FEW has been loudly advertising that every single line of dialogue in the game is fully voiced, so that I why it comes in so comparatively heavy.
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LA Noire might be $10 more expensive on Switch due to cartridges
- Thread starter Gamezone
- Start date
FEW has been loudly advertising that every single line of dialogue in the game is fully voiced, so that I why it comes in so comparatively heavy.
No thanks. "Optimizing compression" is not the magical process you think it is. I'd rather not go back to when games used to have their prerendered cutscenes so compressed that any advantage they ever had over in-game cutscenes was completely nullified by the murdered image quality coming from compression artifact.
"Optimizing" is what Ubisoft did to Rayman Legends and see how that worked out. The "definitive edition" is anything but definitive and the load times are longer than every version, even Vita.
We don't know if that's actually the reason for Legends longer load times on Switch. DF was guessing at it.
Optimization and compression aren't inherently bad, they just add cost to development.
Rounding up assumed physical card sizes based on (initial) eShop download sizes:
1GB
88 Heroes: 98 Heroes Edition (Rising Star Games)
Axiom Verge: Multiverse Edition (Badland Games)
Cave Story+ (Nicalis/Headup Games)
Penguin Wars (Dispatch Games)
Soldam: Drop, Connect, Erase (Dispatch Games)
Sine Mora EX (THQ Nordic)
The Binding of Issac Afterbirth+ (Nicalis/Headup Games)
Tiny Barbarian DX (Nicalis)
Wonder Boy: The Dragon's Trap (Active Boeki KK)
2GB
1-2 Switch (Nintendo)
Has-Been Heroes (GameTrust)
I am Setsuna (Square Enix)
Puyo Puyo Tetris (Sega)
Super Bomberman R (Konami)
4GB
ARMS (Nintendo)
Azure Striker Gunvolt: Striker Pack (inticreates/Nighthawk Interactive)
Cars 3: Driven to Win (WB Games)
Fate/Extella: The Umbral Star (Marvelous/Xseed Games)
LEGO Worlds (WB Games)
Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle (Ubisoft/Nintendo)
Minna de Waiwai! Spelunker (Square Enix)
Pokkén Tournament DX (Pokémon Co/Nintendo)
Rayman Legends: Definitive Edition (Ubisoft)
RBI Baseball 2017 (Nighthawk Interactive)
Splatoon 2 (Nintendo)
Ultra Street Fighter II: The Final Challengers (Capcom)
8GB
Champion Jockey Special (Koei Tecmo)
Disgaea 5 Complete (Nippon Ichi Soft)
Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2: Nintendo Switch Edition (Bandai Namco)
LEGO City Undercover (WB Games)
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (Nintendo)
Minecraft Story Mode: The Complete Adventure (Telltale Games)
NBA 2K18 (2K Sports) additional download required
Nights of Azure 2: Bride of the New Moon (Koei Tecmo)
Nobunaga's Ambition: Sphere of Influence with Power-Up Kit (Koei Tecmo)
Romance of the Three Kingdoms XIII with Power-Up Kit (Koei Tecmo)
Sonic Forces (Sega)
Super Mario Odyssey (Nintendo)
The LEGO Ninjago Movie: The Video Game (WB Games)
Troll and I (Maximum Games)
Winning Post 8 2017 (Koei Tecmo)
16GB
Dragon Quest X Online: All in One Package (Square Enix) additional download required
FIFA 18 (EA Sports)
Fire Emblem Warriors (Koei Tecmo/Nintendo)
Just Dance 2017 (Ubisoft)
Monster Hunter XX: Nintendo Switch Ver (Capcom)
One Piece Unlimited World Red: Director's Cut (Bandai Namco)
Resident Evil Revelations Collection (Capcom) additional download required
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (Bethesda Softworks)
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Nintendo)
32GB
Dragon Quest Heroes I & II for Nintendo Switch (Square Enix)
I didn't include some games that will get additional content added to the physical releases (Minecraft, Shantae, VOEZ) since we don't know filesizes for that.
