Support NeoGAF

[Piers]

If Nintendo really cares about 3rd parties they'd subsidise these costs

Switch is the machine for indie and Japanese games, but the latest large Western titles aren't going to be on there.
It'll be interesting to see if and how the Switch is effected once RDR2/GTA6 hits the shelves.

But really, games with continuous honking big updates just can't function on the Switch (And Nintendo cap update sizes, iirc) if one single SD card can't manage all of it. I can't see GTA Online working for instance.

 

[hemo memo]

Yeah we've been over this already with this game and others. @ZhugeEx even went into it the other day.

So it's Nintendo's fault and not R*.. what a surprise.

 

[Aostia]

Buy it on Base.com at 33€ or digital

 

[dukie85]

er...how?

20% off physical preorders will put it in line with the other versions..

 

[Asd202]

That's way too much money lost.

That digital/physical parity clause just needs to end. (if it hasnt already)

It will end when retailers will go out of business or will become far less relevant business wise so for it to happen most consumers would need to embrace the digital only future.

 

[faridmon]

Then I'll wait for a price drop. I am going physical but I am not gonna pay full price.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Yeah we've been over this already with this game and others. @ZhugeEx even went into it the other day.

I wonder if anyone could get away with making cheap third-party carts these days like Tengen did with the NES?

 

[NastyBook]

No, you see, it's actually a discount because you're getting two versions of the game: Both a portable and home console version!

lmaooooo

 

[daviyoung]

20% off physical preorders will put it in line with the other versions..

wouldn't the physical PS4 version be even cheaper then?

 

[dukie85]

wouldn't the physical PS4 version be even cheaper then?

Yeah it would. I actually want it on Switch though, even though I could get it for either of the 3.

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

Don't you bring reason into this!

let's just all rage and defend poor nintendo

this is one of the cons of the type of storage nintendo chose

 

[Bowl0l]

NoA will protect the interest of retailers so $50 for the eShop copy.

 

[daviyoung]

Yeah it would. I actually want it on Switch though, even though I could get it for either of the 3.

ah ok then

 

[Plum]

No, you see, it's actually a discount because you're getting two versions of the game: Both a portable and home console version!

Has anyone really said that or are you just pulling that statement from thin air from the fact that, yes, you get both a portable and home console version?

 

[giancarlo123x]

Stupid.

 

[Chû Totoro]

Yeah we've been over this already with this game and others. @ZhugeEx even went into it the other day.

10$ is the extra 60% so for a 50GB Blu-Ray price is 16$ for the manufacturer...
Yeah sure.

26$ for a Switch game cartridge and 16$ for a Blu-Ray. Big lies here, very big lies.

 

[daviyoung]

Has anyone really said that or are you just pulling that statement from thin air from the fact that, yes, you get both a portable and home console version?

I think it's called a joke

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

The 60% increase in cost from that tweet is likely a bullshit, made-up number.

I don't doubt that carts cost more, but I think trying to quantify the actual cost more is ridiculous. There are other factors in how things are priced, including pricing based on what the market will bear. The $10 upcharge is just a convenient round number that publishers know some people will pay, and it covers their additional cost in manufacturing carts instead of discs.

I think you're discounting the idea that Zhuge actually knows what he's talking about, he's a known industry insider.

The cost increase for carts doesn't end with manufacturing, btw.

 

[Lister]

I think the total cost of printing, packaging and shipping a retail disc is around $12. This probably adds another $6 to the cost.

It makes sense, it's one of the reasons PC digital marketplace has always been so attractive. It's Steams 30% cut (or possibly no cut if you're EA or Blizzard or CD Project Red) vs Microsot/ sony's Cut + Retail's cut + Physical manufacturing and shipping costs.

 

[Plum]

I think it's called a joke

Based on what?

 

[Notorious_Roy]

10$ is the extra 60% so for a 50GB Blu-Ray price is 16$ for the manufacturer...
Yeah sure.

26$ for a Switch game cartridge and 16$ for a Blu-Ray. Big lies here, very big lies.

Yup. We're gonna need real numbers if someone makes claims like this.

 

[thefro]

I think the total cost of printing, packaging and shipping a retail disc is around $12. This probably adds another $6 to the cost.

