trying to do something about it. Probably only a relatively small fraction to be honest, but still. I also think that wording is important and she worded her message terribly
Sure, doing nothing makes you complicit, but being white or a beneficiary does not automatically mean you are not fighting the status quo.
It is the case, but issues of race tend to be more immediate since you're less likely to interact with citizens of third-world nations on a daily basis or have direct political influence (i.e. voting) on their lives.
Thanks. I've thought and discussed the concept before especially since people tend to ignore or not really discuss the deaths and issues of countries they're not a part of.
mentallyinept
Banned
That's the rub at this point.
The veil of ignorance has been slowly but surely burned away over time as the spread of information has gotten faster and faster.
To the point where it's really tough to play devil's advocate anymore for people.
The true ignorance of the past has become willful ignorance.
TickleMeElbow
Member
So is everyone else. It's just white people benefit from it the most in the West.
So she said some dumb shit that was obviously going to get her fired, and then walked it back.
I agree the second statement is better. She should have said that instead of the first one and she would probably still have her job.
That said lots of people suddenly "clarify" their statements after they find out those statements are impacting their life negatively.
Yeah I agree but also whiteness is valued more and white people largely get to ignore race as a result. They get to see themselves as the default and everyone else as the deviant.
And_Gignac
Member
She is right but she is wrong. Social constructions shouldn't be individualized.
You forgot the math equation, racism = power + prejudice
Only white people can be racist.
Phrozenflame500
Member
Not that surprising, it's pretty bad PR even if her expanded post tried to make it more reasonable.
Although something tells me the free speech brigade won't be upset about this one for whatever reason.
Although something tells me the free speech brigade won't be upset about this one for whatever reason.
Vicetrailia
Member
Considering her word choice no one will fault the company. But she's bold and courageous, good for her!
Khaos Kontrol
Banned
After reading that post, good.
What did he mean by this?
Member
Agree with what she said. Hope she gets another job
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Original post was not great, but it is no reason to fire her.
Some Yahoo comment section makes you feel like she's right? Nice. So according to her and you I'm racist now. Got you.
She is though.
May I ask why? I'm included in these "all white people", and I'm white by appearence and I'm far from racist.
I agree I like her bold courage, I like it when people shout their opinions from the rooftops so we know whether to take them seriously
Agreed. It was poorly-worded while probably being understandably upset af.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Sounds about right.
Looking at it from another perspective I think you can describe it as being complicit.
If you're not working to change it and aware of white privilege you are keeping it aloft.
Always wise to delete anything possibly controversial when taking an outward facing job.
Looking at it from another perspective I think you can describe it as being complicit.
If you're not working to change it and aware of white privilege you are keeping it aloft.
Always wise to delete anything possibly controversial when taking an outward facing job.
And how do you know whether someone is working to change it? She said all white people.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
That she got fired? Why? It's a pretty benign rant. Sure, the opening is a bit off but the entire thing is sound. Fired? Naw. Maybe allow her to expand upon it before firing?
It's just another incident where a person of color is removed from their job for speaking up. L'Oreal and the likes want to talk the talk but they don't. Diversity to them is hiring a person of color and nothing more because to do more would require effort, time, and a desire to do better.
Considering she's a black transgender woman, I'm not at all surprised by her tone. I can understand her frustration. I doubt she would bear any ill will towards white people who genuinely care about ending oppression, but I've seen similar sentiments held by frustrated members of minority groups who want to vent.
Yeah all white people are socialized to be racist.
That's some bullshit. In America maybe. and even there I wouldn't be sure.
PixelatedBookake
Junior Member
I understand what she meant by her explanation but lol if thinking saying "all white people are racist" would NOT get her fired then lmaooooo
She's drawing a distinction between white people who inherently benefit from privilege and those who acknowledge it.
It's not.
She was upset and prolly meant that way more white folks than just overt racists are responsible. Once again white people are snowflakes about words while PoC are dealing with systemic, life-endangering racist violence.
Have you ever been to America? lol
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Nah, like exactly what I said. We are all socialized to be racist, but those who benefit tend not to interogate that. Who benefit? White people, at least in the West. And they have the hardest time even acknowledging it's existence in many forms.
It's even more blatant with men and sexism. And yet, there are plenty of men who will buy, say, and do sexist things but swear up and down they aren't socialized to be sexist.
And while those who benefit freak out about words, like L'Oreal and a bunch of y'all in this thread
Folks are dying because of racism and sexism.
Daily.
The Last Wizard
Member
If you say all white then a lot of people go "what's white?", "I'm not white, I'm *insert European ethnicity here*". Happened in a few fragility threads iirc.
And right before that she said "Honestly I don't have energy to talk about the racial violence of white people any more. Yes ALL white people".
So which is it?
"Hey she was propbably upset. Once again white people..."
Lmao. Maybe don't contradict yourself. I just realized this thread is about her reaction to Charlottesville, it was edited into the OP. I have experienced lifelong racism as well. Thanks for thinking that because I'm not OK with her wording I didn't. And calling me a snowflake because of it. Smh.
Dongs Macabre
aka Daedalos42
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Hellwarden
Member
It's a shame she was fired, but I can't really blame L'Oreal.
When you're being paid to advertise, you basically have to be apolitical.
It's unfortunate.
When you're being paid to advertise, you basically have to be apolitical.
It's unfortunate.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Not racist as in wear a KKK hood and yell the N word at folks on the street. Simple stuff like how the media portrays black people as thugs (oddly that's what Hollywood does a lot too), so when you think the word "thug" you generally imagine a black person. You're taught a white or race dominant perspective so you don't get a well-rounded view of the world. Every country has this from USA to Japan to Brazil. Folks don't get fearful of a teenager in a hoodie at Subway because they were born with a fear of black Teenagers wearing hoodies, it's fear drip fed over years and generations. This is what they're talking about.
Messofanego
Banned
"We need to talk about why women of colour were and still are discriminated against within the industry, not just see them as a source of revenue."
Truth. This is very two-face of L'Oreal that when she speaks up about racism and the legacy of white supremacy being systemic, they aren't willing to hear out her grievances and makes them out to just see dollar signs from an untapped market.
Truth. This is very two-face of L'Oreal that when she speaks up about racism and the legacy of white supremacy being systemic, they aren't willing to hear out her grievances and makes them out to just see dollar signs from an untapped market.
n00bsauce87
Member
Should have just taken a knee
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