1GB
88 Heroes: 98 Heroes Edition (Rising Star Games)
Axiom Verge: Multiverse Edition (Badland Games)
Cave Story+ (Nicalis/Headup Games)
Penguin Wars (Dispatch Games)
Soldam: Drop, Connect, Erase (Dispatch Games)
Sine Mora EX (THQ Nordic)
The Binding of Issac Afterbirth+ (Nicalis/Headup Games)
Tiny Barbarian DX (Nicalis)
Wonder Boy: The Dragon's Trap (Active Boeki KK)
2GB
1-2 Switch (Nintendo)
Has-Been Heroes (GameTrust)
I am Setsuna (Square Enix)
Puyo Puyo Tetris (Sega)
Super Bomberman R (Konami)
4GB
ARMS (Nintendo)
Azure Striker Gunvolt: Striker Pack (inticreates/Nighthawk Interactive)
Cars 3: Driven to Win (WB Games)
Fate/Extella: The Umbral Star (Marvelous/Xseed Games)
LEGO Worlds (WB Games)
Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle (Ubisoft/Nintendo)
Minna de Waiwai! Spelunker (Square Enix)
Pokkén Tournament DX (Pokémon Co/Nintendo)
Rayman Legends: Definitive Edition (Ubisoft)
RBI Baseball 2017 (Nighthawk Interactive)
Splatoon 2 (Nintendo)
Ultra Street Fighter II: The Final Challengers (Capcom)
8GB
Champion Jockey Special (Koei Tecmo)
Disgaea 5 Complete (Nippon Ichi Soft)
Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2: Nintendo Switch Edition (Bandai Namco)
LEGO City Undercover (WB Games)
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (Nintendo)
Minecraft Story Mode: The Complete Adventure (Telltale Games)
NBA 2K18 (2K Sports) additional download required
Nights of Azure 2: Bride of the New Moon (Koei Tecmo)
Nobunaga's Ambition: Sphere of Influence with Power-Up Kit (Koei Tecmo)
Romance of the Three Kingdoms XIII with Power-Up Kit (Koei Tecmo)
Sonic Forces (Sega)
Super Mario Odyssey (Nintendo)
The LEGO Ninjago Movie: The Video Game (WB Games)
Troll and I (Maximum Games)
Winning Post 8 2017 (Koei Tecmo)
16GB
Dragon Quest X Online: All in One Package (Square Enix) additional download required
FIFA 18 (EA Sports)
Fire Emblem Warriors (Koei Tecmo/Nintendo)
Just Dance 2017 (Ubisoft)
Monster Hunter XX: Nintendo Switch Ver (Capcom)
One Piece Unlimited World Red: Director's Cut (Bandai Namco)
Resident Evil Revelations Collection (Capcom) additional download required
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (Bethesda Softworks)
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Nintendo)
32GB
Dragon Quest Heroes I & II for Nintendo Switch (Square Enix)
I didn't include some games that will get additional content added to the physical releases (Minecraft, Shantae, VOEZ) since we don't know filesizes for that.
In the bulk runs theyd be doing. $1.25 or so including sleeve, case, shrink etc etc. it could be closer to a buck on a Zelda or Mario level run.
Flash cards pretty much start in the $3 range at the sizes and speeds theyre using, before packaging and shipping. But thats assuming youre producing and shipping locally. Given that you can Black Friday a 32GB card for $6.99 at retail, that should give you a really good idea of where ithose sit. Either way its 3-5x the cost of a BD.
Nintendo is keen that they have the manufacturing under their control, in Japan once again. So add shipping from Japan, plus a month minimum to get reorders on the shelves unless they air freight it (not happening). Starting to see where those $10 premiums are coming from?
Microsoft and Sony use several plants in the US and Mexico. Most Sony games are run at DADC in Germany for Europe. It enables fast turnaround and restocks, as well as much shorter supply chains.