It makes sense, it's one of the reasons PC digital marketplace has always been so attractive. It's Steams 30% cut (or possibly no cut if you're EA or Blizzard or CD Project Red) vs Microsot/ sony's Cut + Retail's cut + Physical manufacturing and shipping costs.

Why isn't it $5-6 more instead of the whole ten bucks then?

I don't doubt it costs more, but the blanket "ten bucks" for everything no matter the size of the cart for some games is pretty ridiculous.

 

[daviyoung]

Based on what?

that it's humorous

 

[Plum]

that it's humorous

I mean, what's the joke based on? That the "portable and home console" defence exists?

 

[Principate]

I think you're discounting the idea that Zhuge actually knows what he's talking about, he's a known industry insider.

The cost increase for carts doesn't end with manufacturing, btw.

Yeah but linking the $10 increase to his quoted 60% is just plain misleading on any level. They're making a substantial mark up on those costs there's no doubt about that.

 

[daviyoung]

I mean, what's the joke based on? That the "portable and home console" defence exists?

that it's not really a discount

 

[goldenpp72]

So many people constantly surprised that flash memory does actually cost more. I love that they come on cards and that I don't have to install them, so it's worth it to me.

 

[jviggy43]

Based on what?

Based on the fact you just literally said what he was making a joke about.

Separate note, this is one of the many reasons why we won't see an influx of 3rd party games on a Nintendo console.

 

[BanjoLayleeYookaKazooie]

that it's humorous

That's an understatement lmao. It was genius and an amazing contribution to the thread. Can't wait to hear more in future 'Nintendo TaxTM' threads.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

If Nintendo really cares about 3rd parties they'd subsidise these costs

I floated this idea in one of the NX speculation threads last year. I knew this was going to become a problem rather early in the system's life.

 

[mieumieu]

Yeah but linking the $10 increase to his quoted 60% is just plain misleading on any level. They're making a substantial mark up on those costs there's no doubt about that.

Zhuge has follow up tweets that explains the situation in deeper detail. The cost he implies are much more than simply card manufacture cost.

 

[phanphare]

well sorry rockstar that's a no go

only game I'll pony up the Switch tax for would be a physical version of Hollow Knight

 

[Plum]

that it's not really a discount

And what's that based on? Who has actually said it was a discount (implying it's worth more than it actually is) instead of just added value? Is Switch not a portable now or what?

Based on the fact you just literally said what he was making a joke about.

Where?

 

[NJShadow]

FYI, ZhugeEX posted a clarification Tweet.

https://twitter.com/ZhugeEX/status/906053345206566912

 

[daviyoung]

And what's that based on? Who has actually said it was a discount (implying it's worth more than it actually is) instead of just added value? Is Switch not a portable now or what?

lol

 

[jviggy43]

Has anyone really said that or are you just pulling that statement from thin air from the fact that, yes, you get both a portable and home console version?

And what's that based on? Who has actually said it was a discount (implying it's worth more than it actually is) instead of just added value? Is Switch not a portable now or what?



Where?

Above. Are the versions of the game different if you're playing on the go vs at home or can you just play it on the go because that's an inherent feature of the system itself and not the game?

lol

This is hilarious.

 

[ngower]

While I understand that time = money, what irks me about the cost of the game is that it's $50 for a remaster. There's no way this game couldn't make money at $40, even if they were eating some of the cost of a cartridge. They at least broke even based on the NPD data that exists for PS360 version, so it seems odd that they're still charging such a high rate so many years later. I suspect, like the Bioshock Collection, it'll fall in price fairly quickly to a ~$30 price range.

 

[Fiendcode]

If what this Daniel Ahmad says is true, the 32gb Cards are much cheaper that I expected.
A 50 GB non-rewritable Blu-Ray costs around 2 Euro, and they probably are quite a bit cheaper if you order huge amounts at once. That would mean the price increase is below 1 Euro, even less if you factor in the smaller cases, which should result in cheaper shipping and storage costs.

Actual Bluray manufacturing costs aren't what Sony and MS charge for bulk replication on their propietary platforms. It's generally $7-9 per unit (disc, manual, case) depending on volumes and retail pricepoint. An 8GB Switch game comes in around $8 for comparison with 32GB being almost twice that.

3DS was comparably expensive too, depending on the rom and flash size it could vary from $7-14 per unit. Despite that games were priced lower than home consoles though.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Has anyone really said that or are you just pulling that statement from thin air from the fact that, yes, you get both a portable and home console version?

There was definitely at least one person using this as a defense of the "Switch tax" shortly after launch. I doubt I'll be able to locate the actual post though. There have been a lot of Switch threads this year lol

 

[bionic77]

let's just all rage and defend poor nintendo

this is one of the cons of the type of storage nintendo chose

It's not that Nintendo was right or wrong that is just the reality of using flash storage. There are some advantages to it as well (faster loads, more durable, etc) but it will never be as cheap as optical media.

It was definitely the right decision for a hybrid though.

 

[KingSnake]

FYI, ZhugeEX posted a clarification Tweet.

https://twitter.com/ZhugeEX/status/906053345206566912

Makes sense. Too bad that he put a stop to the ridiculous math in this thread.

 

[ryushe]

No, you see, it's actually a discount because you're getting two versions of the game: Both a portable and home console version!

I know you're joking, but honestly the Switch tax doesn't bother me too much since it is essentially two versions I'm getting. As long as there isn't price parity between the physical and digital versions, I'm fine.

And before anyone calls me out for being an agent of the Nintendo defense force, I'm not advocating for the "Switch tax", but I honestly don't see it as a huge deal.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

To me it's quite simple: does Nintendo take a bigger cut when developers use larger cartridges or is the increase in price solely due to production costs?

If Nintendo is profiting more from larger game cartridges then it's a problem, if the increase is solely due to productions costs, then there is no problem. Right now it would seem like Nintendo is actually profiting form larger games, which would be problematic to me. Does anyone know?

 

[James Scott]

ZhugeEX says an 8GB card has similar margines to a bluray Though I wonder what that means for certain indie games adding Switch tax.
Unless they're all bigger, of course.

Switch tax does kind of cancel out the added value of a Switch release in a lot of cases which is a bummer. I also can't imagine they cost $10 more

 

[jviggy43]

I know you're joking, but honestly the Switch tax doesn't bother me too much since it is essentially two versions I'm getting. As long as there isn't price parity between the physical and digital versions, I'm fine.

And before anyone calls me out for being an agent of the Nintendo defense force, I'm not advocating for the "Switch tax", but I honestly don't see it as a huge deal.

I guess I'll ask again, is the mobile version different than the console version because if not we should stop saying you're getting two versions when really you're getting the one game that the system allows you to play either docked or on the go.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Yeah but linking the $10 increase to his quoted 60% is just plain misleading on any level. They're making a substantial mark up on those costs there's no doubt about that.

He's simply providing a reason for the cost increase. It's cartridges. It's inescapable fact that it costs devs more to ship games on them. They aren't going to eat the loss, so they pass on the "savings" to consumers. Just like we had to pay more for SNES and N64 AAA games compared to PSOne and Saturn. Only then the price difference was $10-$30; things have actually gotten better.

Whether the actual cost is $4, 5$, $7, or $8, I'm sure they're marketing guys will always round up, and $49.99 is a more common market price than $44.99 or $46.99 anyway.

 

[SporeCrawler]

cartridge prices are higher than optical media news at eleven. i still think cartridges are the way to go for portable gaming

 

[Mithos]

How about we add a "more Advanced HD graphics tax" on PS4/XB1 compared to Switch ofc, and thus we get the same price for all titles again ;P ;P ;P

 

[Robert807]

If Nintendo really cares about 3rd parties they'd subsidise these costs

I second this. Why should we have to pay more because of their stupid decisions.

 

[Plum]

Above. Are the versions of the game different if you're playing on the go vs at home are can you just play it on the go because that's an inherent feature of the system itself and not the game?

Why does it being an inherent feature of the system make it not added value? Are the many PS4/Vita or 3DS/Wii U cross-play titles we've seen not added value because they're the same game? I'm confused as to what your reasoning is here.

There was definitely at least one person using this as a defense of the "Switch tax" shortly after launch. I doubt I'll be able to locate the actual post though. There have been a lot of Switch threads this year lol

Yeah there probably was, I just don't get why one can't use that as a reason for why they might not care as much. Using it as a justification for why the Switch tax exists is misguided though as it's down to the storage media used and not publishers charging more due to the game's portability.