Gamezone
Gold Member
Thanks. A bit off topic, but is UHD Bluray format much more expensive? I guess that might be a question for next generation.
Well, If I´m not wrong over the 3DS course in the market, the price of its cartridges got eventually cheaper. I hope the same destiny for Switch,
But as right now, its a big drawback for costumers and Nintendo should look for a solution. Maybe they could assume part of these costs at these initial stages? I dunno.
But as right now, its a big drawback for costumers and Nintendo should look for a solution. Maybe they could assume part of these costs at these initial stages? I dunno.
MindCollizion
Member
Especially considering how much of a success the system has been and the late interest of publishers wanting to release big games for the thing. Now Nintendo has to resolve those issues.
Ive never pressed UHD. If its standard dual layer, then not really, not sure what the triple layers run. UHD discs are essentially the same, its jut that the drives are higher precision so they can burncloser to the edge. The first BD50 could only do 45GB reliably in bulk manufacture, so look how far theyve come. Using the newer, better machines they require would be a big part of the additional cost.
No one is shipping game on UHD before anyone asks. Only one console, and less than half of those can read them. Theyll stay with BD as long as X1/PS4 compatibility is an issue. X1 will soon do multiple disc games, I assume Sony might follow suit at some point. Its a DRM issue.
Gamezone
Gold Member
If publishers decides to use Microsoft's intelligent delivery, yes.
Phatosaurus
Member
I think well see mandatory patches for disc based games before well see games on two BDs or on UHD discs.
That or, where applicable, separate downloads for higher resolution textures.
Gamezone
Gold Member
We have already had games shipped on two discs this generation. Batman and Bioshock collection.
Intelligent delivery will also make it easier for developers to not print unnecessary parts onto the disc.
Phatosaurus
Member
I really didnt know that, damn. Colour me surprised.
Gamezone
Gold Member
Why? Wolfenstein (late Xbox 360) was shipped on 4 discs.
Phatosaurus
Member
Didnt think itd be cost effective to ship a game on multiple BDs when online patches exist. Clearly wrong, as games are already shipping on multiple discs.
Gamezone
Gold Member
They released them as two separate games in one box.
Not the same. Those are standalone titles in a box set. The DRM on PS4 and X1 cannot take data from two seperate discs and use it on one game like a PC install. Its comijg to Xbox, no word from Sony. Intelligent delivery is much more abiut cutting download sizes for the bandwidth challenged. Theres already been many games where alternate languages are DLC and such. When you do a physical. You want it to be as complete a package as possible, and while the user may not choose to install the multiplayer, it still needs to be there.
All 4 of those games are run as independent programs under one roof. Mass Effect 2/3, LA Noire, more came on multiple discs. Its why it took so long to get them to work under B/C. You cant do that on the current consoles since s they have to run off the hard disc
Gamezone
Gold Member
Agreed, but multi disc support are added along with intelligent delivery. Anyway, if the game doesn't fit on one disc or cartridge, and you don't want to use more discs, it would make sense to only include one language, or remove multiplayer, and make them chunks you can download.
astroglide
Member
Well it costs more to make a cartridge as opposed to a few penny's for a disk
primasaurus
Member
Apparently its selling very well in the Switch
Andyliini
Member
Source? I bought it myself from Black Friday Sale, but haven't played it yet. If it's selling well, then it's a good sign, and hopefully more games are coming from Rockstar after this.
primasaurus
Member
Did find this UK sales chart, UK not being particularly good for Switch yet LA Noire did particularly well on Switch's small UK install base
https://twitter.com/postabargain/st...io/iframe/twitter.min.html#932550315399876609
It's interesting to see PC doing so poorly with COD and Battlefront, could be the casual gamer factor
Were still in that honeymoon period where people buy anything for their new console, especially if it has a novelty factor to it like first rockstar game on, and its also a game a lot didnt play.
Then they realize how much better the game is on OS4 and X1 for less money, and dont repeat the mistake.
Now that Nintendo is ending their period of deliberate shortages, well see how long it is before the base is satisfied and the novelty wears off
Xenobureido
Banned
I think everybody understands that cartridges are slightly more expensive than discs. However, demanding a whole 10 dollar more is and always has been pure and utter greed. Even taking 5 dollar over the disc-version would be pushing it, but at least it'd be closer to reality.
I'll never buy and 3rd party-games at full price that display this level of disdain towards the people they want to sell their games to.
I'll never buy and 3rd party-games at full price that display this level of disdain towards the people they want to sell their games to.
Well, its representative of their costs. Nintendo still thinks its 1992, which is the root of basically every problem theyve had since thr N64. They follow basic business, control supply to create demand. Because they think theyre a toy company which operates mostly on short term fads, (a toy that remains a best seller for 4 years is extraordinarily rare) they short supplies of consoles and games (and were caught many times in the S/NES days doing so), and make sure Switch will be available on Sunday! Keeps them in the news. Eventually this strategy costs too much money and they behave like an electronics manufacturer thst actually wants to sell product.
By not establishing a manufacturing center on each continent, preferably several in North America (where an east coast center can subsidize Europe), they drive costs up exponentially for publishers. Not to mention the 3-4 weeks on a boat and customs before it even hits a warehouse. Oh, and thr digital versions have to be the same price, or the retailers, where the majority of sales take place, will refuse to carry it. If you think this isnt a factor, check out how GameStop consoles come with physical discs instead of download codes (which is extraordinarily cheaper, not just because of the lack of media, but the cost of shipping consoles to the host country, where a seperate Crew has to insert those physical discs into the box and seal it. Download codes can be printed anywhere, months in advance of the game going gold)
Im sure Nintendo is adding on the same kinds of margins plus some as any other manufacturer. Understand this. The reason why there are no Xbox Limited Run Games is because Microsoft doesnt own thr manufacturing. They plonk their customized machines down in an existing facility like Cinram and pay then rent on them. These facilities capable of million disc runs have minimum orders (50k I believe theyve said). Sony owns DADC, and therefore has enough internal pull to get exceptions made. Nintendo thinks they will once more own 80+% of thr market, and that this power allows them to abuse publishers like this. Guess what, its just not going to fly, especially as they run out of games thst can be easily ported (coming very soon). The sheer expense, long restock times, inability of the stock console to hold more than a few games (rule #1- if everyone doesnt have it, that seriously damages viability, hence the Kinect pack in to make the marketplace Amazon now enjoys with Echo (designed by many of the same people)
I have no specific knowledge of contracts and deals, but Ill wager that as usual, Nintendo approached everyone about publishing their games, and once again chased publishers of M rated games to do the Switch. They likely invested heavily in the LA Noire remaster, which is why the co-branding is so hardcore,and likely helped make it possible. Theyll get a GTAV port because their port 360 to WiiU tools have already been adapted to do Switch. But the online support will be seriously limited. So then theyll be faced with publishers telling them no because they wont sell half the copies at a cost of 3-5x as much. And its a lot more expensive to make these investments in a panic than during the boom period when you can pay them off quickly.
Xenobureido
Banned
I applaud you for the elaborate posting, so please don't take this as a shoot down: I still don't think a 10 dollar upmark is in any way reasonable. If it was 5 dollar, I'd agree with your reasoning. At 10 dollar, all I can grant those 3rd parties is a vocal 'bullshit'.
MP!
Member
Reverse Giraffe
Banned
Guys, we can't release games for Nintendo systems.
Just look at this port of a six-year-old game which costs more money.
Just look at this port of a six-year-old game which costs more money.
Gamezone
Gold Member
By the way, I got my physical copy of LA Noire for XBO today. It looks like the Bluray only contains 3.80 GB on the actual disc, but I had download the remaining 14 GB, just like the Switch version. Seems like a very odd design choice to ship a 6 year old game unplayable on a Bluray. Unlike MS and Sony, Nintendo forces publishers to have a warning on the box.
What a fucking idiot.
Id say, without specific knowledge that it smells like a parity clause with Nintendo, since like I said they almost certainly financed a large portion of the remaster. They cant enforce performance parity, since theres about a 1500%+ performance gap between Switch and an X , but they can match the pain in the ass.
I dont expect theyre going to be keeping the physical in print that long anyway, so I doubt it really bothers them long term, even though it certainly bothers the users.
Gamezone
Gold Member
That's what I was thinking, but it's pretty half assed to only include 3 of 17 GB on a Bluray just because they didn't want to pay for bigger cartridges on the Switch.
cireza
Member
Can't support a sub 30fps port that can't be played without a 14 GB update on a console that has 32 GB space.
I have been disappointed by how Sonic Forces and Doom run on Switch. LA Noire does not seem to fare much better, with a framerate of 30 maximum and frequent drops. Doom is a miracle for the Switch ? Maybe. But that's still not good enough gaming conditions for me. I'd rather play a Quake 3 port, at least this one should run perfectly well.
I hope that Third Parties stop focusing on the "next big game", and put some thinking in what games they have in their portfolio and that can be ported in excellent conditions on the Switch. This means 720p@60fps in handheld mode and 1080p@60fps in docked mode.
Or they can make exclusive games with the hardware in mind from the beginning, of course.
I have been disappointed by how Sonic Forces and Doom run on Switch. LA Noire does not seem to fare much better, with a framerate of 30 maximum and frequent drops. Doom is a miracle for the Switch ? Maybe. But that's still not good enough gaming conditions for me. I'd rather play a Quake 3 port, at least this one should run perfectly well.
I hope that Third Parties stop focusing on the "next big game", and put some thinking in what games they have in their portfolio and that can be ported in excellent conditions on the Switch. This means 720p@60fps in handheld mode and 1080p@60fps in docked mode.
Or they can make exclusive games with the hardware in mind from the beginning, of course.
RPGCrazied
Member
Whats the deal with Amazon? Can't buy any version but imports. But Walmart and Best Buy have it.
John Carmack is brilliant, and ID tech is incredibly scalable. Thats ehy it runs as well as it does on Switch.
Once they run out of 360 ports, (Wolfenstein heavy lifting was done on the first one on 360),theyre going to be in trouble
Non-Nintendo ports and remakes arent going to sell past the honeymoon period on Switch, with exceptions like Minecraft and Rocket League, more importantly th cost of producing those ports without a 360 or PS3 version to source from will be prohibitive. Thats what happened with the Wii. No one bought them, and the huge expense of producing a custom version was prohibitive, no matter how big the installed base was, they only showed up for first party and a handful of titles that appeal to the core Nintendo audience.
InterMusketeer
Member
Yeah, just look at all those Call of Duty ports for Wii. Call of Duty 3, Modern Warfare Reflex, World at War, Black Ops, MW3. No one bought them. That's why they kept making them.
Though I think your scenario is certainly possible, it's too early to call.
cireza
Member
Not interested in ports that play at sub 30fps anyway. I'd rather play nothing lol.
Nintendo paid for them, and performance was far closer. The Switch is essentially Xbox 360 Pro, the Xbox One is almost 4x faster with twice the RAM.
They have to essentially start from scratch to make a Switch version of most AAA games.
Lets put it in perspective. The sum total of Wii Call of Duty sales is 2 million less than Ghosts on 360. Thats all of them, combined. Activision told them to stuff it on WW2 because the cost of porting it far exceeded any sales they expected to get, and the likelyhood of selling season pssses even in amounts to cover the ports is dim. Arkham Origins canned their DLC because if every single person who bought the game bought the season pass, the cost of porting the base game to WiiU might have hit break even. You had to sell half a million copies of a AAA game to make the port on 360 or PS3 (assuming one or the other was the lead platform) last generation, and like I said, these are requiring ground up rebuilds, which is far more costly than a straight port.
Bottom line, on the most extreme examples, the margins were barely there on a console that ended up selling 70 million units (true, half of them were stuck under beds and in closets when bowling got boring), no one is going to take the risks ten years later with costs being exponentially higher until these remakes prove a huge market. Dont hold your breath. This cycle has been repeating for well over a decade. Nintendo is sure this time will be different, pays for ports of games that are popular elsewhere, then scratches their heads as to why they dont sell well for them when they ship highly inferior versions with a slapped on gimmick. People buy Nintendo consoles to play Nintendo games, they dont buy them to play third party. That they almost always have a PlayStation or Xbox or PC
EDIT- The main question the developers have to ask is how many sales they will make by making a Switch version that they otherwise wouldnt make (and some of those could be second copies) with customers buying in Xbox, Pc, or PS4 The answer is: not a lot.
InterMusketeer
Member
Source? Never heard of Nintendo subsidizing the CoD ports.
Why do you guys keep engaging with Bicker2? You're giving him a toilet bowl to spew his diarrheal nonsense into. The dude is full of so much crap. He has no sources. He has no truth. Just a major case of butthurt.
We can tell that you're in pain, buddy. Rupturing hurts, we get it.
Aren't you tired? You don't have to win every war. It's gonna be okay.
We can tell that you're in pain, buddy. Rupturing hurts, we get it.
Aren't you tired? You don't have to win every war. It's gonna be okay.
this "taxes" apply on ps4 and maybe on xbox too ;-)
Gamezone
Gold Member
They should just have included a voucher code i the Switch box, and made it cost the same as the other platforms. If you already have to download a mandatory 14 GB patch, you could easily have downloaded the extra 3 GB they put on the cartridge to make us pay $10 more. The physical media hybrid thing that is going on, especially with the Switch is really bad.
Nintendo does this at the beginning of every generation as I described. Just as they did withLA Noire. Its hardly uncommon for Microsoft and a Sony to so the same, they just dont have to do it eith mainstream AAA titles. Microsoft is almost certainly doing the same thing to get Japanese games onto Xbox right now, providing capital and support to make sure theres versions for their hardware of Japanese indie and niche audience titles that look as if they could sell decent numbers on Xbox. None of this is unusual.
Its completely different.
Youre talking platform royalties, the Nintendo cartridge tax has to do with their direct monopoly of manufacturing, their artificial restrictions on cartridge manufacturing and later console production, as well as their intense profiteering. Because production is in Japan. Instead of shipping it from California. Theyre spending a month on a boat (NBA hitting physical 3 weeks late a primary current example), and incurring all the expenses associated with that. Microsoft and Sony do everything possible to reduce the barriers of physical media, Nintendo does everything possible to make it as expensive as possible. From refusing to use parts they themselves do not supply (they claimed they were inferior, third party QC disagrees). Microsoft and Sony only limit production by available capacity on the lines
All platform holders charge royalties, its how they make their money. Typically thats $7/30% physical/digital. A retail $60 game usually sees less than 50% of the purchase price back into the coffers of the publisher in question (store margin-30-35%, $7 royalty, manufacturing/shipping $3-5). Back in the NES days it was abiut $10 a cartridge just for the latter. Some of the giant end of life SNES/Genesis carts (Super Street Fighter, Phantasy Star 4)approached $20 due to large sizes. And that was in 1990s dollars. Bottom line, Nintendo chose, correctly for their design goals, the most expensive medium possible and then go about making it the most expensive way possible. There are plenty of existing facilities they could dump Switch copying machines into that already handle bulk preprogrammed memory card orders for a variety of promotional and commercial projects they choose not to.